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scarletmoon

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #240 on: March 13, 2015, 03:15:27 pm »
0
how often are you guys doing practice essays etc?

I'm going to aim to do at least 1 essay a week or a fortnight
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JackSonSmith

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #241 on: March 13, 2015, 09:39:41 pm »
0
Here is a link to my personal favorite essay of all time.  (The first essay in the report)

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Documents/exams/english/english_assessrep_11.pdf


What would the weaknesses of this essay be? What are your opinions of this essay?

Opinions are welcome from everyone.
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #242 on: March 14, 2015, 12:50:19 am »
+10
I haven't got 50 yet (%) but I just feel bad about my sac haha....
Just gotta put the hard work in , and I guess doing awesome on the exam will help significantly.

Do you think teachers will ever accept bribes? Honest question
This is how I feel right now for english. There's no hope for me. It seems as much as I try I just see no improvement haha
Okay, I know the posts above are at least partly in jest, but I'm going to answer these seriously because I think there's an underlying problem here that's unique to English subjects.

Most subjects consist of a fairly straightforward series of tasks: sit down, do exercises 1-5, Qs. a-g; memorise vocab list from chapter 4; do a practice exam, that sort of thing. Many people would argue you can treat English the same way, and that it's just a matter of finding the right activity to work on.

This approach isn't invalid. Plenty of people have scored very highly by simply understanding the system, writing heaps (/"spamming" essays as I'm told da kidz are calling it) and memorising chunks of whatever works.
I feel like this is perpetuated by a lot of schools, tutors, and even professional companies because it's a comfort. Being told you can write a certain number of essays and be certain of a reasonably good mark is nice to hear. And whilst it's not totally untrue, I do think it's contributing to some serious misconceptions regarding the subject.

The best kept secret, I've found, is that although you may score well if you know what to write, you will definitely score well if you know how to think.

This is an unpopular view for good reasons; it's not like a teacher with a class of 30 can feasibly teach students how to think within 8 months, ~4 hours a week, whilst also conforming to a syllabus and the pressure of exams. I'll admit I've caved to this pressure as well with a few of my students, and end up just focusing on criteria and assessment because of time restrictions or other issues.

But English is a subject that rewards thinking.

You can rote-learn. You can know your texts inside-out and study high-scoring responses and annoy your classroom teacher until they give you so much feedback you can predict what they're going to say. What's more, you're going to feel good about this, because you're physically doing tangible work that your brain associates with progress. Even if you're hitting some mental blockades with the content, it'll still feel like improvement because you're working at it.

For some people this is the only way they learn. Quite a few people in my year level would be writing essays from day one. They were atrocious essays, and were in no way indicative of their abilities, but for them, it was a way of consolidating their knowledge.

But the only reason why this works is because of the (often unintentional) tangential benefits.

Doing the 'class-assigned' kinds of activities is a slow-but-effective way to better your thinking. So why do this when you could go for a fast-but-effective method?

Well, partly because it's going to feel slower. You'll be doing unfamiliar things, and for a long time, you'll probably be doing them badly. However, as someone who's seen the system from both sides now, I've concluded this is a much better way of tackling the course.

For starters, let's clarify what's meant by 'thought.' We all know what it means, but strangely it's not a word that gets tossed around in English classes quite so much as 'juxtaposition' or 'inclusive language' might. This can be attributed to it's abstract-ness: your teacher can't see you thinking, save for seeing the result of the process in essay-form.

So when you're getting essay feedback, you're receiving criticisms for the product of your thinking, right? (-Excluding handwriting issues or minor structural things that you maybe weren't aware of.) Here's where problems start to arise...

For anyone who's worked in retail/ hospitality, you'll probably be familiar with copping blame for things totally out of your control. I used to work in a chicken and chip shop, and I'd have customers who would come in and complain about everything under the sun; chips aren't cooked right, the salt is to salty, the chickens are too small, why does this salad have lettuce in it? etc. etc.
I was but a mere server-girl, and so, realistically, if these bitterly displeased customers actually wanted their problems solved, they would have addressed the root of the problem and not hurled abuse and/or utensils at me.

Your English teachers, in this somewhat tortured metaphor, are akin to my old chicken shop patrons. They're not trained to consider the source of their discomfort, be that a misunderstanding of the text or the fact that our shop was drastically understaffed most nights; instead, their natural inclination is to blame what is made apparent:  the wrong words in a body paragraph, or a slightly dirty fork.

When you get comments on your essay like 'needs development' or 'I'm not sure about this,' what your teachers are actually-sort-of-kinda-but-not-really-trying-to-say is change your thinking! But that sounds weird because it's easier for them to focus on your essay itself, and it's less strenuous for students to obsess over numerical scores or criteria than it is to consider the possibility of mind-altering-drugs-study instead.

Now prepare yourselves for
Lauren's foolproof guide for How to Think Good
To demonstrate this we're going to look at a textual excerpt. You don't have to know anything about it, in fact it's better if you don't. I'm adapting this from an Andrew Bovell play called 'Speaking in Tongues' if anyone's interested.
         VALERIE: [answering machine] John, it's me... Valerie. I wish you'd let me do the message.
                       You sound so... I don't know... distant.

To learn how to think properly for English (/Lit, which is what I usually use this example for, but tomaito tomahto) all you have to do is answer this question: What do you know about Valerie and John?
That's all. But fair warning, my answer to this question is over 2000 words long, and that's all without reference to the play this came from.

Most people will fumble for a starting point at first, like 'well, we know she's talking to John on an answering machine, and that she wants to do the message instead of him.' Later, once you get past the basic, denotative stuff, you'll end up in 'assumptions' territory, eg. maybe they're not getting along, and that's why he sounds distant and she's not allowed to do the message. Keep building on this, and eventually you'll reach full blown implications: John is trying to maintain some semblance of power in their marriage by exerting control over petty things like which of them record an answering machine message. Meanwhile, Valerie is able to undermine his authority through criticism; she is still able to voice her objections, meaning he does not have complete command over her.
That's not to say there is a 'right' answer. You could go in a completely different direction, eg. The fact that the two are communicating via an answering machine - an innately indirect form of conversation - suggests they are not able to engage with one another on any level. Both John and Valerie are "distant," and without artificial conduits like answering machines between them, their relationship has very little holding it together.

Evidently what I'm talking about here is more like overthinking than just thinking, but perhaps that's appropriate.
Let me be clear: this will not directly help you. You should not spend 200 words in an English body paragraph analysing two sentences from the text/article. This is not about a subject-specific skillset, this is about rewiring your brain to look at things differently.

In the above exercise, I extrapolated from two lines of dialogue and concluded that the couple had a serious communication barrier between them, and were likely in the midst of some confusion regarding the power balance between them. I could be wrong, but that's not the point. The point is that I can justify my thinking.

I had a teacher who conducted a similar exercise in class and ended it with 'of course you couldn't say something ridiculous like 'this excerpt suggests John wants to grow a beard' or anything.' But I disagree. 
John's lack of control over Valerie signifies his emasculation ,which is exacerbated by Valerie's implied criticism. She is able to express her wants in no uncertain terms, and her power is marked by a stereotypically feminine "I wish you'd let me" brand of passive aggression. Thus, it seems logical then for John to gravitate towards physicality as a means of reasserting himself with something equally gender codified; perhaps a handlebar mustache, or even a proper, fully-fledged man-beard - an ideogram of his patient but firm dominance.
Note: I would never seriously write that in an essay. This was an exercise in thinking, and taking my analysis further than the surface level. Do this often enough, and you begin to get a feel for what actually belongs in an essay, and what's just conjecture.

I know this is quite text-heavy, but a willingness to read is just important as a willingness to write for English :)

Yes, it's frustrating when you're not making obvious numerical improvements, and yes, working out what constitutes as "useful" study is a lot tough in English than it is in other subjects, but it ultimately boils down to your willingness to engage with the material.

Think about stuff, and learn how to demonstrate this thinking in the best way possible. No magic required :)


literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #243 on: March 14, 2015, 01:35:56 am »
+3
Here is a link to my personal favorite essay of all time.  (The first essay in the report)

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Documents/exams/english/english_assessrep_11.pdf


What would the weaknesses of this essay be? What are your opinions of this essay?

Opinions are welcome from everyone.
I'm assuming you mean the Bypass Text Response piece?
so glad that text isn't on the list anymore. The Chief Assessor's buddy (also an English teacher) wrote it. Freaking nepotism man, the system's corrupt -.-

Firstly, this would be a pretty solid 10. I mean, I'd give it a 9-ish (~9.3 to be exact,) but it's very well constructed, well expressed, I just think it has some significant faults.

Let's look at the introduction:
Quote
In his meandering tale Bypass: the story of a road, Michael McGirr leads his readers on a journey down 'Australia's main street,' there's no need to quote this; it accomplishes nothing the Hume Highway ensuring that the stretch of bitumen is seen in a unique and refreshing way. This is a filler sentence. I know a lot of people use these just to kick off their intros, and I know some teachers even advocate for them, but personally I find them kinda irritating. General summations of the text and what it accomplishes don't tell me anything new or interesting, and engaging with the prompt from the outset would have been a much better starting point. From his bicycle saddle, McGirr is able to make use of his keen eye for detail as he this could easily be summed up with a couple of words in a much less clunky manner, eg. 'conveys' or 'hones in on.' It's also teetering on that dangerous brink of fawning! >:( >:( >:( Any sentence that's saying something like 'The author's expert elucidation of the human psyche is skillfully crafted to make readers weep with appreciation and joy' is so pointless it makes me weep with boredom. Admittedly, since this text was actually being marked by the author of the poxy text I guess this might have been a strategic thing, but VCAA have since raised their standards, so I'd advice everyone else to steer clear observes, ponders, and enlightens on w.c. You can't 'enlighten on' something the intricacies of human behaviour. Not only does his unique and honest narrative structure bleh, get to the point detail his journey from Sydney to Melbourne, it also offers an insight into the personal and spiritual journey that McGirr has embarked on. FINALLY we get some facet of the prompt being addressed! This is a good starting point, it's just a shame it's the third sentence instead of the first  ::) His physical journey is accompanied by anecdotes from the past, historical insights and aspects of his immense knowledge of literature, as well as the constant embellishment of self-deprecating humour. It's a bit 'list-y' and I'm squinting to see the relevance, but this is getting better. From all Big no-no. Never use absolutes like this, no matter how confident you are aspects of the journey that McGirr includes in his memoir minor quibble, but I can see it a lot in this piece: it's very inefficient. Here the student has written "the journey that McGirr includes in his memoir" instead of just "McGirr's journey" or even just "the text." There's a lot of redundancy and over-clarification - which admittedly is better than under-clarification, but is still a slight flaw his readers are able to learn more of the man himself. In this way, Bypass: the story of a road proves not only to be a detailed account of a bike ride *sigh* have I mentioned how glad I am that this text is gone? but a collection of opportunities to lean about McGirr's own character.
Based on this paragraph alone: meh/10.
Several redundancy issues, not a whole lot of development of the contention (if you can even call "yes, McGirr's character is revealed in his book" a contention,) and it's really not doing anything promising.

The strength is definitely in the body paragraphs, but even then, not entirely perfect. I think having 4 fairly short paras works to the student's disadvantage here because there's very little opportunity for deeper exploration. The majority of points, especially in the second, third, and fourth paras hinge on one or two examples, which is a shame because some of the exploration is well-handled. But when you're trying to draw big conclusions about the author as a character, just giving a really rough overview of key points of evidence is a bit problematic.

There are some missed opportunities for linking sentences at the ends of body paragraphs, and it kind of leaves too much up to the reader to project the analysis onto the essay. The last line is a rather neat summation of the piece (even though it breaks the stringent rule about never EVER using the word 'prove' in English - nothing is ever 'provable,' just 'inferable.')

Whilst I would definitely recommend reading high-calibre essays often, be careful not to glorify certain pieces. The idea should be to read heaps and take little bits and pieces here and there (like, ooh, that kid writes a mean topic sentence, and wow, this essay has some nice quote integration - *STEAL*)
But you don't want to be replicating any approach or format just because someone else scored well with it, especially because you'll be writing on a different prompt for a different (and invariably in this case, better) text.

KingDrogba

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #244 on: March 14, 2015, 11:11:58 am »
0
What scores do you generally need to achieve a 40 in English?
Both Sacs and exams.

Cheers
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I just want a 40 in Chemistry so i can run down my street naked, is that too much to ask?

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #245 on: March 14, 2015, 01:00:48 pm »
+3
What scores do you generally need to achieve a 40 in English?
Both Sacs and exams.

Cheers

Generally, 8/10s.
HOWEVER...
- SAC marks will change depending on cohort & exam performance
- getting 8/10 is much easier with some teachers than others
- some teachers mark harshly to scare you into working, and others mark too easy to boost confidence
- getting two or three 8/10s in a row doesn't guarantee you'll get the same score next time
- most people's performance is dependent on prompts (a.k.a. luck on exam day)
- thinking 'oh sweet, I'm getting 8s/9s, imma end up with a 45' is erroneous, and probably the best way to lull yourself into a false sense of security
- likewise, thinking 'Gosh dangit, I'm only getting 7s; oh well, no hope for me then' is also untrue and unhelpful

I think I've made my point :) If you obsess over scores, it will only work to your disadvantage. Focus on the work, and be pleasantly surprised by the end result.

xleannenguyen

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #246 on: March 15, 2015, 08:02:07 pm »
0
Hi Lauren,
I have trouble 'analysing' or going more in-depth when it comes to Text Response.
I also have difficulties trying to write with clarity and tightening my expression
Is there some kind of structure/formula when writing with complexity?

Thanks :))
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chansena

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #247 on: March 17, 2015, 06:43:15 pm »
0
Hi,

I am trying to write sentences with a didactic tone, but i am struggling.

I have this thus far.

Children have become immune to their phones, back in the day we would play outside. Is this an example of a didactic tone ?

Could i also have some more examples please . 

Thanks!!


« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 07:08:21 pm by chansena »
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StupidProdigy

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #248 on: March 18, 2015, 05:55:02 pm »
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Hi Lauren,
I'm not sure if this sentence makes sense? It's just a topic sentence for a paragraph I'm trying to write but I'm not confident I even understand fully what I have said (mainly the extols the virtue of family bit)
'Adiga extols the virtue that family is the most critical feature to an individual and essentially connotes that a “man” must place family at the foremost of his life.'
Thankyou!
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S33667

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #249 on: March 19, 2015, 09:44:11 am »
0
Hi Lauren,

I just want to thank you for the recommendation to watch Utopia as part of Whose Reality.   After season 1 I was hooked but couldn't quite work out the relevance to my area of study. 

I've just finished Season 2 - All I can say is WOW, talk about messing with my head and making me see reality from different perspectives.   A brilliant TV series and really thought provoking stuff  :)

I'm devastated there's no Season 3  :-X

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #250 on: March 19, 2015, 11:56:02 am »
+2
Hi Lauren,
I have trouble 'analysing' or going more in-depth when it comes to Text Response.
I also have difficulties trying to write with clarity and tightening my expression
Is there some kind of structure/formula when writing with complexity?

Thanks :))

Are these two issues related? As in, do you have issues with clarity because you're not going into enough depth?
'Clarity' is a fairly ambiguous terms, so let's try and break that down. Firstly, can you understand your own writing? Is it clear to you and not to your teacher, or can you notice the faults and confusion as you read? If it's the former, then you'll need your teacher to explain why specifically your writing isn't clear, and what you can do to fix it. But if you can tell there's something wrong, great! This means you have the right grammar rules in your head; you just get lost because you're rushing or forget to self-edit when you're following the flow of your ideas. If you know you're doing something wrong, you'll probably also have the same intuition when it comes to fixing your mistakes.

With regards to depth - do you not know what to write, or do you not know how to write it? Again, if it's the former, then perhaps sit down with your teacher and try to discuss the text, or read some online resources incl. other people's essays if they're available to you. Having trouble with what to write is an issue with content and understanding, so go back to the text and even comprehension resources if you have to (eg. depending on your text, you might find it helpful to do chapter summaries or annotations that highlight these points where going in-depth is necessary.)

However, if you've got the ideas sorted and just can't put them into words, then chances are you need to work on your expression and/or vocab. Try and be as specific as possible with where you're having trouble. One question many people find helpful is to ask 'when exactly do I hesitate/stop?' If you find yourself pausing at the ends of sentences with no idea where to go, or you finish a paragraph and feel like you've got nothing else to say next, then that's a problem that could be solved with adequate planning and thinking ahead. Whereas, if you stop mid-sentence and feel you don't have the right words at your disposal, then of course your vocab probably needs work.

Now that you've isolated an area that you need to work on, see if you can hone in on the specifics as to where and why you're going wrong :)

Hi,

I am trying to write sentences with a didactic tone, but i am struggling.

I have this thus far.

Children have become immune to their phones, back in the day we would play outside. Is this an example of a didactic tone ?

Could i also have some more examples please .
Not sure why a didactic tone is necessary, but to break it down: didactic means 'designed to teach,' so the tone you're going for would be a sort of aggressive school teacher barking commandments at you. You want to go for very definitive and informative sentences; I'd imagine most newspaper opinion pieces would be good examples of this :)

Hi Lauren,
I'm not sure if this sentence makes sense? It's just a topic sentence for a paragraph I'm trying to write but I'm not confident I even understand fully what I have said (mainly the extols the virtue of family bit)
'Adiga extols the virtue that family is the most critical feature to an individual and essentially connotes that a “man” must place family at the foremost of his life.'
Thankyou!
Mostly okay, but there are a few little issues. 'extols the virtue' is a little clunky, but understandable. 'Connotes' means 'hints at,' but it's usually meant to be used when referring to single words or phrases (eg. the word 'leader' connotes strength and influence, or the phrase 'deaf as a doorknob' connotes ignorance or being unwilling to consider new ideas.) In this case it might be better to use a word like 'suggests' or 'shows.'

Hi Lauren,

I just want to thank you for the recommendation to watch Utopia as part of Whose Reality.   After season 1 I was hooked but couldn't quite work out the relevance to my area of study. 

I've just finished Season 2 - All I can say is WOW, talk about messing with my head and making me see reality from different perspectives.   A brilliant TV series and really thought provoking stuff  :)

I'm devastated there's no Season 3  :-X
You're very welcome! Hope it didn't scar you too much :s In terms of linking it to WR, I probably wouldn't use it as an expository-type example, but funnily enough it relates really well to the idea of utopia and ideal realities. Without spoiling too much for those who haven't seen it, suffice it to say that the two conflicting groups in the series both believe they're doing what's right, and the show plays with that idea in an interesting way.

You could link it to some of the real world ideologies that take a similar view to The Network, and perhaps even link this into a discussion of terrorism and whether these realities can be effective, or the extent to which their coming into conflict is a beneficial. Mainly just a source of inspiration for you to get started :)

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #251 on: March 19, 2015, 12:37:07 pm »
0

You could link it to some of the real world ideologies that take a similar view to The Network, and perhaps even link this into a discussion of terrorism and whether these realities can be effective, or the extent to which their coming into conflict is a beneficial. Mainly just a source of inspiration for you to get started :)

This is exactly how it's helped me !   I've been trying to explore ideas around Daesh and foreign fighters.   I've been really focused on propaganda and was a bit lost how people could buy into it all.   But Utopia has really made me think deeper about the impact of an ideologies on your reality.   (and how easy it is to be swayed to a different belief system ... no spoilers, but there was a point where I was wondering if Leporidae was right and should be successful)

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #252 on: March 19, 2015, 01:24:54 pm »
+2
This is exactly how it's helped me !   I've been trying to explore ideas around Daesh and foreign fighters.   I've been really focused on propaganda and was a bit lost how people could buy into it all.   But Utopia has really made me think deeper about the impact of an ideologies on your reality.   (and how easy it is to be swayed to a different belief system ... no spoilers, but there was a point where I was wondering if Leporidae was right and should be successful)

I think that's the mastery of the series - to take such an unequivocally immoral concept and frame it in such a way that you end up almost aligning yourself with the 'evildoers.' It might also be worth juxtaposing this with some psychological theories about people's beliefs and how rigid realities can be - Justification theory, Fallibilism, and Confirmation bias come to mind as some starting points. In fact, even if you're planning on writing an imaginative piece, this kind of research can really help inform your writing. Wikipedia links above should provide you with a rough outline, but you could always do further reading if something piques your interest; let me know if anything doesn't make sense :)

Splash-Tackle-Flail

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #253 on: March 26, 2015, 05:42:59 pm »
0
In text response, when writing a prompt, do we have to cover all major events in the novel? Also, would evidence not covered in class (aka minor evidence i guess) create a better impression of your essay to examiners, rather than just using the events discussed by the teacher? How relevant does our response have to be to a prompt, as far as trying to discuss ideas that may go off on a tangent?

Thanks!
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #254 on: March 26, 2015, 05:55:18 pm »
+3
In text response, when writing a prompt, do we have to cover all major events in the novel? No.  Only evidence relevant to your discussion.
Also, would evidence not covered in class (aka minor evidence i guess) create a better impression of your essay to examiners, rather than just using the events discussed by the teacher? The examiner won't know what the teacher taught you.  Still, using minor events shows deeper, wider knowledge of the text rather than shallow surface level, while turning points/major events show you understand the 'big moments', the crux of what's going on.  So I'd use a mixture.  Definitely analyse in depth at home by yourself, do your own investigation rather than just relying on the teacher.  It'll add complexity and insight to your ideas.
How relevant does our response have to be to a prompt, as far as trying to discuss ideas that may go off on a tangent? Relevance is vital!  You can try to weave in stuff you know well, but still have to make it as relevant as possible.  Every single exam report has stressed 'don't be formulaic', i.e. don't rely on pre-prepared somewhat irrelevant stuff.  Everything you say should be trying to discuss the implications of the prompt, not what you would have liked the prompt to be.

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