VCE English Question Thread

[Adequace]

^ I decided a couple of days ago to start marking stuff (that is, from now onwards, not catching up on past ones); I've always thought I wasn't good enough, but while my marking won't be high calibre, hopefully it'll be still helpful in pointing out major issues.  So go for it occasionally, I'll give it a go if I have time.  Can't hurt if you post and don't get a response, anyway.  How about you try giving bits of feedback to others?  You'd learn a lot out of that yourself, and give the board a boost!

Anyway, PLEASE READ ALL THIS ADVICE as it is the most important thing I could ever say to a year 12.  You get way more out of the year if you work actively for yourself, rather than relying on being spoonfed or giving up because you're 'disadvantaged' by your SES/school/teachers/parents/situation.  I followed this advice for my 3 best subjects (which was why they became my top subjects), and felt totally on top of them; but I didn't for English ==> was completely unsure, confused and terrified; I kept harping on the fact that "I didn't know" and "I didn't have enough resources" (I hadn't really looked at AN, unfortunately).

OK, so.  I understand it's frustrating having limited resources (I couldn't afford to pay anything other than school fees for English), but the most valuable skill you can learn is being able to teach yourself with the resources you've got (actually, you have access to more than you think, it just depends on how you use it).  Because if you can learn what is required of a good essay, you'll then be able to see your own strengths and weaknesses by yourself.

• Read VCAA exam reports and know the criteria inside out
• Read through advice threads in the Eng resources thread, and at VCE study guides etc. (there's a ridiculous amount of free stuff if you just search for it!), and watch vTextbook; don't just read/watch, actively take notes
• Critically go through high scoring responses; break down their arguments into detailed dot-points; watch how they do topic sentences; steal phrases or ways of expressing themselves really clearly; go through how they're different to yours; and so on.  Pull 'em apart.
• Go through feedback given to other essays (i.e. read through the Compilation of Text Response/Context/Lang Analysis Feedback stickies in the Work Submission board).  In all probability, you will have fallen into the same pitfalls or have the same high points as some of the markers point out to other people.  You can learn SOOO much to apply to yourself!!! TAKE NOTES.  It's almost as good as direct feedback on your own, since Ned Nerb and Darvell gave great feedback.
• Read through Lauren's 50 in English, available for queries :) and this year's Q&A; sure, skip irrelevant stuff, but I tell you there is sooo much gold that you don't want to miss like I did last year.  And again, taken notes.

Essentially what I'm saying is, actively use your resources.  If you really try, you can teach yourself how to write a good essay, and what things to avoid.  You can teach yourself how to mark your own work and find your own issues.  (Never just write an essay without critically self-marking).  If you find a problem you can't solve, ask about it in this thread.  And use that occasional 'true' feedback from other experts to help you become even more of an expert!

Finally, try essay-swapping.  Give your friend an essay to mark, and you mark one of theirs.  Sure, it won't be the best feedback, but you'll be able to help each other; and actually, marking other people's work really helps you discover faults and try to come up with ways to fix them.

tl;dr (though I hope you did read ): RELY ON YOURSELF, and actively use the resources you already have to teach yourself: AN, high-scoring essays, feedback on essays in the WM&S board, Lauren's Q&A threads, etc.

P.S. Some day I will learn the skill of writing a short post.  Some day.

Well said!

Is this applicable to a Year 10 student? I've been trying to do what you've stated above and tried using their language used within their essays but I find that I'm trying to drastically write an essay that I'm capable right now. I also find that I can't fully understand interpret VCE study guides and then applying the knowledge becomes essentially impossible.

Additionally, I have an english exam in a week and it's a text response. I've decided to prepare earlier than my class since I don't think I'll be prepared if I go at my teachers pace. I've found a T.R structure Essay Formula- Text Response and will probably just follow this until the end of VCE. Good idea?

I've also lost my trust in my teacher and now find myself disregarding her information about essay structure as I think she's just trying to teach us how to write like a normal Year 10 student. Although, this could obviously work against me, should I just listen to her?

[heids]

Well said!

Is this applicable to a Year 10 student? I've been trying to do what you've stated above and tried using their language used within their essays but I find that I'm trying to drastically write an essay that I'm capable right now. I also find that I can't fully understand interpret VCE study guides and then applying the knowledge becomes essentially impossible.

Additionally, I have an english exam in a week and it's a text response. I've decided to prepare earlier than my class since I don't think I'll be prepared if I go at my teachers pace. I've found a T.R structure Essay Formula- Text Response and will probably just follow this until the end of VCE. Good idea?

I've also lost my trust in my teacher and now find myself disregarding her information about essay structure as I think she's just trying to teach us how to write like a normal Year 10 student. Although, this could obviously work against me, should I just listen to her?

This was intended for year 12 not year 10, but it's always an important thing, to take control of your own learning   However, you don't have to be at year 12 level until guess when... year 12.  Until then, you should be building up a solid foundation of smaller skills, rather than trying to jump beyond yourself immediately.  Don't try and be impressive before you've learnt the basics, this is what I did because I couldn't bear to turn out something boring/shallow/substandard.  It doesn't work.

These could include:
- Read more.  In general, i.e. I'm not telling you to read a million year 12 English essays.
- Vocab, expression, grammar etc.  Build up a vocab you're totally familiar with - i.e. you know exactly where it should be used and the shades of meaning.  Get teachers to criticise clunky or unclear expression.
- Writing with conciseness.  Learn to express yourself clearly and neatly; an exercise I found fun was writing a normal essay, recording the wordcount, and then editing it, trying to get the word count down as low as humanly possible while still retaining the same ideas.  You get to this mindset of 'come on, just onnneee word more...' and you learn lots of tricks for expressing things more concisely.
- Learn to embed quotes nicely. (1-6 words only).
- Learn effective methods of learning quotes, annotating a text, and researching and generating ideas.
- Analysis.  Make your stuff less descriptive and more meaty/insightful.  Develop skills with analysing quotes, characters, themes, literary techniques, and authorial values.
- Develop good time management.

I'm sure that formula is fine, but there's no set-in-concrete way.  Be willing to be flexible.  In the future, you'll learn a lot from reading other essays with different structures.  You can do whatever is best for you as long as it covers all aspects of the topic and involves deep analysis.  But for now, I'd stick to whatever structure your teacher gives.  Instead, make your essay stand out through deeper analysis (e.g. analyse literary techniques/structures, the author's values and message, and make more insightful discussion round themes and characters).

So, 'when in Year 10, do as the Year 10s do.'  There's no specific 'Year 12 Structure', and you're probably just learning a 'yes-yes-no' formula with TEEL in each paragraph.  That's fine.  It's not like that's a "wrong" structure and you'll need to do a sudden snap change when you hit year 12; you'll probably gradually develop your own more complex style of dealing with topics over time .

Hope I kinda answered your questions, I don't think this really did everything you asked
... anyway, if I'd had your perspective back in year 9-10, my year 12 life might have been a bit different.

[Apink!]

Hi everyone!

I’m in some serious, deep black hole right now that it sucking my life out. I am completely pathetically lost. I can’t develop paragraphs that will lead to the main contention I am arguing on. I don’t even realise what is wrong. I would really appreciate  it if you could give me a hand. I really wanted to succeed in English but it’s not as easy as I thought… btw, I’m trying to write an expository essay for Context.

So, this is a prompt I was working on which made me have a mental breakdown
Shared experience does not mean that people see things the same way.{VCAA 2011}

My contention: “Experience[ing]” and “[see]ing” things are two different ideas. Experiencing implies a passive flow of events that have come across a person whereas “see[ing]” is an active process in which we apply our filtered ideas and values to view our experiences.  Although people may across same situations in life and experience “shared” memories, it is inevitable that we as human beings cannot remember the same events in the identical manner because of this.


First paragraph:
T.S: ?
Second paragraph
T.S:
Third paragraph:
T.S:  *insert confused look here*

What can include in my first, second and third paragraphs so that my essay “builds up” to my contention and not just have each paragraph assigned for one evidence each to reinforce my contention? (I’m really lost on how I can do this, and an example might really clear this up)

Also what could I talk about with the contention I have?

I used to be those students who would designate main paragraph 1,2 and 3 just finding difference evidence all leading to the same idea which led to my contention. Now I find myself unconsciously doing this (even though I don’t  want to) and it’s really difficult to get it out of my system.  Even though I know what is required of me, I don’t know the how part and I would really appreciate your help!

Also I realised that one of my most problematic area in context is not having a contention or not really basing my essay on a contention. I do “explore” but without a contention which will probs guarantee a pretty bad mark. For example if I had this prompt:  “powerful control reality”

Paragraph 1: even though a powerful figure may “influence” reality, they cannot “control” it because there are realities in which others cannot change

Paragraph 2: Sometimes it is not even clear who is more “powerful”. Often, people control each other’s realities and it’s not necessarily influenced only by those who the society views as “powerful”

Paragraph 3:  Powerful people change people’s realities all the time! Hey just look at the government and stuff…

So I have ideas and I “explore” them. But as you can see it doesn’t lead to a CONTENTION ):(or at least I don’t think so) unless… unless… these three points all somehow magically combine together leading to a jaw-dropping contention which I didn’t know about because I’m just subconsciously an English genius (no).  So what my question is what am I doing wrong and how can I fix it?

I’m sorry for asking you this question, because I should know but I don’t… ): ):

p.s I finally understood weaving today! So thanks for that (:
p.p.s You probably realised I liked using p.s. btw I am sincerely sorry for asking so many questions ):

[Apink!]

Bump!

[vanessa14]

Does anyone have a structure for persuasive writing for context? I have no idea how to write a persuasive essay, and it seems like I've forgotten everything to do with context because I don't know where to start.

And for an imaginative/creative piece, how do we relate it to the main text we discussed in class? Does it have to relate to it, and be of a characters point of view, or can we just write a creative story relating to the prompt alone?

[Coffee]

Does anyone have a structure for persuasive writing for context? I have no idea how to write a persuasive essay, and it seems like I've forgotten everything to do with context because I don't know where to start.

The structure of a persuasive piece will depend largely on what form you choose to write in (e.g. speech, opinion piece, etc.) However, you will be required to create and build upon an argument so it should contain the following:

Introduction:

• Include a clearly stated contention

Body Paragraphs:

• Outline and describe the reasons to support your argument
• Evidence to support your claims

Rebuttal:

• Acknowledge an opposing point of view and explain why it is not vaild/a strong argument

Conclusion:

• Summarise your position and restate your contention and how you have proven it.

Remember to also use your persuasive language techniques!

And for an imaginative/creative piece, how do we relate it to the main text we discussed in class? Does it have to relate to it, and be of a characters point of view, or can we just write a creative story relating to the prompt alone?

For a creative piece, such as a short story, you should be drawing on your selected text in some capacity. For example, if you were studying Identity & Belonging and your selected text was 'Skin' you might choose to draw on this through the use of symbolism (e.g. doll, white/black, segregation, etc.) However, you should never explicitly state your text (e.g ...like in Skin where...) but rather represent the 'big ideas' overtly - make it obvious that your story relates to the context and the ideas studied in your selected text.

In relation to what you can write about, it's pretty open. You might choose to write an additional scene or rewrite a scene or write an alternative ending. You might choose to write through the eyes of another character or object. (Apparently a girl wrote a creative piece on 'Skin' through the eyes of Sandra's doll - it was very well received too!) Alternatively, you may choose to write on your own concept or idea while exploring the themes represented in your context (eg. For 'Skin' you might write a narrative piece about two chess pieces, perhaps a king and queen, who want to be together but are on opposite sides) - It's quite clear how this relates to 'Skin'!

[vanessa14]

Thank you so much! That was really helpful!

Remember to also use your persuasive language techniques!

Is there a specific way to include my techniques? I've only used a rhetorical question so far ... Can you give me a quick example of any other techniques I could include and how to do it?

[TheAspiringDoc]

Thank you so much! That was really helpful!

Is there a specific way to include my techniques? I've only used a rhetorical question so far ... Can you give me a quick example of any other techniques I could include and how to do it?

emotive language, repitition, facts, opinions, quotes, triple construction, metaphor, real life examples and placing people in the situation (sort of like retorical questions?)
I dunno though, there's probably more..

[Coffee]

Is there a specific way to include my techniques? I've only used a rhetorical question so far ... Can you give me a quick example of any other techniques I could include and how to do it?

Here's a list of persuasive language techniques with examples: http://www.vcestudyguides.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2010/09/Persuasive-Techniques-Insight-Outcomes1.pdf

In terms of how to incorporate these PLTs into your piece, think back to the skills you have learnt in language analysis and your oral. If you're writing an opinion piece, editorial or speech; these skills are easily translatable. The only difference is rather than analysing the piece, you're writing it. In order to help generate ideas ask yourself:

• What is my message? What do I want to convey to the reader?
• What language choices will I make?
• What kind of language is appropriate?
• Why are these effective in persuading the reader?
  

Remember the purpose of a persuasive piece is to convince the reader that your point of view is correct.

[biy]

Hey everyone

Where/when/how do i start with my oral presentation? I have a topic chosen but have no idea where to start, and how..

[HighTide]

Hey everyone

Where/when/how do i start with my oral presentation? I have a topic chosen but have no idea where to start, and how..

I'm not sure if you meant how to begin the presentation or begin preparation. Anyway...
I take it you have also adopted a persona. So, begin by establishing your persona, the setting, the audience, the issue and your contention.
This was mine this year:

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. As the economic analyst for the Federal Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development, I thank you, Premier Daniel Andrews, for allowing me this opportunity to address the Victorian Cabinet regarding the East-West Link contract.
I hope to convince you that the East-West Link is an essential piece of infrastructure which must go ahead. I will start by reminding Premier Andrews that despite choosing to present in this way, he was not elected with a clear mandate to abandon the East-West Link but instead, was voted in, due in a considerable part, to preferential voting.

If you meant, where to begin... then try researching your topic. Get more arguments than you need and choose the strongest in a way that it still flows and covers the issue. Also ensure it meets the rubric (if your school gave you one).

[Adequace]

Hey,

I have a text reponse exam next week and I'm confused since my teacher says I have to address this hidden question no matter what. "How does the author create meaning", do I address this in all of my paragraphs including the introduction or do I only have to mention it once?

Should each of my body paragraphs be saying how the author uses characters and their actions to imply a message or can I talk about a character or theme specifically?

My teacher said to sign post my arguments in my introduction, but obviously at VCE level I shouldn't, or do it so obviously? Do I have to mention what I'll be saying in each paragraph in my intro, or can I just start off with a broad idea in my intros and then focus on specific events in each of my body paragraphs?

[heids]

@Apink!, I didn't answer because it looks kinda silly to state, 'I don't know'

I have a text reponse exam next week and I'm confused since my teacher says I have to address this hidden question no matter what. "How does the author create meaning", do I address this in all of my paragraphs including the introduction or do I only have to mention it once?

Should each of my body paragraphs be saying how the author uses characters and their actions to imply a message or can I talk about a character or theme specifically?

That's a weird way to put it... essentially, it just means that you've got to keep referring to the author and how they are intentionally doing things.  They intentionally structure the book the way they do, intentionally choose language, intentionally set up characters in certain ways (e.g. they might make a poor person very likeable, heroic and strong while a rich person is harsh and horrible, to challenge the upper classes' focus on money) etc etc.  They also probably have messages to that society or humankind in general.  Basically you've just got to be always showing awareness that the author is the driving force behind everything, and they're carefully creating their text to convey their views/values to the audience as powerfully as possible.  Though I bet the authors didn't mean 1/100 of the things that students attribute to them . Read this post.

So it's not a requirement of 'PUT THIS ONCE IN THE INTRO AND ONCE IN EACH PARAGRAPH', it's more changing your overall way of writing to constantly acknowledge authorial intent and reference the messages the author is trying to convey.

My teacher said to sign post my arguments in my introduction, but obviously at VCE level I shouldn't, or do it so obviously? Do I have to mention what I'll be saying in each paragraph in my intro, or can I just start off with a broad idea in my intros and then focus on specific events in each of my body paragraphs?

Huh!?  I know I wasn't great at English, but I signposted paragraphs' arguments in the intro...  Obviously that doesn't mean writing bland formulaic 'firstly, secondly, finally' statements in the intro and then rehashing them at the start and end of your body paras and in the conclusion; you should mix it up a bit more... but I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with it, I think you'll find yourself getting more and more subtle as you go so don't stress yet.

I feel like Lauren's mentioned that she wrote pretty vague intros without too much signposting because the ideas just flowed from her mind as she went, but that's just coz she's Lauren .  Check here for her intro hints.

And note that paragraphs shouldn't be centred so much round EVENTS as IDEAS, read this post for a couple of hints. The events support the ideas.

EDIT: hoping I haven't said anything too badly wrong here

[Adequace]

@Apink!, I didn't answer because it looks kinda silly to state, 'I don't know'
That's a weird way to put it... essentially, it just means that you've got to keep referring to the author and how they are intentionally doing things.  They intentionally structure the book the way they do, intentionally choose language, intentionally set up characters in certain ways (e.g. they might make a poor person very likeable, heroic and strong while a rich person is harsh and horrible, to challenge the upper classes' focus on money) etc etc.  They also probably have messages to that society or humankind in general.  Basically you've just got to be always showing awareness that the author is the driving force behind everything, and they're carefully creating their text to convey their views/values to the audience as powerfully as possible.  Though I bet the authors didn't mean 1/100 of the things that students attribute to them . Read this post.

So it's not a requirement of 'PUT THIS ONCE IN THE INTRO AND ONCE IN EACH PARAGRAPH', it's more changing your overall way of writing to constantly acknowledge authorial intent and reference the messages the author is trying to convey.
Huh!?  I know I wasn't great at English, but I signposted paragraphs' arguments in the intro...  Obviously that doesn't mean writing bland formulaic 'firstly, secondly, finally' statements in the intro and then rehashing them at the start and end of your body paras and in the conclusion; you should mix it up a bit more... but I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with it, I think you'll find yourself getting more and more subtle as you go so don't stress yet.

I feel like Lauren's mentioned that she wrote pretty vague intros without too much signposting because the ideas just flowed from her mind as she went, but that's just coz she's Lauren .  Check here for her intro hints.

And note that paragraphs shouldn't be centred so much round EVENTS as IDEAS, read this post for a couple of hints. The events support the ideas.

Thanks for clearing up my misconceptions.

[biy]

Hi guys

Im having troubles with how to write up language analysis paragraphs I know what to write, but I dont know how to write it