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April 19, 2024, 02:31:11 pm

Author Topic: Educate me. A thread to learn things.  (Read 13123 times)  Share 

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Bri MT

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2017, 04:59:26 pm »
+1
Why the -0.5? :(

-The marking uses highly subjective terms, making self-improvement more difficult than in other subjects
-I feel that some topics could have more depth brought into them  ie. register as more than just level of formality
-This may just be because this is the subject I am least confident in exam-wise, but I feel that the exam tests written expression more than analysis and understanding

prickles

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2017, 05:28:51 pm »
+2
So this is kind of a random/dumb question, but are there different keyboards for nationalities that use different symbols for letters? It's kinda hard to explain, but take Chinese for example. Do their keyboards have their characters on the keys? Or do they use the same keyboard that I do?
Is my explaination completely confusing? Or am I completely ignorant?!  :-[

K888

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2017, 05:47:56 pm »
0
So this is kind of a random/dumb question, but are there different keyboards for nationalities that use different symbols for letters? It's kinda hard to explain, but take Chinese for example. Do their keyboards have their characters on the keys? Or do they use the same keyboard that I do?
Is my explaination completely confusing? Or am I completely ignorant?!  :-[
Not really answering your question as in France they use the same alphabet, but I know that in France, they use an AZERTY keyboard - the location of the A and Q are swapped, and the Z and W are swapped too, as are a few other punctuation symbols. I think from memory, the M is also next to the L.

Not sure about other countries or languages, though!

EEEEEEP

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2017, 05:51:37 pm »
+1
So this is kind of a random/dumb question, but are there different keyboards for nationalities that use different symbols for letters? It's kinda hard to explain, but take Chinese for example. Do their keyboards have their characters on the keys? Or do they use the same keyboard that I do?
Is my explaination completely confusing? Or am I completely ignorant?!  :-[
For Chinese, there is mandarin and Cantonese.

Mandarin sort of represents the words/pronounciation. Cantonese is the character that represents the pronunciation.



In word or on any device

...
For arabic


TLDR:
- You type the mando (pronunciation) .. Using the typical english letters that you see on a keyboard..and then you can pick the character (canto) that corresponds to the pronunciation.

Such a system would exist for languages that have characters and letters too.

Languages like Chinese and Arabic literally have thousands of characters and/or letters. It would be impossible to have it all on a keyboard. You aren't ignorant at all =)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 06:01:20 pm by EEEEEEP »

vox nihili

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2017, 07:18:40 pm »
+9
For Chinese, there is mandarin and Cantonese.

Mandarin sort of represents the words/pronounciation. Cantonese is the character that represents the pronunciation.

(Image removed from quote.)

In word or on any device
(Image removed from quote.)
...
For arabic
(Image removed from quote.)

TLDR:
- You type the mando (pronunciation) .. Using the typical english letters that you see on a keyboard..and then you can pick the character (canto) that corresponds to the pronunciation.

Such a system would exist for languages that have characters and letters too.

Languages like Chinese and Arabic literally have thousands of characters and/or letters. It would be impossible to have it all on a keyboard. You aren't ignorant at all =)

This is not at all the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin...they're different languages. Mandarin is the "official" language of China and is what people usually associate the word Chinese with, whereas Cantonese is spoken in Hong Kong and the surrounding province (Guangdong). In Australia, there is roughly equal numbers of Cantonese and Mandarin speakers, though most of the people our age who speak Chinese speak Mandarin.

The things that you've called Cantonese are characters and the English letters that you called Mandarin are called "pinyin". For thousands of years, Chinese speakers only wrote in characters; however, since the mid-20th century they started using pinyin to help them remember the pronunciation of the characters and, with the advent of computers, phones etc, to type. Pinyin is entirely phonetic, meaning that how it is written is exactly how it is pronounced.

When you type in Chinese, you can write in pinyin and see the characters pop up (just as above when you typed in nihao). You see different predictive options and can scroll through lists of characters with that pronunciation, if you click a particular button. This is particularly useful for names. Otherwise, there is also a keyboard that allows you to draw the character in. This is handy if you want to work out how the character is pronounced. You might read a character somewhere and not know how to say it, or its meaning, so you can just draw it into your phone. Another option is to use keyboards wherein you effectively type strokes. These keyboards are really tricky to explain, but they essentially involve typing in the brush strokes you'd use to write those characters by selecting from a relatively limited list of strokes. As with the pinyin and the drawing, you'll get various options.



Other languages, as Kate mentioned, tend to have their own organisations if they use Romanised letters. Typically these are essentially QWERTY with very minor moderations. The French keyboard (AZERTY) is the exception to this rule because, well, they're French. Otherwise the Spanish keyboard is the same as ours with the addition of ń.

Interestingly, languages with writing systems similar to ours but different (e.g. cyrillic, Greek) are arranged fairly similarly to QWERTY too. For instance, on a Russian keyboard, the letter б is in the same spot as b, which is the sound that letter makes. Likewise in Greek, you find β on B because the letter B is derived from it (when in fact beta actually sounds like v).
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EEEEEEP

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2017, 08:08:07 pm »
0
This is not at all the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin...they're different languages. Mandarin is the "official" language of China and is what people usually associate the word Chinese with, whereas Cantonese is spoken in Hong Kong and the surrounding province (Guangdong). In Australia, there is roughly equal numbers of Cantonese and Mandarin speakers, though most of the people our age who speak Chinese speak Mandarin.


I understand where you are getting at  but I'm speaking from a Chinese people of view (which is far more complex).

In the view of Hong Kong there are only 2 language, (English and Chinese). Also there's also the element of politics. In China, they favour unity and thus, consider Cantonese, Hokkien and Mandarin as all dialects under Chinese. If you ask a lot of chinese people (mainlanders) they consider it all of the same language but of a different dialect.

While it is true they may ask foreigners or asian people "DO you speak  "Mandarin" or "Cantonese"?" (which one may imply as a different language).. they still consider it as the same language.   

It is a matter of perspective, from the view of many westerns and some HK people, they do consider them a different language,

Some websites and textbooks even consider Mandarin and Cantonese as the same language but as different dialects ... It is very complex.

According to some academic texts , Chinese is basically split up into many dialects, (2 being mando and Canto).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 08:20:45 pm by EEEEEEP »

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2017, 08:52:57 pm »
+2
So this is kind of a random/dumb question, but are there different keyboards for nationalities that use different symbols for letters? It's kinda hard to explain, but take Chinese for example. Do their keyboards have their characters on the keys? Or do they use the same keyboard that I do?
Is my explaination completely confusing? Or am I completely ignorant?!  :-[

You can also type in other scripts using a 'normal', English keyboard. There are programs to download where, upon pressing the activation button, whenever you press a letter on the keyboard, it'll convert to the corresponding letter. For example, on the Bulgarian one, pressing 'D' will make 'Д' appear.
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vox nihili

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2017, 09:04:30 pm »
+5
I understand where you are getting at  but I'm speaking from a Chinese people of view (which is far more complex).

In the view of Hong Kong there are only 2 language, (English and Chinese). Also there's also the element of politics. In China, they favour unity and thus, consider Cantonese, Hokkien and Mandarin as all dialects under Chinese. If you ask a lot of chinese people (mainlanders) they consider it all of the same language but of a different dialect.

While it is true they may ask foreigners or asian people "DO you speak  "Mandarin" or "Cantonese"?" (which one may imply as a different language).. they still consider it as the same language.   

It is a matter of perspective, from the view of many westerns and some HK people, they do consider them a different language,

Some websites and textbooks even consider Mandarin and Cantonese as the same language but as different dialects ... It is very complex.

According to some academic texts , Chinese is basically split up into many dialects, (2 being mando and Canto).

What you said wasn't from a "Chinese person's view". You said that Cantonese means characters and Mandarin means pinyin, which is just not true.

I'm not sure that many would argue that Mandarin and Cantonese are not distinct languages. Those that argue that they are the same language, and just dialects thereof, are probably getting lost in translation, seeing as they all come under the umbrella term of "中文“. Most people accept, however, that they are distinct, largely because Cantonese speakers can't understand Mandarin and vice versa.

Naturally, what defines a language is tricky and often has more to do with politics than anything else, hence Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian are all considered distinct languages despite being completely mutually intelligible; whereas, the various dialects of Arabic (some as distinct as say, French and Spanish) are all considered the one language. Those who seriously suggest that Cantonese and Mandarin are the same language are likely doing so out of a sense of national unity, not because they accept that the languages are similar—they're not. 
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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2017, 09:17:10 pm »
+1
Those who seriously suggest that Cantonese and Mandarin are the same language are likely doing so out of a sense of national unity, not because they accept that the languages are similar—they're not. 
I did make an error in saying that Cantonese are characters, they both do use the same characters but it's pronounced differently.

I respectfully disagree with you.

For the both dialects use the same words and phrases. Meanings are preserved across dialects (with slightly varying slang).  Written words are identical but the pronunciation isn't too hard to pick up.

Imo, it's like American English vs Australian English vs Welsh English. They are all dialects (yet it is still English). =)

prickles

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2017, 09:23:44 pm »
+1
Looks like I accidently started a debate/discussion  :D But thanks for all the responses! Just developing our opinionating skills  ;)

LifeisaConstantStruggle

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2017, 09:31:21 pm »
+5
I did make an error in saying that Cantonese are characters, they both do use the same characters but it's pronounced differently.

I respectfully disagree with you.

For the both dialects use the same words and phrases. Meanings are preserved across dialects (with slightly varying slang).  Written words are identical but the pronunciation isn't too hard to pick up.

Imo, it's like American English vs Australian English vs Welsh English. They are all dialects (yet it is still English). =)

For the case of Cantonese and Mandarin they're definitely more distinct compared to the different English dialects/accents, this is through common word usage, a lot of the grammar (which is very different), and slang as well.
For English even though the pronunciation differs the grammar stays pretty much the same, but Chinese is definitely a tough monster to slay. :)
Eg:
Umbrella in Mandarin is (雨傘 yu san) but the same word in Cantonese is (把遮 ba zhe) and many more examples.
Their degree in similarities cannot be equated to the differences between the different English dialects, or should I say accents. Yeah.

I realised that I'm adding to the complexity sorry :/ but yeah haha
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 09:32:59 pm by LifeisaConstantStruggle »
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vox nihili

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2017, 09:31:43 pm »
+4
Imo, it's like American English vs Australian English vs Welsh English. They are all dialects (yet it is still English). =)

Except it's not like that at all though, because the Americans/Australians/Welsh all understand each other; whereas, you send someone from Beijing to Hong Kong and they will not understand a word spoken to them.


You're right in a sense that written Cantonese is effectively the same as written Mandarin, with a lot more flexibility with word order and obviously different characters (they use traditional, not simplified like the vast majority of Mandarin speakers). It's not just a matter of picking up the pronunciation though. The word order is entirely different. The phonology is different. The words they use are different (I mean, the word for "to be" isn't even the same... 是 in Mandarin but 系 in Cantonese).

Looks like I accidently started a debate/discussion  :D But thanks for all the responses! Just developing our opinionating skills  ;)

hahah always the way on AN :) it's a good discussion though and hopefully haven't derailed the thread :D
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 09:39:06 pm by vox nihili »
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LifeisaConstantStruggle

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2017, 10:31:54 pm »
+2
But hey China has WAAAAY more dialects than that (8-10 families which branch to around 200, Cantonese and Mandarin seem to be the most popular because of influence and government lmao) and most of them are gradually going extinct (like I'm the only one in my generation of my extended family that can speak our village dialect because I took the initiative to learn) :( Mandarin works well as a unifying language, but with it we diminish the position of a lot of other Chinese languages and dialects that represent a form of culture as well (not all Chinese people have the same culture hey).
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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2017, 07:29:02 pm »
+2
yea i have a friend who only speaks wenzhounese at home with his family (he cant speak any putonghua) and he just can't communicate with people from anywhere other than wenzhou.

also apparently the best place to learn mandarin in China is in shenzhen because the city is one of (if not the) biggest destination for domestic economic migration as many people from out-of-province move their families there for work/better opportunity. Because such a HUGE population of the city isn't from that region (the population has EXPLODED over the last 2-3 decades, and most aren't permanently registered domestic migrants through the hukou system), everyone moves to shenzhen speaking their own dialect, so many people became reliant on using mandarin to communicate as the lingua franca and what has developed is one the most neutral, widely-understandable accents of the official language. Also having such a large migrant population that really heavily outnumber the people who are traditionally from the area helped make Shenzhen pretty much the only mandarin dominated city in guangdong.
People from beijing definitely have a very different accent, and shanghainese is pretty popular in shanghai (and of course half of guangzhous population have cantonese as their first language), leaving shenzhen being one of the best places to learn the language. Almost everyone I know who has gone to china speaking textbook chinese gets told they speak like a northerner/someone from beijing.

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Re: Educate me. A thread to learn things.
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2018, 11:13:28 am »
0
On Monday night, I forgot to set an alarm for quite possibly the first time ever. I usually wake up at 6.30am, but had been sleeping later the previous days due to the long weekend.

Without an alarm, I woke up at 6.28am.

I've heard similar things happen to a lot of people. Could somebody tell me if this is a thing, or just confirmation bias? Like, can you almost tell yourself what time you want or need to wake up?

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