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April 20, 2024, 06:09:58 am

Author Topic: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?  (Read 3310 times)  Share 

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heids

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http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/hsc-numeracy-and-literacy-test-will-divide-students-cause-anxiety-say-principals-20170321-gv32ig.html

What are your thoughts on this article?  Are concerns about these tests ridiculous and blown out of proportion (should everyone be able to pass a basic test like this), or is it truly something to worry about that will harm students?

All opinions welcome, could be a cool debate :D
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sudodds

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 07:23:37 pm »
+1
http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/hsc-numeracy-and-literacy-test-will-divide-students-cause-anxiety-say-principals-20170321-gv32ig.html

What are your thoughts on this article?  Are concerns about these tests ridiculous and blown out of proportion (should everyone be able to pass a basic test like this), or is it truly something to worry about that will harm students?

All opinions welcome, could be a cool debate :D

I'm not that well researched on this - but I know my parents are really worried about it in regards to my younger bro. Being bad at maths runs in the family unfortunately  :-\
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Joseph41

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2017, 05:29:44 pm »
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I don't really get it - what's the rationale behind this?

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Aaron

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2017, 05:39:06 pm »
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I did a similar test back in December last year to qualify me as a teacher. I feel like it is the role of the teachers to embed literacy and numeracy elements into their classes. In my opinion, this test is completely pointless (my opinion is the same regarding the test I did for my MTeach).

Quote
"I would say that if a student doesn't have a minimum standard of literacy and numeracy by the time they are in year 12, then we really should be looking at the syllabuses if there is such a problem," Mr Teys said.
I have to agree from an ed perspective.
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Joseph41

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2017, 05:42:38 pm »
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I did a similar test back in December last year to qualify me as a teacher. I feel like it is the role of the teachers to embed literacy and numeracy elements into their classes. In my opinion, this test is completely pointless (my opinion is the same regarding the test I did for my MTeach).
I have to agree from an ed perspective.

Regarding the test you did, why do you see that as pointless?

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Aaron

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2017, 05:49:13 pm »
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Regarding the test you did, why do you see that as pointless?

Because to be admitted to a masters degree in teaching other people, one would assume that they have competency in basic literacy and numeracy. IMO I see the test as a political thing if anything, so the government can say 'hey, we're doing something about education' (even though the questions are very similar to what you would see in the Year 9 NAPLAN). When I did it, I felt like the only group disadvantaged in this case were the international students who are studying in Australia and had to sit it to graduate (which tbh is fair enough).

Going back to HSC now.. it's really a similar story. One would expect that students pick up this knowledge throughout their schooling (as I said above). It is the responsibility in my opinion of teachers to ensure that students' literacy and numeracy are adequate. NAPLAN occurs at Years 3, 5, 7 and 9 - which gives indications of literacy and numeracy anyway regarding each student.. I don't see the purpose of this one.

It just adds yet another test to the requirements of schooling.

Anyway, just my thoughts on this.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:57:32 pm by Aaron »
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jamonwindeyer

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2017, 06:16:44 pm »
+2
Going back to HSC now.. it's really a similar story. One would expect that students pick up this knowledge throughout their schooling (as I said above). It is the responsibility in my opinion of teachers to ensure that students' literacy and numeracy are adequate. NAPLAN occurs at Years 3, 5, 7 and 9 - which gives indications of literacy and numeracy anyway regarding each student.. I don't see the purpose of this one.

I totally agree, and that's why (at least to my understanding) this test is only if the minimum standard isn't met in the Year 9 NAPLAN test. Like, if you meet the requirement in Year 9, you don't sit the test - The test is the extra opportunity to meet the standard.

I see the point of the issues raised with this test, but on an abstract level I do think that if you are graduating with a HSC, you should meet a basic literacy and numeracy standard. Ditto for the test you took for Masters Aaron. Like, clearly, you should pass it. But I like that someone who couldn't pass it by then wouldn't be able to teach.

Having a quick look at the sample reading test, some of the requirements of the questions seem to be:
- Being able to read a sign and recognise the behaviour required of that sign
- Being able to garner basic facts from a job advertisement
- Being able to follow a given procedure in order

This seems perfectly reasonable. I honestly don't think anyone should be able to receive a HSC if they can't do these things. And if they can't, it represents a serious failure not on their part, but of the education system.

For the sample numeracy test:
- Estimating original prices of items based on sales
- Basic subtraction to calculate remaining kilometres until a car requires servicing.
- Reading basic detail from graphs
- Identifying streets perpendicular to other streets
- Geometry based problems

For me, some of the numeracy questions don't sit well because they test definitional knowledge - Like, what a similar rectangle is, what perpendicular means - Rather than skills based stuff like subtraction, reading scales, etc etc.

For the writing test, it is just a 500 word response on a broad stimulus. It seems to be marked on relevance, grammar, spelling, syntax and logical flow of ideas/thoughts. I don't see a huge issue with requiring a student to be able to produce a basic piece of writing, requiring the marking scale is fair and realistic to what skills are actually necessary in day to day life.

So I suppose in principle, the idea is sound. I think there should be minimum literacy and numeracy standards and you can do well in the HSC without some of these right now. Ensuring everyone graduates with these basic skills, imo, is a good thing. And the requirements, on the whole, seem fair - But I do think the numeracy test will be divisive. Even I, in a STEM degree, don't give a damn about similar shapes or polygonal geometry. I think perhaps adapting the NAPLAN to have a separate section/subset that tests the purest of mathematical skills, rather than knowledge, could be a beneficial change. They already do calculator and non calculator sections, so doing this would not be a huge administrative burden on the students. One section tests basic skills, one tests knowledge. You could even give them a calculator for basic skills because everyone has calculators in the real world - If they can read data, understand basic numerical concepts and know what calculations to perform for what purpose - Send em through :)

heids

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2017, 10:45:26 am »
+4
Jamon has pretty much stated my point of view on this.

I don't think this is a huge hurdle that a large percentage of students will fail, it's mostly basic questions that you really NEED to be able to answer.

For the people that will be able to complete HSC, this test shouldn't be significantly anxiety-provoking (and if it is that seriously needs assessing) as they should be able to pass it.

Anxiety-provoking, challenging things are a part of life anyway, and need to be faced.

I think *not* having standards that are required for people to enter HSC is a bigger issue - setting someone up for failure by sending them through HSC when they can't do it is very unfair.
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coolbook

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2017, 11:23:10 am »
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There's really no benefit for tests like these, because they cause stress, which is really harmful in school.

jamonwindeyer

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2017, 11:26:52 am »
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There's really no benefit for tests like these, because they cause stress, which is really harmful in school.

Unfortunately, life is stressful. Like, the HSC is stressful. VCE is stressful. You can't protect against stress completely - And I think this test (or at least the idea of it) is a happy medium to ensure that graduates have basic literacy and numeracy standards  :)

coolbook

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2017, 11:27:53 am »
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Unfortunately, life is stressful. Like, the HSC is stressful. VCE is stressful. You can't protect against stress completely - And I think this test (or at least the idea of it) is a happy medium to ensure that graduates have basic literacy and numeracy standards  :)
Do these tests have any value in reality?

jamonwindeyer

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2017, 11:33:14 am »
+1
Do these tests have any value in reality?

Yes - They ensure that you can't get a secondary qualification without being to express yourself clearly, comprehend things you are reading, and figure out how much you are actually saving when you buy something on discount - Basic skills stuff. Ultimately, as long as the level of standard is carefully considered to be appropriate, it is definitely appropriate. Of course students can have their strengths, but I personally believe that every HSC graduate should meet minimum standards in literacy and numeracy. Having your HSC implies that basic level of academia, and I think it is good that we are starting to make sure students have that by the end of high school :)

coolbook

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Re: New literacy and numeracy tests required to enter HSC: your opinion?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2017, 11:37:03 am »
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Yes - They ensure that you can't get a secondary qualification without being to express yourself clearly, comprehend things you are reading, and figure out how much you are actually saving when you buy something on discount - Basic skills stuff. Ultimately, as long as the level of standard is carefully considered to be appropriate, it is definitely appropriate. Of course students can have their strengths, but I personally believe that every HSC graduate should meet minimum standards in literacy and numeracy. Having your HSC implies that basic level of academia, and I think it is good that we are starting to make sure students have that by the end of high school :)
Fair enough 8)