COVID-19

[Sine]

Making this thread as a place for general discussion of this pandemic. Currently, there are 14.2 million confirmed cases and 600,000 deaths worldwide.

There is already a COVID-19 thread relating to it's impact to education made by whys. You can find it HERE.

As for developments today for Australia: Those in Metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire will be required to wear a face-covering when leaving home from Thursday. There will be fines of $200 for those who do not follow this rule.

[whys]

I’m glad they made wearing facemasks compulsory. I’m just not sure how this might go down for those who can’t afford it, or what you’re going to do if there’s no more at the store (if it gets to that point) but you have to travel outside for school/work.

All in all a much-needed call.

[TigerMum]

Also, children under the age of 12 will not be required to wear a face mask.

[Sine]

I’m glad they made wearing facemasks compulsory. I’m just not sure how this might go down for those who can’t afford it, or what you’re going to do if there’s no more at the store (if it gets to that point) but you have to travel outside for school/work.

All in all a much-needed call.

Yeah, making sure everyone can get a face mask is a bit of a concern. Hopefully, there is some help to make sure that everyone can get access to them even if they can't afford it.

However, I think they went with the term "face covering" so they allow people to use things other than masks such as scarves and bandanas which are better than nothing if someone can't get a mask.

[turinturambar]

As for developments today for Australia: Those in Metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire will be required to wear a face-covering when leaving home from Thursday. There will be fines of $200 for those who do not follow this rule.

I've been interested in the discussion around masks since the US CDC (who had had similar guidance to Australia) flipped to recommending them (back in June?).  I suspect it's a good idea in indoor spaces where consistent distancing is difficult, like the recommendation here in Victoria last week (?).  However, my impression has always been that outdoors is considered much lower risk of transmission than indoors, plus in my experience it is usually much easier to keep appropriate distancing outdoors, and so I feel a blanket "outside the home" rule is probably going too far.

Particularly for exercise, while no activity is completely risk free, I have throughout assumed that it is very low risk when done solo and trying to keep distance from those encountered briefly on the way.  It is also much more likely to be an activity where wearing a mask is (in their words) "impractical" or, in my opinion, at least a more significant restriction than wearing it in a supermarket, and with much less benefit to the community.

One practical implication for me is this: I walk (or sometimes run) to the grocery store. If I understand correctly, masks worn for a period of time get a bit wet and become less effective, and that probably happens faster with exercise.    If so, wearing a mask to/from the grocery store would surely make that mask less effective in the grocery store - the place where I actually want it to be effective.

Oh, and one final concern is the possibility of masks making people feel safer than they actually are, and thus distancing less.  If you are wearing a mask and can keep further away, do (even the magic 1.5m rule isn't about guaranteeing you are safe, just about reducing the risk that you'll catch anything).

[whys]

Oh, and one final concern is the possibility of masks making people feel safer than they actually are, and thus distancing less.  If you are wearing a mask and can keep further away, do (even the magic 1.5m rule isn't about guaranteeing you are safe, just about reducing the risk that you'll catch anything).

The point of masks is exactly that - it doesn't guarantee your safety, but it's better than nothing, similar to the 1.5m rule.

Even though transmission risk decreases outside when compared to indoor environments, there is still some risk present. Sure, it's a mild inconvenience to wear a mask (especially the exercise thing), but it's much better than wearing none at all. I agree that masks should not be compulsory when exercising, however I think it definitely should remain compulsory in any outdoor environment. The virus can very easily hang around in the air if someone with the virus coughs/sneezes/talks, so wearing a mask can help prevent them from spreading it.

I'm actually all for wearing facemasks outside the home for the reasons I've outlined above. If the point is to minimise the spread of the virus, then this is a step in the right direction. I'm unaware if Vic/Aus is going for the elimination strategy or the suppression strategy, but either way, wearing face masks will help prevent some of the spread. Especially things like community transmission due to catching COVID from random people as you go about your day.

[K888]

One practical implication for me is this: I walk (or sometimes run) to the grocery store. If I understand correctly, masks worn for a period of time get a bit wet and become less effective, and that probably happens faster with exercise.    If so, wearing a mask to/from the grocery store would surely make that mask less effective in the grocery store - the place where I actually want it to be effective.

Oh, and one final concern is the possibility of masks making people feel safer than they actually are, and thus distancing less.  If you are wearing a mask and can keep further away, do (even the magic 1.5m rule isn't about guaranteeing you are safe, just about reducing the risk that you'll catch anything).

Have been wearing a mask in a physically active retail job for a few weeks with no issues. Idk what kind of heavy breathing people do to make their masks wet? If super concerned about your mask effectiveness, put a new one on at the supermarket, or maybe wear a scarf when walking to the supermarket and change to your surgical mask at the supermarket. The most important thing is that it's providing a physical barrier, and also reminding you to not touch your face. Might be time to switch your behaviours and opt to just walk to the supermarket if concerned about the implications exercise have on the effectiveness of your mask.

Honestly I've found people keep their distance better when wearing masks. I think it helps people remember the times we're in. Maybe it's because the customers who have been wearing masks are more cautious people, but I've found them much better at maintaining social distancing. And I noticed when I started wearing a mask at work that I was more vigilant about keeping my distance from people too.

[The Cat In The Hat]

As for developments today for Australia: Those in Metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire will be required to wear a face-covering when leaving home from Thursday. There will be fines of $200 for those who do not follow this rule.

What about people with respiratory issues? It's bad enough breathing normally when walking, this is going to make it terrible.

Oh, and one final concern is the possibility of masks making people feel safer than they actually are, and thus distancing less.  If you are wearing a mask and can keep further away, do (even the magic 1.5m rule isn't about guaranteeing you are safe, just about reducing the risk that you'll catch anything).

Very true - and that isn't even addressing my main concern which is how on earth am I supposed to breathe with these things on...

MOD EDIT: merged double post

[Sine]

What about people with respiratory issues? It's bad enough breathing normally when walking, this is going to make it terrible.

Those with medical reasons are exempted.

EDIT: for completion the reasons for not wearing a face-covering that I know of are: medical reasons, under 12 years of age, a professional reason, when it is not practical (e.g. running). For some reasons I think you still need to be carrying one to wear when you can.

[keltingmeith]

What about people with respiratory issues? It's bad enough breathing normally when walking, this is going to make it terrible.

Here's a source that agrees with Sine, and confirms that a mask should still be carried for situations when you can't physically distance. I imagine walking around without a mask will result in a fine unless you can provide a doctor's note or something, though, so I'd get into contact with your GP about this.

Particularly for exercise, while no activity is completely risk free, I have throughout assumed that it is very low risk when done solo and trying to keep distance from those encountered briefly on the way.  It is also much more likely to be an activity where wearing a mask is (in their words) "impractical" or, in my opinion, at least a more significant restriction than wearing it in a supermarket, and with much less benefit to the community.

One practical implication for me is this: I walk (or sometimes run) to the grocery store. If I understand correctly, masks worn for a period of time get a bit wet and become less effective, and that probably happens faster with exercise. If so, wearing a mask to/from the grocery store would surely make that mask less effective in the grocery store - the place where I actually want it to be effective.

Oh, and one final concern is the possibility of masks making people feel safer than they actually are, and thus distancing less.  If you are wearing a mask and can keep further away, do (even the magic 1.5m rule isn't about guaranteeing you are safe, just about reducing the risk that you'll catch anything).

You don't have to wear a mask when exercising, and instructions say that it's fine to not wear a mask outside if you're by yourself. You should still carry a mask with you (see above link) however so that it can be donned when you can't social distance anymore/have stopped exercising.

As for the points about complacency - I think this is a legitimate concern, and why the Government waited until now to actually put it in place. Like, it was obvious from the start that masks were likely going to stop the virus to some extent, even if they didn't know what extent. The problem is, if it's only 20% efficient, and people all of a sudden are way more comfortable not social distancing, then that extra protection is meaningless. I think they've decided to do it because the efficiency for two people wearing masks is high enough that even if they don't socially distance as a result, they still have more "immunity" to contagion.

And for those that don't think that PPE offering complacency is an issue: I've seen countless students get acid on their hands, but not doing anything about it because they're "wearing gloves". Gloves do not stop acid from burning your hands - in fact, plenty of acids will burn right through your gloves. The point is that the acid has to get through the glove before it reaches your skin, which gives you time to take off the glove and be safe - but even then, all it does is minimise damage, and you should still be washing your hand afterwards. People feel much less vulnerable when wearing PPE, so they partake in more risk-taking behaviour because they no longer perceive the risk as such.

[brothanathan]

No hat no play? No mask no play - end of story.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Asthma. Does that mean I have to wear a mask when, when I get out of breath, I can literally almost not catch my breath for quite a while, whatever amount of exercise I'm doing; it's bad enough just standing there in the train or whatever. That's what I want to know. I would like to be able to breathe outdoors.

[keltingmeith]

Asthma. Does that mean I have to wear a mask when, when I get out of breath, I can literally almost not catch my breath for quite a while, whatever amount of exercise I'm doing; it's bad enough just standing there in the train or whatever. That's what I want to know. I would like to be able to breathe outdoors.

Again - if you have medical concerns, you don't have to wear a mask. Talk to your GP to get a certificate if you can if you really want to be sure you won't be fined, but you'll be allowed to not wear your mask if wearing one is causing you to have asthma attacks. That's a reasonable reason to not have to wear a mask.

[The Cat In The Hat]

OK, thanks.

[JR_StudyEd]

I don't know if I'm being overly optimistic, but is there any good news?