Uni Scam Degrees

[The Special One]

Courses like Engineering, Medicine
Have excellent job prospects  but those are not the science degrees I'm talking about. I mean two specifically very popular ones the bachelor of science and the bachelor of biomed


 I'm sure this information may suprise many of you as it's swept under the rug unless students go out of their way to research it for themselves. But going by information from grad stats as well as numerous other statistics. it's evident that a bachelor of science is awful for jobs.  Not just awful but the lowest across the board, much lower than Arts.

The vast majority of science graduates have found work unrelated to any science fields they studied. Moreover the vast majority of science grads go back to commence further study in the hopes of landing a job.

Biomed is another popular degree, some have the misconception it will lead to medicine. And the answer is not really, at least not more so than any other degree. You will need to average High distinctions at uni across the board for 3 or 4 years to even be considered for an interview this  average score is called a WAM and is used for entry to uni courses.

The WAM  for Med is really high. 80+ and you would still need to sit a GAMSAT And get in the highest percentile to be accepted into med anywhere. It must be noted Monash is one of the few unis to use a WAM requirement and the majority use GPA instead. I'm not familiar with this selection process so if a biomed degree has more incentives for a GPA based selection criteria please let me know.

Now if your heart is set on graduate entry med no worries you can do it. But I recommend a backup course like optometry or something like accounting in case you  don't make it,  have a good backup. Because like a bachelor of science bio med has dreadful job prospects if you want to work in a field related to science, used to be better but research has been dead in Australia for a while.

I'm going to diverge a bit and throw my 2 cents on a bachelor of pharmacy, I'd encourage you all read posts about current pharmacies and the work conditions as well as low salary which can't even  keep up with inflation. While job prospects are good the career outlooks aren't good at all.

 I've never done pharmacy so I won't get into the details but I'd encourage everyone to do research and get your voices heard.
 Only way change will happen to make it a viable course again would be if people speak out.

I don't know how to put endnote last and footnotes on here yet, so i am just going to leave a link to all my sources below.

http://www.graduatecareers.com.au/research/researchreports/gradstats/

https://theconversation.com/amp/graduating-into-a-weak-job-market-why-so-many-grads-cant-find-work-45222

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/a-bubble-about-to-burst-why-we-dont-need-more-maths-and-science-graduates-15007

https://grattan.edu.au/the-number-of-science-graduates-are-growing-but-the-jobs-are-not/

[Sine]

Nearly all unis use GPA not WAM for medicine.

[The Special One]

Nearly all unis use GPA not WAM for medicine.

https://www.monash.edu/medicine/som/grad-entry

'The clearly in WAM for interview for 2017 entry (for the 25 places) was 81.39. The clearly in AM for interview for 2018 entry via the Biomedical Science pathway was 79.89.'

[Sine]

https://www.monash.edu/medicine/som/grad-entry

'The clearly in WAM for interview for 2017 entry (for the 25 places) was 81.39. The clearly in AM for interview for 2018 entry via the Biomedical Science pathway was 79.89.'

yup that's the exception hence the use of the word "nearly" basically everything else is GPA.

[The Special One]

yup that's the exception hence the use of the word "nearly" basically everything else is GPA.

Ah I see, I'm only really familiar with Monash uni so thank you for the  correction.

[The Special One]

yup that's the exception hence the use of the word "nearly" basically everything else is GPA.

Although to be fair as Monash is the most popular uni in Victoria and the only Victorian uni to offer both direct and grad med is it fair to assume it's the most popular choice for med?

I don't have the stats so this is all conjecture but I think it would be.

Then maybe the  WAM info applies for a wider audience than if I said GPA instead. However I'll still edit the post with your additional information

[The Special One]

I get the title is a bit extreme but with rising costs and lowered government funding if we are not getting value for money with our degrees which are a significant investment I will use the term scam that's just my personal justification for it. Take it for face value and not too literally

[sweetcheeks]

Although to be fair as Monash is the most popular uni in Victoria and the only Victorian uni to offer both direct and grad med is it fair to assume it's the most popular choice for med?

I don't have the stats so this is all conjecture but I think it would be.

Then maybe the  WAM info applies for a wider audience than if I said GPA instead. However I'll still edit the post with your additional information

Monash don't take students for graduate medicine from other universities, thats why they use a WAM rather than GPA. GPA is used for all other universities.

[The Special One]

Monash don't take students for graduate medicine from other universities, thats why they use a WAM rather than GPA. GPA is used for all other universities.

Ah yes I see due to the extremely competitive nature of med I thought all unis were like this when it comes to med, thanks for clarifying.

[Bri MT]

I get the title is a bit extreme but with rising costs and lowered government funding if we are not getting value for money with our degrees which are a significant investment I will use the term scam that's just my personal justification for it. Take it for face value and not too literally

Hey, just a friendly note that on ATARnotes we tend to avoid double posting.  In this case you could either 1) edit your immediately prior response in which you were responding to Sine  2) edit your original post ( add "edit: [what you've said in this new post]" to the bottom of that post).  Even though it's a minor change, things like this make it easier for people to read your post and enhance the fluency of the discussion.

As a side note if, in future, you feel that a post you're making is extreme and will encounter heated debate consider placing it in the "Rants and Debates" section of the forum.

[The Special One]

Hey, just a friendly note that on ATARnotes we tend to avoid double posting.  In this case you could either 1) edit your immediately prior response in which you were responding to Sine  2) edit your original post ( add "edit: [what you've said in this new post]" to the bottom of that post).  Even though it's a minor change, things like this make it easier for people to read your post and enhance the fluency of the discussion.

As a side note if, in future, you feel that a post you're making is extreme and will encounter heated debate consider placing it in the "Rants and Debates" section of the forum.

Thanks for the informative and friendly run down of things ill be sure to keep it in mind for future posts.

I don't think this post is extreme I think the title was exaggerated but I think the stats support  what I'm saying and it's factually correct that science grads have the lowest career prospects out of any career path.

If it came across like ranting I apologise, I hope it's not a rant as I've supplied evidence I support my points.

 I do feel strongly about this as many of my friends are doing a bachelor of science or biomed timing it leads them into a doctorate of medicine straight away or at least a researcher. And I'm hoping this may spur people to do their own research about what a bachelor of  science  and biomed entails.

[Lear]

Just out of curiosity, what are some courses that are considered good to do after biomed and commerce that are not medicine and law respectively. I often hear that doing something like biomed is only worth if there’s a plan to do medicine next, however what are the job prospects like in fields such as pharmacy, optometry and research for post biomedicine. And banking for commerce.

I was considering law but upon research I found that it really isn’t the career I was hoping it to be and am really tossing up if going all the way for medicine is worth it.

[Bri MT]

Thanks for the informative and friendly run down of things ill be sure to keep it in mind for future posts.

I don't think this post is extreme I think the title was exaggerated but I think the stats support  what I'm saying and it's factually correct that science grads have the lowest career prospects out of any career path.

If it came across like ranting I apologise, I hope it's not a rant as I've supplied evidence I support my points.

 I do feel strongly about this as many of my friends are doing a bachelor of science or biomed timing it leads them into a doctorate of medicine straight away or at least a researcher. And I'm hoping this may spur people to do their own research about what a bachelor of  science  and biomed entails.

nah,  I wasn't trying to imply that you were ranting or being extreme - I just thought I'd mention it given this quote:

I get the title is a bit extreme

thanks for being receptive to my feedback If you want more information about the forums or how to do things on it feel free to check out this part of the forum.


So, to clarify, is your main concern in relation to people using it as a med pathway or the courses in general?
 

[The Special One]

Just out of curiosity, what are some courses that are considered good to do after biomed and commerce that are not medicine and law respectively. I often hear that doing something like biomed is only worth if there’s a plan to do medicine next, however what are the job prospects like in fields such as pharmacy, optometry and research for post biomedicine. And banking for commerce.

I was considering law but upon research I found that it really isn’t the career I was hoping it to be and am really tossing up if going all the way for medicine is worth it.

Banking for commerce and optometry are your best bets for jobs. Great pay and job prospects.

That gradstats link I gave in the bottom of my main poet has some interesting stats that you may want to look at.

I'm doing Law right now myself and had Commerce before dropping it and you can use a law degree for fovenmrent administration jobs too plenty of work if that's your thing.

I wouldn't recommend pharmacy as wages have stagnated drastically and are not keeping up with inflation.

Research is unfortunately essentially dead in Australia.

nah,  I wasn't trying to imply that you were ranting or being extreme - I just thought I'd mention it given this quote:
thanks for being receptive to my feedback If you want more information about the forums or how to do things on it feel free to check out this part of the forum.


So, to clarify, is your main concern in relation to people using it as a med pathway or the courses in general?

My main concern is in general. As you can use any degree as a med pathway something not many people kmow  about and think that bio med is a pre req to graduate med entry.

I can see my points aren't that clear my contention is all over the place  and the title isn't accurate to the content. But it's difficult getting across all this info and finding a suitable generalistic title. If you want to change anything about my post title  no problem at all.

The reasoning for the post is mainly I just think the market is negative right now and with rising fees a bachelor of science according to the stats  isn't a good investment for a stable secure career like engineering is.

This isn't true any degree can be used provided GAMSAT requirements are met,  and going by the stats I posted biomed and a bachelor of science and great degrees for jobs and most are working in a field unrelated to what they studied.

I suppose I am encouraging people who want to do med to do another degree which is a good backup in case hey isn't make it so they are secured financially.

To average a HD in a course like biomed isn't easy and if people can't do it no decent fallback option with just that degree.

Mod edit (J41): Posts merged.

[Quantum44]

I think your title is a bit extreme but the sentiment is correct. Given the popularity of doing medicine and the common misconception that biomed or science is the best pathway to graduate entry medicine, there are far too many graduates who miss out on medicine and compete for the very few medical research places, generally requiring a PhD and having very little job security due to short contracts.

I don’t have any hard stats but I’d be surprised if any more than 20% of the Melbourne biomed cohort went on to the Melbourne MD program.