Do you believe in the whole VCE process?

[SarahEve]

I'm just curious. Do you think it's fair? Would you prefer using the American system, or any other system? Do you think it'll change? I mean I'm not sure how I feel being ranked against other students but I guess every system has strong and weak points to it. I don't really know what to think.

[Joseph41]

Interesting question! Hoping to see lots of responses!

IMO:

Do you think it's fair?
Tough one. I didn't think so when I was studying VCE - now I think it's pretty solid tbh. Could improvements be made? Probably, but I can't think of a better system, really.

Would you prefer using the American system, or any other system?
I don't know much about the American system - are you familiar with it?

Do you think it'll change?
Personally can't see it changing significantly for a number of years.

[PhoenixxFire]

I don't think that the atar is fair, but I don't think that it's the atar's fault.

Obviously people who have money to pay for private schools and tutoring etc. are at an advantage. But I don't think that's a problem with VCE, it's a problem with all of education, and with society in general. Coming from a privileged position is always going to give people an advantage over those who don't have that (money means you can pay for things that can help you do well in vce, but it can also mean that you don't need to work during high school, which in turn can give more time for extracurriculars which can help with scholarships etc., people who have parents who went to uni have an advantage, people whose parents know the right people to get their kids job opportunities or internships or good references etc. will have an advantage).

I don't think changing the way the atar works will fix any of that though.

I would like to see a change to how scholarships are awarded though - i think it's a bit ridiculous that it's recognized that some people faced hardships that should be adjusted for to help them get into uni, and yet atar requirements for scholarships don't include that adjustment.

I don't know much about the american system, but from what i have heard it sounds worse than ours.

[Sine]

I'm just curious. Do you think it's fair? Would you prefer using the American system, or any other system? Do you think it'll change? I mean I'm not sure how I feel being ranked against other students but I guess every system has strong and weak points to it. I don't really know what to think.

To determine whether it is fair - we firstly need to know what are they testing? which is whole different topic so won't get into that.

Do you think it's fair?
For me it's yes and no depending on your outlook on it. Yes, since all the facts *should* be known by the students about the system and study scores are scaled to standardise them to be comparable and all the rankings stuff is done mathematically so that you won't benefit or be impeded for choosing certain subjects. This is definitely fair for the most part but at the extremes, it breaks down e.g. subjects scaling over 50 whilst others don't  - needing a LOTE/Specialist Maths for a 99.95.

My no comes into play when you consider the students who are undertaking VCE and also the schools that they go to. Your school's resources/environment is always going to play a factor along with your own SES situation amongst many other things as others have already suggested.

Re: ranking
You will need a ranking based system for a lot of things (especially when the number of spots available for something is less than the number of people who wants those positions). I don't see a way around ranking students for university entry.

[codsta769]

IN TERMS OF THE HSC (NSW)- but similar to the VCE anyways

Do you think its fair?
I am actually a believer in the Australian education system due to all the factors that influence ATAR such as rankings, averages, school rankings, scaling etc. I am a believer in they way that everyone studies the same courses with the same syllabus and the same HSC exams in the entire state. This definitely makes it fair and gives everyone the same opportunity. I definitely want to see more support and money flow into our schools from the government (even though we have a liberal government for another 3 years). Australias numeracy and science world rankings are dropping and something needs to be done about if a country with such good opportunities and technology such as computers in classrooms is being beaten by developing countries who still use books in classrooms.

American or other systems?
For those of you who are not aware, getting into tertiary education in USA is different in terms of them not using ATAR ( a state wide ranking) to gain entrance to Uni/College and is instead a combination of your in school performance and a University test called SAT (or something like that) which the exam is directly related to your course. This is why in high school movies set in USA the kids are mostly celebrating and partying hard when they graduate high school because they dont have a HSC exam to worry about in the matter of weeks. However, the benefits and fairness of having a state wide ranking where everyone studies the same courses and sits the same HSC final exam outlast this in my opinion.

My parents are from India and over there for year 11 and 12, you chose a stream which is limited to how you well you perform in previous years. Examples of the streams are, and the subjects that you are likely to study (note that English and Hindi are compulsory as well) include:
- Engineering stream (Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics, Engineering subjects)- top of the class to enter this stream.
- Medicine stream (Biology, Chemistry)- top of the class to enter this stream.
- Arts stream (business, law, economics, history or pretty much any humanities stuff)- average marks for this.
- Creative stream (music, visual arts, drama)- pretty much anyone can do this.
A lot of people in India make the mistake of choosing for example, engineering and medicine streams when they are at the top of the class in previous years and not because they are passionate about it and end up failing. This seems like a good format to follow but in my opinion, this takes away the opportunity to have a diverse array of subjects similar to what i did in my HSC where although most of my subjects were humanities, i still had stuff like Senior Science and Maths part of the mix.

Do you think it will change?
I wouldn't like to see it change anytime soon till they come up with a better format that is not already being done in other countries at the present time. I definitely do not want to see exams turn into paperless exams and on computers. I think pen to paper for exams still should be kept for at least the next 50 years even though they were trialing it in NAPLAN a few years back.