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March 29, 2024, 04:52:57 am

Author Topic: Your thoughts on co-ed education?  (Read 4297 times)  Share 

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Joseph41

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Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« on: March 29, 2017, 06:09:54 pm »
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There have been some interesting articles recently.

Sydney private school Barker College goes fully co-ed after 126 years
Quote
A Sydney private school will transform itself into a fully co-educational campus after more than a century of predominantly single-sex education.

Barker College, on Sydney's north shore, will become fully co-ed in 2022 from kindergarten to Year 12 in a bid to prepare its students for the realities of life outside the school gates.

It is at least the third historic NSW boys' school to become co-ed in the past decade, after St Andrews Cathedral school in 2008 and The Armidale School earlier this year.

The risk associated with sending your child to a single-sex school
Quote
Single-sex education offers no academic advantages but may lead to the development of gender stereotypes and sexism, a respected American psychology professor has revealed.

According to Professor Diane Halpern, past president of the American Psychological Association, recent analyses of same-sex and co-educational schooling failed to find any advantages of single-sex education.

However, Prof Halpern said research did show people become more stereotyped in their beliefs about other groups when they are segregated, and co-educational schools teach children essential life skills for interacting with the opposite sex.

What are people's thoughts? I've never been exposed to anything but co-ed, and I really don't think I would have wanted to be. But I respect that people have different opinions on this, so - have at it! What do you think?

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2017, 06:22:16 pm »
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I went to an all-boys school for all of high school and I think co-ed is a lot more natural and balanced. Single-sex schools are definitely a thing of the past and perpetuate archaic values, I also wouldn't be surprised if they engendered sexism although youth are generally socially left wing. I think the reason they still continue is because a lot of the top-performing schools are single-sex, however I think the fact that they are single-sex is not the reason they are top performing. In my personal experience of all-boys schools I haven't really suffered from the fact that there are only boys, I've always been reserved so I've managed to avoid any confrontations with the immature testosterone charged mobs and kept to my own friendship group, so I don't have any strong feelings about the subject.
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Joseph41

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2017, 06:25:20 pm »
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I went to an all-boys school for all of high school and I think co-ed is a lot more natural and balanced. Single-sex schools are definitely a thing of the past and perpetuate archaic values, I also wouldn't be surprised if they engendered sexism although youth are generally socially left wing. I think the reason they still continue is because a lot of the top-performing schools are single-sex, however I think the fact that they are single-sex is not the reason they are top performing. In my personal experience of all-boys schools I haven't really suffered from the fact that there are only boys, I've always been reserved so I've managed to avoid any confrontations with the immature testosterone charged mobs and kept to my own friendship group, so I don't have any strong feelings about the subject.

Interesting thoughts! Thanks. :)

What sort of archaic values do you think, for example, all-boys schools perpetuate? Did you feel that with your own school?

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Quantum44

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2017, 06:54:49 pm »
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Interesting thoughts! Thanks. :)

What sort of archaic values do you think, for example, all-boys schools perpetuate? Did you feel that with your own school?

Mainly being absurdly authoritarian about ridiculous things, particularly regarding uniform. They have people stationed at every gate before and after school to check people have their socks up and shirts tucked in. Not to mention the fact that you can't wear your jumper to and from school, still don't know why. They took away the table tennis table from the year 12 common room and guess what? They're now having wrestling and boxing tournaments. Good job...

Muck up day virtually doesn't exist, it's been made so tame it might as well not happen. Every funny joke we put in the school magazine has to be taken out because it could be offensive.

There's a lot more I could mention but can't think of right now.

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Aaron

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2017, 06:59:05 pm »
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I'll keep it brief:

My background: i'm currently on my last placement about to graduate with an MTeach

I think it's really important to recognise that males and females learn differently and at different rates. I have certainly witnessed this on my rounds. So in that regard, I think that a single sex education is beneficial, as it allows targeted programs to cater for how these young people learn. However, if a school goes down this path, there has to be opportunity for interactions with the other as well (whether they are a co-ed school that has single-gender classrooms, or partnerships with an opposite gender school for example).

My own personal opinion is that co-ed education definitely is beneficial - but like any sort of system, has both its advantages and disadvantages. It's about balance.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 07:00:55 pm by Aaron »
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Joseph41

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2017, 07:04:38 pm »
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Mainly being absurdly authoritarian about ridiculous things, particularly regarding uniform. They have people stationed at every gate before and after school to check people have their socks up and shirts tucked in. Not to mention the fact that you can't wear your jumper to and from school, still don't know why. They took away the table tennis table from the year 12 common room and guess what? They're now having wrestling and boxing tournaments. Good job...

Muck up day virtually doesn't exist, it's been made so tame it might as well not happen. Every funny joke we put in the school magazine has to be taken out because it could be offensive.

There's a lot more I could mention but can't think of right now.

Do you think that's a co-ed or otherwise thing, though? Like, you've pretty much described my school almost to the word. The uniform thing, the jumper thing, the muck-up day thing, the magazine thing - all the same. I guess the only differences there would be the table tennis thing and the wrestling/boxing thing haha. (So many things!)

Did your school have any interaction with other schools? Like, did it have a sister school or something like that? I've always wondered how those relationships work.

Thanks again for your thoughts. :)

I'll keep it brief:

My background: i'm currently on my last placement about to graduate with an MTeach

I think it's really important to recognise that males and females learn differently and at different rates. I have certainly witnessed this on my rounds. So in that regard, I think that a single sex education is beneficial, as it allows targeted programs to cater for how these young people learn. However, if a school goes down this path, there has to be opportunity for interactions with the other as well (whether they are a co-ed school that has single-gender classrooms, or partnerships with an opposite gender school for example).

My own personal opinion is that co-ed education definitely is beneficial - but like any sort of system, has both its advantages and disadvantages. It's about balance.

Ooh interesting! What sort of differences have you noticed in how variously gendered students learn? :)

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Quantum44

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2017, 07:39:15 pm »
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Do you think that's a co-ed or otherwise thing, though? Like, you've pretty much described my school almost to the word. The uniform thing, the jumper thing, the muck-up day thing, the magazine thing - all the same. I guess the only differences there would be the table tennis thing and the wrestling/boxing thing haha. (So many things!)

Did your school have any interaction with other schools? Like, did it have a sister school or something like that? I've always wondered how those relationships work.

Thanks again for your thoughts. :)

Yes, those aren't exclusively single sex school things, but being at a single sex school feels very archaic. We technically do have a sister school but there really isn't any formally organised opportunity to interact apart from the very occasional optional event that no one really cares about. Although I do know schools there are some schools that schools that handle this better and even share VCE subjects with their sibling schools, which would be cool.
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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2017, 08:41:14 pm »
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As someone currently enrolled in an all girls school, I can honestly say that perhaps the greatest benefit is the fact that we're constantly made to feel empowered as young women. We're told that as long as we set our mind to it, there's nothing we can't possibly achieve. While it does become repetitive and quite corny to hear at times, it really does help to boost one's self esteem and to help you realise that you do matter. I'm not sure if the same occurs in a mixed school, but it really is drilled into us here.
Best example of this was during some HSC information night when one of our (male) teachers told us that if we didn't do to well in the HSC, we could always marry a rich guy and become successful. Immediately after this, our (female) pastoral coordinator walked up to the stage and told us that we were not going to do such a thing, since were were going to become successful women through our own actions.
I also find the learning environment to be one where everyone feels comfortable in. Everyone is open to discuss just about any topic while in class some of which definitely wouldn't be discussed in a mixed environment. We're also pretty chill most of the time. Our muck up days are child's play when compared to some of the stuff other schools have done. Also, and I'm definitely not speaking for everyone, many often feel relieved that there isn't the pressure of having to impress other people on a daily basis. I hear some people saying every so often that they're glad they can just do their own thing without having to worry about others. Again, same can't be said for everyone.
As someone mentioned earlier, both genders learn at different speeds, so there's another benefit.
That's just my two cents worth. I honestly enjoy being in a single-sex school and find it beneficial. This view does differ from person to person though.
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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2017, 09:38:10 pm »
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This debate is really interesting, particularly for me as someone who went to an all girls school, and I can definitely see both the positives and negatives to it.

100% agree with what Thebarman said about female empowerment at girls schools (actually had a whole paragraph written on this, but you summed up my points perfectly and a lot more succintly haha).

In terms of the negatives though, I do feel like going to a girl school and not having that regular, everyday encounter with boys can lead many girls to put the male gender on a bit of a pedestal so to speak, and particularly as this is such a formative time for people I do consider this a significant drawback. I know many parents send their daughters to all girl schools to avoid having crushes, boyfriends, relationship dramas and just boys in general distract from study, but in many ways I feel like the opposite occurs. Guys (at least within the first few years - it definitely subsided in senior school) were treated like mysterious, magical creatures, whereas I feel at a co-ed school girls would develop a more neutral attitude. I was lucky that I stayed in contact with most of my male friends from primary school so this kinda stuff didn't affect me too much, but for a lot of my friends, being "just friends" with guys wasn't really an options - that weird tension would always seem to be there (even if it was one sided). Though I'm sure "who do you like!" was still a popular topic of conversation at a co-ed school, and relationship dramas occurred, a lot of the girls at my school would go further and seek male attention wherever possible. School dances with a boy school were treated like speed dating, and it was also not an uncommon occurrence to hear about the "hot teacher". Now again I'm sure this kinda stuff happens at co-ed schools too - but for an unfortunately high number of girls at my school (particularly in the younger years) "hot teacher" pretty much extended to any male teacher under the age of 40. As you can imagine - not the most healthy or appropriate of crushes, and also really awkward for a lot of the teachers at our school (gossip was also a pretty big problem which just exacerbated this situation further). Talking to some other friends who went to different all girl school, this was a pretty consistent theme, and I think it comes down to the fact that a lot of these girls have no one else to "pin" their puberty driven affections onto, sans maybe celebrities.

I feel like this can foster a really unhealthy attitude towards relationships if boys are constantly put on this pedestal. I know many girls at my school who stayed in shitty relationships, and did things that they shouldn't have done to impress guys, just because they felt like they wouldn't be able to find another boyfriend, and a lot of young girls who resorted to seedier avenues to gain male attention (I will never forget the time I saw a year 8 using tinder on the school bus).

Again, this is all coming from someone that only experienced single-sex education through high school, so some of these assumptions might be completely wrong haha, but yeah those are my 2 cents - definitely a complex, interesting issue.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 10:23:40 pm by sudodds »
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elysepopplewell

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2017, 12:42:44 am »
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But I think that archaic values such as misogyny, have the potential to stick maybe even sub-consciously in these environments; same-sex schools and their exclusivity on the basis of gender may even potentially be encouraging it. While, misogyny is frowned upon by and large, I feel that conversations surrounding sex would be more eccentric among students at a same-sex school due to the removal of the other gender at the school. Understandably, the schooling environment limits them from having to communicate to the other gender, and I think this breeds a sort of imbalance on their views with regards to women or even men in the case of all-girls' schools.

Just adding an anecdote to this..

I debated against other schools in Year 12, and one school we debated against was a single-sex school for males (there was no single-sex school for females in our pool for debating). This particular debate was really interesting. The topic was something about scientific discoveries..I don't remember the wording. The team line for the opposing team was "Scientific discoveries pave the way for mankind." And I was so triggered and looking to tear apart their team line so we'd win (obvs), so in one of my refutes I said their argument is weakened by half if science only benefits men. If they meant humankind, their argument is broadened and strengthened, but they repeated "mankind" at several points in their arguments so it was no slip up. They also referred to males as "men" and females as "girls" throughout the debate. Which was not just the students, their teacher opened the debate with "good luck to you men" and turned to us, "good luck to you girls." (I didn't go to an all-girls school, we only had one male on our debate team and he was ill that week). The linguistic difference in girls/women and boys/men was clear, and as peterpiper suggested, this is probably subconsciously circulating the linguistic power between men and women. I don't think that anyone intended to alienate women with "mankind" or to denote us with "girls" when they were "men," but it was very clearly present.

In saying this - I also debated against an all-male school team who go to a Catholic (possibly Opus Dei) school, and they were a delight to debate against. There was no such presence of linguistic connotations and everything was respectful and academic and really fun for a Friday night debate. I think each school (co-ed or not) has a particular culture: some sporty, some social justice, some academic, etc. The aforementioned school was a sports-focused school. Maybe this plays into it more than the fact that it was a single-sex school. Of course I'm not a student at that school so I don't know what happens in internally - this is coming from an outsider.

Anyway, I'm happy I went to a co-ed school. I had a boyfriend in Year 7 and 8, then the same boyfriend from year 9 until last year, and it was never a distraction from my studies. Maybe I see this positively because of the light that Susie has shone - there was no magical, exciting experience of being with male friends, all of my friendships were healthy, and ~average~ so when I had a boyfriend it was really just an extension of a friendship (seeing as dating in high school before you have a license is hardly "dating"). I'm really thankful that I had male friends to find refuge in at recess and lunch when my female friends were driving me crazy, and I was especially thankful for my female friends when my male friends couldn't care less about studies, but my female friends were all quite studious.

Adding to Aaron's comment... one of my teachers said she is moving her 9 year old daughter from a co-ed school to a single-sex school because her daughter always complained that the boys were immature in behaviour (primary school) and she didn't like being in a class where discipline was always being applied instead of learning. Apparently she's much happier at the single-sex school. So I suppose recognising a behavioural and academic progression difference in single-sex schools has merit!

All of this is anecdotal...I have no facts or stats on it all. Just my experiences :)
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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2017, 04:46:58 pm »
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In terms of the negatives though, I do feel like going to a girl school and not having that regular, everyday encounter with boys can lead many girls to put the male gender on a bit of a pedestal so to speak

Interesting post! Just on this point, do you think (anecdotally or just gut feeling) that it ever goes the other way? I'm not sure how to explain it but like, a reverse pedestal (groan)?

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2017, 08:41:06 pm »
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Interesting post! Just on this point, do you think (anecdotally or just gut feeling) that it ever goes the other way? I'm not sure how to explain it but like, a reverse pedestal (groan)?
Hmmmm I'm not too sure! Basing this purely off of the way my male friends both from co-ed and single sex schools act around girls, I don't really feel like there is a reverse pedestal so to speak. I do think that there is still a prevailing view that you can't be "just friends" with the opposite sex - however I think the over-arching attitude is different, particularly in regards to commitment (massive generalisation, but from what I could see, most girls I knew were looking for a boyfriend and exclusivity, whereas the guys I knew were looking for something a lot more casual, which is obviously going to affect the way they view things). Idk again this is based off of purely anecdotal evidence so probably not accurate at all, but just from what I have seen :)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 08:45:02 pm by sudodds »
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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2017, 08:43:53 pm »
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Hmmmm I'm not too sure! Basing this purely off of the way my male friends both from co-ed and single sex schools act around girls, I don't really feel like there is a reverse pedestal so to speak. I do think that there is still a prevailing view that you can't be "just friends" with the opposite sex - however I think the over-arching attitude is different, particularly in regards to commitment (massive generalisation, but from what I could see, most girls I knew were looking for a boyfriend and exclusivity, whereas the guys I knew were looking for something a lot more casual, which is obviously going to affect the way the view things). Idk again this is based off of purely anecdotal evidence so probably not accurate at all, but just from what I have seen :)

Interesting points! But bugger - I knew I didn't explain that well haha.

By "reverse pedestal" I meant like, putting another gender below one's own rather than above.

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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2017, 08:51:41 pm »
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Interesting points! But bugger - I knew I didn't explain that well haha.

By "reverse pedestal" I meant like, putting another gender below one's own rather than above.

Ohhh hmmm. Potentially, I can definitely see how something like that could happen. Like I can see how an all-boy school could really foster that misogynistic lad "yeah the boys" environment which could definitely lead to something like that occurring - viewing girls as purely potential hook-ups/sexual objects. But amongst my male friends I never witnessed anything like that - in fact one of my closest friends went to an all boys school and he's almost too respectful (I didn't think that was even possible - but trust me it is)!
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Re: Your thoughts on co-ed education?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2017, 09:47:07 am »
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Co-ed is generally better