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Ethereal

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Question about teaching
« on: December 29, 2019, 02:00:43 pm »
+4
I want to be a teacher in the future and would love to teach maths (and science).

I did very well in further as a year 11 and am confident to say that I pretty much know the ins and outs of the subject. Having tutored further to a few people, I quite enjoy it.

However, the thing is that I did methods and spesh this year (i'm a yr12 grad) and I both hated it and didn't do well. For methods, the whole year I only had a superficial understanding of most of the content and I think I barely scraped 40% for both exams to get a 27 raw. For spesh... let's just say I completely bombed the exams and did really terribly (21 raw :-\). I understand that teaching is more about having rapport with the tutees rather than knowing your content, and for my further maths teaching, I do try to have a balance between communication and knowledge (if that makes sense), but for methods and specialist I literally have no idea how to teach it and my knowledge of the content isn't great.

I've realised that teaching courses (and maybe jobs) require you to be versatile, so for my placements I could end up teaching a yr12 spesh class which isn't ideal. I have no problem teaching yr7-10 as I excelled in it back then (also, again, having helped a few juniors in maths at school).

Also has anyone actually seen the content you do in teaching? It's not even practical and so much boring theory in it.
Monash BSci

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Re: Question about teaching
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2019, 02:11:49 pm »
+5
I want to be a maths and science teacher too - but methods this year definitely wasn't my strong point... If you are passionate about it, give it a go. At uni you will continue practicing maths, so by the time you get to do a placement you should have a relatively good understanding about the content.
You can always explore other options - see what subjects you would enjoy teaching. That is the key. Students can tell when teachers aren't passionate and don't enjoy a topic/subject.

Also, you've probably heard of Mr Eddie Woo - one of Australia's most famous teachers. He is a mathematics teacher who hated maths while he was at school and it wasn't his best subject. In fact, he was originally going to be an English teacher. Although maths wasn't his best subject, he worked hard at improving and after years of practice at uni, he is now a teacher who has inspired and helped so many students around Australia.

Good luck! I hope you figure everything out :)
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Sine

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Re: Question about teaching
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2019, 02:19:33 pm »
+4
I've realised that teaching courses (and maybe jobs) require you to be versatile, so for my placements I could end up teaching a yr12 spesh class which isn't ideal. I have no problem teaching yr7-10 as I excelled in it back then (also, again, having helped a few juniors in maths at school).
From what I know I believe that is quite unlikely to happen. I would assume there are many people who didn't even study specialist maths or any maths going into your course. Also even when teacher's graduate in the first few years they are a teacher it is quite difficult to get a job teaching at a VCE level. They normally need to begin at the junior end of things.

I understand that teaching is more about having rapport with the tutees rather than knowing your content
idk about this. Surely knowing the content is the absolute minimum a teacher should be doing. I would definitely rather a teacher who knew the content than someone who was just nice - that is if it was a dichotomy. Obviously, all great teacher's have high levels of both. I'm not heavily involved in the teaching course so a question for you: is this a common belief amongst teachers, education students and those who teach education courses?

Ethereal

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Re: Question about teaching
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2019, 02:34:24 pm »
+4
idk about this. Surely knowing the content is the absolute minimum a teacher should be doing. I would definitely rather a teacher who knew the content than someone who was just nice - that is if it was a dichotomy. Obviously, all great teacher's have high levels of both. I'm not heavily involved in the teaching course so a question for you: is this a common belief amongst teachers, education students and those who teach education courses?
By having rapport, I was mentioning that both I and the tutee need to be on the same page so that both of us can communicate well. I need to lower my expectations to be at the same level as my tutee to figure out what they are struggling with, then we go from there and fill every hole and start building up on the content.

I had a tutor in year 11 who did exceptionally well in high school (I think like a 96 atar) and it was clear he knew the content, but he failed to teach and communicate it to me. He just went straight into teaching chronologically through the study design without knowing what I already understood and where I'm struggling.
Monash BSci

Sine

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Re: Question about teaching
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2019, 02:41:26 pm »
+1
By having rapport, I was mentioning that both I and the tutee need to be on the same page so that both of us can communicate well. I need to lower my expectations to be at the same level as my tutee to figure out what they are struggling with, then we go from there and fill every hole and start building up on the content.

I had a tutor in year 11 who did exceptionally well in high school (I think like a 96 atar) and it was clear he knew the content, but he failed to teach and communicate it to me. He just went straight into teaching chronologically through the study design without knowing what I already understood and where I'm struggling.
Fair enough, I was thinking more about non-educational rapport.

Aaron

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Re: Question about teaching
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2019, 03:23:45 pm »
+11
I'll just give you a quick overview of my own experience and hopefully this will help. For background I am currently a Maths and IT teacher.

When I did Year 12, the highest level of maths I did was Further and at that stage, my score wasn't great (at 27 raw, one would be shocked to think a teacher could achieve that and confidently teach it in a classroom). To this day, other teachers at my school are really surprised when I tell them that's what I achieved back then because you wouldn't picture it now. My goal was to always be a teacher - just my method areas were up in the air. I originally went with Business and IT because I really enjoyed them in high school, only to realise that this did not reflect reality. The subjects I did at uni that were business-related were boring, dry and lacked anything interesting or relevant to me.

As part of my IT degree, I was forced (at the beginning) to undertake a statistics unit and the lecturer who taught that was so engaging and inspiring (should've been a high school teacher tbh, was amazing). So much so that three things occurred as a result:
a) I achieved a high 80's for that subject - a subject where you'd think somebody with a score in high school like that probably wouldn't do too well in.
b) I chose further statistics subjects as a result (voluntarily, through elective choices).
c) I decided to ditch Business as my future teaching method and go down the Maths/Stats option
Also important to note that while I managed to get a minor in stats, I did do other units e.g. discrete maths as well.

The point I am trying to make above is that you shouldn't solely rely on your school experiences as a means of deciding whether you can do x or y in the classroom. Skills are taught and learnt over time. Just because you were crap in high school does not automatically mean this will translate into your own classroom teaching practice.

One of my key roles now is supervising student teachers that come through on placement rounds and we get quite a few from Monash (among other unis). I personally can say I've seen some really dodgy high-achieving teachers - those who have scored really well who can't even get the fundamentals right e.g. controlling a classroom. I give the same advice to anybody thinking about becoming a teacher - consider whether it is REALLY right for you. Knowing content is a good start but it is minor in comparison to the other things you need. Teaching is an extremely dynamic profession - don't go into teaching thinking you'll just teach VCE, because this is not the reality and you are often asked to do things that require more than just academics such as strong discipline and emotional intelligence particularly in those lower years. Without knowing your students or building relationships with them, the 'knowing your content' part becomes meaningless. It's important, sure, but relationships and being able to differentiate your teaching rather than the 'one fits all' approach is absolutely critical. People often base their own interpretations and understanding of what a teacher's role is and the requirements of it based on their experiences as a student, which only is one perspective (and a restrictive one, by the way).

In terms of placements as well, you aren't automatically given a class to teach for example. If it's your first placement, this usually is observation with the teaching of a class here and there. It's important to note that you aren't thrown in the deep end automatically, most mentor teachers are understanding and will have a discussion with you about what you would like to teach and what they think is best for your development. Some VCE teachers will be quite hesitant to allow a pre-service teacher to take their class due to deadlines, SACs, having to teach things properly etc.. My first placement was at an independent school and my mentor (luckily) was quite understanding of the fact that Maths wasn't my main area (Digitech is) and that I wasn't really comfortable teaching VCE at that point in time. We worked through it and I ended up teaching a Year 8 class instead and that was a fantastic introduction for me. On my last placement, I did end up teaching VCE General Maths for that placement and I think that progression is really important.

Given I am a maths teacher (and Digital Tech is my primary method area), I often am quite hesitant to take on something like Methods or Specialist for the reasons outlined previously. I have found that I have learnt alot of what I have needed to fill the gaps in my own understanding on the job - teaching the lower year levels has really helped with this and I can now connect things together that I wasn't able to when I was in school.

I think it's worth noting that at school and university environments are two completely different things - i'd start to be concerned if you do maths etc. at uni and are still not improving or witnessing success.

I would also say that the statistics on out-of-field maths teachers is shocking, so being qualified in this discipline means you've got a 1 up on quite a number of current maths teachers.

Quote
Also has anyone actually seen the content you do in teaching? It's not even practical and so much boring theory in it.
Yup. I did my Masters at Monash a few years ago and I wasn't impressed. I would say that your most valuable experiences in a teaching degree are the placements as this reflects the real-world relevance of what you'll face when you graduate. It also provides an opportunity for you to network and build relationships needed for a career. I viewed the degree as a ticking the box exercise but the placements were the most beneficial part. If you have to take one component seriously, it'd be those placements because they make or break teachers (either through self-realisation that it isn't the right thing for them or the fact that they are technically longer-term job interviews and allow you to showcase your practice to potential employers). By the end of the first few days you will know whether you're in the right place or have made a terrible mistake.

I have learnt most of what I know today from my own experiences through placement and employment. I don't doubt that I probably integrate alot of what I learnt theoretically into my own practice automatically without knowing explicitly, but my pedagogy, teaching philosophy, ways I interact with students etc. has all been devised by me through practice.

I'll end by saying sometimes it's a good thing to be thrown in the deep end (within reason). If you feel comfortable as a teacher, chances are you aren't doing enough. From my very first role as a teacher I was thrown in the deep end as a curriculum leader and sole teacher of a discipline (as a graduate lol) and I reckon I am so much better for it. I now have a formal responsibility position in just my 3rd year of teaching and at 25 I reckon i've done pretty well so far. Be willing to be adventurous, know your limits (and whether you're just going to say no because you're fearful) and you'll be amazing.

Happy to ease your nerves or answer any more q's you may have, feel free to PM me anytime.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 04:01:17 pm by Aaron »
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brenden

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Re: Question about teaching
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2019, 04:52:24 pm »
+8
I think that you shouldn't worry, and you should back yourself in being able to teach those subjects at a Year 12 level after your degree is over (and after some teaching experience). You will get much smarter through uni - you'll do maths at a higher level than you've done currently, and when you go back to look at Methods, it will be much easier for your to understand.

And yes - teaching degrees are impractical and boring. You just need to tick that box so they let you in the classroom. Don't expect to get anything amazing from it. Take placements super seriously, find the best teachers, ask them everything you can and write it all down.
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angewina_naguen

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Re: Question about teaching
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2019, 06:18:33 pm »
+7
I'll add to these already incredibly insightful responses as someone who's currently doing an education degree. Similar to Aaron, I didn't perform too well in my chosen field of teaching in the HSC (in fact, Music was my lowest mark) so I thought I wouldn't stand a chance as a teacher for it despite wanting to pursue Music Education since my senior years of school. I remember the first two weeks or so of uni hearing everyone doing Music Extension and all the Band 6's they achieved, thinking I was definitely doomed.

What really changed the game for me was realising that how I performed in high school shouldn't reflect the potential I have for success in the future. Pouring more time into my education courses, as well as doing just that bit more of revision here and there for my weaker music subjects, made a huge difference in my marks and overall approach to university study. It all came down to having passion and a strong philosophy for education, that is making a difference in your own desired way! If you have a passion for teaching, it will always find a way to drive you towards success  :)

As for the education subjects themselves, there is a lot of theory and critical thinking/reflection involved. While I didn't think half of it was useful and did find it really tedious at first, as I was tutoring this year, I realised how much better I was able to handle even the smallest of challenges just from having that knowledge. They're not so much there for immediate practical uses, but for you to think about the ways you can strive towards best practice and to navigate different scenarios in the classroom. They make much more sense when you're teaching (tutoring etc.) and I'd imagine they'd be even more relevant once you're on placement. I'd go in with an open mind about the content and take what you think might be useful on board :) Hope this helps and all the best with your studies!

Angelina  ;D
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 06:23:27 pm by angewina_naguen »
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