ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => General University Discussion and Queries => Topic started by: BasicAcid on September 17, 2013, 10:48:32 pm
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Well I was performing so badly in the beginning of first semester..I managed to recover from that with 60% average...now I've lost my discipline again..maybe just laziness...there is no one forcing you to study...but you end up with forcing yourself..
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At uni, if you pass, you pass. There's a saying, "P's get degrees", however, there is the addendum "... but HDs get jobs".
If you have any intention of going into higher study (honours, masters, phd), you'll need a strong average, usually a distinction or high distinction WAM and a high GPA. Given that these are based on your unit marks, you'll need to do well to make yourself mor employable and competitive in your chosen field.
Failing sometimes has immediate consequences as well as protracted ones. If you fail a unit, sometimes you will need to retake that unit, as it may be a prerequisite for other units. Even if it isn't, you may not be allowed to progress in a course without having passed said unit. Furthermore, if you fail a unit multiple times (I think it's more than twice) you will be brought up before an academic review board to explain. This board has the power to remove you from your course if they deem it necessary.
It's also a lot more fun and challenging to learn at uni, because its all on you. There isn't any of the high-school spoonfeeding at uni, where you have to do your own research and learn a lot under your own guidance.
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alondouek put it very well. To reiterate, you can fail, you can fail as many times as you want (even though the university may send you letters warning to kick you out if you continue to fail, they won't go through it unless it's an extreme case). What's the point though? You might as well go get a job and earn some money rather than wasting time at uni lol
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At the end of the day, you get quite a massive break from the end of year 12 to the beginning of university, plenty of time to catch up on tv shows and whatever else you want to do. I think that working hard first year provides a good foundation for subsequent years, and I assume in engineering you would be learning the basics for the more advanced subjects to come- so as you can see, it may not be a case of "working harder" during 2nd/ 3rd/ 4th year but actually self-teaching yourself the material you did not look over in first year. You may also change your mind about engineering and decide on a major/ graduate pathway that considers first year marks.
In addition, my brother who has a bachelor of engineering, failed one of his first year subjects and he had to repeat it in order to continue with other engineering subjects, so you don't want that! (Extra fees).
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SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU WANT IS A GAP YEAR.
If you slack off to have fun, you'll regret it. If you're SERIOUS about HAVING FUN (what a paradox) then I'd recommend just taking six months to a year off.
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Yeah the main thing I'm asking is if there are any long term 'effects' if I simply do nothing at all during my first year next year and just get 40s/50s?
Then I'll begin trying in my second and third year to get the Masters of Engineering.
I just want to relax next year, enjoy my first year being 18, start working again, drive around, go out, play some PS3/4 (haven't played PlayStation since year 10 lol), catch up on TV shows (up to end of season 1 of Breaking Bad lol, plenty more shows I want to watch), start going to gym again, etc...
I just don't want to be doing any study at home, just for one year, then I'll try from afterwards.
Take a gap year! As much as I enjoy uni (a lot, for the record), it would have been nice to have had a year off. Maybe you can convince your parents to let you go on a travel program (where you probably will have time to watch Breaking Bad, go to gym etc... but overseas :P )
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After 13 years of schooling I'm pretty much over everything study related; having to constantly be forced to a routine, those long hours of studying, stressing over tests/exams, etc.
So I'd like to have a break but I don't want to take a gap year, because that's just a waste of a year of your life plus my parents would never allow me to take one.
I've decided that when I go to university next year (aiming for bachelor of science at Melbourne Uni... Not to sound arrogant or anything but I'm pretty sure I'll be getting in considering how much studying I've been doing this year + my current scores) I'm simply going to do minimal/no work at all.
I know as a fact that you have to pass in order to 'move on', but what exactly happens if I simply scrape through with low 50%'s throughout my first year?
I'm aiming for a masters in engineering, but that's not until after my third year, so the first year shouldn't matter much right?
Also, what exactly happens if you fail a subject? Are there any long term implications?
Thank you in advance.
You get about 3-4 months between the end of year 12 and the start of university, so it's not as if you don't get a rest. But if you really insist that a 3-4 month holiday is inadequate, then I'd recommend that you defer your course and take a gap year.
Don't start university until you're ready to study hard. Even if you do pass, you won't retain the information as well when you go into 2nd and 3rd year compared to if you'd taken your education seriously right from the start.
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take a gap year - travel, work, live your life before you get stuck back into the daily grind of what is statistically most likely to be a life of mediocrity.
http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/time_off/index.html
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You sure do start some odd threads.
Taking a gap year is a 'waste of a year of your life'?
Man, take a gap year, or alternatively, apply for uni anyway, and see how you feel at the end of the 4 month break. Defer if you aren't ready. But 4 months is a long time to play PS3 and you'll likely be over it by then.
I WISH I had taken a gap year and as I've gotten older I am of the stronger belief that it should be encouraged far more than it is. Parents don't get it though and this makes it hard.
Everyone has already expressed exactly the right things so I won't repeat too much.
Doing badly in first year doesn't count 'as much' because they don't count it when seeing if you qualify for the Masters of Engineering.
However there are other consequences.
If you do *nothing*, you will more than likely fail. Uni is hard. You can't do nothing and still pass, like in school. If you fail, then you really have wasted a year, and a lot of money to boot.
Secondly, if you get 50%s, that means you've essentially only learned half of the material in the subject. Especially in Engjneering, subjects have strong 'follow on' aspects. If you have gaps in your knowledge that big, you will struggle to ever ever get on top of it again.
Let me reiterate. An Engineering major is hard. For anyone, it takes at least some commitment to get by, even in first year. You might be able to pass Calculus 1 just by attending lectures but you have little/no chance in Linear Algebra and Calculus 2 if you don't spend many hours working on the problem sets. Calculus 2 has a 60% fail rate since they changed the assessment.
I think your perspective on Uni needs to shift before you embark on that next part of your life. 4 months might be enough before Uni starts in March or maybe you need a whole year.
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Yeah the main thing I'm asking is if there are any long term 'effects' if I simply do nothing at all during my first year next year and just get 40s/50s?
Also for the record, I'm pretty sure 40s is a fail.
At least a lot of people who get 45s have to repeat the subject so yeah.
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Unfortunately you'll realise that things don't get better at uni...Everything counts for more, you have to study even more consistently, and even getting 80+ can be challenging. Lots of people slack off in first year and regret it in the later years. Like, if a Biomed student got 50 in first year bio...think about how much trouble they'll have in anatomy, micro, biochem etc in second year. Most subjects at uni provide foundations for the next one you'll do. Once you fall behind at uni it's very difficult to catch up, it's like battling an avalanche.
So why would you make more work for yourself in later years? If you're paying $700 for each subject make it worth it
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After 13 years of schooling I'm pretty much over everything study related; having to constantly be forced to a routine, those long hours of studying, stressing over tests.
Like some of the others have said:
1. The routine isn't as strict generally. You can still have lots of room to specifically manage the course the way that you prefer. You'll be in the mood if you can do it at your own style and pace etc.
2. You have a massive holidays ahead to really chill it out, probably the most relaxed holiday you'll get for a long, long time. Because it's post-VCE, most are in the mood to relax.
3. First year should be about getting used to things, the lifestyle, studying habits and in general getting the fundamentals.
4. The stuff can be interesting as well. If you're going to take a course at least try to enjoy it. If you do that then you'll probably find it less of a drag.
5. LeviLamp loves efly.
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After 13 years of schooling I'm pretty much over everything study related; having to constantly be forced to a routine, those long hours of studying, stressing over tests/exams, etc.
So I'd like to have a break but I don't want to take a gap year, because that's just a waste of a year of your life
Um, I hate it when this is done badly and condescendingly, so I'm going to try to NOT do it like that, sorry... but I really just want to say that I think you're thinking about that the wrong way :(
The only thing that's a waste of your life is doing something that brings you no pleasure and brings the world no benefit. Everything else is just LIFE. And you never get even a day of it back.
When people say that taking time out, or switching careers/degrees, or dating someone just casually, etc, is 'wasting' their life, I kind of want to ask when "life" will *start*? Where are you going? And if years of your life aren't about actually enjoying living, if they're just a journey to somewhere better or proper or real... well, when and where does all that 'proper' stuff start?
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The MRob-Dog, spittin' truth all the way to Alabama.
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The only thing that's a waste of your life is doing something that brings you no pleasure and brings the world no benefit. Everything else is just LIFE. And you never get even a day of it back.
When people say that taking time out, or switching careers/degrees, or dating someone just casually, etc, is 'wasting' their life, I kind of want to ask when "life" will *start*? Where are you going? And if years of your life aren't about actually enjoying living, if they're just a journey to somewhere better or proper or real... well, when and where does all that 'proper' stuff start?
**APPLAUSE**
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"The only thing that's a waste of your life is doing something that brings you no pleasure and brings the world no benefit. Everything else is just LIFE. And you never get even a day of it back.
When people say that taking time out, or switching careers/degrees, or dating someone just casually, etc, is 'wasting' their life, I kind of want to ask when "life" will *start*? Where are you going? And if years of your life aren't about actually enjoying living, if they're just a journey to somewhere better or proper or real... well, when and where does all that 'proper' stuff start?"
Amen to this.
I was brought up differently - everything I was supposed to do was a means to an end. And I often do ask - when does the real life start? One sometimes can be brought up with the notion that if they don't do as they are told they will have fun now, but will ruin their entire life later.
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And well, I totally understand it'd my loss if I simply got 50s in my first year but what if I were to put out a heap of time in my second year recovering my bases and filling up certain gaps?
To be honest with you, engineering/science is hard enough as it is even when you do have a good basis, and did well in first year. Why put yourself at a disadvantage already?
It's happened to me before. I didn't understand half the things we did in GMB, methods, physics and chemistry last year (didn't do much homework, I played footy/tennis most weekday nights then spent the rest of the night on Facebook..) I also nearly failed unit 2 chemistry and GMB as well, but I studied heaps over the summer holidays, stopped playing sport outside of school this year and pulled my head in.
VCE/school and Uni are different, yeah in school you might be able to slack off and then put hard work in and catch up. But once you get to uni you're putting that hard work in just to keep up with the course, you need to work your ass off just to be average. You will need these foundations for second year, and you won't have time to catch up on them in second year if you slack off in first. You hardly have enough time to get through the second year content.
Uni isn't easy, it's not VCE anymore, the amount of content and difficulty of content is a hell of a lot harder than VCE. You need to put the hard work in to get anywhere, and it just gets harder later on.
As other people have said, you get a really large holidays after VCE, it's long enough that you eventually get bored and want to get back into work. I don't see why you would purposely make it harder for yourself in the future (and which could result in you paying more as well).
If you do decide to do this, you'll probably get the wake up call after your results in first semester.
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Goodness me, I'm not even sure why you posted this thread in the first place, since you are so intent on rebutting and denying all answers to your question.
And well, I totally understand it'd my loss if I simply got 50s in my first year but what if I were to put out a heap of time in my second year recovering my bases and filling up certain gaps?
I'm not sure how many different ways this can be explained to you. You have had about 15 people who are already experienced at uni tell you that Uni is different to VCE. Uni is hard. There is a LOT of content in an Engineering major. In first year you will discover new study methods, new ways of learning, and how to learn for yourself as opposed to being spoonfed. If you don't learn these skills in first year there is a high chance that you are basically stuffed for the rest of your time at uni.
Your arrogance that you will be able to 'just catch up' in second/third year will be taken down a peg when you have to repeat every subject you took in first semester and have your whole study plan pushed back by a year. Hey, at least it might make your parents see that you should have taken a gap year instead.
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But could someone verify for me that employers don't look at your first/second year scores when considering applicants? Just something I'm wondering, thanks.
This can vary, but the most general answer is no. From what I hear, employers are more interested in work experience than grades, unless you are a 95% average or something (kind of freakish) in which case they'd probably take you even if you were a social numpty.
They generally do, however, look at your marks for third year and Masters level years, and your marks in these years can be dramatically affected by your effort in first year.
FAILS do look bad no matter what you're doing. If you fail a core subject in first year Science or Biomedicine for example, it's very VERY difficult to get yourself an interview to Medicine, for example. I know you are doing Eng not Med - it's just an example - although Engineering is not as harsh as that.
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Employers might look at the GPA/WAM, which can be influenced by first year marks even if they don't look at the first year marks directly.
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But could someone verify for me that employers don't look at your first/second year scores when considering applicants? Just something I'm wondering, thanks.
They won't specifically but since they contribute to your WAM/GPA you should aim to pass everything as a minimum. Most vacation/graduate programs require a 65+ WAM, so if you don't satisfy that it's unlikely you will proceed further in the application processes. Getting average grades in first year isn't the end though, you can always redeem yourself as long as you're willing to put in the effort.
You could study part-time during first year. So take 2 subjects instead of 4, or maybe even 3. It should give you more time as long as the timetables work out ok, but considering you'll be doing science it probably won't.
Also, I know plenty of people who do shit all during semester except the required assessments then cram it up during SWOTVAC and manage to pass or even get good grades. That's what I did in first year although with mainly commerce subjects. IMO it's only doable in first year since most of it is introductory/VCE stuff. But once you move onto 2nd year and you start extending on that knowledge it would be incredibly difficult to do that.
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Some of you guys don't understand though, I'm not allowed to take a gap year.
When I asked my dad if I could tale a gap year he replied, "Sure but you can find your own place to live, pay your own bills and buy your own food."
In other words, he'd kick me out of the house of I took a gap year, and obviously I can't simply live on my own like that with no (financial) support, so no thanks.
he's bluffing
also there's a difference in coming to your parents with a detailed plan of how you're going to spend a year not at uni (i.e. working, volunteering, travelling, internships etc etc) vs going up to your dad and saying "ey bro can i take a gap year please?"...
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he's bluffing
also there's a difference in coming to your parents with a detailed plan of how you're going to spend a year not at uni (i.e. working, volunteering, travelling, internships etc etc) vs going up to your dad and saying "ey bro can i take a gap year please?"...
In addition, OP: Would your parents rather you take a gap year (or even 6 months) or deliberately fail/ just pass classes during first year?
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Overall, apart from that and wasting money if I fail, there are no long-term effects right?
I heard employers don't really look at first/second year scores, mainly just your final few years', is that correct?
I think you misread everything everyone just told you.
There are long-term negative effects and you should not do this.
obviously I can't simply live on my own like that with no (financial) support, so no thanks.
Why not?
I agree with Truck's comments in this regard. If you just want to laze around the house playing GTA V for a year, then of course your dad's going to tell you to f off. If you plan a structured and productive gap year and you can prove this to him, he's more likely to listen. But remember that you're an adult now, and if your dad chooses not to financially support you in your endeavour, then you need to respect this and find your own way of doing what you want to do.
Source: Life. Took half gap year before starting my degree. Will take a post-grad gap year after finishing my degree. Worked two part-time jobs alongside uni. Financially support my family; I've not received any support from them since I was 18. This shit is possible if you have the determination to make it happen.
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Just saw this:
https://theconversation.com/study-links-a-gap-year-to-better-university-grades-18275
Good predictors of overall uni success? Seems to be how you go in first year, and... taking a gap year. Ha ha.
Mind you, I took no gap, shanked early uni a bit and am now doing my PhD, so...
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I know as a fact that you have to pass in order to 'move on', but what exactly happens if I simply scrape through with low 50%'s throughout my first year?
I'm aiming for a masters in engineering, but that's not until after my third year, so the first year shouldn't matter much right?
Also, what exactly happens if you fail a subject? Are there any long term implications?
While I take issue with a lot of what you said in your original post...I'm going to focus on this in my reply.
If you are hoping to get into postgraduate in a faculty as 'prestigious' as engineering, you have another thing coming if you honestly think you will be accepted with such a dismal average score. The competition for these courses is high, and often very high performing students are still not accepted.
While I understand that you are burnt out and that your parents wouldn't accept you taking a gap year, you might want to reconsider other alternatives.
Perhaps you could study part time for a year, while gaining industry experience in a science related part time job, or even just taking it a bit slower. If absolutely necessary your parents would not even need to know that you are reducing your study time, you could accept your offer and then apply as a part time student.
Just an idea!
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take a gap year - travel, work, live your life before you get stuck back into the daily grind of what is statistically most likely to be a life of mediocrity.
http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/time_off/index.html
Well this is depressing.
In seriousness though uni is a genuinely fun time. I've been stuck into extra-curricular right from the word go. I probably did more stuff outside of school and that schoolwork during high school too, but I've ramped it up at uni. As a result I didn't do as well as I probably could/should have in terms of marks but it was still a very productive time, and despite even more commitment this semester my grades have gone way up. It's all a learning experience, and if you try you can really find your niche in terms of the clubs you join, people you meet, etc.
The culture is great too, if you play it right. You meet fantastic people and learn things that the classroom can't teach you. And if you pick a course you're passionate about the content itself can be so rewarding too - you're really forced out of your comfort zone but you have the freedom to study in the way you'd like, and to an extent what you'd like. So doing badly I'd say is really a matter of choice and prioritisation. It's important to think of uni as a 3-5+ year process, and what exactly you want to achieve in that time and going forward.
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If you are hoping to get into postgraduate in a faculty as 'prestigious' as engineering, you have another thing coming if you honestly think you will be accepted with such a dismal average score. The competition for these courses is high, and often very high performing students are still not accepted.
I can vouch for this. My brother has been looking for eng jobs all year and just recently there was a job where 250 applicants applied, 10 received interviews and there is only one position.
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I can vouch for this. My brother has been looking for eng jobs all year and just recently there was a job where 250 applicants applied, 10 received interviews and there is only one position.
I know another AN member with a similar story.
She spent soooo long job hunting and ended up having to move overseas just to get an eng job, and now she's unhappy and homesick.
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Well.... This is very interesting....
The main reason why I wanted to get into engineering is because I thought that due to evolving technology and incredible advancements that are being made everyday, engineers would've been in a lot of demand.
And I also read in the Unimelb handbook that "There is currently a shortage of engineers in the industry..." I guess they omitted the "outside of Australia" part -.-
While there well may be a shortage of engineers at the moment, look at how many engineering students you have to compete against when you're job hunting. People from RMIT, Monash, every other university in Australia - they're graduating thousands of other competitive job-hunters every year. University isn't a system that simply gives you a job if you pass. You still have to be the best of the best in order to get a decent one. Same applies for other career fields.
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Unfortunately we are of a spoilt generation. We have not seen true recession or been through a serious depression and therefore we all have more money, more opportunity, and more means to get a good education.
This, in conjunction with the greed of the big universities, has meant a flood of graduates in all fields (not just engineering). There are very very few industries now that are booming in Australia where you are guaranteed a job, everywhere is competitive, so don't let that away you on Engineering. The only really stable choice of career at the moment imo is clinical medicine and even that is getting outrageously competitive.
Neither of our two major governments have done much to remedy this situation, and although this isn't just a problem specific to Australia, this country is falling behind on the innovation and development and design fronts in engineering, biotechnology, health, medical research, etc. We don't even have a Science minister for goodness sake; and here I was depending on the Liberal goverment to at least mean I have a job in Science or Engineering in 4 years time. So much for that!
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Sorry for the vaguely off-topic post. :-/
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The main reason why I wanted to get into engineering is because I thought that due to evolving technology and incredible advancements that are being made everyday, engineers would've been in a lot of demand.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-10/engineering-feature/4949360?section=wa
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I know another AN member with a similar story.
She spent soooo long job hunting and ended up having to move overseas just to get an eng job, and now she's unhappy and homesick.
She graduated with honours too (IIRC)
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I got an email from uni today saying summer scholarships are available for those interested. I check the requirements and all of them require high achievement in a specific unit, either second or third year unit. So even if you perform badly in the first year, you can always make a come back :)
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What the fu....
That was only posted 9 days ago as well...
Well, I guess nothing's ever certain, maybe it'll change again in another 5 years' time when I graduate haha
And it most likely will, but for better or for worse...you just can't tell!
Be wary of universities or any other body that inform you that a particular job or degree is in 'high demand,' or a 'sector for growth.' Remember a university or any other provider of tertiary education is a business, and you need to take their 'statistical evidence' with a grain of salt...they provide an exceptional service, but ultimately, their goal is to turnover a financial profit. Be careful ;)
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And in response to everyone else, I guess I'll have to deal with studying then, maybe I'll just try taking it easy throughout the semester but then simply cram my way through SWOTVAC for next year instead of studying consistently like in VCE :P
Studying constantly is a much better idea than trying to cram during SWOTVAC. And seriously, there are only 24 weeks of teaching a year at university, you'll have *heaps* of time to chill out and goof off even if you are a studious student.
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Well this is depressing.
In seriousness though uni is a genuinely fun time. I've been stuck into extra-curricular right from the word go. I probably did more stuff outside of school and that schoolwork during high school too, but I've ramped it up at uni. As a result I didn't do as well as I probably could/should have in terms of marks but it was still a very productive time, and despite even more commitment this semester my grades have gone way up. It's all a learning experience, and if you try you can really find your niche in terms of the clubs you join, people you meet, etc.
The culture is great too, if you play it right. You meet fantastic people and learn things that the classroom can't teach you. And if you pick a course you're passionate about the content itself can be so rewarding too - you're really forced out of your comfort zone but you have the freedom to study in the way you'd like, and to an extent what you'd like. So doing badly I'd say is really a matter of choice and prioritisation. It's important to think of uni as a 3-5+ year process, and what exactly you want to achieve in that time and going forward.
yeah haha i'm actually really excited for uni, now that i'm done travelling i just want to go already... it seems great. I just hate the mentality the OP is showing in this thread.
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I think its relatively undebateable that doing badly (yes, even outright failing, getting like 30-40-50) in your first year, in a FEW UNITS (definitely half or under of your enrollment, so 4 subjects) is recoverable. At Monash, i believe the academic penalties only kick in when you fail MORE than half your load in two consecutive semesters.
That said, it's obviously not a good idea. There are people who fail without even really aiming for it per se and they didn't really want it. It seems strange to almost ask for it. To answer your question without being an ass about it though, yes, its recoverable if you do poorly in a few.
I recommend (if you absolutely cannot take a gap year and are still adamant about relaxing next year) that you go 'part-time'. Only do two subjects a semester instead of four. Your workload will be greatly reduced. Just aim to do well in those two and reap the saved time.
The gap between VCE and Uni is huge. A lot of people get bored way before the end. You may come out of it much more relaxed than you anticipate.