Considering repeating Year 12... Thoughts?

[blitz89]

I am aware that this is a tired subject on this forum, but please hear me out.

Along with the disruptions to the normal school year due to Covid, my father had also died in March. His death had been very sudden- cancer. I tried my best to pull myself together but many days were simply passed staring at the wall.
I was losing motivation and concentration, and it only got worse after the second lockdown.

Then came August, and I thought I was beginning to do better mentally. But my health started to decline- just exercising for a half-hour was enough to make my head feel like it was about to combust, and I was in a constant state of lethargy and found it hard to concentrate for extended periods of time. I went to the GP, but he initially told me that it was likely due to the stress of VCE and my father’s death.
So it wasn’t until September (after I fainted during a bike ride) that I took a blood test, and the results indicated that I had severe iron deficiency anaemia. In all honesty, the condition itself wasn’t too bad (I couldn’t feel much anyways) but I did have to commit to regular visits to my doctor and the pathologist for injections and tests- visits that still continue now.

While school had only been in session for hardly two months prior to his death, I’d ranked first for all the SACs that we’d completed during that time. I was also the Highest Achiever in Year 11 and am a full-ride scholarship student at a private school- as such, although my school had been very accomodating this year given my circumstances, I am also aware that they probably had high hopes for me, as I had for myself. I don’t care that much about what my school thinks, but I‘ve severely disappointed myself this year. I know what I’m capable of, and this year, though through no fault of my own, I’ve failed myself. It’s a bitter feeling.

My initial results this year were fine by me; I was proud of them. But I am not proud of how I’d done for just about everything afterwards, and I know that I essentially flunked my exams. I know that VCE isn’t ‘everything’, but academia means a lot to me, especially now that I will probably need to support my mum in the future. I want her to retire early and so a good degree- a safe future- is my best bet.

I am now predicting an 80 ATAR (and only because the 3/4 subjects I did last year will carry the bulk of my aggregate) which isn’t bad by means, but far below the 93.00 I’d need for Commerce at Melb. More worryingly still, I might not even get a SS of above 25 in Methods. After March I’d hardly study at all and would teach myself everything the night before the Sac (I did the same for most all my subjects, but the difference being with the english and humanities subjects is that I had a good foundation in writing already as opposed to just... the problem solving skills you need to constantly practice for the maths and sciences).
I know SEAs and Access Melbourne may give me the adjusted selection rank that I’d need, but prereqs are non-negotiable.

At this point I’d need a miracle to pull a 93, but I don’t believe in miracles. I didn’t perform to that standard and there’s nothing I can do about that now except look to the future. So I am now wondering if I should repeat Year 12. I know almost everyone who repeats would say the same thing, but I am confident that I can do better a second time around; I am feeling better already both in terms of my health and mentally, so am fit to endure another year. Plus, given all I didn’t do this year, I’m hardly burned out at all.
I am also 17, the youngest in my 2020 class, and also younger than a handful of the 2021 cohort. So there’s no issue there.

However I’d also like to hear different opinions because I’m sure there are many other points of consideration that I’ve left out.

Thank you for reading and I’m sorry if this post was too long or if I posted it in the wrong section. Please have a good day. 

[brenden]

I am aware that this is a tired subject on this forum, but please hear me out.

Along with the disruptions to the normal school year due to Covid, my father has also died in March. His death had been very sudden- cancer. I tried my best to pull myself together but many days were simply passed staring at the wall.
I was losing motivation and concentration, and it only got worse after the second lockdown.

Then came August, and I thought I was beginning to do better mentally. But my health started to decline- just exercising for a half-hour was enough to make my head feel like it was about to combust, and I was in a constant state of lethargy. I went to the doctor’s, but he initially told me that it was likely due to the stress of VCE and my father’s death.
So it wasn’t until September (after I fainted on a bike ride) that I took a blood test, and the results indicated that I had severe iron deficiency anaemia. In all honesty, the condition wasn’t too bad (I didn’t feel much anyways) but I did have to commit to regular visits to my doctor and the pathologist- visits that still continue now.

While school had only been in session for hardly two months prior to his death, I’d ranked first for all the SACs that we’d completed during that time. I had also been the Highest Achiever in Year 11 and am a full-ride scholarship student in a private school- as such, although my school had been very accomodating this year given my circumstances, I am also aware that they probably had high hopes for me, as I had for myself. I don’t care too much about what my school thinks, but I‘ve severely disappointed myself this year. I know what I’m capable of, and this year, though through no fault of my own, I failed myself. It’s a bitter feeling.

My initial results this year were fine by me; I was proud of them. But I am not proud of how I’d done for just about everything afterwards, and I know that I essentially flunked my exams. I know that VCE isn’t ‘everything’, but academia means a lot to me, especially now that I will probably need to support my mum in the future. I want her to retire early and so a good degree- a safe future- is my best bet.

I am now predicting an 80 ATAR (and only because the 3/4 subjects I did last year will carry the bulk of my aggregate) which isn’t bad by means, but far below the 93 I’d need for Commerce at Melb. More worryingly still, I might not even get a SS of above 25 in Methods. After March I’d hardly studied at all and would teach myself everything the nights before the Sacs (I did the same for most all my subjects, but the difference being with the english and humanities subjects is that I have a good foundation in writing already as opposed to just... the problem solving skills you need to constantly practice for the maths and sciences).
I know SEAs and Access Melbourne may give me the adjusted selection rank that I’d need, but prereqs are non-negotiable.

At this point I’d need a miracle to pull a 93.00, but I don’t believe in miracles. I didn’t perform to that standard and there’s virtually nothing I can do about that now except look to the future. So I am now wondering if I should repeat Year 12. I know almost everyone who repeats would say the same thing, but I am confident that I can do better a second time around; I am feeling better already both in terms of my health and mentally, so am fit to endure another year. Plus, given all I didn’t do this year, I’m hardly burned out at all.
I am also 17, the youngest in the 2020 class, and also younger than a handful of the 2021 cohort. So there’s no issue there.

However I’d also like to hear different opinions because I’m sure there are many other points of consideration that I’ve left out.

Thank you for reading and I’m sorry if this post was too long or if I posted it in the wrong section. Please have a good day. 

Hey Blitz,

Firstly - wow. That's a really hard year on you. You must be incredibly resilient. Well done, and I'm sorry to hear of your pain.

Is there a chance that the answer to your question comes on December 30? Would it be at all possible to make that choice once receiving your results?

Further... I think if you get an 80, you'd get accepted into a lot of good courses at Monash/Melb, where you'd be able to study the maths you'd need to qualify for commerce and transfer over. Perhaps that would be a more efficient use of your time than repeating Year 12 and delaying the start of uni?

Honestly, I wouldn't think you were silly if you did repeat. I think on a pragmatic level - there are options that perhaps make more "sense". But I understand the feeling of wanting to have the experience you were meant to have.

I suppose it depends on why you want to repeat. Repeating to get into Commerce... there are easier ways into commerce.
Repeating to make yourself feel better... there may be easier ways to make yourself feel better, too!

Regardless of what you get, you should be so proud of yourself. Sounds like a fucked up year. But you're still in a position where you're thinking about how to make your life better - which you'll do, for you and for your mum.

Uni is also academia. You can redeem yourself there, if you feel like redemption's what you need. You could also do that at school - I know no one would bat an eye after hearing your thoughts on the matter, if that's what you chose to do.

Either way, I'm wishing you the best of luck...... - good luck!

[blitz89]

Hey Blitz,

Firstly - wow. That's a really hard year on you. You must be incredibly resilient. Well done, and I'm sorry to hear of your pain.

Is there a chance that the answer to your question comes on December 30? Would it be at all possible to make that choice once receiving your results?

Further... I think if you get an 80, you'd get accepted into a lot of good courses at Monash/Melb, where you'd be able to study the maths you'd need to qualify for commerce and transfer over. Perhaps that would be a more efficient use of your time than repeating Year 12 and delaying the start of uni?

Honestly, I wouldn't think you were silly if you did repeat. I think on a pragmatic level - there are options that perhaps make more "sense". But I understand the feeling of wanting to have the experience you were meant to have.

I suppose it depends on why you want to repeat. Repeating to get into Commerce... there are easier ways into commerce.
Repeating to make yourself feel better... there may be easier ways to make yourself feel better, too!

Regardless of what you get, you should be so proud of yourself. Sounds like a fucked up year. But you're still in a position where you're thinking about how to make your life better - which you'll do, for you and for your mum.

Uni is also academia. You can redeem yourself there, if you feel like redemption's what you need. You could also do that at school - I know no one would bat an eye after hearing your thoughts on the matter, if that's what you chose to do.

Either way, I'm wishing you the best of luck...... - good luck!

Upon looking at my dreaded internal marks again, I’ve realised... that I ended the year still hovering around the top for half my subjects and at the average for the other two (methods and spesh) in a strong cohort. And I’ve also realised that I just need a SS sum of 64~ between two of my best subjects this year + the 10% from the other two in order to get an Atar of 88 due to my 2019 results.

This is embarrassing and I’m so sorry I was so dramatic earlier about my Enter score. 
Thinking too much typically puts my mind in gloomy places decorated with shades of pessimism, and 7pm onwards is unfortunately prime overthinking time for me; it made me completely overlook that Atar, at the 80-85 range, is a lot less competitive than it is at the 90-95 percentiles; similarly, I think i’d also forgotten that not getting a 45+ SS =/= <25 SS instead... my mind really just skipped over the entire 30s range and went straight to the worst possible scenario.

Upon even further reflection, I have also concluded that I disliked school enough as it was this year, and that I’d only hate it even more if I were to repeat it with an entirely new set of people.

And you’re right- a year at Uni, even in a course that I might not have necessarily put as my first preference- is a lot more beneficial and efficient than repeating Y12 again. I think it’s best for me to look at the logical choices, and that’s definitely to go to uni. Always move forward, never look back. I can’t force myself to move on internally, but I do think the transition and gradual acceptance would be a lot easier if I were to change my external environment. A new chapter.
Also thank you for mentioning the possibility of transfer and the existence of bridging courses if needed (again, something else I’d conveniently forgotten while I’d been doing all that thinking about all those other things that I’ve since decided were all bad ideas).

Again, thank you for your response. It was something I needed to read and it helped maybe a lot more than you realised. Thank you for everything.

[brenden]

Good luck!! I hope things turn out really well for you

[Orb]

Just wanted to quickly add my 2c here - and really sorry for your loss Blitz, this really should never have to happen to anyone, let alone with this timing and everything that's going on.

If you're studying commerce at Melbourne, some employers (especially the top-tier ones) do actually ask you for your ATAR so it's worth re-evaluating what you think the expected outcome for you is going to be if you did repeat Year 12. Just putting it into context, I haven't seen a top-tier firm in my industry take anyone with less than a 97 ATAR off the top of my head (in the last 5-10 years at the very least). Of course, life is far more than joining top-tier firms with all the allure and prestige that they seem to encapsulate, but it is some context that is worth at least giving a few seconds to think about! If you don't want to consider these firms, then I think pretty much every other firm (~90%+ of firms) don't actually care at all about your ATAR - in fact they usually don't even need you to write it on your CV.

Usually i'd strongly advise against repeating Year 12 but I think your case is very unique and there's a lot of untapped potential worth re-exploring. I studied a BCom at UniMelb myself and know the course + career pathways quite well so if you have any specific questions please do feel free to reach out  

Another note is that you're only 17! That is plenty of time and I'd actually recommend taking a bit more time to mature up (so repeating Year 12 is potentially a better idea given this).

[blitz89]

Just wanted to quickly add my 2c here - and really sorry for your loss Blitz, this really should never have to happen to anyone, let alone with this timing and everything that's going on.

If you're studying commerce at Melbourne, some employers (especially the top-tier ones) do actually ask you for your ATAR so it's worth re-evaluating what you think the expected outcome for you is going to be if you did repeat Year 12. Just putting it into context, I haven't seen a top-tier firm in my industry take anyone with less than a 97 ATAR off the top of my head (in the last 5-10 years at the very least). Of course, life is far more than joining top-tier firms with all the allure and prestige that they seem to encapsulate, but it is some context that is worth at least giving a few seconds to think about! If you don't want to consider these firms, then I think pretty much every other firm (~90%+ of firms) don't actually care at all about your ATAR - in fact they usually don't even need you to write it on your CV.

Usually i'd strongly advise against repeating Year 12 but I think your case is very unique and there's a lot of untapped potential worth re-exploring. I studied a BCom at UniMelb myself and know the course + career pathways quite well so if you have any specific questions please do feel free to reach out  

Another note is that you're only 17! That is plenty of time and I'd actually recommend taking a bit more time to mature up (so repeating Year 12 is potentially a better idea given this).

Hi Orb, thanks for giving your insight!
As for the expected outcome if I do repeat... before everything had happened this year, I did think that I was in a good position for a relatively high Atar because I’d done Chem and Legal in Y11 and gotten a SS of 45+ in both of them, as well as having obtained the invaluable experience of how VCE works and the study habits I’d need to better. And considering I’d only had 4 subjects this year, I’d thought it wouldn’t be overly difficult to do well in them and thus obtain a nice overall aggregate.

If I were to repeat, would those employers take into account that I did VCE twice? I’d imagine there might be some stigma but obviously I wouldn’t know myself.
I was really considering Law last year but was hesitant because of how competitive I’d heard the job market can be- one of my school’s benefactors then told me that he’d be willing to extend me a job straight out of a law degree if I ‘continued on this trajectory’ (he had also taken it for granted that I’d get that said law degree at Melbourne, because we had this conversation the day after I was confirmed as my school’s 2020 KLD Scholar), but I have not, actually, continued on that trajectory so I guess I’m now wondering if I should re-evaluate things with that in mind.

I have another question, if I were to enrol in B.Arts at Melb and try to transfer to Commerce after a year, I’d have to meet all the ‘entry requirements’ of the new course. Would that include the Atar too, or just the prereqs and and a high enough (like >75) WAM?

Also, what did you major in for Commerce, how did you find it, and did you continue on to a graduate pathway like Law or go into the Melbourne Business School (and if so, how did you find it? Just anything you can think of or believe is worth mentioning, I’m just very curious)

And yeah haha I do still feel very young, even after I was forced to kind of ‘grow up’ a little faster after my father’s death. So that’s definitely worth considering, thank you.

[Orb]

1. If you got a 45+ raw S.S in both your Year 11 subjects and you're expecting that you won't get >90 ATAR then I really do think you haven't realised your ATAR potential because to me that's a clear 99+ ATAR trajectory in Year 12 if everything goes smoothly. The more I'm hearing about this situation the more I'm seeing the case to repeat because this is clearly an unprecedented year, especially for you.

One benefit of repeating is you get the time to mature + also explore other interests (you won't have to spend "all" your time studying so there's potential in getting work experience, or doing extracurriculars - all of which is huge when you get into university and in particular if you want to study BCom).

2. Employers wouldn't look to see if you've done VCE twice - on your CV it should not be evident and no one looks that closely to actually analyse whether you've done that - the max they'll ever ask is what did you get for your ATAR (and that's a minority of firms)

3. You need a high WAM to transfer courses but you honestly should be aiming for a high WAM anyway.

4. I went straight into employment (at 21) after graduation and looking back in hindsight I probably should've taken some more time off because there's definitely a maturity gap between and you and your colleagues in the same role (most of whom were ~24 or older when they started). I'll probably do a graduate course later on (likely business school)

5. Even if the benefactor extends a role i'd hazard a guess you could probably do much better than that role (just my guess) if you went through university normally! Law is incredibly competitive and really if you're not in the top 50% of your class you probably won't be getting a job as a lawyer, at least in the current climate.

You had an amazing trajectory before a catastrophic event that probably eclipses 95%+ of what VCE students would ever have to struggle through in magnitude and I can see a very bright future for you regardless of what you pick!

[blitz89]

1. If you got a 45+ raw S.S in both your Year 11 subjects and you're expecting that you won't get >90 ATAR then I really do think you haven't realised your ATAR potential because to me that's a clear 99+ ATAR trajectory in Year 12 if everything goes smoothly. The more I'm hearing about this situation the more I'm seeing the case to repeat because this is clearly an unprecedented year, especially for you.

One benefit of repeating is you get the time to mature + also explore other interests (you won't have to spend "all" your time studying so there's potential in getting work experience, or doing extracurriculars - all of which is huge when you get into university and in particular if you want to study BCom).

2. Employers wouldn't look to see if you've done VCE twice - on your CV it should not be evident and no one looks that closely to actually analyse whether you've done that - the max they'll ever ask is what did you get for your ATAR (and that's a minority of firms)

3. You need a high WAM to transfer courses but you honestly should be aiming for a high WAM anyway.

4. I went straight into employment (at 21) after graduation and looking back in hindsight I probably should've taken some more time off because there's definitely a maturity gap between and you and your colleagues in the same role (most of whom were ~24 or older when they started). I'll probably do a graduate course later on (likely business school)

5. Even if the benefactor extends a role i'd hazard a guess you could probably do much better than that role (just my guess) if you went through university normally! Law is incredibly competitive and really if you're not in the top 50% of your class you probably won't be getting a job as a lawyer, at least in the current climate.

You had an amazing trajectory before a catastrophic event that probably eclipses 95%+ of what VCE students would ever have to struggle through in magnitude and I can see a very bright future for you regardless of what you pick!

Aw sorry that was so much, thanks for taking the time to respond!
My mind’s still a little addled but I think I’ve a clearer idea of what I want my future to look like and what I should do to get there.
Thanks for everything.