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YellowTongue

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #345 on: May 12, 2015, 11:00:41 pm »
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In general, how do you go about memorizing quotes? Do you just sit down a stare at them for ages, or is there a technique you use? Also, how many quotes should I try and memorise for each text that I'm studying?

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #346 on: May 13, 2015, 06:12:46 pm »
+3
hey lauren,

I'm reading this article:
and i'm not quite sure what the author is trying to say about the 'artificial haemoglobin' in comparison to the new stem cel ideology.
I get that the article is trying to lead readers more into the stem cell version, because they say its the 'new idea', but they didn't really say what's wrong with the 'artificial haemoglobin' version. is it just presented there for the author to seem like she knows her science?
That section you've bolded would probably be one of the bits you'd leave out in analysis. That's not to say there isn't some worthwhile language to discuss, but it just doesn't seem very central to the argument. Most of it is just an outline about the history of the process that serves as a backdrop for the 'new idea.' Overall, this doesn't seem like a very persuasive piece though. It's more like the sort of thing you'd see in a scientific journal than a VCAA exam :)

How should you break down a text response prompt and then answer it?
What structure should i be looking as a guideline to my writing?
There is no 'one' breakdown and there is no 'one' structure. In fact, it's better if you build off what you know and try to shape that into something suitable than adopt someone else's methods completely. There are some recommendations on the first page of this thread, and you could always read practice essays to get a sense for what works well and what doesn't, but ultimately there are so many things you could do right and wrong, sometimes it's best to just sump in and work on little things gradually rather than trying to formulate a fool-proof format before you know your own strengths and weaknesses.
Breaking down the prompt should help you open up the prompt and tease out some interesting ideas, and your structure should enable you to explore these ideas. Beyond that, it's pretty much up to you :)

Hi Lauren,

Regarding shortening quotes, my teacher says to shorten them to 5 or 6 words but I'm finding it hard to shorten quotes from "Maus". I find that if I try to shorten them, I lose the a lot of the significant of the quote so it doesn't prove the point I'm trying to make.

Also, for remembering quotes, should I write the quotes under categories of themes or categories of what the character says?

Thanks
In general, how do you go about memorizing quotes? Do you just sit down a stare at them for ages, or is there a technique you use? Also, how many quotes should I try and memorise for each text that I'm studying?


I'll deal with these together since it seems like there's some overlap.

With very few exceptions, no one really gets much of a learning benefit from just staring at words on a page. Association is a much stronger and more efficient way of remembering materials. For starters, grouping quotes is really valuable: try and do so either by themes or characters depending on your text, and then you'll quickly start to link certain ideas together. Plus, when you start writing essays on these ideas, the links get even stronger.
That said, there's no need to be testing yourself too early. No one expects you to simply read a text once, write some notes, and then be able to roll out quotes with complete confidence. The first few practice paragraphs or essays you write should definitely be making use of your resources: have the text open in front of you, refer to your notes as you go, and perhaps even use class discussion or teacher feedback (whatever is more helpful) to compliment your own exploration.

For the more hardcore amongst you, you might even try some more elaborate memory hacks. Like I said, association is the most reliable means of forging mental connections, but it's usually easier to associate unfamiliar material with familiar things. So rather than just listing a whole bunch of quotes and 'associating' it with a character's name or a theme isn't likely to help.

There's a memory contest every year where geniuses the world over try to beat the world record for the amount of shuffled card decks memorised; (I believe it stands at about 60 or so) and when these people are interviewed, they often talk about how they make connections in order to aid their memories. For instance, they'll assign each card a certain person place or thing, so if they have to memorise a sequence like: Jack of Clubs, Two of Diamonds, Nine of Hearts - then they'll tell a little story with the assigned meanings. Let's say the Jack of Clubs = Jack Dawson from Titanic; the Two of Diamonds = my mothers' diamond earings, and the Nine of Hearts = my dog because she's nine years old. In order to remember the sequence, I'd simply picture Jack Dawson wearing my mother's earings, patting my dog.
^That's a way more memorable, vivid image than an objective sequence.

So how would this help you in VCE?
You obviously wouldn't need to go to such an extreme, but the same principles can be applied on a small scale. For instance, one of the books I studied in Year 12 dealt with the theme of identity and self-perception/deception, so I wrote up a list of quotes that related to these concepts and pinned them up on my bathroom mirror (because the mirror is where you see yourself, and reminds me of things like vanity and self-awareness.) Not only did that mean I was seeing the quotes a couple of times a day, but I was also able to connect them to one another under that umbrella of 'identity and perception.'

You could do the same with some of your other themes: perhaps print off a list of quotes about the importance of place and setting and blue-tack them to your front door or bedroom window. Or grab a list of ones about relationships between characters and put them next to your photo frames of your own friends and family. You can get as creative as you want - the important thing is that the immersion works as both a deliberate and incidental form of learning; when you need to memorise more, you can consciously tell yourself to go read the lists and recite them, and when you're just lying in bed exhausted after a long day, your eyes might glance over the list on your bedside table. Gradual absorption is hard to notice, but it does happen, and it does help.

And of course, using the quotes in the context of your analysis (ie. practice essays) is also very beneficial.

In terms of shortening quotes, it does depend on the text. Maus does have a lot more dense sentences, but there should still be a 'core' for most of the quotes that'll be containing most of the critical information you need. There are exceptions, and sometimes you just need to quote about ten words or so, but for the most part, the unimportant stuff can be paraphrased. Also, don't discount the role of quote modification. Altering the grammar of the quote can be an easy way of cutting down irrelevant information. Just use [square brackets] to add new information or replace words/letters that don't fit, and use ... ellipses ... to omit details.

So if I wanted to alter the sentence: "Jimmy, why don't you just go away and abandon your foolish dream"
I could say: Suzie is very critical of her brother's attitudes, and questions why he doesn't "just... abandon [his] foolish dream" to fly an aeroplane.
I'm hoping this is familar to you; if not, let me know and I can explain this in more detail. Otherwise, perhaps give me an example or two of the kinds of quotes you're finding hard to shorten and I can walk you through it :)

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #347 on: May 13, 2015, 06:57:09 pm »
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Thanks Lauren for the thorough reply,

A couple of the quotes are:

”Friends? Your friends...? If you lock them together in a room with no food for a week...then you could see what it is friends."

"It sounds like you're feeling remorse - maybe you believe you exposed your father to ridicule... And now that you're becoming successful, you feel bad about proving your father wrong."

Also, this might sound silly but do I have to include the page number in the quote and should I remember the entire quoted or a shortened version of the quote?

Thanks again!

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #348 on: May 13, 2015, 07:13:02 pm »
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^Not answering, just linking you to another of Lauren's posts for more advice on quotes :): Re: English Q&A

But far more important (:P) is my own question: I want to start reading the news to get some vague understanding of what's going on in the world.  I'm the most ignorant current-events person you've ever met.  But I don't know where to start - I don't know what sites to look at, or how to cope with the fact that I start reading an article and don't have the slightest clue of what's going on because I have no background.  Can you point me to any good (+ free) site or newsfeed or give me any newspaper-reading advice Lauren?

Thought I'd throw the question here because reading the news is great for language analysis and external examples for context (not that I ever did it).  Thankye kindly, your help is always much appreciated!
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #349 on: May 13, 2015, 07:59:03 pm »
+1
Thanks Lauren for the thorough reply,

A couple of the quotes are:

”Friends? Your friends...? If you lock them together in a room with no food for a week...then you could see what it is friends."

"It sounds like you're feeling remorse - maybe you believe you exposed your father to ridicule... And now that you're becoming successful, you feel bad about proving your father wrong."

Also, this might sound silly but do I have to include the page number in the quote and should I remember the entire quoted or a shortened version of the quote?

Thanks again!
So for that first quote, you'd probably want to concentrate on the last part that sounds a bit like a threat: "then you could see what it is friends" and perhaps the bit before that as context. But this is a great idea of where paraphrasing can come in handy, eg. The character declares that "if you lock them together in a room', only then would their true loyalties be revealed. That way, you're capturing the essence of the quote without using the whole thing.

Same goes for the second:
eg. The character implies the other character is plagued by his relationship with his father, and questions whether he "exposed [his] father to ridicule" and as such, "feel[ s] bad about proving him wrong."
Even that simple modification can help minimise what you're quoting.

Ideally you'd want to be familiar enough with the original/whole quote to be able to use it in different contexts and modifying it differently each time, so I'd say memorise the whole thing and just be prepared to chop and change on the go.

No, you don't need page numbers, but I've seen teachers get snarky about not including them in SACs, so check with yours to make sure. But in the exam, no, it's a waste of time and it's not required.

^Not answering, just linking you to another of Lauren's posts for more advice on quotes :): Re: English Q&A

But far more important (:P) is my own question: I want to start reading the news to get some vague understanding of what's going on in the world.  I'm the most ignorant current-events person you've ever met.  But I don't know where to start - I don't know what sites to look at, or how to cope with the fact that I start reading an article and don't have the slightest clue of what's going on because I have no background.  Can you point me to any good (+ free) site or newsfeed or give me any newspaper-reading advice Lauren?

Thought I'd throw the question here because reading the news is great for language analysis and external examples for context (not that I ever did it).  Thankye kindly, your help is always much appreciated!
For a very brief overview, watching the commercial news (probably Channel 9, or The 7pm Project or w/e it's called nowadays) will give you a quick and often slightly skewed run-down of current stories. However, on busy news days, this often isn't sufficient to get a full sense of the interesting stories, and on slow news days, you have to watch a lot of dull filler like 'studies have shown brunettes are more likely to be good at tennis' or 'this family bought a puppy today' shout-out to the first 30 seconds of this

ABC is your best bet for more in-depth coverage; the 7:30 Report have pretty good exposés, and whilst they get criticised for their left-wing bias, I honestly don't notice it much, if at all... or maybe that's just my own leftist perspective talking :p

SBS is definitely the forerunner for international news, and they take a much more journalistic approach to major stories than, say, Channel 7. It's a tad drier than most other sources, but it's probably the most reliable.

When it comes to written material, it might be worth reading around and finding a few journalists whose writing style you like, or whose views you consider engaging.
I'm very partial to satire myself, so now that Shaun Micallef's Mad as Hell is over for this season, I tend to read a lot of SBS' Comedy paper 'The Backburner'
some really amusing examples here :)

It's also a matter of personal interest levels: you can't really go wrong if you're just reading heaps of different materials (Andrew Bolt notwithstanding) but if you're not interested in the subject matter, it's likely to lose you quite early on. Personally, I've never been a fan of commerce or business-based news, so financial discussions usually bore me unless they're linked to an intriguing political or legal situation. By contrast, I'm quite fascinated with diplomatic relations, especially when it comes to cultural differences or linguistic barriers, so whilst the Bali executions were circling around in the media, I  was reading heaps about Indonesia's attitudes to prisons and drugs, and why the Australian government's approach put them between a rock and a hard place. Even this latest Budget discussion; there've been some interesting critiques of the language Abbot and Hockey have employed - most notably the x100 repetitions of 'a fair go' in the past 24 hours - which is rather amusing.

I definitely wouldn't call myself well-informed when it comes to current events; I kind of just read enough to get by for the sake of VCE English which is kind of tragic  ::) but I consider the ability to make connections just as important as what you're discussing. So I may not have an intricate understanding of the machinations of the Labour party, but I've written quite a few paragraphs comparing the Gillard-Rudd-Gillard metaphorical backstabbing with the literal backstabbing of Caesar by Brutus.
Basically, a passable grasp on Australian politics and famous Roman betrayals is more preferable, to me, than a really in-depth grasp on just Australian politics.

Also, if you're reading for the purposes of getting a quick overview of an issue or event: read the title, the first paragraph, and then the first and possibly last lines of every other paragraph. This often works for books too, provided it's not anything like Pynchon or Wallace where 'paragraphs' can go on for entire chapters :p

I guess it's best to find something that makes 'news' as well as individual news stories interesting on a personal level. Failing that, just befriend someone who's news-minded and make conversation with them so you can leech of their knowledge  :D

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #350 on: May 16, 2015, 05:52:32 pm »
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What's been the usual A or A+ cut off for unit 3 and 4? Just wondering and cant seem to find it anywhere
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #351 on: May 16, 2015, 05:59:04 pm »
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What's been the usual A or A+ cut off for unit 3 and 4? Just wondering and cant seem to find it anywhere

Search for 'vcaa grade distributions [year/subject]'.  Here are 2013 and 2014 distributions.  A+ seems about 84-85, A more like 74-75%.

P.S. Thanks Lauren for your help above!  Wery much obliged to ye.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 06:01:34 pm by bangali_lok »
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Chang Feng

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #352 on: May 18, 2015, 09:06:57 pm »
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what form best suits the below purpose of writing (for context):
so i'm writing an expository piece in which i am explaining the reasons for different ideas of the topic (ie conflict occurs between the powerful and powerless). -so some of my ideas are that since the powerful wants to maintain power they will dismiss any ideas that contradict them, and these ideas of contradiction usually come from the powerless individuals of society. so i would go on and explain why this happens, since like it is human nature to have a greed for power.... and then use set text to provide evidence of this. and then provide an evaluation of the consequences of such conflict. Then provide a solution/ action of what we individuals should do in the future/ why thus conflict cannot be erased and will keep lingering on in society and thus the consequences we individuals have to face.
(thanks for the advice).

Chang Feng

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #353 on: May 18, 2015, 09:17:37 pm »
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and is it acceptable to write an expository essay for context?? Since the audience, form, language choice and purpose must relate.

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #354 on: May 19, 2015, 08:18:56 am »
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what form best suits the below purpose of writing (for context):
so i'm writing an expository piece in which i am explaining the reasons for different ideas of the topic (ie conflict occurs between the powerful and powerless). -so some of my ideas are that since the powerful wants to maintain power they will dismiss any ideas that contradict them, and these ideas of contradiction usually come from the powerless individuals of society. so i would go on and explain why this happens, since like it is human nature to have a greed for power.... and then use set text to provide evidence of this. and then provide an evaluation of the consequences of such conflict. Then provide a solution/ action of what we individuals should do in the future/ why thus conflict cannot be erased and will keep lingering on in society and thus the consequences we individuals have to face.
(thanks for the advice).
It does depend on which type you are better at doing. It is likely that most people will do expository essays in the exam or for SACs. So less individuals will do imaginative and persuasive styled essays. I have heard from our school that an ordinary expository will get less marks than an ordinary creative or persuasive. However, saying that the other two forms are also tough. And also, remember that a good essay is a good essay regardless of the style that you use. If you write a good expository essay, you will get a good mark. Simple as that   :)
If you are in your final year, it's probably recommended that by this time of year, you choose the style that you will do for the exam and improve at it.
and is it acceptable to write an expository essay for context?? Since the audience, form, language choice and purpose must relate.
You certainly may write an expository. Just ensure that you state your audience, form, language choice and purpose clearly in the statement of intention, and also refer to your text and key ideas. As long as you follow your SOI, your essay should be good given that it does explore the key ideas in the text.
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #355 on: May 19, 2015, 08:53:18 pm »
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Can anyone give me some oral topics please? My oral presentation is in the first week of term 3 and I have not yet started :(
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scarletmoon

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #356 on: May 19, 2015, 08:54:39 pm »
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Can anyone give me some oral topics please? My oral presentation is in the first week of term 3 and I have not yet started :(


http://www.vcestudyguides.com/oral-presentation-topics-for-2015
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #357 on: May 20, 2015, 12:43:12 pm »
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How can I improve in English if I have no one to mark my essays?
I could post them on AN but I've noticed that it is not very active (the marking board) and I can't really ask my school teacher all the time.

If I don't know where I need to improve on and don't know what I have done well, is simply just writing an essay a day will help me?

I would appreciate your advice. Is there a way for my essays to be marked without annoying anybody?

p.s I can't get a tutor because I can't afford it!
p.p.s any advice will be appreciated


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heids

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #358 on: May 20, 2015, 01:57:51 pm »
+7
^ I decided a couple of days ago to start marking stuff (that is, from now onwards, not catching up on past ones); I've always thought I wasn't good enough, but while my marking won't be high calibre, hopefully it'll be still helpful in pointing out major issues.  So go for it occasionally, I'll give it a go if I have time.  Can't hurt if you post and don't get a response, anyway.  How about you try giving bits of feedback to others?  You'd learn a lot out of that yourself, and give the board a boost! :D

Anyway, PLEASE READ ALL THIS ADVICE as it is the most important thing I could ever say to a year 12.  You get way more out of the year if you work actively for yourself, rather than relying on being spoonfed or giving up because you're 'disadvantaged' by your SES/school/teachers/parents/situation.  I followed this advice for my 3 best subjects (which was why they became my top subjects), and felt totally on top of them; but I didn't for English ==> was completely unsure, confused and terrified; I kept harping on the fact that "I didn't know" and "I didn't have enough resources" (I hadn't really looked at AN, unfortunately).

OK, so.  I understand it's frustrating having limited resources (I couldn't afford to pay anything other than school fees for English), but the most valuable skill you can learn is being able to teach yourself with the resources you've got (actually, you have access to more than you think, it just depends on how you use it).  Because if you can learn what is required of a good essay, you'll then be able to see your own strengths and weaknesses by yourself.

  • Read VCAA exam reports and know the criteria inside out
  • Read through advice threads in the Eng resources thread, and at VCE study guides etc. (there's a ridiculous amount of free stuff if you just search for it!), and watch vTextbook; don't just read/watch, actively take notes
  • Critically go through high scoring responses; break down their arguments into detailed dot-points; watch how they do topic sentences; steal phrases or ways of expressing themselves really clearly; go through how they're different to yours; and so on.  Pull 'em apart.
  • Go through feedback given to other essays (i.e. read through the Compilation of Text Response/Context/Lang Analysis Feedback stickies in the Work Submission board).  In all probability, you will have fallen into the same pitfalls or have the same high points as some of the markers point out to other people.  You can learn SOOO much to apply to yourself!!! TAKE NOTES.  It's almost as good as direct feedback on your own, since Ned Nerb and Darvell gave great feedback.
  • Read through Lauren's 50 in English, available for queries :) and this year's Q&A; sure, skip irrelevant stuff, but I tell you there is sooo much gold that you don't want to miss like I did last year.  And again, taken notes.

Essentially what I'm saying is, actively use your resources.  If you really try, you can teach yourself how to write a good essay, and what things to avoid.  You can teach yourself how to mark your own work and find your own issues.  (Never just write an essay without critically self-marking).  If you find a problem you can't solve, ask about it in this thread.  And use that occasional 'true' feedback from other experts to help you become even more of an expert!

Finally, try essay-swapping.  Give your friend an essay to mark, and you mark one of theirs.  Sure, it won't be the best feedback, but you'll be able to help each other; and actually, marking other people's work really helps you discover faults and try to come up with ways to fix them.

tl;dr (though I hope you did read >:( :P): RELY ON YOURSELF, and actively use the resources you already have to teach yourself: AN, high-scoring essays, feedback on essays in the WM&S board, Lauren's Q&A threads, etc.

P.S. Some day I will learn the skill of writing a short post.  Some day.
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Apink!

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #359 on: May 20, 2015, 02:54:51 pm »
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Hi
I read everything!
You made me realise how much resources are actually floating on AN. Yes, I realise now that not being able to afford resources is just an excuse.
I will go on the English question thread now and take notes!

Thank you so much for an insightful advice. I couldn't have asked anything more
p.s you're awesome! :P
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