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Coffee

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #390 on: May 31, 2015, 08:58:14 pm »
+2
I have a couple of articles that i need to compare which are mainly comprised of just an anecdote the whole way through, and i don't really know how this is persuasive and/or effects the reader.  I know this effect is something i should have learned in year 10/11, but i just don't really know what to write about these articles.

Thanks guys :)

Can you identify any PLTs within the anecdote? Has the author used emotive language or hyperbole in his/her retelling of a story? What about sensationalism or irony? Evidence? Bias? Has the author praised or attacked a specific group? Take a look at this PDF http://www.vcestudyguides.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2010/09/Persuasive-Techniques-Insight-Outcomes1.pdf that explains PLTs and their intended effect with examples.

Floatzel98

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #391 on: May 31, 2015, 09:14:06 pm »
0
Can you identify any PLTs within the anecdote? Has the author used emotive language or hyperbole in his/her retelling of a story? What about sensationalism or irony? Evidence? Bias? Has the author praised or attacked a specific group? Take a look at this PDF http://www.vcestudyguides.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2010/09/Persuasive-Techniques-Insight-Outcomes1.pdf that explains PLTs and their intended effect with examples.
Okay thanks :) For one of them, i can't really identify any link to his contention in his anecdote. It does still relate to the issue though. Can i still talk about how he is propositioning  the readers to feel about the issue for when he does reveal his contention? It might not make sense without the article here, but thanks for the help anyway. I had that PDF last year and i used it all the time, so thanks for showing me that again :)
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Coffee

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #392 on: May 31, 2015, 09:59:46 pm »
+2
Okay thanks :) For one of them, i can't really identify any link to his contention in his anecdote. It does still relate to the issue though. Can i still talk about how he is propositioning  the readers to feel about the issue for when he does reveal his contention? It might not make sense without the article here, but thanks for the help anyway. I had that PDF last year and i used it all the time, so thanks for showing me that again :)
You can discuss the use of anecdotal evidence as long as it is relevant to the author's attempt to persuade. So if the author uses anecdotal evidence but it doesn't quite relate to the overall contention, but it's essentially setting the audience up to agree; then it is an attempt to persuade the reader to agree with his/her contention. Does that kind of make sense?

It's a bit hard to know what you mean without having read the article and I feel as though I've misunderstood your question so apologies if I've gone on a complete tangent.

knightrider

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #393 on: June 01, 2015, 01:37:17 am »
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Hey literally Lauren.

Just wondering what will you be covering in the unit 4 headstart lectures for english.

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #394 on: June 01, 2015, 05:42:33 pm »
+5
Okay thanks :) For one of them, i can't really identify any link to his contention in his anecdote. It does still relate to the issue though. Can i still talk about how he is propositioning  the readers to feel about the issue for when he does reveal his contention? It might not make sense without the article here, but thanks for the help anyway. I had that PDF last year and i used it all the time, so thanks for showing me that again :)
Coffee is right, so long as you can link the technique to the contention, you're fine. Language Analysis isn't just about pointing out the devices that the author is using; in fact the examiners have recently been *subtly* reminding students that they have to do more than just state 'the author uses a rhetorical question as seen in this quote: "_____".' It's way more important that you make an attempt to talk about how this language is used to persuade. On their own, techniques aren't persuasive. So, an 'analysis' that does nothing but point out a list of techniques with no concept of the overall arguments is going to be literally pointless :)

Let's take a sample bit of mediocre analysis as an example:

In order to further his contention that the government's proposal is a bad idea, the author uses inclusive language like "we don't want this" to make readers agree with his argument and reject the proposal.

The reason this wouldn't score well is because it's just too broad. For starters:
In order to further his contention that the government's proposal is a bad 'bad' in what way? What part of the contention are we talking about here? Is the proposal inefficient? Costly? Misguided? Exploitative? Useless? You should never just use generic words like 'bad,' because no technique can support an entire contention - it might help you argue a single point, but you can't say 'the author's contention can be seen in this technique' idea, the author uses inclusive language like "we don't want this" this might be similar to what you're talking about; yes, it's inclusive language, but there's more to say about this language (much like how there's more to say about anecdotes than just 'this is an anecdote.') For instance, what group is the author including the audience in? Why might this be important? If you know something about the audience (eg. local community, group of schoolkids, parents, etc.) then how might they, in particular, be affected by this? to make readers agree with his argument ALWAYS avoid this sort of thing. If you're ever writing something that's so plain, it could fit into any language analysis essay; YOU NEED TO BE MORE SPECIFIC! Expressions like 'thus making the readers agree with him' or 'thereby strengthening his contention and making the audience see his point of view' are worth nothing! and reject the proposal. Why??? What has this language done to bring about this result? I've stated the author includes the reader... but I haven't done anything with that fact.

Instead, something like:

The author's use of inclusive language, as seen in the phrase "we don't want this," seeks to encompass readers in his own disapproval of the proposal. Furthermore, the sharp, laconic sentence acts as a matter-of-fact assertion, intended to compel readers to agree with the idea of the proposal being unwanted and harmful to the community.

is way more likely to be looked upon favourably because it takes you through a thought process, step by step.

Don't assume your marker will do the thinking and fill in the gaps for you, because they won't. :)

Hey literally Lauren.

Just wondering what will you be covering in the unit 4 headstart lectures for english.
We're still working out the time-breakdown so I don't know how long I'll be spending on different areas (most likely 3x45 minute sessions, but idk) so at the moment it's looking like:
- One session dealing with 'sophisticated' interpretations of Section A texts and how to better your analysis (in both Sections A and C) in order to increase your understanding beyond the surface-level stuff.
- One session about what makes a good contention, incl. how to write proper topic sentences and get a reliable essay structure for all three Sections (though less of Section B since not everyone will be writing a conventional essay with topic sentences; I'll touch on it briefly since I recommend writing a few normal essays even if you do plan to write creatively/persuasively/hybrid-ly, but the focus will again be on A&C primarily)
- On session on improving expression and essay flow; making your writing 'better' regardless of what level you're at and how confident you feel. This'll be geared more so towards Sec. B since 'quality of writing' is a fairly major part of the marking scheme, but it'll have trickle-down effects for the other sections too.

I've been trying to incorporate all of the suggestions people have been sending me, and I'd welcome any more recommendations you have! There'll be time for questions and queries on the day, of course, but judging by the February lectures, I probably won't get a chance to address everyone's concerns - so the more I know beforehand, the more I can cover.

And please don't hesitate to shoot me a message if you think 'oh, it's only a problem for me' or 'she'll probably think this is a stupid question.'
Because a) if you're having trouble with something, chances are, someone else is too. And they're going to be so grateful to know that someone else brought it up and that they're not alone :p Also, you may be aware of a problem that others are experiencing without realising it - so I don't consider it 'time wasted' even if we're dealing with a seemingly small concern.
And b) I spent the first half of Year 12 English in a state of 'meh, this is fine, I'll get by' before caving and asking my teacher 'how the hell do I do any of this??' Then I just spent the next few months asking as many questions, stupid and otherwise, until I reached a point where I felt like I understood the task and how I could best meet the requirements. Self-study can get you far, but unless you know what to do and how to do it, you'll end up kicking yourself at the end of the year - trust me.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 02:10:27 pm by literally lauren »

Apink!

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #395 on: June 02, 2015, 02:49:11 pm »
0
If I had a prompt:
"one has little control over one's reality"
What would I discuss in each paragraph, and what would be a good contention?
I can't think of a sophisticated contention, and how to develop this contention coherently in each paragraph.
It's a context expository essay

Thank you in advance! (:
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knightrider

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #396 on: June 02, 2015, 06:18:11 pm »
0

We're still working out the time-breakdown so I don't know how long I'll be spending on different areas (most likely 3x45 minute sessions, but idk) so at the moment it's looking like:
- One session dealing with 'sophisticated' interpretations of Section A texts and how to better your analysis (in both Sections A and C) in order to increase your understanding beyond the surface-level stuff.
- One session about what makes a good contention, incl. how to write proper topic sentences and get a reliable essay structure for all three Sections (though less of Section B since not everyone will be writing a conventional essay with topic sentences; I'll touch on it briefly since I recommend writing a few normal essays even if you do plan to write creatively/persuasively/hybrid-ly, but the focus will again be on A&C primarily)
- On session on improving expression and essay flow; making your writing 'better' regardless of what level you're at and how confident you feel. This'll be geared more so towards Sec. B since 'quality of writing' is a fairly major part of the marking scheme, but it'll have trickle-down effects for the other sections too.

I've been trying to incorporate all of the suggestions people have been sending me, and I'd welcome any more recommendations you have! There'll be time for questions and queries on the day, of course, but judging by the February lectures, I probably won't get a chance to address everyone's concerns - so the more I know beforehand, the more I can cover.

And please don't hesitate to shoot me a message if you think 'oh, it's only a problem for me' or 'she'll probably think this is a stupid question.'
Because a) if you're having trouble with something, chances are, someone else is too. And they're going to be so grateful to know that someone else brought it up and that they're not alone :p Also, you may be aware of a problem that others are experiencing without realising it - so I don't consider it 'time wasted' even if we're dealing with a seemingly small concern.
And b) I spent the first half of Year 12 English in a state of 'meh, this is fine, I'll get by' before caving and asking my teacher 'how the hell do I do any of this??' Then I just spent the next few months asking as many questions, stupid and otherwise, until I reached a point where I felt like I understood the task and how I could best meet the requirements. Self-study can get you far, but unless you know what to do and how to do it, you'll end up kicking yourself at the end of the year - trust me.

Some wisdoms:
(Image removed from quote.)

Thanks very much Lauren  :)

Callum@1373

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #397 on: June 02, 2015, 08:05:44 pm »
+3
If I had a prompt:
"one has little control over one's reality"
What would I discuss in each paragraph, and what would be a good contention?
I can't think of a sophisticated contention, and how to develop this contention coherently in each paragraph.
It's a context expository essay

Thank you in advance! (:
I guess the way you tackle the prompt is no defined way.

I think a good way to develop your contention is to start with a really basic idea say:

 - Everyone has a different reality and we jumble up our own with others.

Then advance it a bit more by saying something like:

 - Sometimes our reality however is not manipulated by others, but our own mind tends to change it

Then finish off with a stronger idea:

 - The implications of the prompt, e.g Losing touch with an objective reality can be dangerous

Hope I helped!  :)
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KingDrogba

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #398 on: June 02, 2015, 08:54:28 pm »
0
I am genuinely struggling to find examples of Identity and Belonging within the play 'The Summer of the Seventeenth Doll' i've read the play twice, and i need examples for an expository piece, does anyone have an ideas they are worth sharing?

I have an example to do with Roo, but struggle to discuss it.

Thank you!
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Callum@1373

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #399 on: June 03, 2015, 05:09:22 pm »
0
Hey Lauren,

In regards to exploring the possibilities of a prompt, where can we go when we have that 'type' of prompt that has about 3 elements in it, e.g 'Reality is influenced by place, time and people', rather than those ones which are more of a central focus like 'Reality is an ever changing concept'

While I have put a lot of effort this year on focusing of my ability to explore the prompt and not just say I agree because a,b and c, I feel those one's with numerous elements are just forcing me to write:

 - Reality is influenced by place
 - Reality is influenced by time
 - Reality is influenced by people

How can I avoid doing this? Can I just be like stuff you teachers I'm gonna talk about place and then lead that onto another facet of the prompt, but not time or people?

Thanks  :D
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thaaanyan

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #400 on: June 04, 2015, 09:08:44 pm »
+3
Hey Lauren,

In regards to exploring the possibilities of a prompt, where can we go when we have that 'type' of prompt that has about 3 elements in it, e.g 'Reality is influenced by place, time and people', rather than those ones which are more of a central focus like 'Reality is an ever changing concept'

While I have put a lot of effort this year on focusing of my ability to explore the prompt and not just say I agree because a,b and c, I feel those one's with numerous elements are just forcing me to write:

 - Reality is influenced by place
 - Reality is influenced by time
 - Reality is influenced by people

How can I avoid doing this? Can I just be like stuff you teachers I'm gonna talk about place and then lead that onto another facet of the prompt, but not time or people?

Thanks  :D

Hey! How's it going :)
Not Lauren but I hope I can help!
The prompt does generally provide for the easy three paragraph split which you've outlined above, and while simplistic if well executed it can still provide a powerful and captivating essay. You must address all aspects of the prompt though, no matter how you do it, so I wouldn't advise going down that hypothetical route.

Ultimately though your prompt is a springboard, it provides the basis for your discussion rather than dictating the confines within which your ideas must operate.
For example, you could contend that while, reality is a byproduct of facets of  individual's external environment (time, place, people) it can also be further influenced by our own introspection and the unique ability individuals have to develop/grow through challenging their own ideologies and pre-conceived notions of what reality means to them. What about the impact of social expectation and social norms or even the way our understanding of the world we live in is limited in accordance to the info we have of the  world?
What i'm trying to say is while you must to some degree discuss time, place and people the prompt is not limiting you from discussing other factors which influence someone's reality, or the way in which you split your ideas: e.g you may draw connections between time and place and the nature of reality in one paragraph and then in the second/ third para may focus on two different ideas regarding people.

good luck! hope this helps! :)

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #401 on: June 04, 2015, 10:45:38 pm »
+1
Anyone ?
We'll get to it (I can try to tomorrow) but please don't bump like that after only an hour, people round here do their best to answer quickly but remember it's free help! (and I've got to go to bed -.- :P)
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #402 on: June 05, 2015, 10:23:27 am »
0
For an expository essay, do I have to actually mention the text that it is based around?

Thanks.

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #403 on: June 05, 2015, 11:44:15 am »
+1
For an expository essay, do I have to actually mention the text that it is based around?

Thanks.

Technically, no. Actually, yes.

The requirement is that you draw ideas from the text in order to aid your discussion; so long as you're dong that, you're fine. The trouble is that this criterion is stupidly vague and I doubt even VCAA could provide a concrete example of what they mean by this. So for safety's sake, I'd advise most people to use an overt link like

'Similar ideas are reflected in Barry Levinson's film 'Wag the Dog' when...' or 'As can be seen in Bertolt Brecht's play 'Life of Galileo'...'

especially for an expository essay where those sorts of links can be done smoothly, without disrupting the flow of something like a creative narrative of a speech.

If you're in the same position I was in that you don't want to write about the set text, or find other ideas waaaaaaaay more interesting, just get it out of the way really quickly. Unpack some key ideas from the text in your first paragraph, then you can move on to better territory afterwards :)

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #404 on: June 05, 2015, 12:09:07 pm »
0
Technically, no. Actually, yes.

The requirement is that you draw ideas from the text in order to aid your discussion; so long as you're dong that, you're fine. The trouble is that this criterion is stupidly vague and I doubt even VCAA could provide a concrete example of what they mean by this. So for safety's sake, I'd advise most people to use an overt link like

'Similar ideas are reflected in Barry Levinson's film 'Wag the Dog' when...' or 'As can be seen in Bertolt Brecht's play 'Life of Galileo'...'

especially for an expository essay where those sorts of links can be done smoothly, without disrupting the flow of something like a creative narrative of a speech.

If you're in the same position I was in that you don't want to write about the set text, or find other ideas waaaaaaaay more interesting, just get it out of the way really quickly. Unpack some key ideas from the text in your first paragraph, then you can move on to better territory afterwards :)


By first paragraph, do you mean the body paragraph or the introduction?  ;D