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Author Topic: VCE English Question Thread  (Read 847397 times)  Share 

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pinklemonade

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #210 on: March 07, 2015, 10:35:04 am »
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Hey! I don't know if this question has been answered or not but I was wondering how would you write the conclusion for a comparative language analysis?
Would you talk about the first article, second, or both?

Thank you
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scarletmoon

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #211 on: March 07, 2015, 11:14:46 am »
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I need help finding some external examples for the promp conflict can discriminate. I already have some examples for racial discrimination just wanting to find examples of other types of discrimination caused by conflict
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #212 on: March 07, 2015, 06:32:22 pm »
+4
Hey! I don't know if this question has been answered or not but I was wondering how would you write the conclusion for a comparative language analysis?
Would you talk about the first article, second, or both?

Thank you
You could get away with doing either, but it depends on the spread of the material. For something like the 2014 exam where the first piece was definitely the 'core,' you could just have dealt with that one section in your conclusion. However, if you had two articles of around equal length, it would be more conventional to draw on both of them when you wrap things up.
I'd recommend trying to use both anyway like you would in an intro, eg. 'Ultimately author X's appeals to a sense of justice and decency are designed to promote discord amongst people, whereas author Y's aggressive tone and pejorative language is indicative of his attempts to divide the local community...'

I need help finding some external examples for the promp conflict can discriminate. I already have some examples for racial discrimination just wanting to find examples of other types of discrimination caused by conflict
You could go for the typical forms of discrimination, like sexism, ageism, ableism, classism, heteronormativity, etc.
But it might be more interesting to unpack the idea of 'discrimination.' What is it, really? What is it based on? Why does it occur? Do our small judgments contribute to overarching ones (eg. my neighbour Joe is mean, therefore all people called Joe are mean) or do pre-existing stereotypes feed into our personal judgments? (eg. everyone knows people called Joe are mean, therefore my neightbour Joe must be mean.) Or both? Do we need a label to judge people?
And more importantly, when we look at the whole prompt 'Conflict can discriminate' some more important questions arise: how does conflict itself discriminate? Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Are we even aware of this? Is it a process we can fight or reject, or are we powerless to stop the discrimination of conflict.

Perhaps it's just my reading, but I'd see this prompt hinting towards the consequences of conflict more than the specific forms of discrimination. You don't want you piece to turn into a list of examples that illustrate the same point.

If conflict discriminates, that means conflict separates people and assigns them different fates. Some people are strengthened by conflict, some are destroyed by it. This prompt is suggesting that process to be innate; is that something you agree with?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 06:24:58 pm by literally lauren »

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #213 on: March 07, 2015, 06:33:48 pm »
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Hoping someone can clarify this for me:

On the examiners report for English, provided are student examples from the exam that are labelled as "high scoring responses".
What exactly does this mean? Are the examples always a 10/10 - or are they anything from about an 8/10 to a 10/10.

I ask this because example 10/10 pieces seem to be a fairly useful way of identifying the standard of work I should work towards (I understand that english isn't a science and that I'm not following a formula for a perfect essay, but it would still be nice to have some examples of what the examiners like).

As an extension to this, are the example responses on ATAR Notes roughly a 10/10?

Thanks!
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Burt Macklin

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #214 on: March 07, 2015, 08:22:45 pm »
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Hi Lauren,

After doing a practice Context SAC for Encountering Conflict, I've found that I've having difficulty finishing a piece under the time limits because I'm struggling to think of relevant external examples. Do you think it's just a matter of practicing to improve on this?

Also, I also find that my paragraphs are basically being written as arguments for my contention. (My intro is basically like "This is my contention" "Because, X, Y and Z".) Is this the way to go or should I be doing more exploration of the prompt?

Thanks!

JackSonSmith

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #215 on: March 07, 2015, 09:54:08 pm »
+2
Hi Lauren,

After doing a practice Context SAC for Encountering Conflict, I've found that I've having difficulty finishing a piece under the time limits because I'm struggling to think of relevant external examples. Do you think it's just a matter of practicing to improve on this?

Also, I also find that my paragraphs are basically being written as arguments for my contention. (My intro is basically like "This is my contention" "Because, X, Y and Z".) Is this the way to go or should I be doing more exploration of the prompt?

Thanks!

Hello, I'm not Lauren but maybe I can help.
Your ability to write quickly would have a correlation with how well you know your examples. Knowing your external examples well before an essay should increase your confidence  and in turn your speed when writing.

As for paragraph structure, I think the quality of your ideas would be the most important part. There's no set way in which you should structure your piece. At the end of the day, your arguments should be an extension / support of your main contention, so there's nothing wrong with a your approach. 
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pinklemonade

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #216 on: March 07, 2015, 10:07:42 pm »
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Hey Lauren,
Just another quick question about comparative LA - how would you structure one with 2 articles of the same length?
I just read one that someone else posted and they had their intro, 6 body paras and conclusion..
This seems like a bit too much, is there another way of doing this?
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard"

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #217 on: March 07, 2015, 10:12:07 pm »
0
Hey Lauren,
Just another quick question about comparative LA - how would you structure one with 2 articles of the same length?
I just read one that someone else posted and they had their intro, 6 body paras and conclusion..
This seems like a bit too much, is there another way of doing this?

If you're referring to this essay, I had to analyse a third cartoon as well. But I prefer to keep my ideas separate as opposed to combining them into one big mush. The number of paragraphs doesn't really matter, as long as each paragraph explores an idea thoroughly from start to finish, I suppose

It doesn't seem that bad when you look at it on paper.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 10:17:07 pm by 99.90 pls »
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pinklemonade

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #218 on: March 07, 2015, 10:38:32 pm »
+1
If you're referring to this essay, I had to analyse a third cartoon as well. But I prefer to keep my ideas separate as opposed to combining them into one big mush. The number of paragraphs doesn't really matter, as long as each paragraph explores an idea thoroughly from start to finish, I suppose

It doesn't seem that bad when you look at it on paper.

(Image removed from quote.)

Ohh nah I was referring to this essay, but thank you! Just wasn't sure if it was possible to write that much in the restricted amount of time we're given
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #219 on: March 08, 2015, 10:41:01 am »
+4
Hoping someone can clarify this for me:

On the examiners report for English, provided are student examples from the exam that are labelled as "high scoring responses".
What exactly does this mean? Are the examples always a 10/10 - or are they anything from about an 8/10 to a 10/10.

I ask this because example 10/10 pieces seem to be a fairly useful way of identifying the standard of work I should work towards (I understand that english isn't a science and that I'm not following a formula for a perfect essay, but it would still be nice to have some examples of what the examiners like).

As an extension to this, are the example responses on ATAR Notes roughly a 10/10?
The 'upper-range'/'high band' essays at the end of the year can be anything from an 8 upwards. For the record, 'upper-mid range' usually means between 6-8, though sometimes the exact numbers are debatable. You can occasionally get 'borderline' responses that could be either a 7 or an 8, for instance. In the exam this just evens out to 15/20.

The important thing when working with examples is to work with multiple. There's an obvious danger in only using one or two essays as your point of reference; there are 101 ways of scoring 10/10, so by only studying a few of them, you're severely limiting your abilities.

The essays on ATAR Notes (the ones in the Resource thread at least) usually have their marks listed. If it's a fairly recent piece with a still-active user, you might be able to PM them if you really wanted to find out, but speaking from experience, you can learn just as much from an 8/10 piece than you could from a 10/10. So long as you have a well-developed sense of what separates a god essay from a bad or mediocre one, you'll be able to take what you need from other people's work and incorporate it into your own :)

Hi Lauren,

After doing a practice Context SAC for Encountering Conflict, I've found that I've having difficulty finishing a piece under the time limits because I'm struggling to think of relevant external examples. Do you think it's just a matter of practicing to improve on this?

Also, I also find that my paragraphs are basically being written as arguments for my contention. (My intro is basically like "This is my contention" "Because, X, Y and Z".) Is this the way to go or should I be doing more exploration of the prompt?

Thanks!
Like JackSon said, knowing your stuff will help cut down on time significantly. Are you practicing to an essay-per-hour time limit? Because unless your SAC is under those conditions, there's no reason why you should aim that high at this stage of the year. I know it's easy to get caught in the 'how the hell am I going to do this in an hour, this one essay took me three hours over a week' mentality, but trust me, it's a necessary process.
Look at it this way: in other subjects, you're not expected to complete an exam-level task in February/March. The SACs are modified to suit what you've learned thusfar. English isn't really like that. The prompts you get for a T.R./Context SAC could feasibly be on this year's exam, but that doesn't mean you'll write the same way. Everything leading up to the exam is a formative process, and you should be more concerned with developing your skills than conforming to strict limits.

Yes it's a matter or practice, but you won't be practicing 'cutting down on time.' You'll be practicing how to write well and hit the criteria efficiently; the timing is incidental for now.

The other thing I'd recommend is to work out why you take so much time (idk if you're 10 minutes or an hour over, but this applies either way.) Do you take ages to get started, or spend 15+ minutes on a plan? Do you get stuck after the first few paragraphs and run out of ideas/examples to use? Do you spend ages just putting your thoughts into words, and have to reread every sentence to ensure it makes sense?
Answering 'yes' to any one of these questions gives you a totally different path of study (ie. efficient brainstorming and preparation; idea development and example collecting; and vocab/expression respectively.)

For your second question, it depends what sort of piece you're writing. Your ''Because X Y Z" arguments could work well provided they're fleshed out enough. But you don't want to have three paragraphs that are all arguing the same thing.

eg. Prompt: 'Conflict changes how we view the world.'
--> B.P.1: It changes how we view other people.
--> B.P.2: It changes how we view our environment.
--> B.P.3: It changes how we view ourselves.
^A tad oversimplified, but you'd be surprised how many essays could be boiled down to something that plain. The trick is to have a complex contention that is based on, but not limited to the prompt.

Hey Lauren,
Just another quick question about comparative LA - how would you structure one with 2 articles of the same length?
I just read one that someone else posted and they had their intro, 6 body paras and conclusion..
This seems like a bit too much, is there another way of doing this?
Structure for L.A. SACs should be geared to whatever your teacher wants. Some love many paragraphs that cover as much of the article as possible, others prefer a standard essay format with 3-4 body paragraphs and clearly outlined focus points. I tend to advocate for the bigger paragraphs since the assessors seem more concerned with depth than breadth recently, but both are still important, so go for whatever you feel would give you the best opportunity to demonstrate your skills.
Roughly 800 words is the guideline. How you break this up is totally up to you (...and your teacher) :)


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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #220 on: March 08, 2015, 10:43:47 am »
+1
Hey lauren

What scores am i looking for a 35 minimum?

I know it depends on my cohort, exams etc.. But surely there's some sort of sac average that would lead to a 35. Thankyou, just worried :3
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #221 on: March 08, 2015, 11:00:12 am »
+4
Hey lauren

What scores am i looking for a 35 minimum?

I know it depends on my cohort, exams etc.. But surely there's some sort of sac average that would lead to a 35. Thankyou, just worried :3

uuuurrrrgggghhhh numbers -.-

This is the English Board, friend.

Quality > quantity. And that goes for feedback too.

I could tell you that 8/10s usually amounts in a ~40 SS, but that information is useless because averaging 8/10 throughout the year means nothing unless you're aware of what you're doing right and wrong. A kid at my school who was getting solid 10s for everything ended up with a 45 because he got unlucky in the exam. By contrast, one of my friends was hovering around 7s and 8s all year, but got her shit together and pulled of a 48. Numbers are malleable, and somewhat unpredictable. Your understanding isn't. If you go into the exam confident in the knowledge that you know how to handle prompts and best showcase your abilities, then you'll be in a much better boat than someone who strolls in thinking 'I'll be fine, I've been getting 9s since mid-year, I'm almost guaranteed a 40+'

AAAAND... a lot of teachers mark easier early in the year. Getting an 8 right now might only be worth a 6 in the exam. Not all of them do this (I'm certainly not a fan of it,) but it's quite common.

This, all coupled with the fact that you could be getting 8/10 for different reasons every time you write means... well, let's say you had two essays worth 8/10. The first had excellent ideas, but poor expression and quote usage. The second had mediocre ideas, but excellent structure and evidence integration. You figure you can just pick the most relevant parts from each of these essays and apply them to the prompt in the exam. But chance, you pick the ideas from essay 2, and the structure from essay 1, which would bump your mark down to maybe the 5-6 region.
However, if you manage to combine the best parts of both pieces, you might even score higher than an 8.

This is why knowing why you're getting a certain score is infinitesimally more valuable than the score itself.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 11:02:46 am by literally lauren »

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #222 on: March 08, 2015, 12:16:24 pm »
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With Text response, it seems as though when they give two prompts for a text, that one prompt is harder than the other- would the prompt difficulty have any influence on their marking scheme? Also, for analysis prompts (going by these categories http://www.vcestudyguides.com/types-of-essay-topics) I've been told that my essays for these types of prompts are almost too analytical and explicit in my analysis that it sounds more like a Language Analysis (e.g. "Through the author's use of the metaphor, (insert metaphor here), he/she exemplifies to readers the importance of ___). Do you have any tips on how to more subtly talk about what the author does to convey a certain meaning? Apparently I needed to focus more on the readers concerns and values rather than the language used to show what she is concerned about.
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #223 on: March 08, 2015, 04:32:34 pm »
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With a comparative language analysis piece, what structure would you suggest to write with? Some teachers say analyse them as completely separate pieces (Eg: Analyse the first article on its own, then analyse the second comparing/contrasting to the first) whilst another teacher told me to compare/contrast in the same paragraph
What should i do?
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #224 on: March 08, 2015, 04:56:37 pm »
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When starting essays with a quote, what is the maximum length of the quote? For example is this quote " conflict is the gadfly of thought, it stirs us to observation and memory. It shocks us out of sheeplike passivity and sets us at noting and contriving" too long to put at the start of an essay?
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