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May 13, 2021, 11:09:50 pm

Author Topic: ATAR/Scaling Questions  (Read 78757 times)  Share 

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jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #210 on: April 29, 2019, 10:12:39 am »
+1
How do you reckon the scaling would be for the 2019 hsc.
What year will it be similar to?

Hey! It's impossible to tell, will depend on the subject and the exam and all manner of other factors ;D

Einstein_Reborn_97

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #211 on: February 11, 2020, 10:17:58 pm »
0
Why is the performance of the whole cohort critical to getting a Band 6?
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jamonwindeyer

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #212 on: February 15, 2020, 11:02:50 am »
+7
Why is the performance of the whole cohort critical to getting a Band 6?

Hey! Sorry for the delayed reply to your Q ;D

It's not exactly 'critical,' plenty of people get B6's in 'poor-performing' cohorts. But it does make it easier if you are around the middle of the pack. You can read more here (https://atarnotes.com/how-does-scaling-work/), but basically, your cohorts' scores in the exam helps determine how your internal marks will moderate, meaning that if they do poorly in the exam, your internal mark might not be as high as you like, even if you personally do really well in the final exam.

The way to think about it is, if you are in a 'poor-performing' cohort, you just need to work hard to be ranked high in that cohort. To take that to the extreme, if you are ranked first and you also get the highest score in the final exam, it will be like your cohort never existed and you will just get your own mark. All of this is explained better in that link above :) hope that helps!

Einstein_Reborn_97

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #213 on: February 20, 2020, 12:04:16 am »
0
Hey! Sorry for the delayed reply to your Q ;D

It's not exactly 'critical,' plenty of people get B6's in 'poor-performing' cohorts. But it does make it easier if you are around the middle of the pack. You can read more here (https://atarnotes.com/how-does-scaling-work/), but basically, your cohorts' scores in the exam helps determine how your internal marks will moderate, meaning that if they do poorly in the exam, your internal mark might not be as high as you like, even if you personally do really well in the final exam.

The way to think about it is, if you are in a 'poor-performing' cohort, you just need to work hard to be ranked high in that cohort. To take that to the extreme, if you are ranked first and you also get the highest score in the final exam, it will be like your cohort never existed and you will just get your own mark. All of this is explained better in that link above :) hope that helps!

Thanks for the response!
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Penguin12121212

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #214 on: April 09, 2020, 01:08:49 am »
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Hi!
I was wondering about moderation in that I've heard if you come say 5th internally, you will get the 5th HSC exam mark? Say I end up around 5th internally, but I get the 2nd HSC mark in my cohort. Does that mean the 2nd mark goes to the 2nd internally and I get whatever the 5th mark is? Or do I get to keep my 2nd HSC mark?

Not sure if I'm saying this in a way that make sense so for example,
If I get 90 internally, and come 5th, and Bob gets 95 internally and comes 2nd. If I get a 96 in the HSC, which say is the 2nd highest mark in my cohort and Bob gets a 89, will I get to keep that 96 as well as Bob getting his 89 scaled up to that 96? Or do I get some other random mark that was 5th in my cohort because of my internal rank.
Thanks!

fun_jirachi

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #215 on: April 09, 2020, 07:27:28 pm »
+4
Hey there, welcome to the forums!

In an oversimplified way, that is roughly how the ATAR works. More accurately, your internal marks determine your ranks amongst those in your school. NESA then uses those ranks against the range of external marks achieved by your school using some distribution to determine your internal mark. Basically, they match your rank to a corresponding score based on your cohort - it may be higher or lower than your rank's score in the set of marks depending on how skewed your cohort's performance is. This internal mark is then averaged with your actual external mark to provide your HSC mark.

Essentially, you do get to get to keep your 2nd HSC mark, but that'll only make up 50% of your HSC mark, as your external 50%. The other 50% is made up of the internal calculated as above.

Hope this makes sense!
Spoiler
HSC 2018: Mod Hist [88] | 2U Maths [98]
HSC 2019: Physics [92] | Chemistry [93] | English Adv [87] | 3U Maths [98] | 4U Maths [97]
ATAR: 99.05

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Lukky333

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #216 on: August 13, 2020, 11:07:15 pm »
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Ok so to ask my question, I'm going to have to present the situation first (this is hypothetical):
Let's say that you had a horrible internal rank at the end of the year, e.g. 59/60 in a subject. But then at the end of the year, you manage to clutch up and get an awesome external mark in the HSC, where lets say you came first with a mark of 97.
Now I know that your HSC mark is the average of the external and the moderated internal mark that is calculated by changing your original internal score to correspond with the external assessment score of the student in your cohort that had ranked the same in their external as you did in your internal. But to be fair, at the end of the day, you came first in the exam that everyone in the state had to sit. So my question is, can NESA acknowledge this fact and maybe even boost your internal assessment mark (regardless of your rank), especially if the moderated assessment mark that you got was terrible (due to another person's external mark)? Because I reckon that there is such a big difference that is demonstrated in this situation that if you did this you shouldn't be overlooked and should be given some credit.
Thank you!

ziwa.fizae

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #217 on: October 18, 2020, 11:58:09 pm »
0
hey guys im currently attending a school ranked 200-300
here are my internal marks

english std: 24/118    73% avg
maths adv:21/60    67% avg
chem:18/26  59% avg
bio:24/66  70%
bus stds:27/78 75% avg

say i get these raw marks in my hsc what is the outcome of my atar??
engstd:85% raw mark
maths adv:90% raw mark
biology: 90% raw mark
chemisty:75% raw mark
business studies: 92% raw mark

thanks

hooter03

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #218 on: October 27, 2020, 02:10:56 pm »
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Hey, quick question, how much higher do you think the marks for maths standard will get scaled. I got a rough 80 or so although I was initially aiming for over 90 is it still possible or is that dragged too much??? Considering the fact that the majority of the state found the exam difficult and only some people were able to answer the difficult questions and its also. So do you think a 90 above is still possible?

Also, I came first in maths if that helps, my internal is an 89.

BakerDad12

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #219 on: October 27, 2020, 09:48:40 pm »
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Same for Maths Advanced, curious for the alignment process. I've looked at the raw marks database thing, but I'm not sure how much the alignment happens will change as a result of the new syllabus.

neha.singh4

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #220 on: April 26, 2021, 02:51:17 pm »
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Could someone please explain raw marks! Are raw marks used for the internal mark or external marks?

fun_jirachi

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #221 on: April 26, 2021, 08:12:02 pm »
+4
Raw marks are used for both. Simplistically, your raw marks are scaled against the performance of your cohort, and your internal mark is 'chosen' based on your internal rank and the scaled range of marks produced by your cohort. Your external mark will be your scaled raw mark. There are more detailed explanations elsewhere, but if you can't find them or would prefer me to explain it a bit more myself, then by all means ask again :)
Spoiler
HSC 2018: Mod Hist [88] | 2U Maths [98]
HSC 2019: Physics [92] | Chemistry [93] | English Adv [87] | 3U Maths [98] | 4U Maths [97]
ATAR: 99.05

UCAT: 3310 - VR [740] | DM [890] | QR [880] | AR [800]
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pmcrawford

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #222 on: April 29, 2021, 12:06:49 am »
+1
Hey everyone, it is really hard to wrap you head around but after reading this whole forum i have figured it out and i hope this helps xx.

In your hsc you have your internal mark: To begin with your internal mark no one cares about, it is your RANK that matters, your rank is calculated against your own schools cohort (just the kids in your school) and how well you do in each exam and then is averaged out. (e.g. you get 75% in your first exam and that ranks you 3rd but then in the next exam you get 60% and everyone below you does better you get dropped to 10th, however this goes up and down based on how well you do compared to everyone else)  . this includes all in class exams, hand in's and trials. pretty much in the last 4 terms of school determines your rank. NOW this rank is the KEY to life. once you complete trails (the last chance you have to change your rank) your rank will be fixed in place. For example in legal you rank 10/30 and got a 70%.

It now moves onto the hsc and you smash it! you end up getting a RAW mark of 89% in legal and life is great!

Lets say in the hsc exam your rank stays at 10/30 even though you did better so did everyone else your internal mark with then change to 89%.

Your actual internal mark is NOT used it is your rank that is used. Your rank internally is the grade you will get who ever ranks that in their hsc.
Eg. Your rank internally is 10/30 for legal and in the exam you do shit and become ranked 29/30 your internal mark will still be equivalent to the persons grade that came 10/30 .
THIS is why you have to be competitive in class and as soon as trials are over share EVERYTHING!
and that is your internal mark ^

You also have your external hsc/raw mark: Your raw hsc mark and it is the actual mark you get in the hsc exam, does not change what so ever, what you get is what you get and it is fixed and will not go up of down. this is the RAW exam mark.

Now we add the rank mark. and raw hsc mark , find the average and that is the atar.
Eg.
Your rank 10/30 for legal but come 15/30 in the hsc.
The person who came 10/30 in the exam got a mark of 90%
and your personal rank of 15/30 got 80%

your internal with be changed to 90% and your atar will be an average of the two.
If your coming first in a subject internally then who ever gets ranked the highest grade in the exam will then become your internal exam mark.

if you are ranked low, work hard to move up the ranks before trails end.





fun_jirachi

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Re: ATAR/Scaling Questions
« Reply #223 on: April 29, 2021, 09:56:15 am »
+3
Eg. Your rank internally is 10/30 for legal and in the exam you do shit and become ranked 29/30 your internal mark will still be equivalent to the persons grade that came 10/30 .

This is a common misconception - you do NOT take the mark with the same rank as your internal. They may be the same, but it's not as simplistic as this. The distribution of marks externally is moderated against the distribution of marks internally (as far as I'm aware). For all intents and purposes though, this understanding is close enough (and all you really need to know is that your internal rank needs to be as high as possible to maximise your marks).

Now we add the rank mark. and raw hsc mark , find the average and that is the star.

The raw mark is scaled then averaged with your internal. This forms your final mark, NOT your ATAR. Remember, your ATAR is based off the final marks of 2 units of English + 8 other best units.

If your coming first in a subject internally then who ever gets ranked the highest grade in the exam will then become your internal exam mark.

Despite what I said before, this is true (the highest and lowest internal ranks will always map to the highest and lowest marks externally).

Apart from this, this is pretty much correct - just wanted to address a few misconceptions in your response.
Spoiler
HSC 2018: Mod Hist [88] | 2U Maths [98]
HSC 2019: Physics [92] | Chemistry [93] | English Adv [87] | 3U Maths [98] | 4U Maths [97]
ATAR: 99.05

UCAT: 3310 - VR [740] | DM [890] | QR [880] | AR [800]
Guide Links:
Subject Acceleration (2018)
UCAT Question Compilation/FAQ (2020)
Asking good questions