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August 04, 2020, 07:07:49 am

Author Topic: Does High Internal Marks = High Atar?  (Read 617 times)

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Coolmate

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Does High Internal Marks = High Atar?
« on: December 12, 2019, 03:50:35 pm »
0
Hi Everyone,😀

Does anyone know what would happen to my atar, if I got high internal marks (high 90's), and about 75 or 80+ in the externals how this would affect my atar overall.🤔

For example getting at 99+ atar would NESA take into consideration these high marks, therefore equalling a high atar? (Along with external marks?)

Sorry if this doesn't make sense

Thanks in advance!😁
Coolmate😎
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louisaaa01

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Re: Does High Internal Marks = High Atar?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2019, 05:00:09 pm »
+8
Hi Everyone,😀

Does anyone know what would happen to my atar, if I got high internal marks (high 90's), and about 75 or 80+ in the externals how this would affect my atar overall.🤔

For example getting at 99+ atar would NESA take into consideration these high marks, therefore equalling a high atar? (Along with external marks?)

Sorry if this doesn't make sense

Thanks in advance!😁
Coolmate😎

Hey Coolmate,

This may be an oversimplification but from my understanding, your external mark is almost used as the 'standard' to which your internal mark is compared. What this means is that, if your entire cohort got high internal marks but low external marks, NESA may conclude that your internal exams were too 'easy' and so the internal marks of your cohort would be lowered (preserving spacing between marks and ranks) to match up with the cohort's external average.

However, say hypothetically you ranked first in a subject internally, and come HSC time you were one of the only people in your cohort who performed worse externally than internally. Your internal mark will be adjusted to align roughly with the top HSC mark achieved in your cohort, and if your cohort is strong, your mark won't be jeopardised. So in this instance a high internal performance can compensate for a poorer external performance. This is why teachers always stress the importance of the entire cohort doing well in the HSC - it's so marks don't get scaled down!

In terms of how this translates to an ATAR, it really depends on how the rest of the state goes! Generally speaking though, if you perform worse externally compared to your internals, provided the rest of your cohort didn't follow this trend, (depending on your marks of course) you still have a decent chance at attaining Band 6's across your subjects and thus a 99+ ATAR!

I hope this helps!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 05:17:43 pm by louisaaa01 »
2019 ATAR: 99.95

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fun_jirachi

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Re: Does High Internal Marks = High Atar?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2019, 11:45:11 pm »
+6
Just adding on to louisaaa01's answer, (this is still oversimplified) your internal mark determines your rank amongst those in your school, and then it gets matched up to the range of external marks achieved by your school using some distribution to determine your internal mark. It's then averaged with your actual external mark to provide your HSC mark. Essentially, to maximise your ATAR you have to beat the majority of your cohort internally and get you and your whole cohort to perform externally - it's why the joke 'I'll help you after Trials' exists and makes sense.

The whole system basically exists to increase the fairness of exams from different schools; schools are thus given motivation to not, say, make their exams piss easy. In the situation you describe, there are many possible outcomes, and they depend on two main variables; how well your cohort has done compared to you internally and how well your cohort has done externally. If your rank is high, and your cohort does well, your 75-80 should be pulled up. If your rank is low and your cohort is strong and you underperform, you're still likely to get pulled up and worst-case scenario you maintain your mark (this is why performing together is so important!). On the other hand, if you rank highly and your cohort underperforms as well as yourself, you get dragged down - similar to if you rank lower and you and your cohort underperform; it's likely the best-case scenario is you maintaining your mark or marginally getting dragged up.

Your ATAR is then determined from the scaled aggregate of your HSC marks, and compared to the rest of the state. Note that NESA doesn't calculate the ATAR, UAC does - the ATAR exists for entry into tertiary level study, and the whole point of internals is for a rank and aligned internal mark - NESA doesn't otherwise care about them in the calculation of your overall HSC mark. Therefore, it's quite erroneous to state that NESA would take into consideration anything internally and also that anything internal equals a high ATAR - remember also that internals are just half the ATAR.

Hope this makes sense!
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Coolmate

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Re: Does High Internal Marks = High Atar?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2019, 01:10:03 pm »
+1
Hey Coolmate,

This may be an oversimplification but from my understanding, your external mark is almost used as the 'standard' to which your internal mark is compared. What this means is that, if your entire cohort got high internal marks but low external marks, NESA may conclude that your internal exams were too 'easy' and so the internal marks of your cohort would be lowered (preserving spacing between marks and ranks) to match up with the cohort's external average.

However, say hypothetically you ranked first in a subject internally, and come HSC time you were one of the only people in your cohort who performed worse externally than internally. Your internal mark will be adjusted to align roughly with the top HSC mark achieved in your cohort, and if your cohort is strong, your mark won't be jeopardised. So in this instance a high internal performance can compensate for a poorer external performance. This is why teachers always stress the importance of the entire cohort doing well in the HSC - it's so marks don't get scaled down!

In terms of how this translates to an ATAR, it really depends on how the rest of the state goes! Generally speaking though, if you perform worse externally compared to your internals, provided the rest of your cohort didn't follow this trend, (depending on your marks of course) you still have a decent chance at attaining Band 6's across your subjects and thus a 99+ ATAR!

I hope this helps!

Hey louisaaa01!
Thankyou so much! This makes a lot more sense now especially this part:

Quote
However, say hypothetically you ranked first in a subject internally, and come HSC time you were one of the only people in your cohort who performed worse externally than internally. Your internal mark will be adjusted to align roughly with the top HSC mark achieved in your cohort, and if your cohort is strong, your mark won't be jeopardised. So in this instance a high internal performance can compensate for a poorer external performance. This is why teachers always stress the importance of the entire cohort doing well in the HSC - it's so marks don't get scaled down!

Thanks again!
Coolmate 8)
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Coolmate

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Re: Does High Internal Marks = High Atar?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2019, 01:44:04 pm »
0
Just adding on to louisaaa01's answer, (this is still oversimplified) your internal mark determines your rank amongst those in your school, and then it gets matched up to the range of external marks achieved by your school using some distribution to determine your internal mark. It's then averaged with your actual external mark to provide your HSC mark. Essentially, to maximise your ATAR you have to beat the majority of your cohort internally and get you and your whole cohort to perform externally - it's why the joke 'I'll help you after Trials' exists and makes sense.

The whole system basically exists to increase the fairness of exams from different schools; schools are thus given motivation to not, say, make their exams piss easy. In the situation you describe, there are many possible outcomes, and they depend on two main variables; how well your cohort has done compared to you internally and how well your cohort has done externally. If your rank is high, and your cohort does well, your 75-80 should be pulled up. If your rank is low and your cohort is strong and you underperform, you're still likely to get pulled up and worst-case scenario you maintain your mark (this is why performing together is so important!). On the other hand, if you rank highly and your cohort underperforms as well as yourself, you get dragged down - similar to if you rank lower and you and your cohort underperform; it's likely the best-case scenario is you maintaining your mark or marginally getting dragged up.

Your ATAR is then determined from the scaled aggregate of your HSC marks, and compared to the rest of the state. Note that NESA doesn't calculate the ATAR, UAC does - the ATAR exists for entry into tertiary level study, and the whole point of internals is for a rank and aligned internal mark - NESA doesn't otherwise care about them in the calculation of your overall HSC mark. Therefore, it's quite erroneous to state that NESA would take into consideration anything internally and also that anything internal equals a high ATAR - remember also that internals are just half the ATAR.

Hope this makes sense!

Hey fun_jirachi! :D

Thanks for such an in depth answer, I really found this helpful and informative! I understand now the impact of the internal marks on the overall atar.

Thanks again,
Coolmate 8)
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