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Author Topic: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-  (Read 84940 times)  Share 

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Orb

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{SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« on: April 05, 2015, 10:59:59 am »
+63
Throughout the past few months I've noticed countless topics and threads with the same (or similar) questions posted:

'If I'm rank one does that mean my exam decides if I get a 50 or not?'

'If I'm ranked 85th can I still get a 40'

'Do rankings really matter so much'

'I failed my first SAC does this mean I'm doomed'

'What happens if my SAC ranking is not good enough'

If those are the questions buzzing inside your mind right now, relax and grab a cookie. Seriously.
Just first up, don't stress. Your SAC ranking right now means virtually little or nothing as only 10-25% of SACs have been completed for the year so it's by no means fixed. Without further ado, a detailed analysis of what rankings construe and an attempt to answer all questions you have about rankings have been made.

Rankings:
Imagine that we have a cohort of 5 students (Yes, most cohorts are much larger, but for the sake of demonstrating the concept of rankings, i'm only going to use 5.)

Student A: Average 95%, Rank 1
Student B: Average 80%, Rank 2
Student C: Average 65%, Rank 3
Student D: Average 40%, Rank 4
Student E: Average 10%, Rank last/5.

Your teachers submit your SAC averages out of whatever score criteria VCAA requires them to submit as, for example, 95/100 or 190/200 or 285/300, you get the gist. They also submit what is known as your 'Rank' (this is highlighted in bold above (see Rank 1). It is essentially the ranking or what place you are within your year, based on your performances in SACs throughout the year. To those of you who believe that this is a competition in your own school, it IS. Note, do not attempt to sabotage your friends because that just makes you pretentious, self-interested and sets you up for failure later in life. There's more to life than just VCE, trust me, there is :)


Once your teachers have submitted their SAC rankings and your SAC grades, remember guys, your SAC marks (so whether you got 190 or 195/200) doesn't mean anything at the end, it's just submitted for the purpose of submitting it (rankings are what matters), VCAA looks at your exam grades. In our previous hypothetical scenario (in a common subject like Maths Methods):

Student A: Exam score: 204/240
Student B: Exam score: 236/240
Student C: Exam score: 210/240
Student D: Exam score: 112/240
Student E: Exam score: 80/240

Wait, you say, Rank 1 got a lower score than Rank 2 and 3? And this is just out of 5 students?! What happens now?? SAC scaling lets student B and C do well, right?

Yes, and no. What happens now is VCAA creates SAC scaling according to the respective exam scores of what students obtain. Because Student B got 236/240 on the exam and Rank 1 score in that cohort, a remarkable result, VCAA will scale the Rank 1 SACs to 100/100 (generally). This means that Student A, Rank 1, will now 'take' that 100/100 (and thank Student B, generously for 'carrying' his SAC grades, which is why a lot of schools push for students to help each other on the exam). Guys, if your friends do well on the exam, you get a better result too, win-win!!

Now, you ask, what happens to Student B? What happens to his SAC grade? Unfortunately, Student B would have received a 100/100 if Student A did just as well as him, or if Student C/D/E did better. Student B, being Rank 2, will now receive the 2nd best exam score's scaled SAC equivalent. So now, Student B receives C's SAC score scaled. We see that Student C got 210/240, so that'll probably scale to a 92-95/100 SAC-wise, and so Student B's Study Score would have been affected by around 1-2 Study Scores. Not a big deal, but then again, that's the difference of one rank in this circumstance.

Note: With a larger cohort, these inconsistencies are generally balanced out as the entire top 5-10 students can't all flunk the exam or do unnaturally poorly.

What happens to Student C, D and E then? Student C will receive Student A's exam score's scaled SAC equivalent, which happens to be very close to his own score, so he'll more or less receive the same Study Score.
Students D and E are unaffected because they received the same Exam rank as they did SAC rank.

End result?

Student A: +2 Study Score than what is deserved from the Exam
B: -2
C,D,E: No change

(remember that the numbers are all theoretical, it depends vastly on the subject and SAC weighting. For Maths, SACs-Exam are weighted 33-66, for some subjects it's as much as 60-40 the other way around).

Q: So if I'm rank 1 then nothing matters anymore, right?
Yes, you are the sole factor behind your Study Score. If you full mark your Exam as Rank 1, you will get a 50, no doubt. If you do badly, you may still get an A+ SAC score if others in your cohort do very well. So yes, Rank 1 is always an optimal goal.

Q: If i'm rank 300, can I still get a 50 if I ace the exam?
Right now, rank 300 can easily be clawed to top 20, let's say by the end of the year if you start working hard and committing yourself to your work. A top 20 ranking in a cohort can scale to 95-100/100 SAC-wise, especially for Maths subjects, allowing you to get a 50. If this is at the end of the year, if your SACs only scale to 70/100, you'll be hard pressed to get a 40, let alone a 50. (Those 30 SAC marks is around 10-15 exam marks in Mathematics, very hard to make up). In languages, the difficulty of climbing is exacerbated even more, and you'll probably be hard pressed to get a 35.

Q: If I get an 80% SAC average and 100% on the exam, will I receive the same S.S as someone who got 100% SAC average and 80% on the exam?

Not very likely. Your actual averages mean next to nothing and SACs will generally scale, whether it's up (from tough SACs) or down (from notoriously easy SACs).

Q: I've heard of people coming rank 30 or something like that, acing the exam and getting Study Scores close to 50, why is that?

This is a very common question. That rank 30 comes from a super strong cohort where a Rank 30 can scale to something close enough to 95-98/100 and thus, an aced exam leads to a 49/50 S.S. If your SAC scales well from your ranking, your actual ranking doesn't matter anymore.

For all Study Score purposes (excluding bragging rights), Rank 15 = Rank 1 if they all scale to 100/100. Of course, Rank 1 still sounds better (and probably feels better too), but in a practical sense there's no difference.

Q: If I get an 80% SAC average and 100% on the exam, will I receive the same S.S as someone who got 100% SAC average and 80% on the exam?

Not very likely. Your actual averages mean next to nothing and SACs will generally scale, whether it's up (from tough SACs) or down (from notoriously easy SACs).

Q: I'm worried about my ranking right now, what can I do?

You can't change your ranking until the next SAC, so focus on performing your best on that SAC.

Q: I'm doing badly on my 1/2 subject, does this affect my 3/4s?

From a technical sense, no.
Unit 1/2 subjects lay the foundation for your 3/4, so it makes good sense to ensure that you have a strong foundation to build upon. However, if you score very badly for your 1/2 subject, you can still receive a high Study Score provided you put in the work between now and when you commence your 3/4.

Q: What happens if I'm ranked last but full marked the exam?
I'm going to assume that you're creating this hypothetical situation from the worst possible SAC scaled score, so that's assuming ranked last in a terrible cohort but somehow 'full marked' the exam.
Firstly, VCAA would probably check you for cheating and go through all their processes because this kind of thing never happens. Then they'd check your past SACs, and so on..
From a mathematical standpoint though, assume your SAC rank scaled to 20/100. If you full marked an exam like English, then you get an exam equivalent of 100/100 (60 scales to 100).
Total score? 120/200. That's enough for 60/100 SACs + 60/100 exam which is similar to a 36/60 exam score (6/10 essays). Probably a 30, 35 if you're really lucky?
For Maths, 20+200/200 = 220/300 which is only 80 + 140/200, so a 40 at best.
Full marking the exam doesn't mean much if your SACs are screwed, but this kind of scenario will most likely never exist in the first place.

Q: If you were rank 2/3 and you perform better than rank 1 in the exam, rank 1 takes your exam mark? is that true??

Let us say that Student B is Rank 2 and achieved 100/100 on his final exam. Student A is Rank 1 but 'only' achieved 95/100 on his final exam.

For the SACs component of the subject, Student A will receive the scaled 100 from Student B, whereas Student B for his SACs will receive a scaled 98 or 99 from Student A's exam performance. It might seem a tad 'unfair' to some, but remember that SACs are an indication of how well you've performed throughout the year, and the exam is just an indication of how well you perform during one exam (or maybe two). In the circumstances of the exam, one poorly answered question is often the difference between a 100 and 95, whereas it takes 4 or 5 poorly answered questions (or more) in SACs to make that difference.

Note: You will retain your own exam mark. That will never change, it's simply your SAC component of your study score that gets adjusted according to how well your cohort performs.

Summary: Rankings aren't really so mysterious, but the way VCAA operates ensures that every year new Year 11s are oblivious and blind to how they work, making VCE all that more elusive. Hope this was able to inform you more about the process behind SAC rankings and how they affect your study score. Never downplay the importance of SAC rankings in relation to your Study Score, but don't let it overwhelm you either. It is certainly not too late right now to make a change for the better. If you have any further questions please comment or reply to this thread and i'll include the question and answer for future students.

All the best, VCE students :)

Zealous

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 01:00:07 pm »
+5
Very well written hamo94! It'll definitely clear up a lot of questions about the SAC ranking system.

I love how you always wrote "exam score's SAC scaled equivalent" because that is extremely important when it comes to the scaling of SAC marks. A lot of people think that if Rank 1 scores 75% on the exam, they will receive 75% SAC marks, but that's not the case. If the exam was extremely hard, and the majority of 75% scoring exam students around the state actually had 100% SAC marks, then SAC marks of the other 75% student will likely scale to 100% as well. This is something I learnt when I checked my Statement of Study Score for Methods - I didn't get anywhere near 100% in the exams, but my SAC marks well still pushed up to 100/100, so the "exam score SAC scaled equivalent" is really what comes into play.
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cosine

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2015, 09:06:32 am »
+1
Just out of curiosity, what happens if you're last rank with like 0% SAC scores, but don't drop a single mark on the exam?
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Orb

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 10:16:53 am »
+1
Just out of curiosity, what happens if you're last rank with like 0% SAC scores, but don't drop a single mark on the exam?

Answered :)

strawberries

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2015, 07:15:36 pm »
+1
Q: What happens if I'm ranked last but full marked the exam?
I'm going to assume that you're creating this hypothetical situation from the worst possible SAC scaled score, so that's assuming ranked last in a terrible cohort but somehow 'full marked' the exam.
Firstly, VCAA would probably check you for cheating and go through all their processes because this kind of thing never happens. Then they'd check your past SACs, and so on..
From a mathematical standpoint though, assume your SAC rank scaled to 20/100. If you full marked an exam like English, then you get an exam equivalent of 100/100 (60 scales to 100).
Total score? 120/200. That's enough for 60/100 SACs + 60/100 exam which is similar to a 36/60 exam score (6/10 essays). Probably a 30, 35 if you're really lucky?
For Maths, 20+200/200 = 220/300 which is only 80 + 140/200, so a 40 at best.
Full marking the exam doesn't mean much if your SACs are screwed, but this kind of scenario will most likely never exist in the first place.
:o
damn I always thought your exam score WAS your study score especially if you had shit SAC marks
so I guess we all need to try our best in SACs!

Great post though hamo94, thanks for it :)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 07:22:14 pm by strawberries »
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scarletmoon

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2015, 07:59:12 pm »
+1
So if you have a low rank on the first SAC but then do really well on the next SAC, stay rank 1 for the rest of the year and full mark the exam, there's a chance of getting 50?
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Orb

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2015, 08:16:30 pm »
+2
:o
damn I always thought your exam score WAS your study score especially if you had shit SAC marks
so I guess we all need to try our best in SACs!

Great post though hamo94, thanks for it :)

Glad I clarified something for you! Hopefully this will be a great reference point in years to come :)

So if you have a low rank on the first SAC but then do really well on the next SAC, stay rank 1 for the rest of the year and full mark the exam, there's a chance of getting 50?

Provided you get a good exam result, definitely!

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2015, 07:04:27 am »
+1
Hi!
So can some one clarify this for me?
I'm really confused. So basically, in the explanation that if you were rank 2/3 and you perform better than rank 1 in the exam, rank 1 takes your exam mark? is that true?? And you get the second best exam mark/third best exam mark in your cohort in accordance to your rank? is there any way around that?? with rank 2/3 getting a higher score than rank 1? does that mean that if rank 1 does terribly on the exam they still get someone else's mark who worked really hard? I'm not sure I understand, it feels unfair.

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 07:55:15 am »
+6
Hi!
So can some one clarify this for me?
I'm really confused. So basically, in the explanation that if you were rank 2/3 and you perform better than rank 1 in the exam, rank 1 takes your exam mark? is that true?? And you get the second best exam mark/third best exam mark in your cohort in accordance to your rank? is there any way around that?? with rank 2/3 getting a higher score than rank 1? does that mean that if rank 1 does terribly on the exam they still get someone else's mark who worked really hard? I'm not sure I understand, it feels unfair.
Rank 1 will take your exam mark as their SAC mark, but their exam marks (and everyone elses') remains the same.
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Orb

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 09:45:45 am »
+4
Hi!
So can some one clarify this for me?
I'm really confused. So basically, in the explanation that if you were rank 2/3 and you perform better than rank 1 in the exam, rank 1 takes your exam mark? is that true?? And you get the second best exam mark/third best exam mark in your cohort in accordance to your rank? is there any way around that?? with rank 2/3 getting a higher score than rank 1? does that mean that if rank 1 does terribly on the exam they still get someone else's mark who worked really hard? I'm not sure I understand, it feels unfair.

Granny had a nice answer, thread has been edited accordingly :)

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2015, 03:26:15 pm »
+1
Hey Hamo, are separate SAC marks submitted for unit 3 & 4 in the maths subjects? Or are they just under GA1?
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Orb

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2015, 03:57:52 pm »
+2
Hey Hamo, are separate SAC marks submitted for unit 3 & 4 in the maths subjects? Or are they just under GA1?

SAC marks are all under GA1, so your U3 + U4 is combined together, meaning if your U3 was mediocre but U4 was 100%, then it'd pull you to a decent SAC grades :)

scarletmoon

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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2015, 03:48:14 pm »
+1
Wait I though GA1 was unit 3 GA2 was Unit 4 and GA3 was the exam?

Also do the predicted grades that teachers send to VCAA affect your study score?
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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2015, 04:03:48 pm »
+3
Wait I though GA1 was unit 3 GA2 was Unit 4 and GA3 was the exam?

Also do the predicted grades that teachers send to VCAA affect your study score?
Hamo's answer was specific to math subjects, which have two exams (one for each of GA 1 and 2)
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Re: {SAC RANKINGS} -All you need to know about it-
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2015, 05:21:49 pm »
+1
Quick question how to they discern between ranks if the ranks are really close together? Eg rank one is 100, rank two is 99 then rank 3-9999 is like 30-80 ( just hypothetically speaking).
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