ATAR Notes: Forum

National Education => Admissions tests => Selective Schools Admissions Tests => Topic started by: disone on October 03, 2016, 12:47:32 pm

Title: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: disone on October 03, 2016, 12:47:32 pm
Which school is better?
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: Calebark on October 03, 2016, 01:16:02 pm
In terms of performance, MHS (5th in state, 2015) beats SCHS (51st in state, 2015) by quite a margin. In terms of school culture, I am afraid I cannot help here. However, this and this  may prove to be somewhat helpful.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: spectroscopy on October 03, 2016, 02:54:29 pm
they're very different. if you read around the threads you might get an idea. academically mhs ranks higher but in 2014 schs had a student get 99.95 and mhs didnt.

you can do equally well at either school, it just depends what sort of person you are. mhs has lots of mandatory extra-curricular activites, kids get involved, its more strict but people do well. its motivating and its sincerely about more than just marks

at SCHS you have all the same opportunities as you do at MHS but its much more chill and basically no one is forced to do anything.
in year 12 there would be people who would barely go to school and when they did they wouldnt be in class they would study in the public spaces, and in class you see people using their phones and on their laptop (being quiet) and in general its alot more chill and requires self motivation. people would even go in like semi-casual clothes like just the sport top, random trackie pants and a non schs hoodie (LOL)
 
if you are self motivated or quite different in terms of your study habits and hobbies etc then maybe schs is more flexible but MHS is a probably a better environment to be in overall. some people go to schs and get lazy and then end up with atars in the mid-low 80's. mhs motto is "more than just marks" which is pretty reflective of the school.

*i've got an example for how schs is flexible and how it could either allow you to be way better than a conventional class would allow or get distracted and do worse. my mate went there and every class he had, he and his mate would walk into class, stay for the first 5 minutes when the teacher updates everyone on deadlines and outlines what they'll be learning today, then the two of them would just leave the classroom and go to one of the private study rooms and just do work by themselves with no teacher supervision, separate from the rest of the class, for the rest of the period. this rooms are like separate from the main areas so you could go in there and be watching funny videos and laughing and doing no work or you could be in there smashing through exercise after exercise of methods work. its really up to you what you do with that flexibility.
if you get into the school you obviously aren't dumb so people don't really abuse the freedom, but there is the odd case of people who just never do work.

but the flexibility is great if you're the kind of bloke who likes to sit there in a solo environment or with a couple of friends and just brainstorm for subjects or smash through the work without the distractions of a normal class or having to go at the pace of the teacher. this is particularly good for high achievers and shit who dont want to have to sit in class for 20 minutes of teachers teaching when they already know what is being learnt. or on the flip side you might be quite far behind and the teacher will be teaching stuff that builds up on ideas that you don't know, meaning that its going in one ear and out the other. but if you can study by yourself you can use that time to catch up instead of trying to build a roof on a house that has no walls.


i feel like in general the MHS environment moulds you into a certain type of person. they tend to study hard, be outgoing, confident, reasonably sporty, etc.
SCHS doesn't mould you into anything, it gives you the clay and says mould yourself into whatever you want and we will accomodate

just my 2cents havings lots of mates from both schools over many different cohorts

EDIT: Added the paragraph with the red asterisks
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: vox nihili on October 03, 2016, 03:55:13 pm
I can't speak for MHS, but I've done a little bit of work at SCHS and liked it there. It almost has an American high school feel about it and the students there seem to get on really well. I've always got an overwhelming sense that the students there are funnier than the average student too, but no idea why hahah. Probably comes down to the fact that the school retains a fairly laid-back vibe, despite having students that clearly work really hard.



Just another little tidbit. The demographics of the schools are fairly different. For all intents and purposes, MHS resembles an elite private school with respect to its demographics. More than 70% of its students come from the highest quartile of earners, whilst only 4% come from the poorest quartile.
At SCHS it's 49% and 8% respectively. There are also more students from LOTE backgrounds at SCHS than at MHS.
I'd caution you against looking into that too much, but it's worth consideration.

Also worth knowing that MHS is a larger cohort (~1300 v ~700 I think) and has more money to throw around (about 4K more per student)
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: The Usual Student on October 03, 2016, 05:00:47 pm
In terms of performance, MHS (5th in state, 2015) beats SCHS (51st in state, 2015) by quite a margin. In terms of school culture, I am afraid I cannot help here. However, this and this  may prove to be somewhat helpful.

I don't disagree that MHS is more academically proficient then SCHS.
But I Just want to clear something up, that ranking system is total BS, they don't scale any of the study scores when they calculate which schools are ranked higher. For instance, lets say we have two school.s
School 1: A lot of kids do spesh and arguably more competitive subjects
School 2: A lot of kids do further and legal and HHD
 
School 1 will end up getting fewer raw 40s then school 2 just because the popular subjects at those schools are much harder. Once you scale the scores, it becomes much more fair as school 1's  less then 40 scores rightfully scale up to the 40 range. In essence, a 40 in further is the same as a 30 in spesh, so for all the kids getting 30 in spesh they should be also taken into account. However, this system doesn't do that. All it does is count up the number of 40s and put it as a percentage of all the students :P So a school that gets like 50 or so 40+s in further (Eg Glen Waverly or Hailebury) will be placed at the same rank as a school that gets 50 or so 40+s in spesh...... 

MHS gets ripped off by this ranking system since they have a pretty strong methods and spesh cohort from my understanding. I reckon MHS would be close to number 1 if you accounted for scaling, if not probably macrob or some other school that has a strong language or spesh cohort.

IMO, if you want to academically compare the two schools, look at the MEDIAN atar for both of them and other stuff such as percent of students above 99 or 90 atars.
SCHS (2014 couldn't find 2015)
- 38% over 90
- 90% over 60
- i am too lazy to find their median atar but it should be like in their school newsletter or something

MHS (2014)
- 16% over 99
- 54.7% over 95
- 74% over 90
- median atar is 95.45





Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: disone on October 03, 2016, 09:25:55 pm
Cheers dudes, but I am just really pissed at not getting into MHS but getting into SCHS  :(
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: dankfrank420 on October 03, 2016, 09:38:21 pm
It really doesn't matter to be honest, I did well enough for Melb High but went to SCHS instead because of location.

Teachers are super chill as spectroscopy said, in year 12 they don't really "push" you to do anything. If you wanna study that's up to you, but teachers aren't really going to check up on your work in general. I dunno about melb high, but it seems they like to get people involved in extra-curricular stuff alot. SCHS is alot more laid back (except the current principle, that's another story altogether)...

I think comparing schools for what ATAR you'll get is pointless. Regardless of which school you go to, if you work hard you will get the ATAR you want - if you don't work hard you'll get a poor ATAR (regardless if you go MHS or SCHS).

Oh and SCHS is co-ed if that matters to you.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: The Usual Student on October 03, 2016, 09:41:37 pm
Cheers dudes, but I am just really pissed at not getting into MHS but getting into SCHS  :(

don't worry man, like in my opinion, the select entry schools all offer the same opportunities to do well. You are not going to do any better then you are at SCHS or at MHS. You can say the school culture pushes you to study but like in all honesty, if you are motivated already, you will do fine.

Work hard and it won't matter what school you go too!
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: jin0016 on October 05, 2016, 07:51:09 pm
Cheers dudes, but I am just really pissed at not getting into MHS but getting into SCHS  :(
I can understand you. Although Im the opposite. I want to go to SCHS but my parents put MHS for me.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: jin0016 on October 05, 2016, 07:53:14 pm
I don't disagree that MHS is more academically proficient then SCHS.
But I Just want to clear something up, that ranking system is total BS, they don't scale any of the study scores when they calculate which schools are ranked higher. For instance, lets say we have two school.s
School 1: A lot of kids do spesh and arguably more competitive subjects
School 2: A lot of kids do further and legal and HHD
 
School 1 will end up getting fewer raw 40s then school 2 just because the popular subjects at those schools are much harder. Once you scale the scores, it becomes much more fair as school 1's  less then 40 scores rightfully scale up to the 40 range. In essence, a 40 in further is the same as a 30 in spesh, so for all the kids getting 30 in spesh they should be also taken into account. However, this system doesn't do that. All it does is count up the number of 40s and put it as a percentage of all the students :P So a school that gets like 50 or so 40+s in further (Eg Glen Waverly or Hailebury) will be placed at the same rank as a school that gets 50 or so 40+s in spesh...... 

MHS gets ripped off by this ranking system since they have a pretty strong methods and spesh cohort from my understanding. I reckon MHS would be close to number 1 if you accounted for scaling, if not probably macrob or some other school that has a strong language or spesh cohort.

IMO, if you want to academically compare the two schools, look at the MEDIAN atar for both of them and other stuff such as percent of students above 99 or 90 atars.
SCHS (2014 couldn't find 2015)
- 38% over 90
- 90% over 60
- i am too lazy to find their median atar but it should be like in their school newsletter or something

MHS (2014)
- 16% over 99
- 54.7% over 95
- 74% over 90
- median atar is 95.45
Yeah and SCHS is a relatively new school so it still has to develop. I mean look at Nossal. It was really far back in rankings at the start when it opened and now its like 12th or something.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: disone on October 06, 2016, 07:38:45 pm
I can understand you. Although Im the opposite. I want to go to SCHS but my parents put MHS for me.
Why didn't you want to get in MHS?
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: jin0016 on October 07, 2016, 03:56:35 pm
Why didn't you want to get in MHS?
I liked SCHS better. It looks like it has a better environment and the building is so much nicer.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: vox nihili on October 07, 2016, 04:57:52 pm
I liked SCHS better. It looks like it has a better environment and the building is so much nicer.

Possibly debatable :P

(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/33138195.jpg)
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: undefined on October 07, 2016, 05:02:31 pm
Possibly debatable :P

(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/33138195.jpg)
I think he means newer or more modern :P
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: jin0016 on October 07, 2016, 08:30:02 pm
I think he means newer or more modern :P
Yeah its more newer and has better tech
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: disone on October 14, 2016, 12:00:12 pm
 :( I don't know why, but I still think that Melbourne high is way better than Suzanne Cory.  :(
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: Eric11267 on December 13, 2017, 10:13:20 pm
While I can't say anything about Suzanne Cory, as a recently graduated student, I'll say that MHS really isn't that great. The standard of teaching is quite poor, so don't think that you would get a 'better education.' I've found that a large majority of the cohort tend to seek tutors and tuition service to make up for the lackluster teaching, which would explain why MHS tends to do well in VCE. However, I do not know if this applies to Suzanne Cory as well, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: tchaikno6 on December 13, 2017, 11:55:19 pm
I agree With Eric11267. Like the teaching is just overall not at where it is expected to be. BUT the school culture makes up for a lot of it. getting really close to mates at the point that you feel the brotherhood (ikr kinda cringey) legit means so much more than what you can learn in VCE. And even if you don't find the teachers to be great, there are enough friendly people in the cohort to help you out and teach you what you need to know.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: MIMIMIMIME on December 14, 2017, 01:43:35 am
Both Eric11267 and tchaikno6 have nailed it pretty well tbh.

Teaching sucks ass at MHS especially the biology department. Like, please don't do that subject at MHS.

The reason MHS does well in VCE is because you just picked up a lot of academically successful kids and threw them in one place. On top of that, many seek tutors which isn't that hard to find especially because many graduates offer tuition services to those currently attending MHS for fairly cheap rates.

The best things about MHS is by far the culture and if you believe that you can self learn/are happy to find tuition, then it's probably worth it.

Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: pi on December 14, 2017, 02:15:23 am
As someone who went through the selective school system with MHS a few years ago, I think the most important thing about the school you choose should be the culture. Having just finished my degree in medicine, when I look back on my time at school, funnily enough I actually don't think about the good or bad teaching, the amount of practice exams I did, or how I wish I studied more or less - I think about my fellow students and the good times we had. And when you eventually come to 5 year reunions and the like as an Old Boy, those are the anecdotes we're sharing and having a laugh about, not ones about academia. Please keep that in mind.

But of course, academia is important. And I'd be lying if I didn't say it was my #1 priority when I was at high school. Is the teaching the best at MHS? Probably not, it certainly wasn't amazing when I was there. I had some lackluster teachers, but also many brilliant and inspiring ones. As with any public school, it's a mixed bag. But I don't think the teaching needed to be amazing, because the cohort was amazing. The cohort drove each to success, it was an incredibly collaborative environment that didn't leave people behind, and indeed many went through to get 99+ ATARs with no or minimal tutoring (unlike the top NSW selective schools!). If you have a good teacher, that's great, but if not you still have each other and a culture and history of success and excellence that you don't get in many other schools in the country.

I'll share one example of what many of you youngsters would consider to be 'bad teaching' and how that's a rather narrow viewpoint. One of the teachers who made the biggest impact on me was someone who I probably learnt nothing academic from, he barely taught anything in class and spent most of the time sharing various life experiences and telling jokes. This, especially in retrospect, was incredibly valuable, it's not often you are forced to sit in front of someone as they impart life advice and create a fun atmosphere. Why was this so valuable? This teacher understood who he was teaching. He was teaching a driven cohort who he knew would study for hours at home regardless of what he said, indeed for many of us school was some of the most 'fun' we got on a regular weekday. So during class, and within reason, we could put our hair down in class. He'd help anyone that needed help, explain anything that needed to be explained, but didn't lecture us on maths like a traditionally 'good teacher' would. Don't let 'bad teaching' guide you away from MHS, it's often a blessing in disguise.

A final comment on this business of median ATARs and tutoring. Median ATARs are great to look at if you plan on being a median student. If you don't plan on being a median student, then the proverbial sky is the limit. Looking at median ATARs, in my opinion, is not useful for that reason. Tutoring, as has been alluded to earlier, is commonplace. Undoubtedly, it's common in any selective school and any top-tier school in Victoria. Personally, I did got some tutoring only for year 12 English (which I don't think helped much!), and did fine. I'm far from a genius. Many people did better than me with less tutoring. Tutoring is there if you need it, but you don't need it to do well. Keep that distinction in mind. Don't get sucked in to paying for some freshly graduated 99+ ATAR uni student who thinks they're all that to teach you what the textbooks already spell out, what you should get sucked into is maintaining your own personal drive to work hard, persist, and improve. That's what matters at the end of the day.

That stuff aside, I implore you to look outside of the academia of school before making your choice. MHS' unofficial motto is "more than just marks", and it truly lives up to that. It's from getting involved in extra-curricular activities that you'll form your fondest memories that you'll treasure for decades. You won't find another public school in the state with the resources that MHS has for sports, clubs of any sort, music, cadets, house competitions, and so forth. And to have all of those resources housed in a literal castle on a hill so close to Melbourne - amazing. If you have an interest or skill, MHS has a place for you. Not only a place, but a place for you to excel and enjoy.

Whichever you choose, I wish you the best. Honour the work.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: jenni_zh90 on December 14, 2017, 08:56:40 am
Will NHS & SCHS ever beat Macrob & MHS in terms of VCE results and ranking?  :-\ :-\

If people keep putting Macrob & MHS as first preference, will NHS & SCHS ever get a chance to beat them?
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: amorphous on December 14, 2017, 12:34:21 pm
Will NHS & SCHS ever beat Macrob & MHS in terms of VCE results and ranking?  :-\ :-\

If people keep putting Macrob & MHS as first preference, will NHS & SCHS ever get a chance to beat them?

bump, cos i'm curious too : P
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: pi on December 14, 2017, 01:09:03 pm
Will NHS & SCHS ever beat Macrob & MHS in terms of VCE results and ranking?  :-\ :-\
bump, cos i'm curious too : P

The year 2097 is when the transfer of power will take place.

Seriously, does it matter? :P (hint: it doesn't matter)

You want to increase the ranking? Then you work hard to give yourself and your cohort the best chance of doing well. There's no secret recipe here. It will happen when it happens if it happens.
Title: Re: Suzanne Cory High school (SCHS) vs Melbourne High School (MHS) which is better?
Post by: Gogo14 on December 14, 2017, 09:23:25 pm
Its also important to take travel time into consideration. If you live close to Suzanne,then its probably more convenient for you to go there than MHS and vice versa. Otherwise if you live close to one school and choose the other, it may take you 2 hours to get to school.
Right now, my opinion is that MHS is academically better than SC, but they will probably be the same in the future.
just graduated from MHS this year, the kids there are the best people I have ever met. There is a really strong sense of belonging at the school and while the school is competitive, it is in a friendly way. Students there are more than happy to help you out so having a trash teacher isn't really that much of a problem if you know who to ask (my friends carried me this year). Generally they save the good teachers for the senior years, but there are some teachers that are dodgy. Also MHS has a stronger reputation (probs because its older)

Never been to SC, so can't really talk much about it. Here are the main things to consider when choosing the school: 1. school community 2. travel 3. opportunities within the school (like co curricular) 4. teaching quality and ranking