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March 29, 2024, 06:36:32 pm

Author Topic: "Real subjects"  (Read 5192 times)  Share 

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dcesaona

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"Real subjects"
« on: November 05, 2018, 07:30:24 pm »
+12
Anyone else get aggravated by the obsession that year 11 and 12 students have over the whole "_____ is not a real subject"? Hahahah just wondering what everyone's thoughts about it are.
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kauac

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2018, 07:59:15 pm »
+14
I get what you mean. :)

I don't like it when people brush off food tech as 'just cooking'. There is literally like 1 or 2 dotpoints in the whole syllabus that says we have to cook, so it is not really that much about cooking at all - it is a lot more about the food industry, food business and nutrition. Like, I get that it may not be as academic as some of the other subjects I do, but I enjoy it, and shouldn't have to feel judged for picking a subject I enjoy over something that just 'scales well'. Sorry for the rant aha, but completely understand where you are coming from.  ;D
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beatroot

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2018, 08:34:45 pm »
+11
Totally 100% can relate to this !!

All the girls who did the science subjects or 3U Maths or Business Studies kept telling me to stop complaining about my Visual Arts major- can’t help it. Just because my major isn’t a business report doesn’t mean it’s nothing.

The whole mindset that creative subjects aren’t real subjects is ridiculous and needs to be changed in the future!
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Owlbird83

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2018, 08:44:19 pm »
+5
The chemistry and physics teachers at my school don't believe biology is a real science.
There's a poster of a meme on the wall in the physics room that has the caption 'physics cat likes to sit on something soft' with a photo of a cat sitting on a biology textbook.  ;D
I love biology but I find it amusing.

Sorry a bit off topic.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 08:46:06 pm by Owlbird83 »
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holky

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2018, 08:47:31 pm »
+4
I hate when anyone says my subjects aren't real, I get very upset but I always call CAFS a fake subject myself so idk
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owidjaja

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2018, 08:50:36 pm »
+8
Yeahh, I had to deal with this too.

Throughout Year 11 this guy in Year 12 gave me so much crap for doing SAC and Modern. He also just hated on people who did a lot of Humanities subjects and then go on a rant and be like "I hate money. Why are people so driven by money and politics. You can't even do much with science when there isn't money" etc. At some point, he ranted to me about how a lot of people are claiming that History Extension is one of the most difficult subjects and be like "Well obviously they're dumb because 4U math is harder than that" and would push me to pick up 4U math (when I was still in 3U math).
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katie,rinos

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2018, 09:37:13 pm »
+12
Definitely can relate.

I'd list off all my subjects and then once it got to hospitality I'd have ... 'oh, why are you doing that? Isn't that really easy? Your other subjects seem pretty academic!' Especially because it's a VET subject it was looked down upon by a lot of people (as being a way easier subject). I also had most of the class who didn't put a lot of effort into the subject so it did sometimes come off as a bulge subject. It was a subject that I really enjoyed and learnt a huge amount of new skills (& theory knowledge) so it definitely wasn't a waste (but it was incredibly annoying having to justify that to some people!).

 
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colline

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2018, 09:42:09 pm »
+14
Yep I get what you mean! I did VET Music last year and spesh kids at my school have a habit of reminding me that it isn't a ""real"" subject because one, it's VET and two, it's music (sorry spesh kids, I know most of you aren't like this). It gets compared to VCAL a lot too haha. After I got my results they were like "yeah nah but it's not a real subject so it doesn't count lol".

This year my ""non-real"" subject is dance XD.

But most of the time it doesn't matter because at the end of the day you get a better result with subjects you enjoy, even if they're ""fake"".

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jazcstuart

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2018, 10:37:42 pm »
+5
I think this can be really damaging, just because a subject is easier than extension subjects or chem for example, doesn't mean it's content is not interesting, useful or important. I do earth and environmental science and although it is treated like a bludge subject by many (at my school at least), I have felt that it is so relevant to the real world, and has taught me so many important scientific skills like interpreting information and evaluating scientific sources, more so than I learnt for the "real subject" of chemistry.

I hate when anyone says my subjects aren't real, I get very upset but I always call CAFS a fake subject myself so idk
In saying that this is extremely relatable, i have been known to tell people that earth is not a real subject. I generally do go on to say that it is actually interesting and useful, however this thread has made me think much more about not saying that in future.

While I do make dumb comments like this about my own subjects, I make sure never to say anything like this when someone tells me their subjects, because I know that subjects like senior science or hospitality which are often ridiculed DO have value, and I think it is so important not to make people feel bad about pursuing their interests.
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hums_student

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 11:00:53 pm »
+9
Aaah yes. The REAL subjects.
.
Confession: I plead guilty to this. Usually when people ask me what subjects I do I'd say something along the lines of "two STEM subjects and two drop kick subjects" and elaborate further if they're interested. (By drop kick subjects I'm of course referring to methods and chem. After all, we all know that history is the one and only real science ;D).

I wouldn't say that it's necessarily rude fight me XD, I would assume that if people are making comments about your so-called 'inferior' subjects they're probably doing so in a lighthearted manner. From personal experience, people who react to my subjects with "Ew, history? How are you cooked enough to pick that sh*t" generally think higher of my subjects than those who fake politeness with "Oh okay... that sounds cool?"
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dcesaona

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 01:09:17 pm »
+3
I agree with you all! I do drama, which essentially involves 2 major works AND having to work with others. I put sooo much effort into drama, having to juggle both my IP and my GP, which was tricky since I was stuck with people who didn't care about their marks at all, so I had to pull the performance forward and do the work for 4 people! I was relying on them for my marks and it was the most stressful and tiresome experience ever. I would cry about it basically every week. Then you have the essays and they're like english essays but tricker, because they involve analysis mixed with creative writing.

Sorry for my rant, but essentially the stigma: "drama isn't a real subject", "what a bulge", "it's so easy", really pisses me off because it's really not. I actually regret picking the subject, and always have.





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angewina_naguen

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2018, 08:05:37 pm »
+4
Little late to the party but definitely agree with you all  :(

I did nothing but creative arts and humanities during my HSC and I have heard the "___ is not a real subject" joke a ridiculous amount of times. I want to particularly complain about it being assigned to SAC because SAC was amongst my more high performing subjects and my results were treated as if  they weren't as special as ranking first in say a science  >:( I heard that joke the most with SAC and while I took it as that many times, I eventually just got sick of it. A PIP is no joke; I wrote more in my PIP altogether than I did for my Extension 2 poems. The content in SAC was also interesting and relevant to our world today. I didn't like hearing people joke about it that way, and I especially didn't like it when people actually thought about the subject that way.

I was also slightly disturbed when people thought it was a breeze to do VA or Music. It was definitely not a breeze  :'( The BOW is worth 50% of the external mark and Music 2 had essentially three mini major works involved (Music 1 has four). Both these CAPA subjects were really demanding on me physically and mentally. I burnt myself a few times during my artmaking and would be desperately trying to catch my breath after hours of rehearsing on the weekends. Combine the practical demands (those of which are really hard to meet and excel in due to the competitive standard and differing levels of natural ability/talent/hard work) with endless possibilities for what could be examined for content and you have two difficult subjects. The perceptions that they weren't "real subjects" and that they were "bludges" were really demotivating.

Part of the problem is the way NESA treats these subjects scaling-wise. While it's understandable that other subjects are academically more challenging, people who choose different subjects that cater to their academic abilities get the short end of the straw with really shifty scaling. Since this is largely attributed to arts, humanities and TAS subjects, the idea of them not being "real subjects" perpetuates from a system that doesn't recognise these disciplines as challenging enough, and thus worthy, to be rewarded with generous scaling. Until NESA revises this overarching system, nothing can be done.

I agree with you all! I do drama, which essentially involves 2 major works AND having to work with others. I put sooo much effort into drama, having to juggle both my IP and my GP, which was tricky since I was stuck with people who didn't care about their marks at all, so I had to pull the performance forward and do the work for 4 people! I was relying on them for my marks and it was the most stressful and tiresome experience ever. I would cry about it basically every week. Then you have the essays and they're like english essays but tricker, because they involve analysis mixed with creative writing.

Sorry for my rant, but essentially the stigma: "drama isn't a real subject", "what a bulge", "it's so easy", really pisses me off because it's really not. I actually regret picking the subject, and always have.


I hope this thread helps you realise that you're not alone! A lot of us have encountered this "real subjects" dilemma as recipients and are the first step to encouraging a more positive outlook on these subjects. I'm really glad I could express this because it has been bothering me for a while so just wanted to thank you for bringing this up in a supportive space  ;D
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dcesaona

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2018, 03:02:48 pm »
+1

Part of the problem is the way NESA treats these subjects scaling-wise. While it's understandable that other subjects are academically more challenging, people who choose different subjects that cater to their academic abilities get the short end of the straw with really shifty scaling. Since this is largely attributed to arts, humanities and TAS subjects, the idea of them not being "real subjects" perpetuates from a system that doesn't recognise these disciplines as challenging enough, and thus worthy, to be rewarded with generous scaling. Until NESA revises this overarching system, nothing can be done.


This is sooooo late now but I just read this and wanted to say that OMGGG. I honestly couldn't have said that better myself!! The "bludge" subject labelling literally stems from scaling: low scaling = not hard. We really do get ripped off because our subjects cater to OUR abilities, just like the stem subjects cater to other's abilities. Major works are painfully subjective and involve copious amounts of doubt, stress, drain, thought and hours. 60% of my drama course was a major work and 50% of art was too. It's exactly like you said. I almost feel disappointed at NESA for undermining the amount of hard work that goes into these subjects. It's almost like we're being mentally and physically exhausted for nothing.

Quote
I hope this thread helps you realise that you're not alone! A lot of us have encountered this "real subjects" dilemma as recipients and are the first step to encouraging a more positive outlook on these subjects. I'm really glad I could express this because it has been bothering me for a while so just wanted to thank you for bringing this up in a supportive space  ;D

And I'm glad the topic has been brought up too! I'm glad that other people feel so strongly about this and bring up their worries and concerns. And, although this is a stretch, I hope that one day nesa will recognise this 'flaw' in their system, because it is counter-productive and leads to many students feeling resentful of their subjects (when education is supposed to encourage the absolute best from its students).


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EEEEEEP

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2018, 03:44:05 pm »
+1
Anyone else get aggravated by the obsession that year 11 and 12 students have over the whole "_____ is not a real subject"? Hahahah just wondering what everyone's thoughts about it are.
"Arts", "Sociology" is not a real subject, "Music" is not a real subject etc.... (/S)

The same generalisation applies. Most of the time , the reason that they say that it is not a real subject is that parts of the subject can be:
- Abstract: Music and society, a lot of it involves ideas can be how the reader interprets them! Feeling, society interactions, impacts on society etc!
- Creative/Fun: Coming up with surveys, making music, drawing
- "Easy": It's just drawing bro, It's just playing music bro.

All subjects are "real", all subjects involve a lot of hard work, whether it be writing, drawing, compositions, and analysis. Notice that I do not make mention of "difficulty". Difficulty is subjective, and thus can't be considered as part of the equation.

God damn, doing a long extension English Story takes (A LOT OF WORK), with lots of editing and revising. Composing a piece of art (that can take a few months in itself). You get the point  8)

My thoughts? Agree to disagree and/or tell them to shove it.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 03:47:29 pm by EEEEEEP »

Jocoaster

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Re: "Real subjects"
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2018, 05:07:12 pm »
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I think it stems from more societal perceptions too, because once people leave high school arts get shit on for not being "real" degrees and having no job prospects in the future. STEM subjects tend to be more competitive because the demand I would assume is higher and coming from an Asian background, Maths and Science are definitely valued more than creative writing or drawing for example.