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April 27, 2024, 07:35:10 am

Author Topic: ATAR/Scaling Questions  (Read 143724 times)  Share 

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jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #105 on: August 11, 2017, 08:55:00 am »
+3
If not for this scaling BS students taking subjects with easier workload end up with higher ATAR, would you think that's a better outcome for all?

Without speaking for her, I don't think Claudia was saying the idea of scaling is bogus, scaling is absolutely a necessary (but perhaps imperfect in some ways) thing in attempting to equalise the workload and difficulty of different subject choices. Nothing could do it perfectly, the current system does it relatively fairly imo. What I think Claudia was saying though was that the idea of picking high scaling subjects purely for success is bogus. You will almost certainly do far better choosing subjects you have an interest in and are at least somewhat passionate about. And this I certainly agree with!

While it happens, scaling shouldn't determine your course choices, at least not over more tangible benefits like furthering your knowledge for tertiary study. I get it being a consideration, it would be silly not to consider it, but the fact that it plays such a large role in subject decisions for many people is evidence of the dangerous trend of the HSC being more about the end game and the final number than about the actual process of education and enrichment, which subtracts from the value of doing it in the first place. It's what leads to some teachers telling students to rote learn the 20/20 essays that are handed to them instead of actually learning how to argue a point, or to regurgitating a method in Maths without actually understanding the concepts behind it :P

#rant

Wales

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #106 on: August 12, 2017, 10:54:17 am »
+3
Without speaking for her, I don't think Claudia was saying the idea of scaling is bogus, scaling is absolutely a necessary (but perhaps imperfect in some ways) thing in attempting to equalise the workload and difficulty of different subject choices. Nothing could do it perfectly, the current system does it relatively fairly imo. What I think Claudia was saying though was that the idea of picking high scaling subjects purely for success is bogus. You will almost certainly do far better choosing subjects you have an interest in and are at least somewhat passionate about. And this I certainly agree with!

While it happens, scaling shouldn't determine your course choices, at least not over more tangible benefits like furthering your knowledge for tertiary study. I get it being a consideration, it would be silly not to consider it, but the fact that it plays such a large role in subject decisions for many people is evidence of the dangerous trend of the HSC being more about the end game and the final number than about the actual process of education and enrichment, which subtracts from the value of doing it in the first place. It's what leads to some teachers telling students to rote learn the 20/20 essays that are handed to them instead of actually learning how to argue a point, or to regurgitating a method in Maths without actually understanding the concepts behind it :P

#rant

Completely agree. I have a friend in a top selective school who chose her subjects purely based on scaling. ( 3u/3u Chem Eco) and she's hating it. Her teacher gives her sample exemplar's and gets told to memorise it for the exams. Rumour also has it the teacher gets paid based on the number of Band 6's her classes get. People constantly are caught up in what subjects to do for scaling or future benefits as opposed to what they enjoy. It's killing the education system essentially.

Anyway, my point is that don't choose your subjects based on scaling entirely. I'm loving legal atm while she's hating eco and it's likely that my legal mark will outscale her eco because she cannot bring herself to do the work.

/endrant
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beatroot

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #107 on: August 18, 2017, 08:13:02 pm »
0
Do non-ATAR students affect the scaling for ATAR subjects? If they performed badly during the HSC, would this drag this class down? Or would they not be counted?
Which will hold greater rule over you? Your fear or your curiosity?

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jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #108 on: August 18, 2017, 09:22:01 pm »
+3

Do non-ATAR students affect the scaling for ATAR subjects? If they performed badly during the HSC, would this drag this class down? Or would they not be counted?

Hey! My answer would be that they do, but that's only because I've never read anything suggesting otherwise - Whether you are qualifying for an ATAR or not the system would treat you the same I believe! Note that one or two poor performers aren't going to impact a class full of otherwise hard workers in any significant way though!

hazzaizmine

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #109 on: August 22, 2017, 08:11:20 pm »
0
I am actually really worried for two of my subjects chemistry and English, my ranks are bad and I am not sure if they actually matter or not. Another thing is if your rank is like 6/10 for a subject but you score a raw mark of 90 and above in the HSC does that mark go to the person who is coming first. If so how is that even fair? :-\
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 08:13:43 pm by hazzaizmine »

Natasha.97

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #110 on: August 22, 2017, 08:37:49 pm »
+6
I am actually really worried for two of my subjects chemistry and English, my ranks are bad and I am not sure if they actually matter or not. Another thing is if your rank is like 6/10 for a subject but you score a raw mark of 90 and above in the HSC does that mark go to the person who is coming first. If so how is that even fair? :-\

Hi!
From my understanding, a raw mark of 90+ does get given to the first person (if that was the highest), but it gets averaged out with their own mark :)
The "mark-stealing" thing is NESA's way of awarding people who work consistently throughout the year

Hope this helps :)

Edit: If your cohort does well as a group, ranks don't really matter :) Here (under moderation)is a link if you want to get specific details!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 08:41:21 pm by 13cheungjn1 »
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jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #111 on: August 22, 2017, 11:48:40 pm »
+3
I am actually really worried for two of my subjects chemistry and English, my ranks are bad and I am not sure if they actually matter or not. Another thing is if your rank is like 6/10 for a subject but you score a raw mark of 90 and above in the HSC does that mark go to the person who is coming first. If so how is that even fair? :-\

Welcome to the forums!! ;D 13cheungjn1 hit the nail on the head and you should definitely read the guide she linked - Just want to stress that if you get 90 in the HSC Exam, that is your mark. Your exam mark reflects your performance and yours alone. It is only the internal mark that is moderated based on the exam marks of your cohort - Again, the guide should explain all that nicely. Let us know if you have questions! ;D

hazzaizmine

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #112 on: August 26, 2017, 12:13:39 pm »
0
Okay that makes sense, so if your external mark is 90+ no one can touch that? And wanted to ask do the trials have a big effect on your HSC, because that's what my teachers are saying?

jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #113 on: August 26, 2017, 12:27:53 pm »
+3
Okay that makes sense, so if your external mark is 90+ no one can touch that? And wanted to ask do the trials have a big effect on your HSC, because that's what my teachers are saying?

Yeah exactly, external mark is yours and yours alone - It will be used to moderate the internal marks of your class but your external mark is untouched ;D

Trials are important, for sure, but your HSC is way more important than that :)

HandsomeJack

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #114 on: August 28, 2017, 12:01:29 pm »
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Hi,
I have a maths class that has a high top and a low bottom


I have a chemistry class that has results pretty spread out



Is it better to improve the results of the top 5, bottom 5 or the whole class for each of the situations stated above?
My rankings aren't great: 4th in both.

Thanks

jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #115 on: August 28, 2017, 01:36:11 pm »
+2

Hi,
I have a maths class that has a high top and a low bottom


I have a chemistry class that has results pretty spread out



Is it better to improve the results of the top 5, bottom 5 or the whole class for each of the situations stated above?
My rankings aren't great: 4th in both.

Thanks

Hey! The improvement is going to mean the same whether you are getting the improvement from the top or the bottom. You want a high class average, so you want everyone to do as well as possible essentially

bun00

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #116 on: August 28, 2017, 01:42:51 pm »
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hey ppl!
jst wondering....do languages scale well? even a beginners subject?
tku! ;)

jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #117 on: August 28, 2017, 01:47:10 pm »
+1

hey ppl!
jst wondering....do languages scale well? even a beginners subject?
tku! ;)

Hey! I think it varies a bit, you can check out the figures yourself towards the end of this document here!! Look for the table of scaled marks versus percentiles, and just compare your language with other subjects

http://www.uac.edu.au/documents/atar/2016-ScalingReport.pdf

bun00

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #118 on: August 28, 2017, 05:47:35 pm »
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also...i currently do 12 units and am already guessing which of my subjects wont be included in my 10 units for ATAR score as it is unspeakably low low lowww :o...so..i feel that if i work hard to get that subject (mathematics) off its feet i'm only gonna lose time where i could be working for my already better subjects....so should i just be focusing on my better subjects as im pretty sure that bad one will not be included to calculate my atar....if that makes sense?! be v glad of any help  ;D however, perhaps mathematics scales better than my other subjects so now i'm really boxed!

jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #119 on: August 28, 2017, 06:20:34 pm »
+3
also...i currently do 12 units and am already guessing which of my subjects wont be included in my 10 units for ATAR score as it is unspeakably low low lowww :o...so..i feel that if i work hard to get that subject (mathematics) off its feet i'm only gonna lose time where i could be working for my already better subjects....so should i just be focusing on my better subjects as im pretty sure that bad one will not be included to calculate my atar....if that makes sense?! be v glad of any help  ;D however, perhaps mathematics scales better than my other subjects so now i'm really boxed!


I think the conflict you are having here exemplifies exactly why it just doesn't make sense to neglect any HSC subjects. At the end of the day you just don't know what will happen in the other exams, and having Mathematics as a backup could come in handy.

In my opinion, just work really hard on everything, try to bring 2U up as much as you can bring it up working a sensible amount. Even numbers aside, that way you can say you literally gave everything your best effort ;D