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VCE Stuff => VCE Languages Other Than English (LOTE) => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Japanese SL => Topic started by: jibba on December 28, 2011, 04:53:46 pm

Title: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 28, 2011, 04:53:46 pm
Hey VCE Japanese students,

I completed Japanese in 2011 and received a score of 50, which surprised myself considering I am from a sub-continental background

I don't think my skill in Japanese is that great to be honest, but I worked the VCE Japanese system in my favour to score well.
So it is in this thread where I will share my tips and answer questions to those struggling/panicking in taking the fascinating language of Japanese at VCE level

First of all some advice to those doing Japanese in 2012, wondering what to do now (during the holidays).

What I did in my holidays was to learn all the VCE Kanji!
It may sound pretty boring, but it will really help you during your SAC's and exam next year if you learn all the kanji right now!

Some more exciting stuff would be to watch Drama.
I think I may have ended up watching a series of something every week throughout 2011.. lool
Drama (more so that anime) really helps your listening.

For first timers to J-Drama, I would recommend watching
Nihonjin no Shiranai Nihongo (a drama recommended by our Japanese teacher)
This drama is a comedy about teaching Japanese to foreigners, so you will definitely learn something new and interesting from this drama

Dragonzakura
This drama is about studying for exams!
 
Also I recommend using Rikai-Kun
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jipdnfibhldikgcjhfnomkfpcebammhp
Very useful for Detailed Study, when reading Japanese sites with lots of Kanji~

VCE Japanese Verb List for Year 12: http://www.mediafire.com/?855y3i2j43a57x5
(Note: basic verbs are excluded)

All the best to everyone~
and I'll try my best answering any questions.. :)

MyDramaList: http://mydramalist.com/dramalist/jibba (If you want names of Drama to watch)
MyAnimeList: http://myanimelist.net/animelist/jibba&show=0&order=4

EDIT:
My Exam Strategy & Tips

Reading Time: 15 mins
Spend at least 5 mins deciding a topic for Section 3: Writing and coming up with a plan in your head
Spend around 5 minutes reading Section 2: Reading in Japanese (looking up words you don't know in dictionary)
Spend remainder of time getting familiar with Listening questions, if you finish quickly go back to reading comprehension

Listening Section: 30 mins
Answer in English
Take notes in English
This section is about translating Japanese into English as accurately and exactly as you can. I made the example between 料理(りょうり)を作ったことがない vs 料理を作ることができない on the second page of this thread.
The translation of these two into English is different. 'I have never cooked' vs 'I cannot cook'
The markers will be particular about vague translations

Students aiming for a high score should try to get all the answers during the first listening (using the second listening for confirming answers)
(In my exam, I was able to get all of them except one part in the first listening)
Use any extra time for planning your writing or for reading comprehension (Obviously make sure you got the answers in English correct and written down first)
 
Answer in Japanese
Take notes in ROOMAJI (my technique) - Try to write down exactly what you hear into roomaji
If there are words you cannot understand or hear completely, attempt to write down what you hear. It might lead you to getting the correct answer later on 

This section is about copying the Japanese you hear and correctly putting it as the response to the relevant question
They don't want you to change the way they say it, you can simply just copy it as they say it
You may need to phrase your answer to suit the way the question is asked.
For example with last year's paper, you could've summarised the three advantages into one paragraph. Although you could also have three individual sentences
 
Reading Comprehension Section: 40-45 mins
Answer in English
Maybe spend 15-20 mins on this section, but it depends on length of texts and number of texts
Same as I said above, try translate the Japanese into English as accurately as you can

Answer in Japanese
(The killer section and the one where the good students set them selves apart from the rest)
Try to correctly use as much VCE grammar as you can in your responses (use it appropriately though) [Random Tip: I used to use ~そうです (I heard) to end answers where you had to provide information from the text]
Make sure all the VCE Kanji is used in your responses
Stating the obvious, but make sure your response answers the question completely! Do not add unnecessary information for the sake of using grammar

Writing Section: 30 mins
The suggested time is 50 mins, but the quicker you can finish the more time you will have to re-check all of your answers and fix mistakes
Students aiming for 40+ should try to finish in 30 mins
In my exam, I wrote a story as every year the least amount of students attempt that one. Doesn't mean everyone should write a story, but if you are confident in your Japanese it might be easier to score better writing the least popular topic.
Choose the topic you are most confident with.

If you can follow those time suggestions you should have 15-20 mins at the end to re-check everything
In my exam, I had around 15 minutes, which I used to fix kanji, spelling of words, and minimise as many grammatical errors as I could
Personally I think the re-checking time is crucial, because in my case I found a lot of silly errors in my responses, which I was able to fix because I left time at the end.

Tutoring
I would highly recommend a tutor, I had one myself. It is really helpful for your Speaking Exam, if you have someone to speak Japanese to on a regular basis for the months leading up to the exam.
Also, I offer tutoring/sessions at Monash University, Clayton (might be able to do other locations as well). Email me at [email protected] if interested

Minna, Ganbare~
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Furbob on December 28, 2011, 05:22:18 pm
wow good work jibba + some good advice there - giving this sticky status :D
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: myheaven on January 17, 2012, 12:55:46 am
Jibba and I both did unique topics within our class, he clearly did better than me, but there are many reasons to pursue researching a topic that interests you, I was talking to him about this a couple weeks back, and we will hopefully have some stuff to share with this year's jap sl cohort in regards to researching and succeeding with a unique topic.

If you wanna know just how unique our topics were, mine was:
メディアをとおして 広がる 女子高生のイメー
basically, Japanese Media's widespread image of the japanese schoolgirl LOL.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on January 17, 2012, 03:47:19 am
For first timers to J-Drama, I would recommend watching
Nihonjin no Shiranai Nihongo (a drama recommended by our Japanese teacher)
This drama is a comedy about teaching Japanese to foreigners, so you will definitely learn something new and interesting from this drama

I recommend this too. There's also a manga.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: prelyudia on January 17, 2012, 04:16:23 pm
Jibba and I both did unique topics within our class, he clearly did better than me, but there are many reasons to pursue researching a topic that interests you, I was talking to him about this a couple weeks back, and we will hopefully have some stuff to share with this year's jap sl cohort in regards to researching and succeeding with a unique topic.

If you wanna know just how unique our topics were, mine was:
メディアをとおして 広がる 女子高生のイメー
basically, Japanese Media's widespread image of the japanese schoolgirl LOL.

How did you actually go about researching? Do you just Google the topic and and hoped to find related articles with statistics, etc.?
And are there any general key points that everyone should take note of when researching? I've heard that it's good to know the pros and cons of any topic (like vending machines, etc.)

Also how did you find doing a topic that no one else did? My Japanese teacher is discouraging us from doing that.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: myheaven on January 17, 2012, 10:41:42 pm



How did you actually go about researching? Do you just Google the topic and and hoped to find related articles with statistics, etc.?
And are there any general key points that everyone should take note of when researching? I've heard that it's good to know the pros and cons of any topic (like vending machines, etc.)

Also how did you find doing a topic that no one else did? My Japanese teacher is discouraging us from doing that. Like a girl in our class wants to do Japanese superstitions but he said it'd be hard if she chose a topic different to everyone else cause she wouldn't be able to practice with anyone.

This is basically how my research worked.
I first started off using english sources, if you can find any books or even wikipedia articles related to your topic, that's sweet !
Usually you can find japanese sources that they used and you can go from there.
I had a couple morning/lunchtime/afterschool sessions with my teacher where we discussed my research, and we worked together to figure out how to approach the information I collected.
I also did this with a tutor.
Both my teacher and tutor also looked out for relevant articles if they ever came across it.
My teacher found some statistics on schoolgirl related crimes and my tutor actually found a bunch of articles related to idol groups like AKB48, and even had a colleague who knew quite a lot about "designer school uniforms".
In terms of independent research, it'd be harder, but if your teacher atleast has the time to check that you're understanding your research properly, then you should be okay.

When it comes to general key points for your detailed study.
Have an answer for anything they could possibly ask you.
A stupid example (which will hopefully illustrate what I mean)
Say you did.. Anime's popularity in Australia(which is already a pretty meh topic which I doubt anyone actually does) It can be like,
What do you think triggered Anime's popularity in Australia?
Pokemon, the anime with well known characters such as a pikachu
What is Pikachu?

That's seriously a stupid example, but basically, if you mention it, KNOW IT.
I tripped during my oral because I didn't have a prepared definition for enjo kousai (stupid mistake I know), and I just did it on the spot as something like "when girls interested in earning money charge men for girlfriend like activities such as going on dates, eating together etc."

Doing a unique topic is crazy fun, as long as you enjoy the topic. Don't do some really deep unique topic if you don't really care that much about it.
I'm sure Jibba has a bit more to say on this, but I'll just mention that he did his topic, because he was a huge fan of what he was researching.

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 17, 2012, 11:19:23 pm
Hey, Sorry for late reply (I'm actually attending a bartending course this week LOL)
Okay so answering your questions :D

Detailed Study: School lunch boxes and vending machines? Which one would you advise I choose?
Out of those two, I would choose vending machines as it interests me more :)
It is probably hard trying to do your own topic for detailed study by yourself, but this is what I did but I did have a friend who did my topic but a different area (he ended up with 40 so he did very well too )
My Topic was Vocaloids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocaloid), as myheaven said, I was quite a fan and had a genuine interest in the topic.
The examiners would never have seen a topic like this before, and the fact that I pulled it off was definitely the reason why I scored so highly.
You are right that it does put you at a disadvantage not having someone doing your topic, but if you can find a friend who agrees to do your unique topic than that would probably work the best for both of you.
To be honest, I think vending machines are a pretty good topic, but if you can find something unique that you have an interest in, you will most likely score quite well.

I'm scared that my study score will go down as a result of other students' results. Do you know how much it will go down by?
Hmm.. This question probably doesn't really have an answer to it. But the bottom line is your result in your oral and final exam. If you perform better in your exam than the result in your SAC marks, then there is no reason for your marks to fall down. It also depends on the quality of your teacher, in being able to determine who are the best students in your class and in what order. If the people in your class perform similarly to what your teacher has ranked them in, then there is no reason your scores will be affected by your class. But if you all get high SAC marks and some students do a lot worse on the exam, your mark will probably be affected (unless you do really well on the exam yourself).

did you do tutoring for Japanese? If not, how hard did you study for Japanese? Like to what extent? Did you learn a new sentence pattern everyday? Did you expand your vocab everyday?
Yes, I had a tutor who I went to every week. I tried to learn all the grammar patterns as early as I could. Personally, I learn new things quite quickly, so once I learned them it usually stuck. Also our teacher was very good in giving out handouts for grammar, so that helped a lot!
The main tool that helped me solidify my grammar and expand my vocab was watching drama/anime. I would pick up grammar (even non VCE grammar) from things I watched and would learn how to use it. Vocab.. well I did try to memorise vocab from our textbook but that obviously wasn't as fun. Usually I would skim through the vocab for each chapter in the book, and the ones I remember were the ones that I heard again in Drama/Anime. But in the end, it definitely was helpful although tedious, learning vocab just from a list.. I have a list that I've compiled from my textbook, I could type it up and post here if you would like it?

On your questions for General Convo.
If you post them here, I am happy to share extracts from my own answers and comment on how to improve yours.
Generally, if they ask you something like 'How many people in your family', it's usually an opening question and they are determining your skill. What I would do is just straight up answer the question and list who is in your family. Then make a general comment about your family eg: 'なかがいい家族だと思いますが、弟がまだ小学生だから、ちょっとうるさい時もあります。'

Back to Detailed Study 
For researching, Google is your friend and RIKAI-KUN (see my first post)
Rikai-Kun is the best thing ever for detailed study, you'd be crazy not to use it.
Also I found forums very helpful for information (but that is probably only due to the nature of my topic)
Yes, you MUST organise your research into key areas. A sample one off the top of my head for Vending Machines would be:
Definition, History/Development, Uses (Benefits), Differences to Western countries, Problems, Solutions to these problems, Future, and your Opinion

Feel free to ask more questions (That is the purpose of this thread : P)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 18, 2012, 09:52:54 pm
Try convince some of them to change to vending machine  : P , I think it's a better topic and the comparison to western culture aspect gives you something straight away to talk about.

Yea, I learnt a lot of the slang and casual terms as well, but I think overall it will help with the Listening component of the course. I highly recommend watching Nihonjin no Shiranai Nihongo (as said before) Here are the links for the DL's :) http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/torrents.php?search=nihonjin

I would advise getting a tutor (Although they might be quite expensive), my native Japanese tutor didn't speak English very well but it was still very helpful having someone to speak to in Japanese one on one on a weekly basis.
I live in the South-East and have my P's *hint hint if you need a tutor : P*
Or I can pass on the details of my Japanese tutor but she is also in the South East. 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on January 18, 2012, 10:06:35 pm
Vending machine is way better than obentou. Seriously. You can buy bread, ice cream, instant meals (cooked for you by the machine), noodles, alcohol, cigarettes, hot drinks, cold drinks, corn soup...

A discussion on obentou? Boring. A mother's parenting abilities are judged by the presentation and appeal of the obentou she prepares. If her child does not eat everything she puts in the obentou, then dishonour and shame are brought upon her and her family's name and she will be considered a bad mother by all the old women who gossip over green tea. She may only redeem herself by dancing the can can in the light of the full moon.

Disclaimer: Sometimes I forget whether I'm supposed to be typing seriously or not... I may or may not have taken the liberty of making it more interesting.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: aes_999 on January 18, 2012, 10:19:25 pm
I'm going a bit off topic here.
But i'm thinking of doing jap for my electives at monash uni.
I know that I won't be eligible for jap dip. lang,
since that'd take an extra year.
But given my circumstance (b. comm/ b.eco),
if i take Jap as my electives, how proficient could i be
at jap? Keep in mind, I haven't studied Jap at all.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on January 19, 2012, 12:36:51 am
I'm going a bit off topic here.
But i'm thinking of doing jap for my electives at monash uni.
I know that I won't be eligible for jap dip. lang,
since that'd take an extra year.
But given my circumstance (b. comm/ b.eco),
if i take Jap as my electives, how proficient could i be
at jap? Keep in mind, I haven't studied Jap at all.

If you use all eight of your electives for Japanese: intermediate.
If you use all eight of your electives for Japanese by going on exchange and you put in a lot of hard work: semi-native.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on January 22, 2012, 08:15:16 pm
Vending machine is way better than obentou.

Yeah I would never do obentou, but I would put conbini ahead of Vending machines.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 23, 2012, 12:36:01 am
If her child does not eat everything she puts in the obentou, then dishonour and shame are brought upon her and her family's name and she will be considered a bad mother by all the old women who gossip over green tea. She may only redeem herself by dancing the can can in the light of the full moon.

I lol'd

Back on topic:
@prelyudia the general consensus seems to be do vending machines!
Start by learning this word 自動販売機 :P
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sonnypls on February 14, 2012, 04:58:19 pm
I'm doing Japanese 11 & 12 at monash this year, pray for me :3
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on February 14, 2012, 06:42:51 pm
I'm doing Japanese 11 & 12 at monash this year, pray for me :3
Do you know what Proficient 1 is ? ie: in terms of those levels :S
I'm a bit worried tbh, I'm very bad at kanji and don't really know keigo >.>

Also as I promised, I've made a list of verbs which I learnt solely in Year 12.
Most of the easier ones ie: 見る、歩く、聞く
are excluded!
I would appreciate if any of the senior japanese students on this forum could proof read the list as I know I make a lot of mistakes while doing these type of things. I've learnt words such as 上着 (uwagi: jacket) as 浮気(uwaki: affair) and it can be a bit awkward during conversation LOL

Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?855y3i2j43a57x5
Note: I was testing out japanese fonts :P, if it hurts your eyes I'll upload a version with the classic MS font upon request :) 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on February 15, 2012, 10:26:40 pm
I'm doing Japanese 11 & 12 at monash this year, pray for me :3

!!!

Please let me know how you go! The only way I can fit 11 and 12 into my studies is if I take them in the same semester as 9 and 10 respectively. I think my results are good enough that I'd be able to get permission to do this, but I'm curious to know if it'd be academic suicide or not, ha ha.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Potato gem :-D on April 12, 2012, 08:11:02 pm
Thanks so much for the invaluable advice!!! 50 in Jap is truly inspirational. :-P
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: omgllama on April 13, 2012, 11:49:47 am
I'm doing Unit 3 & 4 Japanese this year and I cannot tell you how much I hate it.
There is only three people in my class and I am obviously the lowest scorer.
I have a listening outcome coming up that I have very little faith in passing...
HELP!!! we dont get any questions to answer we just have to go straight into a writing piece...
could someone give me suggestions for making Jap more exciting and easier to learn?????
hahaha yeah like jap could be easy!!
THANK YOU
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on April 13, 2012, 09:16:19 pm
@omgllama

Japanese can definitely be fun! I can help you with improve your listening if you give me more info on exactly what type of SAC it is...!
Learning Vocab is definitely a key part of learning any new language and I believe the best way to learn is through watching drama or anime.
I prefer Drama as the vocab is more useful!
I love watching comedies mainly as I can have a laugh while listening to the japanese.
I also found it helping watching with both Japanese and English subs (I know they exist for Liar Game Drama)
If you are interested I can recommend you some drama, and link you to the relevant sites~!

I'm actually learning korean from scratch at uni this year, and I'm finding it incredibly hard.... I started watching drama in korean this break and I've picked up new vocab here and there and am starting to get an understanding of the language :) (Also it's becoming more fun as well ! )
I'd strongly recommend watching drama to improve your japanese and make study fun :D

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on April 14, 2012, 03:14:56 pm
I'm actually learning korean from scratch at uni this year, and I'm finding it incredibly hard.... I started watching drama in korean this break and I've picked up new vocab here and there and am starting to get an understanding of the language :) (Also it's becoming more fun as well ! )
I'd strongly recommend watching drama to improve your japanese and make study fun :D

How is Korean? My understanding is that much of Japanese and Korean grammar is the same. Does it have the equivalent of kanji, or just an alphabet?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on April 14, 2012, 11:39:33 pm
I've heard the grammar is similar, I haven't really learnt any grammar yet in my 4 weeks of korean :P
There are some words that are really similar like Yakusoku is Yaksok
They just have an alphabet (Hangul) but the pronunciation is soooo much harder than japanese, they have like three different vowels for 'o'

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jessicayao on April 15, 2012, 04:32:56 am
I'm actually learning korean from scratch at uni this year, and I'm finding it incredibly hard.... I started watching drama in korean this break and I've picked up new vocab here and there and am starting to get an understanding of the language :) (Also it's becoming more fun as well ! )

WHAT SORTA KOREAN DRAMA ARE YOU WATCHING???
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on April 15, 2012, 11:37:10 am
I don't know many yet XD
But I'm watching 'You're Beautiful'
I've seen the Japanese version (Ikemen Desu ne) and heard that the original korean version was better (I'd have to agree :D)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: al.t on July 18, 2012, 10:19:36 pm
hey jibba,

I'm currently studying Jap 3/4 atm and as the oral examinations are coming up, I'm having a very hard time finding and/or choosing a sub-topic to talk about.... which is really starting to make me worry if I can do well, especially since in these past few months I've really come to like Japanese as a language and a culture... D:
My teacher is strongly recommending to my class school life, but I don't feel like I can do too much with it, so I was wondering if you could construct a list of sub-topics and the ones you'd recommend

Also, I think its great you've made this thread to help jap students like me :D and I'm very surprised you were able to pull off a topic like vocaloids O: I'm sure you deserved that 50 :D

Thanks :)v
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on July 20, 2012, 06:36:57 pm
Hey Al
If you would like to talk about something related to school life, you could maybe talk about entrance exams for high schools and universities in Japan. That could lead onto Juku (cram school tutoring), pressure on students, negatives such as sleep deprivation (I heard from my school teacher that there is a saying that if you sleep more than 4-5 hours, you cannot pass!)
You could also maybe talk about students who 'take a gap year' (best way I can put it) because they didn't get into their no.1 university preference, and attend another form of cram school in order to pass the entrance exam for the uni the following year.
I've also seen that some elitist schools in Japan rank students in the year level based on their marks, that may be a topic of discussion when comparing the school system to Australia.

Other school related topics could be bullying, maybe a bit depressing but high school suicides are quite common in Japan (the entrance exam pressure may also be a factor)
Other more fun topics could be bukatsu (club activities) or the Gakuensai (a school festival that schools commonly hold yearly)
That's my brainstorming off the top of my head, but I would recommend choosing a topic you are genuinely interested in! This will make memorization and research a lot more fun and efficient
Good Luck!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Poplar on July 26, 2012, 03:47:51 pm
I'm trying to decide on a detailed study topic. I know, it's late in the year to still be deciding.
My teacher chose a topic for the whole class, and so far she's shown us a clip from a TV show and some articles, and we haven't started writing the speech or anything yet. I'm finding it really uninspiring so far, and I can't think of anything interesting to talk about. Is it supposed to be a presentation of information or a discussion on an issue?

I had an idea that I was considering doing; I heard about it from a segment of a TV show I wanted when I was in Japan last summer. It's called 'Paris Syndrome', and it's a psychological disorder that tourists (in particular Japanese) sometimes encounter. It's similar to culture shock - they have this romantic, dream-like image of Paris in the media but when they finally get there it doesn't meet their expectations. It can cause delusions, hallucinations, feelings of persecution and apparently people call the Japanese Embassy about their problems pretty regularly.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to study though, especially with my teacher's reluctance to allow us to pursue a topic other than the one she set.

Also it could be much too topical, instead of something that you just talk about? I'd like to hear a second opinion.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on July 26, 2012, 08:20:39 pm
@Poplar (also love the Sawako DP ^^)

To sum up, I think that's a great idea!!
Definitely a very interesting topic and a quick google search leads to many results.

You seem to be a bit confused about how the detailed study component of the speaking exam is actually like. It's a bit of a hybrid between a presentation and a discussion isn't it...
Maybe a simple analogy could be that that it's a bit like a press conference, where you front up and present some information to an audience and based on that information you get asked questions. But in the detailed study, the information you present at the very start is in the one minute introduction, which is what the examiners will base their questions on. (I probably confused you more D:)

Back to your topic, I think it's quite unique and if you research thoroughly, you should score very highly!
I'd recommend trying to find as many Japanese news reports on パリ症候群 as you can, I found them very useful when preparing for my topic. Also you should be able to find statistics, which would also be helpful.
You could structure it like, Introduction, Definition/Explanation of topic, History/Factors leading to Syndrome, Negatives, (Benefits? not any are there), Your Opinion, Proposed Solutions to Problems, Future Issues
I tried moulding the generic structure of a detailed study to suit your topic, but as I don't know much about it, you would obviously categorise it differently based on your research.
Good Luck!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Poplar on July 27, 2012, 03:08:53 pm
Oh, your explanation makes sense. My teacher hasn't talked much about the actual exam yet so I wasn't really sure.
Thanks for all the advice, I'm feeling a bit more confident about it now.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: J0nnyb0i27 on November 09, 2012, 10:45:23 am
Hey Jibba,
I am nearing the end of my exams, with Japanese being the last one on the 19th of November, which gives me just over a week to prepare for. However, because I have had 5 others preceding it, i've naturally neglected study of Japanese in general since the school break-up (October 22nd), and feel like my listening, vocab etc. is very rusty. As I feel really unprepared, what  would you suggest as the best way to prepare in this final week leading up the Japanese written exam? And I don't know whether writing in english or romaji is best for listening tasks- i've just written down in English for the whole year, but do you think I could get used to writing in romaji in a week of practice?

Thanks alot,
Jonny.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 09, 2012, 11:23:52 am
I'd say spend time revising what you already know (like especially vocab and kanji) to make sure you can recall those things like how to write kanji, or the spelling of vocab instantaneously, without having to waste time searching it in the dictionary. As you have a week to study, you can still learn new vocab over that week but best to start learning those ASAP instead of leaving til like the night before. That way you can recall them better.
Vocab is quite important I think, and if you read last years examiners report it mentions students commonly making the mistake of ようやく instead of よやく. (I spent the last minute of my exam changing ようやく to  よやく for what it's worth lol) If you can get a wide range of vocab memorised (and learn it correctly), you will do much better in the exam. If you're using the Wakatta text book, try and learn as much of the vocab in it as you can. My aim was to learn all of them, but by the time of the exam I probably knew about 90-95%. Kanji I knew 100% of the VCE ones, and a few extra ones which I used in the Writing Section.  

With Listening, I would recommend for the ANSWER in ENGLISH listening, to make notes in english but for the ANSWER in JAPANESE to make notes in Roomaji (as close to word for word as what you heard in the dialogue).
In the Answer in English section, the aim is to translate the word into English as accurately as possible. So if they say 料理(りょうり)を作ったことがない it would translate best to 'I haven't cooked before' NOT 'I can't cook' which would be 料理を作ることができない (Commonsense right? But some people still make the mistake)
In the Answer in Japanese section, they are testing how well you can hear the language of Japanese and understand the conversation. All you need to do is copy what they say and write it in the answer section in Japanese. (Although there might be exceptions where they do intend for you to change the way the phrase is worded) The aim of the Answer in Japanese section for listening is NOT to test your grammar, that is done in the Answer in Japanese section for the Reading Comprehension.
With noting in Roomaji, you can get used to doing that in a week of practice. I used to do the same thing, note in English then try translate it back to Japanese, but then I realised how inefficient that was when the purpose of that section is to copy the Japanese they say and write that as your answer

I hope I answered your question, feel free to ask about anything else ~
(I'll probably be active the night before the exam when all the questions may flood XD)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: J0nnyb0i27 on November 09, 2012, 12:53:19 pm
Thanks a lot for the quick reply Jibba- despite having Chemistry this Tuesday, i'd much rather focus on Japanese haha. Cheers mate.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: acciodraco on November 09, 2012, 09:31:35 pm
Hi there :) 

I'm doing Japanese 3/4 next year. However, there are things that really worry me, and that is my vocab, writing and speaking (which is pretty much everything). It takes me forever to formulate what I want to say, and when I do, it's really basic, like year 10 stuff. My school doesn't take Japanese really seriously as there are only a few students, so this year (unit 1/2), I haven't really been paying attention in class. I'm also not feeling really motivated, but my friends tell me to continue it anyway. I've been getting scores ranging from B+ to A+, (I haven't tried, so maybe I might have gotten better). I feel like I have no hope next year.. yet I don't want to let 5 years of Japanese go to waste.. I read what you, Jibba, wrote before and I think I'll be aiming to achieve those things, but honestly, for someone who's Japanese is very, very average, what should I do to improve in all areas and somehow make it out alive and well?   

Thank you~
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 09, 2012, 11:09:48 pm
@acciodraco

I think if you put your mind to it and work hard over the break, you could definitely improve your Japanese level. I've always enjoyed studying Japanese, so I don't really know how to make one start enjoy learning Japanese and become motivated. BUT if you can find something in Japanese culture that makes you want to learn Japanese, that could become your motivation (like for me)

For learning vocab, first I read over vocab in my textbook. Then when those words would pop up in drama, music or anime, they would stick in my memory.

For writing, you need to understand the VCE grammar really well. Watching drama, listening to music also helped me in this area. Even if you just always read English Subtitles, the fact that you are listening to Japanese helps your comprehension and understanding of the language. To improve your writing itself, you could try use something like lang8 (http://lang-8.com/) I didn't really use it myself but it looks like a great forum to improve your writing skills. Basically it's an exchange off, you correct other people's English, Japanese people will correct your Japanese.

For speaking, I had a tutor with whom I had conversation practice on a regular basis (nearly weekly during year 12). To improve speaking, a tutor is the best method as they can point our your mistakes. You could also try to speak with a native or friends in Japanese as much as you can to help you improve. I've never been but I have friends who go to Language Exchanges to help meet other Japanese people and people learning Japanese. http://www.languageconnection.org.au/language-exchanges/ That could also be a good forum to get some speaking practice.

During Year 12, I would always look forward to Japanese class because it seemed like a break from all my other classes (not in the way that we didn't study, but because I enjoyed studying Japanese). Our teacher was really good so everyone always paid attention in class. I was probably lucky to be in that type of situation.
In your case, you still have plenty of time til next year. If you build your vocab and your Japanese ability gradually, you'll start seeing results by the end.
Good luck, it can look daunting but Japanese can be a fun subject to study for (unlike other VCE subjects). It might be a bit more challenging to study for as you can't cram all the work right before the SAC/exam, but with gradual work you can do well.
   
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sheepgomoo on November 09, 2012, 11:27:11 pm
Adding to what jibba said...

I'm a 3/4 student this year, and at the start of the year i was pretty much in your shoes, acciodraco. The only real difference was that I was really motivated to do well because i love jap :). The thing that helped me improve the most was my tutor, in my opinion. I recommend you to start lessons during the holidays and touch up on your basic grammar/vocab first, then proceed to more difficult patterns afterwards. In terms of speaking, in my case, my tutor conversed mainly in jap, save for a few occasions when i needed translation for some difficult words, so my listening and speaking improved quite rapidly (i'd like to think so anyway, haha).

My most difficult hurdle was definitely writing essays, because my sentence structures weren't really taught very well. However, i started writing one essay every two weeks starting from... idk. term 3?, ensuring that my tutor would enforce this "rule" and now my writing has improved a lot.

Oh and for vocab, use anki. I cant stress this enough. It has been my holy grail for this year for all my languages.

Long story short; get a tutor :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 09, 2012, 11:30:54 pm
I agree with xoangelicc, I became a lot better myself when I got a tutor! They can be expensive, but they will definitely improve your Japanese and give you confidence in yourself~
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sheepgomoo on November 10, 2012, 12:07:40 am
^ there are some that arent especially expensive (compared to English anyway *cringe) and still be very effective with improving your jap. For example, my tutor was actually a uni student, and for me i found that their teaching style was effective for me. Of course, you might not be so lucky as to find one suited to your needs first time round, but in any case, generally, any tutor can set you off on the right track is what i think :)

And i might be going off by myself for saying this but I'm sure that jibba (hope you dont mind!) and other previous japanese students would be happy to help you with any problems via pm or otherwise :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: acciodraco on November 10, 2012, 11:09:17 am
Thanks Jibba and xoangelicc for your feedback. :D I'm going to return to my tutor, and next years it's a class of min 4 students, but is it better to have one-on-one tutoring?

I do hope it's not too late, because I feel like Japanese has to be a gradual thing, and I've already wasted so much time. I guess I do like Japanese, but at school it's just so :( The teacher is non-native, and literally teaches from the book. But as you said, I should probably watch Japanese shows and check out those other resources you both suggested.

Btw, I'm going to Japan for ten days in Dec for a holiday. It's not much, but is there anything I could do to somehow make it more worthwhile? 

Thank you

 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on November 10, 2012, 12:02:00 pm
Btw, I'm going to Japan for ten days in Dec for a holiday. It's not much, but is there anything I could do to somehow make it more worthwhile? 

It sounds ridiculously obvious, but actually engage and interact with Japanese people. If you're travelling in a group of English-speakers, it can be easy for you to just stick with your little group and close off outside interaction without even realising it. For people who have trouble with socialising, one of the easiest ways is probably for you to sit in your hotel or hostel common room in the evening by yourself, doing something that makes it obvious you speak Japanese, even if it's just flicking through a travel brochure or something. In truth, Japanese people love the chance to talk to foreigners, but they're deterred by the thought of an awkward language barrier. If they know you can speak Japanese, then the hard part is over; they'll likely look for the opportunity to talk to you, so make sure you create that opportunity - no headphones in ears, no looking completely engrossed in your activity of choice, etc. Don't talk about whaling or politics or religion. Do ask them about their hometown and their job.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sheepgomoo on November 10, 2012, 01:05:00 pm
Also - notice your surroundings and see if you are interested in things like convenience stores and fast food restaurants, vending machines, etc. and take lots of photos! I'm not sure about the arrangements regarding how your school deals with detailed studies, but if you're very interested in general topics like those and are able to write a considerable amount, I'm pretty sure they'll let you do what you want :)

Your experience should definitely be worthwhile. I mean... it wont only help with your speaking and jap skills in general, you also get information for your detailed study and a topic to talk about for general convo! I think you're really really lucky and I'm actually super jealous of you at the moment :P

Its definitely not too late! If you enjoy jap and have the drive to do well you'll be fine. I pretty much was/am in the same boat: i felt that my jap class was redundant, because the teacher was teaching very slowly for the kids who couldn't keep up. It was only after getting a tutor that i really got into jap. And regarding the tutor; if you've had them before and didnt notice a big difference, I suggest finding a one-to-one tutor. It really depends on your learning style though. If its more effective for you to be in a group, then so be it. Good luck and have fun ^^
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 10, 2012, 05:42:55 pm
To add onto what Fyrefly and xoangelicc said,

If you have the chance, I would recommend going to Osaka! The people on the street there are much more friendly than the people in Tokyo (my personal opinion). When I went to Osaka, people on the street would come to talk to us, try their best to speak English when the conversation got stuck and were really friendly. In Tokyo, especially the city areas like Shinjuku, people seem to be too busy with their own lives. But that just depends on who you happen to bump into xD. Definitely recommend going to Youth Hostels common rooms like Fyrefly said. Japanese university students regularly come to youth hostels to practice their English and talk to foreigners in Japanese (if they can speak it).

Eat a lot of Japanese food and try speak as much Japanese as possible! 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on November 10, 2012, 09:54:53 pm
If you have the chance, I would recommend going to Osaka! The people on the street there are much more friendly than the people in Tokyo (my personal opinion). When I went to Osaka, people on the street would come to talk to us, try their best to speak English when the conversation got stuck and were really friendly. In Tokyo, especially the city areas like Shinjuku, people seem to be too busy with their own lives. But that just depends on who you happen to bump into xD.

This is SO true. I actually started to type something about Osakans being awesome and more personable than Tokyoites, but I figured I'd already typed out that giant block of text and should stop ^^;
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: acciodraco on November 12, 2012, 01:05:04 pm
I see, I see. Being open and active is the key. I'll try my best to do the things you've stated. All of your responses got me somewhat excited for this trip haha.

I don't know how to thank everyone for your quick and very informative answers, but I really appreciate them all. Thanks! :D
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: hongs- on November 13, 2012, 06:37:27 pm
Just a random quick question to reconfirm..

How long should I spend on each section ? Seeing as though listening during the exam goes for about 30 minutes, therefore an hour for writing and 30 minutes on reading right ? :/
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 13, 2012, 08:35:55 pm
The suggested time is
Listening: 30 mins
Reading: 40 mins
Writing: 50 mins

Here's how I planned to do the exam
Listening: 30
Reading: 40
Writing: 25-30
Checking Everything: 20-25

In the actual exam I spent more than 45 mins on Reading but finished the writing in 25-30 mins. So I had about 15-20 mins to recheck everything (which I think is crucial)

I think you should aim to finish Section 3: Writing within 30 mins because it's only 400-500 ji. It doesn't take that long to actually write that, it mainly takes time thinking what to write about and how to use grammar patterns. Try and decide which topic you are going to choose in the 15 minute reading time at the start. I chose to do the story and spent roughly 5 mins planning for it and thinking what grammar I could use. I also tried to prepare for another topic as a backup if I changed my mind. As soon as reading time was over, I jotted a few points down as a plan for my writing while waiting for the listening to start. (I also added to it in the breaks between dialogues for Listening in English)

How fast you can finish the writing section is dependent on your own ability in Japanese (ie: the amount of vocab you know so you don't need to rely heavily on the dictionary, your ability to translate your thoughts into Japanese). You can definitely practice to improve your speed. I practiced writing essays withing 25-30 mins leading up to the exam. I wrote around 6-8 pieces and they helped a lot ^^     

To sum up, I think the time you leave for checking at the end is really important (Probably the main reason I was able to score as high as I did).
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: hongs- on November 14, 2012, 12:20:44 pm
Ohh okay thank you so much! :)
I kind of didn't really consider checking time before, just as long as I can write something well in section 3..
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: hongs- on November 15, 2012, 05:11:29 pm
How much grammar patterns would you aim for in writing to get a high mark ? I recently did one today, and surprisingly incorporated about 22ish grammar patterns :) I wrote it in about half an hour I think


And for an essay structure, is it kind of similar to a report type? Would you have to put your name on the second line?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 15, 2012, 08:46:57 pm
With Grammar patterns I would say 12-13 as a minimum. A good amount is 15+
22 is plenty! I probably had about ~18 in my exam
Well done! If you can finish the writing within 30 minutes, you will do very well in the final exam :)

You're correct that an essay is pretty much the same as a report style. You put your name (fictional) on the second line and leave one space after the name (so the last box of the second line is blank)

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: hongs- on November 15, 2012, 10:38:55 pm
Thank you!! :D I feel a little confident knowing that, haha.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: acciodraco on November 15, 2012, 11:56:48 pm
Going slightly off topic here but, I'll be away for most of December.. will I be behind for year 12? ):
Did you do a lot before you entered year 12?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 16, 2012, 12:03:53 am
I don't think you'll be that behind (plus going to japan counts as the best preparation ^^)

I don't think I did too much but....
Kanji was my weakness, so before Year 12 began I learnt all the VCE required Kanji
I also tried to learn a bit of vocab from the textbook
I think I also had my detailed study topic chosen over the summer and started a little bit of research in English (not too much though)
What I mainly did was watch a lot of japanese drama and anime :)
Doing that helped me a lot as well ^^
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: acciodraco on November 16, 2012, 12:10:39 am
That sounds pretty good, I'll probs do that too. How about for your other subjects? Ahaha I just started an anime called 'K'. I don't watch anime often, so I don't really know what's good/bad, but so far it's pretty cray. Loving it xD 
 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 17, 2012, 10:57:13 pm
It might be a bit too late with the exam so soon, but I updated the first post with my exam strategy and some tips.

@acciodraco
I studied Japanese the most over the summer break. I did a little bit of Methods/Spesh exercises but thought it would be better to put a lot of work into Japanese before the semester started. When the semester did start, I was busy with SACs from my other subjects so didn't have time to do tedious things like learning vocab for Japanese. I watched Drama all the time though :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: JEStarr on November 18, 2012, 05:17:14 pm
last minute but how strict are japanese assessors in their marking? especially for reading section where (usually the last question) requires you to sorta make a conclusion (as in a question where you can't really just copy off the given text)? e.g. in 2010 exam, the last question in the reading section. does your answer have to be exactly the same as what's shown in the assessor's report?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: EvangelionZeta on November 18, 2012, 05:31:43 pm
last minute but how strict are japanese assessors in their marking? especially for reading section where (usually the last question) requires you to sorta make a conclusion (as in a question where you can't really just copy off the given text)? e.g. in 2010 exam, the last question in the reading section. does your answer have to be exactly the same as what's shown in the assessor's report?

I think there is some leeway, but usually you want it to be as close as possible to that answer :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: JEStarr on November 18, 2012, 07:18:31 pm
last minute but how strict are japanese assessors in their marking? especially for reading section where (usually the last question) requires you to sorta make a conclusion (as in a question where you can't really just copy off the given text)? e.g. in 2010 exam, the last question in the reading section. does your answer have to be exactly the same as what's shown in the assessor's report?

I think there is some leeway, but usually you want it to be as close as possible to that answer :)

ahk thanks
also are articles (for section 3) written in casual form?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 18, 2012, 07:41:05 pm
I would say the closer you are to their answer, the higher you will score. So they will be quite strict IMO.

You don't have to use exactly the same words they use but you must suggest the same idea. (ie: in the 2010 response, Author wants students to enter universities based own their own interests and career rather than entering universities just because they are famous). In the 2010 exam, they basically wanted a summary of the last paragraph (which showed the author's reasoning) in one sentence to show you understood it.

Also I remember when I did that exam for practice, i got confused with the use of えらんでもらいたい to end the sentence. I myself got the incorrect meaning when doing it in class, I thought it was saying that's what IS happening now. But of course the use of えらんでもらいたい means that is what the author wants to happen in the future. Look out for the endings of sentences!

They didn't have such a question last year, so can't say for sure what will happen tomorrow. But good luck!

Try not to panic. Even with those conclusion type questions, the answer is still in the text. I would suggest to underline words in the text that look relevant (ie: in 2010 exam, 勉強の目的 and 将来の仕事) and use those in your response.
Also look how in responses in the assessors report, the grammar in the text has been changed.
有名な大学ではなくて is altered to 有名な大学に行くより in the assessors report.
きめたほうがいい is altered to えらんだほうがいい

If you can think of tweaking the wording and usage of grammar in the text, that will give you extra marks.

Also, you can write articles in plain form (ie: ending with ~だ、~ある). Don't use casual spoken form as it is a writing piece (ie: ~ちゃった、~なきゃ). The exception is unless you are using something as an example and put the casual speech in quotation marks.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: JEStarr on November 18, 2012, 09:16:59 pm
I would say the closer you are to their answer, the higher you will score. So they will be quite strict IMO.

You don't have to use exactly the same words they use but you must suggest the same idea. (ie: in the 2010 response, Author wants students to enter universities based own their own interests and career rather than entering universities just because they are famous). In the 2010 exam, they basically wanted a summary of the last paragraph (which showed the author's reasoning) in one sentence to show you understood it.

Also I remember when I did that exam for practice, i got confused with the use of えらんでもらいたい to end the sentence. I myself got the incorrect meaning when doing it in class, I thought it was saying that's what IS happening now. But of course the use of えらんでもらいたい means that is what the author wants to happen in the future. Look out for the endings of sentences!

They didn't have such a question last year, so can't say for sure what will happen tomorrow. But good luck!

Try not to panic. Even with those conclusion type questions, the answer is still in the text. I would suggest to underline words in the text that look relevant (ie: in 2010 exam, 勉強の目的 and 将来の仕事) and use those in your response.
Also look how in responses in the assessors report, the grammar in the text has been changed.
有名な大学ではなくて is altered to 有名な大学に行くより in the assessors report.
きめたほうがいい is altered to えらんだほうがいい

If you can think of tweaking the wording and usage of grammar in the text, that will give you extra marks.

Also, you can write articles in plain form (ie: ending with ~だ、~ある). Don't use casual spoken form as it is a writing piece (ie: ~ちゃった、~なきゃ). The exception is unless you are using something as an example and put the casual speech in quotation marks.

yeah i was a bit confused about the もらいたい part as well after reading the assessor's report.
and thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sheepgomoo on November 18, 2012, 09:30:23 pm
last minute questions here as well :X

生徒 and 学生

How are they different and how should i translate them?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 19, 2012, 11:58:45 am
@xoangellic

sorry too late, but they both translate to student

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: FAyres on June 15, 2013, 09:02:20 pm
Hi Jibba,

I'm doing Japanese 3/4 this year and we are starting to look towards the detailed study. Now our teacher said that she wants us to choose a topic that we will enjoy and have interest in because it will make the research much funner and the learning alot easier. I asked my teacher if I could do anime and she said I could but because it's quite a popular topic, I would need to find something unique and really interesting about it that would grab the examiners attention. So, I was wondering if you might have any ideas for an anime-related detailed study that is unique and very different???

Also, my speaking skills come close, but my listening skills are the worst. I find that when we do listening practice in class I might hear something and start writing it down but in the process of doing so I lose a sentence or so worth of information and then become lost in the conversation and everything just falls down hill. I hope I make sense. What strategies would you employ and how much listening practise do you do a week?

I noticed that the last post you did was November last year so I'm not so sure that you will reply but I thought I would give it a try! ;D
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 16, 2013, 12:43:22 am
@FAyres

Hey, anime is quite a popular topic. There's a lot of sub-topics to choose from in anime. You could do something like compare anime/manga to american comics, look at the types of main characters that appear in each and compare them. One of my uni friends, compared the types of heroes in comics with manga. ie: Superman v Goku. :P How strong they were, who did they fight for, etc.
Or you could look at the types of anime/manga that target different age groups. Look into the history of manga, and talk about the 'father' of anime/manga Tezuka Osamu. There are lot of options, find something that interests you.

With listening, I've repeated it a lot already if you read my first post, but watching J-drama and listening to J-music really helped me with my listening skills. Other than that try learn as much VCE vocab from your textbook as you can. That will help with following the conversation in Listening tests and help you to not get lost. Once you learn the vocab, watch drama and try look out for words you learnt. As you hear them being spoken in conversation, they become easier to recognise, will stick in your head and will help you write down notes faster during the listening sections.

 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sheepgomoo on June 18, 2013, 02:49:04 pm
@FAyres
With listening, I've repeated it a lot already if you read my first post, but watching J-drama and listening to J-music really helped me with my listening skills. Other than that try learn as much VCE vocab from your textbook as you can. That will help with following the conversation in Listening tests and help you to not get lost. Once you learn the vocab, watch drama and try look out for words you learnt. As you hear them being spoken in conversation, they become easier to recognise, will stick in your head and will help you write down notes faster during the listening sections.


this.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Inhibition on June 18, 2013, 09:12:05 pm
Hey jibba, just curious.
How did you prepare for your oral exam? Specifically the casual conversation component?
Did you just free-ball it or did you have a script which you rote-learnt and memorised?
Currently I'm horrible at speaking (can't string a sentence together) but am pretty good at writing it down and then speaking it. I find it difficult to come up with a reply in English, and then translating it into Japanese, whilst keeping the sentence fairly sophisticated. I know I dont have the luxury of time in the oral, so what are some tips you can give that will improve my oral skills?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on June 18, 2013, 10:17:51 pm
Hey jibba, just curious.
How did you prepare for your oral exam? Specifically the casual conversation component?
Did you just free-ball it or did you have a script which you rote-learnt and memorised?
Currently I'm horrible at speaking (can't string a sentence together) but am pretty good at writing it down and then speaking it. I find it difficult to come up with a reply in English, and then translating it into Japanese, whilst keeping the sentence fairly sophisticated. I know I dont have the luxury of time in the oral, so what are some tips you can give that will improve my oral skills?

I'm not jibba, and I hope jibba gives you an answer too, but I actually think your problem might be something quite fundamental.

You don't think in Japanese, do you?

Have you ever tried understanding something in Japanese and responding without mentally translating it into English in your head first? If you establish an ability to think in Japanese, you shouldn't have to code switch. Code switching is probably what's taking you such a long time to answer, so if you can stop having to do that then you should notice a huge improvement in your oral skills.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 18, 2013, 11:13:49 pm
@inhibition@Fyrefly

I agree with Fyrefly, you need to practice THINKING in Japanese! She's right, if you can think in Japanese it helps you answer much more quickly.

To the main question, yes I prepared a lot of script for my oral exam and had it all memorised and rote-learned. I also had the problem of being unable to think of answers in Japanese on the spot during Year 12 (Unless you have a native background, nearly everyone should have this problem! :P). To make up for it I memorised a lot of material. By the end of it, I was able to use the content I memorised to answer the specific questions asked by the examiners.
During the Oral Exam, they'll start by asking you basic questions, which you would have prepared answers for. But if you are able to answer them fluently, they'll ask you harder questions which you can't have prepared for to see how you will deal with them. (If they do this, it's a good sign! It shows that they think you are good).

You don't really need to come up with a sophisticated answer to do well, you just need to be able to show that you understood the question, and show the ability to answer it.
For example, I was asked about the AFL (something I didn't consider they would ask me about). But I just simply responded that I followed X team, and was disappointed that they lost. Nothing that sophisticated, but it showed I was able to think on my feet and answer what they asked.

Tips to improve oral skills?
As Fyrefly suggested, try thinking in Japanese. I used to run mock speaking exams in my head, ask myself questions they might ask and practice saying the responses out loud. 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: FAyres on June 20, 2013, 08:16:39 pm
Hey, just on the whole "thinking in Japanese" thing, this is a bit of a stupid question but how exactly does one go about doing that? When you hear something in Japanese don't you instantly try and translate it to English in your head?

Also, my Japanese teacher would like me to find some articles on the influences/impacts that anime has on people but they need to be IN JAPANESE - not English. Do you know where I could find some? I've tried typing in Japanese but am not having any luck :/

Thaaanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on June 20, 2013, 10:24:15 pm
Hey, just on the whole "thinking in Japanese" thing, this is a bit of a stupid question but how exactly does one go about doing that? When you hear something in Japanese don't you instantly try and translate it to English in your head?

No, personally I very rarely translate in my head. Understanding and translating are two entirely different skills. I was actually really bad at translating until I took a translation unit at uni this semester.

What you're doing in your head currently is called code switching: translating between Japanese and English.
People who don't need to mentally code switch have a fully developed "Japanese mode" and an "English mode", each of which are fully functional "modes" on their own.
Right now, you haven't yet fully established a Japanese mode in your mind, and you keep falling back on your English mode.

I want to make something clear: you don't need to be fluent in a language to have a "mode".
I'm sure you already have a Japanese mode in some capacity.
If you want me to prove this to you, read through the next few phrases as fast as you can:

がんばってください。
はい、がんばります。
一、二、三。

If you have to, you can read through that without mentally translating it, right?

Your Japanese mode will improve as your overall Japanese ability improves, but I think a good way to develop your ability to think in Japanese is to put yourself in situations where you must understand something without giving yourself the time to translate it.

For other tips, just google "think in a foreign language". There are heaps of suggestions, such as mentally labelling the objects around you, or having mental conversations with yourself ("internal dialogue"). You can improve your oral skills further by having these mental conversations with yourself outloud instead. I talk to myself in the shower all the time, even now as an advanced level Japanese student, ha ha.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: FAyres on June 21, 2013, 06:10:08 pm
Thank you so much for this Fyrefly I feel determined to develop this skill. I will also look into line town because I love anime and watch things like from naruto to k-on but I need subtitles for them, but there are occasions when I understand what is being said. So it's be great to watch his anime without subtitles and be able to understand most of it! Of course it may be a bit different for me and I might understand like 70%, or maybe it is very simple and I'm underestimating it!!! Thanks again :D
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 21, 2013, 09:28:10 pm
Great advice from Fyrefly, couldn't have have explained it better myself!

With finding resources, maybe search for English articles and see if they reference Japanese sources. Or start at wikipedia, and look through their references.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Archie01 on July 08, 2013, 01:39:40 pm
Hi!!

Could someone help me with ideas on the negative things associated with vending machines in Japan?
So far I have that some vending machines have alcohol and cigarettes which are open for anyone to buy - ie kids/ teenagers could buy them.

If someone could help me out that would be great! ;D
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on July 08, 2013, 04:19:58 pm
@Archie01

Keep researching you could find a lot.
Some other common ones would be the environmental issue through widespread energy use, theft from machines, etc.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on July 08, 2013, 08:15:16 pm
Err... The cigarette machines require some sort of digital proof of age card to purchase from them. I don't remember seeing an alcohol vending machine, but I assume they're the same.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on July 08, 2013, 09:21:25 pm
Yea, they require an identification card nowadays, but in the past they didn't, which made it easier for minors to buy alcohol and cigarettes.
There are still some alcohol vending machines which don't require any form of ID (personal experience :P).
 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on July 08, 2013, 10:34:32 pm
Yeah, but liquor laws aren't really enforced in Japan anyway.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: FAyres on July 17, 2013, 10:32:28 pm
Hi Jibba,

With the detailed study, with the solutions part of it, if you have found 3 problems or 4 or whatever to your detailed study do you come up with three/four solutions for each problem?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on July 17, 2013, 11:01:22 pm
@FAyres

Yea, you should try have a solution to each problem you have identified.
The examiners could ask you about any of the them, so it's always better to be prepared :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sonnypls on July 31, 2013, 11:47:11 am
This response is a year late but Monash Japanese levels 11 & 12 isn't very hard, it's actually just time-consuming. You don't need to have a strong grasp of Japanese. Trust me it's a lot easier than Japanese 9 & 10. The exam for level 12 was such a breeze, you can complete it using an electronic dictionary so it's all good!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: FAyres on August 25, 2013, 02:54:08 pm
I've been wanting to know this for a while, but why is Japan such a safe country? I saw some statistics that said it's one of the safest places in the world, so I'm interested to know why that is the case.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: FAyres on August 25, 2013, 02:55:20 pm
I don't mean "why" as in, because people don't steal and there aren't many robberies and things. But I'd like to know why not many people steal etc. - along that line of things.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on August 25, 2013, 03:48:22 pm
I don't mean "why" as in, because people don't steal and there aren't many robberies and things. But I'd like to know why not many people steal etc. - along that line of things.

I've attached a scholarly article on the issue that I hope addresses your question, but there isn't really a simple answer.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on August 25, 2013, 08:34:19 pm
Great article Fyrefly! Thanks for the share

@FAyres To answer your question, I think one of the main reasons would be the societal factor, where people in Japanese society just know it's wrong to steal. Also their cultural trait in showing respect to each other might also be a factor.
I've heard things like Japanese cars not having locks in the past and locks only being installed to export overseas to cater for foreigners.
Also Japanese houses are often left unlocked, or don't have locks at all. (Just hearsay which I've heard, but you might be able to find sources for these)

I think you will find a lot more answers in the article Fyfefly has linked :) Good luck for your detailed study!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: FAyres on September 27, 2013, 09:30:16 pm
Hello again!

I was just wondering if anyone could give their opinion on why it is that Japan has all these really interesting vending machines (even though not as common as beverage/snack vending machines though obviously) such as umbrella ones and even underwear ones, but Australia doesn't.

(My Oral exam is the first day back term 4 which is 10 days! Very stressful  :'( )

Thanks.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on September 27, 2013, 10:20:55 pm
Hello again!

I was just wondering if anyone could give their opinion on why it is that Japan has all these really interesting vending machines (even though not as common as beverage/snack vending machines though obviously) such as umbrella ones and even underwear ones, but Australia doesn't.

(My Oral exam is the first day back term 4 which is 10 days! Very stressful  :'( )

Thanks.

(Disclaimer: Sorry, I'm an accountant.)

Economic benefit of a vending machine exceeds its opportunity cost.

Cost of vending machine is low: electricity, initial purchase of machine, maintenance.
** Unlike Australia, vandalism is very rare in Japan, so maintenance of machines is cheap.

Relative to costs, the benefits of vending machine are high: 24/7 source of income, don't have to pay staff wages because it's automated.

At the end of the day, a vending machine only takes up about one square metre of space. There aren't many other things you could use that space for that have a better income producing capacity. Because of this, there are a huge number of vending machines in Japan.

As for the variety, Japanese vending machine owners try to think of ways to differentiate their vending machine from all the others to increase profit. There are so many vending machines in Japan that they can often be seen lined up one next to the other. If there are 25 drink vending machines along a street but only one ice cream vending machine, then the ice cream one will probably get more business than any individual drink machine.

TL;DR: The 'interesting' vending machines are the result of product differentiation, because there are so many vending machines in Japan. Vending machine owners are trying to get people to buy specifically from their vending machine by offering a product the other nearby vending machines don't have.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on September 30, 2013, 03:32:27 pm
@FAyres
I agree with a lot of what Fyfefly says, they are great from an economic view. 

Why Australia doesn't have such machines, I think that is due to factors as such as the higher crime rate in Australia.
Selling more expensive items in vending machines would be less practical in Australia. If you need to have a surveillance camera over every vending machine or have the vending machine set up indoors, you may as well sell the item in a store. The lower crime rate in Japan helps this so that's why vending machines are always found outside in Japan (as opposed to inside shopping centres)

Umbrellas are pretty cheap though, I'm not sure why we don't have any umbrella vending machines. I think maybe because you can find them in almost any supermarket, $2 shop, convenience store anyway.
Potentially, you could say that Australians trust vending machine less than the Japanese, so they would rather buy an umbrella in person than have to deal with a broken vending machine that has eaten their money. Might be something to do with the differences in society in relation to technology.

I have seen some vending machines around in Australia selling clothes, or the one selling bike parts in MC.
The number of them is very low though.

To answer your question I think the crime rate would be the main reason.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: acciodraco on October 02, 2013, 11:54:51 pm
Hello!

I have a few questions about the oral exam.

1. If I start a sentence but then want to start again, what's the easiest way to apologise and restart?
2. What is the best phrase to say "As I said before.."
3. Is it okay to smile and be really happy (because I do better when I'm giddy and semi-hyper lol ;___; )

Thank you!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on October 03, 2013, 12:13:59 am
1. Just say すみません and restart
2. You can say 先ほども言ったかもしれませんが。。。(then go onto your phrase)
3. Go for it! it helps you relax and it helps the examiners as well if they are talking with someone who's not super nervous.
 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: acciodraco on October 03, 2013, 12:37:09 pm
@jibba

Thanks for the quick response!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: josiephin on October 06, 2013, 03:19:37 pm
Hello!
I'm currently doing japanese, and my oral exam is in two days (this tuesday - eep!)
I'm feeling very unprepared, especially since, because my folio from media didn't go to plan, I've been a bit more stressed than usual, and that's gone over into japanese. because, for example, for our oral SAC, since it was amidst all the troubles with my media folio, when my teacher asked me a question in it, I completely blanked, and that caused me to get seriously stressed in the middle, and it was silent for about 30 seconds (well it felt like 30 seconds, but i'm not sure). my results were okay, but yeah. my teacher hasn't been that helpful with this, so I was wondering for some help.

1. if I reacted to something they asked like that (completely blanking), even after saying もう一どう言って下さい、would it be best to say ごめん、分かりません / しつもんがちょっと分からないんです。and hope they ask something else that I do understand?
2. how long is too long a pause in a sentence (even with あいづち), and how many times is too many times to keep using すみません、もう一ど始めます。 etc
3. if I need to relax myself in the exam (like breathing slowly) is that okay? like breathing slowly while saying あいづち or rephrasing the question.
4. also, i'm very a very strong italian background, and I tend to use my hands when I'm talking a lot, and I know that's a big no-no in formal japanese situations. I've been practicing holding my hands together on my lap, and making sure they don't move. if I do happen to use my hands (only for a little bit though) would that affect my score or not?

I know these questions are a bit weird, but I would be grateful for any kind of response :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on October 06, 2013, 04:10:47 pm
1. If you cannot understand the second time, I think a better way to move on is to identify the word/phrase which you can't understand.
ie: すみませんが、「[insert word/phrase]」のいみが分かりません。分かりやすくせつめいしていただけませんか。OR かんたんにせつめいして下さい。
That way the examiners will understand what the problem is as well.
2. Depends on the question, but think about how English conversations with your friends. How long a pause becomes too long, unnatural and awkward. I think instead of saying もう一ど始めます, just saying すみません is more natural. Probably you can say すみません 2-3 times in a row before it starts reflecting badly. [I think I said it a few times in my oral when I messed up]
3. I don't see any problem with that. It's better to try relax yourself than be super nervous throughout your oral.
4. I don't think hand gestures will affect your scoring, but I guess that would depend on the individual examiner. You usually have a foreign and native examiner. If you think using hand gestures will help communicate what you are saying, I don't see a problem with it. [Sorry, can't really answer this one as I'm not an examiner]

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: josiephin on October 06, 2013, 04:34:37 pm
@jibba

thank you for the fast response!! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: tommyboy on November 10, 2013, 08:12:34 am
Hello Jibba-san! I'm a current student of Japanese, and I love it! However I struggle a little with the listening section. Any tips on how to get as much info from the listening as I can? I have 8 days until my exam, and I would spend each day listening to Japanese, but unfortunately I'm alternating days between French as well. :S But anyway, if there anything I can do during the exam to help me?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 10, 2013, 02:55:16 pm
@tommyboy

It's hard to really cram listening as it is a skill developed over time rather than actual knowledge, but what you can do is cram some of the vocab in your textbook (Wakatta right?). I knew about 90-95% of the vocabulary in Wakatta, and that helped me a lot during listening.
Sometimes you get lost in dialogues, but it's important to persevere and try write down something even if you did not understand that word which was said, as that can lead to you getting the answer later (ie: looking it up in the dictionary, or just understanding it later).
I write in roomaji as its faster for me, but take notes however you find it more efficient.

Watch bits of japanese dramas and things on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6s2ijTvsPc
It might teach you something (like above video), and will help you remember vocab you saw in your textbook if it pops up. Try listen to the dialogue first then read the subtitles for words you didn't understand (if you can).
Lastly, of course do all the practice exams you can, you can try do JLPT 4 or 5 listening if you run out of VCE SL exams. Or do the listenings in Wakatta textbook, or download the Genki textbook (using google).
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Inhibition on November 12, 2013, 10:26:01 pm
@tommyboy

It's hard to really cram listening as it is a skill developed over time rather than actual knowledge, but what you can do is cram some of the vocab in your textbook (Wakatta right?). I knew about 90-95% of the vocabulary in Wakatta, and that helped me a lot during listening.
Sometimes you get lost in dialogues, but it's important to persevere and try write down something even if you did not understand that word which was said, as that can lead to you getting the answer later (ie: looking it up in the dictionary, or just understanding it later).
I write in roomaji as its faster for me, but take notes however you find it more efficient.

Watch bits of japanese dramas and things on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6s2ijTvsPc
It might teach you something (like above video), and will help you remember vocab you saw in your textbook if it pops up. Try listen to the dialogue first then read the subtitles for words you didn't understand (if you can).
Lastly, of course do all the practice exams you can, you can try do JLPT 4 or 5 listening if you run out of VCE SL exams. Or do the listenings in Wakatta textbook, or download the Genki textbook (using google).

Could you post a link to that?
Also, any tips on how to answer in Jap? Both for listening and reading. Do you recommend answering it word from word or sumarising the main points and putting it in your own words (much harder imo)
Many thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 12, 2013, 10:44:55 pm
@Inhibition
(I'll PM you the link to Genki [against rules to post], i don't have listening files for Wakatta)

For answering in Japanese Listening, don't put in your own words, copy the grammars and words the way they say it.
For answering in Japanese Reading, put in your own words, change the grammars if you can and it's appropriate, and summarise the main points (usually that's what the final question will make you do)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Inhibition on November 12, 2013, 11:49:09 pm
@ jibba

Thanks for the speedy reply!
In re: Jap listening and answering in Jap though, how is it humanly possible to take in all that info AND still remember the way they said it.
You must have had some super memory
Also, if the recording for the listening task ends and we fail to produce an answer, what do you recommend we do? Panic? Guess an answer?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 13, 2013, 10:00:32 am
Haha yea, well it's more of a skill. The more vocabulary you know, the better your comprehension of the spoken phrase will be (and the more that will stick in your head).
Also, that's why you take notes like crazy, so you can pull as much info out as possible.

If you didn't get it, at least write something down from your notes and use your gut to 'fill in the blanks'.
eg: When i did my exam, I didn't quite get one of the answers but I correctly guessed 'Mother's Day' because he was doing something for his mother. 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: acciodraco on November 13, 2013, 07:21:51 pm
Hello again!

Just wondering, what is the best way to study for the exam next week?

Thanks :P
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Inhibition on November 13, 2013, 11:50:19 pm
Haha yea, well it's more of a skill. The more vocabulary you know, the better your comprehension of the spoken phrase will be (and the more that will stick in your head).
Also, that's why you take notes like crazy, so you can pull as much info out as possible.

If you didn't get it, at least write something down from your notes and use your gut to 'fill in the blanks'.
eg: When i did my exam, I didn't quite get one of the answers but I correctly guessed 'Mother's Day' because he was doing something for his mother.
Lol when I do take notes like crazy (I'm a pretty fast writer) I tend to write everything I here. How do I restrain myself so that I only take note of the important stuff?
Also, taking notes for responding in Jap is really challenging. I have a tendency to translate it to Eng in my head. How do you take notes in roomaji AND have some idea of the sentence structure that you're going to write?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 16, 2013, 10:31:32 am
I get what you mean about taking notes about everything you hear, I do that too. Maybe you can do that first listening, and second listening focus on filling in what you missed.

With the 'knowing the sentence structure of what you're going to write', with listening in Japanese, you should copy the sentence structure exactly the way they say it. The main purpose of that section is not to test your grammar, but your listening, so you don't need to re-arrange the grammar/sentence structure. So if they say '~した方がいい', copy that in the answers. Maybe you can add like '~さんは~~した方がいいと言ったそうです' if you want to use a bit more grammar, which might show that you understanding is better.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Inhibition on November 18, 2013, 12:29:49 am
@ jibba
Just wanted to thank you for all you've done

To the 2013 Japanese cohort I wish you the best of luck for the exam!!!

Ganbatte~
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 19, 2013, 01:06:08 am
@ jibba
Just wanted to thank you for all you've done

To the 2013 Japanese cohort I wish you the best of luck for the exam!!!

Ganbatte~

Thanks :)
Otsukaresama! Hope you all did the best you could in the final exam.


 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on February 17, 2014, 08:50:20 pm
Do you have any advice for a year 11 Japanese student who wants to improve their speaking?

My old Japanese teacher used to do alot of speaking exercises in class/games etc, but in my new class this year we just learn from the book and never do any speaking activities, so I'm worried that my speaking will not be strong in Year 12!

Also, can someone please explain to me when you have to use 'place + に’ and ' place + で’.
I have asked alot of my Japanese teachers that question, but the answer always seems to be a bit vague.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Poplar on February 17, 2014, 11:09:20 pm
Also, can someone please explain to me when you have to use 'place + に’ and ' place + で’.
I have asked alot of my Japanese teachers that question, but the answer always seems to be a bit vague.
Thanks!

I'm sure jibba can give better advice on speaking than me, but I can try to explain で and に.

Basically you use で for when you're doing something somewhere.
図書館で本を読みます。  =   I read a book at the library.

に is used when an action is not actually taking place.
きのう、デパートに行きました。  =   Yesterday, I went to the department store. (You went to the store, not doing something at the store)
東京に住んでいます。   =    I live in Tokyo. (住む, like いるand ある, is not considered an action)
ねこはだいどころにいます。   =   The cat is in the kitchen.
ペンはペンケースの中にあります。   =   The pen is inside the pencil case. (いる and ある always go with に)

Also, you use 'time + に' for saying the time something happened or will happen.
毎日、8時に家を出ます。   =    Every day, I leave the house at 8.

This one uses both に (for a time word) and で (for a place where an action takes place):
12時にカフェでコーヒーを飲みました。   =    At 12:00, I drank coffee at a cafe.

...I hope that made some sense? Haha
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on February 18, 2014, 12:16:57 am
Great explanation! Just adding on that, like Poplar said, で is used when there is an action going on at a location. Also you can use it when there is an event going on at that place.
ie: ソチでオリンピックが開かれています。(The Olympics are being held in Sochi) OR クラスでテストがあります (There is a test in class).

For に it's used mainly when there is something existing at a place.
ie: 駅の前にきっさてんがあります (There's a cafe in front of the station)

You can even use it for people
ie:学校に日本語の先生がいます。(There is a Japanese teacher at school)
But compare with で
学校で先生がじゅぎょうを教えています。(At school, the teacher teaches the class)

In the first sentence, the teacher exists at the school so you use に
In the second sentence, the teacher does the action of teaching at the school that's why you use で
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on February 18, 2014, 12:25:05 am
Do you have any advice for a year 11 Japanese student who wants to improve their speaking?


Write a small self-introduction, and just general info about your hobbies, etc.
Then go on Language exchanges and say what you've written as a start, then try to communicate as best u can. You can do them in the city, or if you want, you can do them through Skype, etc. Check out japanguide.com 

The best way to practice is to talk with Japanese people.
I personally never did language exchanges until I went to uni. But I found I improved a lot, by making friends with Japanese people.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 04, 2014, 07:27:22 pm
We are learning the ’そうです。’ pattern in class right now, to describe what things look like and I was confused as to whether these were right or wrong.

It doesn't look like it will rain:
雨がふらなそうです。

It did't look like it was going to rain:
雨がふらなそうでした

It doesn't look quiet:
しずかじゃなそうです

It didn't look quiet"
しずかじゃなそうでした。



Thank you! I would ask my Japanese teacher but I don't understand her well and sometimes she gets confused herself! :s
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 04, 2014, 07:42:50 pm
We are learning the ’そうです。’ pattern in class right now, to describe what things look like and I was confused as to whether these were right or wrong.

It doesn't look like it will rain:
雨がふらなそうです。

It did't look like it was going to rain:
雨がふらなそうでした

It doesn't look quiet:
しずかじゃなそうです

It didn't look quiet"
しずかじゃなそうでした。



Thank you! I would ask my Japanese teacher but I don't understand her well and sometimes she gets confused herself! :s

Hi Razz

When using そうです with a negative such as ~ない or ~じゃない it becomes ~なさそうです or ~じゃなさそうです
You might've learnt that いい becomes よさそうです in your text book, this is just an extension of that.

All your sentences are missing the さ
so they should be

It doesn't look like it will rain:
雨がふらなさそうです。

It didn't look like it was going to rain:
雨がふらなさそうでした

It doesn't look quiet:
しずかじゃなさそうです

It didn't look quiet"
しずかじゃなさそうでした。

Hope that helps :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 04, 2014, 07:53:25 pm
Hi Razz

When using そうです with a negative such as ~ない or ~じゃない it becomes ~なさそうです or ~じゃなさそうです
You might've learnt that いい becomes よさそうです in your text book, this is just an extension of that.

All your sentences are missing the さ
so they should be

It doesn't look like it will rain:
雨がふらなさそうです。

It didn't look like it was going to rain:
雨がふらなさそうでした

It doesn't look quiet:
しずかじゃなさそうです

It didn't look quiet"
しずかじゃなさそうでした。

Hope that helps :)


ohhh okay!! Omg that helped so much thankyou :)

Yeah my textbook does include the part about 'よさそうです。’

Does that mean if I were to say " It doesn't look good'
Would it be: よくなそうです。

Thanks!!! so much! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 04, 2014, 08:05:24 pm
@Razz

No because よくない also ends in ~ない (negative) so it would become よくなさそうです :)

Just remember that さそうです is used for negatives and いい
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 04, 2014, 08:17:33 pm
@Razz

No because よくない also ends in ~ない (negative) so it would become よくなさそうです :)

Just remember that さそうです is used for negatives and いい

Omg I meant to write よくなさそうです
hahah yeah I'll remember :)

thanks! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 07, 2014, 08:25:35 pm
What do they mean by descriptive nouns, in Japanese?

:)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 07, 2014, 11:18:17 pm
They mean な adjectives : )
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 08, 2014, 09:53:49 am
They mean な adjectives : )

Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 09, 2014, 02:34:26 pm
Does the term 'あまり’ mean "not really" and "very much"

How would you know when which definition is being used?

And also can it be spelled 'あんまり’ as well?

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 09, 2014, 02:38:07 pm
If you were saying "I am strong at Japanese"

Do you use the particle 'は’ or 'が’

eg1. 私は日本語はとくいです。

eg2.私は日本語がとくいです。

Or can the 'が’ particle only be used in this context when you are saying "My Japanese is good"
- 私の日本語がとくい です。

Thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Hokiksyo-min on March 09, 2014, 03:34:47 pm
If you were saying "I am strong at Japanese"

Do you use the particle 'は’ or 'が’

eg1. 私は日本語はとくいです。

eg2.私は日本語がとくいです。

Or can the 'が’ particle only be used in this context when you are saying "My Japanese is good"
- 私の日本語がとくい です。

Thanks!

From what I understand, you would use が.

’は’ is generally used for the main subject of the sentence, i.e.
学生です。- As for me, I am a student.
'が’ is more general, or it is used to introduce a new noun.
The ’私は’ can be omitted, so it's safe just to say ’日本語がとくいです。’

Jibba could probably give a better explanation of が、but I am pretty sure that in any context が is used when you're talking about being bad/good at something.




Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on March 09, 2014, 11:08:29 pm
If you were saying "I am strong at Japanese"

Do you use the particle 'は’ or 'が’

eg1. 私は日本語はとくいです。

eg2.私は日本語がとくいです。

Or can the 'が’ particle only be used in this context when you are saying "My Japanese is good"
- 私の日本語がとくい です。

Thanks!

Only example two is grammatically correct.
Your first example, and your last sentence are incorrect.

Hokiksyo explained it well.

Does the term 'あまり’ mean "not really" and "very much"

How would you know when which definition is being used?

And also can it be spelled 'あんまり’ as well?



I guess usually depending on context and the rest of the sentence?

あまり美味しくない = Not very tasty.
あまり疲れた = Very tired.

あまり is more common than あんまり, but yes they mean the same thing.


The confusing thing is, often people use あまり in a sentence like "Don't overdo it". So the sentence ends with a negative, but the あまり is the "very much" version that indicates something is excessive.

e.g. あまり無理するな or あまり無理しないで = "Don't overdo it" or "Don't work excessively".


Considering this, I think the easiest way to think of あまり is as "very".

あまり美味しくない = very not tasty --> Not very tasty.
あまり疲れた = very tired --> Very tired.
あまり無理しないで = very overwork don't --> Don't overdo it.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 13, 2014, 05:05:11 pm
Thanks to Hokiksyo and Fyrefly for their explanations! :)

I agree with Fyrefly that a better literal translation for あまり is "very". 
But as あまり is mainly used with negative forms of words, "not very" might be a more common translation. 

"not really" as a translation might work in some circumstances but I think the vast majority of circumstances would translate to "not very", "very much" or "too much".
 
For example:
あまりしんぱいしないで Don't worry too much!
あまり日本語を話しません I don't really speak Japanese that much. OR I don't speak Japanese very much (Just translate it how you would find it most natural, sometimes some words don't translate literally)
このえいがはあまりおもしろくないです。 This movie is not very interesting.

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 13, 2014, 05:21:03 pm
If you were saying "I am strong at Japanese"

Do you use the particle 'は’ or 'が’

eg1. 私は日本語はとくいです。

eg2.私は日本語がとくいです。

Or can the 'が’ particle only be used in this context when you are saying "My Japanese is good"
- 私の日本語がとくい です。

Thanks!

I would get into the habit of always using が when describing things with adjectives such as 'I'm good at..."
So to say I'm good at Japanese, you should say
私は日本語がとくいです。

The third example kind of makes an exception to the general rule, as 'My Japanese' becomes the subject of the sentence so you would need は particle instead of が
私の日本語はとくいです。

But if you had another subject in the sentence, you would use が like you do with the general rule of adjectives
ie:
先生は私の日本語が上手だと言いました。
Note how you have to use 上手 instead of とくい as someone else is stating you are good at something (make sense?)

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 13, 2014, 05:32:25 pm
I would get into the habit of always using が when describing things with adjectives such as 'I'm good at..."
So to say I'm good at Japanese, you should say
私は日本語がとくいです。

The third example kind of makes an exception to the general rule, as 'My Japanese' becomes the subject of the sentence so you would need は particle instead of が
私の日本語はとくいです。

But if you had another subject in the sentence, you would use が like you do with the general rule of adjectives
ie:
先生は私の日本語が上手だと言いました。
Note how you have to use 上手 instead of とくい as someone else is stating you are good at something (make sense?)

Hope that helps!


Thanks!! that helps me so much!!! :D :)))))



Hi Razz

When using そうです with a negative such as ~ない or ~じゃない it becomes ~なさそうです or ~じゃなさそうです
You might've learnt that いい becomes よさそうです in your text book, this is just an extension of that.

All your sentences are missing the さ
so they should be

It doesn't look like it will rain:
雨がふらなさそうです。

It didn't look like it was going to rain:
雨がふらなさそうでした

It doesn't look quiet:
しずかじゃなさそうです

It didn't look quiet"
しずかじゃなさそうでした。

Hope that helps :)

You are really good at explaining things! :)



Would きれいじゃない でした

be the same thing as:

きれいじゃなかった です。

?? :)



I would get into the habit of always using が when describing things with adjectives such as 'I'm good at..."
So to say I'm good at Japanese, you should say
私は日本語がとくいです。

The third example kind of makes an exception to the general rule, as 'My Japanese' becomes the subject of the sentence so you would need は particle instead of が
私の日本語はとくいです。

But if you had another subject in the sentence, you would use が like you do with the general rule of adjectives
ie:
先生は私の日本語が上手だと言いました。
Note how you have to use 上手 instead of とくい as someone else is stating you are good at something (make sense?)

Hope that helps!

Oh, I knew that you can't use '下手’ and ’上手’ when talking about yourself or school subjects
But I didn't know you had to use them, when talking about others!
So you cannot use 'にがて’ and ’とくい’ when talking about other people?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 13, 2014, 08:23:01 pm
@Razz

You cannot use きれいじゃないでした, it's grammatically incorrect.
Always use じゃなかったです
it's because じゃない is treated similarly to い adjectives. So the polite past tense is じゃなかったです similar to い adjectives such as おもしろかったです or さむかったです. You can't say おもしろいでした, さむいでした (they are grammatically incorrect)

And that's correct, you can't use にがて or とくい when talking about other people.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 13, 2014, 08:31:28 pm
@Razz

You cannot use きれいじゃないでした, it's grammatically incorrect.
Always use じゃなかったです
it's because じゃない is treated similarly to い adjectives. So the polite past tense is じゃなかったです similar to い adjectives such as おもしろかったです or さむかったです. You can't say おもしろいでした, さむいでした (they are grammatically incorrect)

And that's correct, you can't use にがて or とくい when talking about other people.

Ohh okay thankyou!!! :D :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 22, 2014, 04:37:01 pm
For the 'そう な + noun ' pattern, when you are describing what things are like

my book says to use the 'そう’ form of verbs/adjectives/descriptive nouns and then add な + noun.

So for example to say 'An expensive looking hat' would be:' 高そうなぼうし'

and would  ' An inexpensive looking hat'  be: '高くなさそうなぼうし’ ??

 :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 22, 2014, 06:22:22 pm
When you're describing something do you always have to use 'が;?
so when saying ' the food is delicious' would be '食べ物がおいしいです’ not '食べ物はおいしいです’

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 24, 2014, 03:09:44 pm
Yes for both.

It's better to always use が for describing something at this stage.
There are some instances where you can use は instead of が, but in the majority of circumstances if you use は instead of が it will be unnatural.
So I think it's better to always use が for adjectives in VCE.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 24, 2014, 04:32:55 pm
Yes for both.

It's better to always use が for describing something at this stage.
There are some instances where you can use は instead of が, but in the majority of circumstances if you use は instead of が it will be unnatural.
So I think it's better to always use が for adjectives in VCE.


Thankyou!!!  :) :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: souka on March 31, 2014, 09:04:32 pm
Jibba you have my respect.

I really want to get 40+ in japanese but just at this rate I don't think I can.

Do you know of any more resources?

Doushio
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 17, 2014, 06:27:38 pm
What does the particle 'には’ mean?

I read some sentences which went like this: ’日本には。。。’ instead of ’日本に。。。’

eg: 日本には夏がきれいです。instead of: 日本に夏がきれいです。

What is the difference between the ’には’ and the ’に’ particle?  :)

 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 17, 2014, 08:57:17 pm
Is there always a different verb for the intransitive form of a transitive verb, in Japanese?

Or is sometimes the intransitive and transitive form of a verb spelled and pronounced the same?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 17, 2014, 09:15:53 pm
My textbook has two different meanings for the word 'すっと' which are
1.) The whole time
2.) By far, all the way

And I was just wondering how you when know which meaning is being used?

 :) Thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on April 17, 2014, 11:16:38 pm
「ずっと」 not 「すっと」.

You know based on context.

ずっと待っていました.
= I waited the whole time.  --> Makes sense.
≠ I waited by far.  --> Doesn't make sense in context.

私は君よりもずっと若い。
= I'm younger than you by far. --> I'm much younger than you.  --> Makes sense.
≠ I'm younger than you the whole time.  --> Well yeah... unless you're a time traveler, this is unlikely to be the intended meaning.  --> Doesn't make sense in context.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 17, 2014, 11:33:12 pm
Can someone please give me an example of how you would use the verb 'ちがいます’ (meaning: different to) in a sentence?

My textbook says the particle before it , is 'と’ but I wasn't sure how I would use this verb in a sentence!
thanks! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: souka on April 19, 2014, 01:46:48 pm
I have seen it used with TO and GA particles.
In the dictionary.
その二人の兄弟は好みがちがっている。
zono futarinokyoudai wa konomi ga chigatteiru
the two brothers differ in their tastes
so subjects wa thing that is different ga chigaimasu

or

with TO

これはそれと違います。
kore wa sore to chigaimasu
this is different from that
so subject wa other subject to chigaimasu
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: souka on April 19, 2014, 01:49:07 pm
also i think chigaimasu can be interchanged with onaji desu in these situations.
someone please correct me if im wrong
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Poplar on April 19, 2014, 07:26:33 pm
What does the particle 'には’ mean?

I read some sentences which went like this: ’日本には。。。’ instead of ’日本に。。。’

eg: 日本には夏がきれいです。instead of: 日本に夏がきれいです。

What is the difference between the ’には’ and the ’に’ particle?  :)

In a Japanese sentence, は is a topic marker. Both には and just に are grammatically correct, but using には brings more attention to the topic 日本. This is especially important if you're making a comparison.

For example, if I were to say このホテルには、プールがあります, it would mean 'In THIS hotel, there's a pool.' This may be in comparison to another hotel which has no pool.

このホテルにプールがあります is also grammatically correct, but it would be closer to 'There is a pool in this hotel.' Here the sentence is just stating a fact.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 20, 2014, 03:39:01 pm
Thanks for all the help everyone!! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 20, 2014, 03:54:15 pm
In a Japanese sentence, は is a topic marker. Both には and just に are grammatically correct, but using には brings more attention to the topic 日本. This is especially important if you're making a comparison.

For example, if I were to say このホテルには、プールがあります, it would mean 'In THIS hotel, there's a pool.' This may be in comparison to another hotel which has no pool.

このホテルにプールがあります is also grammatically correct, but it would be closer to 'There is a pool in this hotel.' Here the sentence is just stating a fact.

Thankyou! :)
Since 'には’ emphasises the topic, does that mean if someone were to ask you
"どのにプルーがありますか。”

You would reply with ' このホテルには、プールがあります’
 :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on May 10, 2014, 11:13:51 am
Can someone please give me examples on how to use the verbs 'むかえに行く’ and 'むかえに来る’
for example, how would I say " I go to the station to pick up my friend"

:) thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: souka on May 13, 2014, 09:27:43 pm
from what i have learnt むかえに行く refers to you going somewhere to greet/ meet/ pick up someone, however むかえに来る is someone else coming to greet/ meet/ pick up you.
so I think your Example would be
i go to the station to pick up my friend
友だちをむかえに行くために、駅に行く。
or maybe
駅に友だちをむかえに行く。
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on June 08, 2014, 04:00:51 pm
I think I understand the distinction between intransitive and transitive Japanese verbs, but just to make sure :

It would be grammatically incorrect to use an intransitive verb with a direct object right?
So for example the intransitive verb: おわります。

Would it be grammatically incorrect to say: "私はばんぐみをおわりました" (I finished the programme)
instead it would have to be something like: ”ばんぐみがおわりました。” (The programme finished)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on September 13, 2014, 03:16:12 pm
Sorry, I realised I haven't replied to anyone these few months. (I was having too much fun on exchange in Japan :P)

@RazzMeTazz
Yea, in relation to intransitive v transitive you got that correct!
 
Also your question on には, I think you got your answer too. You would use に or で normally, but if you wanted to make the noun before it the subject/empahize the topic of the sentence you would add は to the に or で.
(FYI には can also be used similarly to the grammar pattern ために but it is POST VCE so it will probably confuse you so you can ignore it) 

With ちがいます, you should use とちがいます when you want to say something is different from something else in a comparison
ie: 私はサラさんとちがって、すしが好きじゃないです (Different to Sara, I don't like sushi)
or you can use がちがいます to say something is just different.
そのことばのいみがちがいます! ( The meaning of that word is different!)

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on September 13, 2014, 03:32:18 pm
Jibba you have my respect.

I really want to get 40+ in japanese but just at this rate I don't think I can.

Do you know of any more resources?

Doushio

Sorry for the late response!
I always recommend watching drama, trying to make Japanese language exchange partners to improve your speaking, just rote learning vocab, etc.
You can even make skype language exchange partners through forums like japan guide just to speak with real Japanese people (although be careful of giving away too much of your identity). I ended up meeting with my skype language partner in Japan so you can make some real friends too!
Good way to improve your usage of grammar is to try use what you learn immediately in conversation with real people. Even if you are not confident with your Japanese level, just give it a try, it's a lot of fun and very beneficial! 

In terms of exam practice, there's not much other than past exams. Maybe you can check out JLPT N4 books (which is slightly beyond VCE).
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on September 16, 2014, 04:25:59 pm
Sorry for the late response!
I always recommend watching drama, trying to make Japanese language exchange partners to improve your speaking, just rote learning vocab, etc.
You can even make skype language exchange partners through forums like japan guide just to speak with real Japanese people (although be careful of giving away too much of your identity). I ended up meeting with my skype language partner in Japan so you can make some real friends too!
Good way to improve your usage of grammar is to try use what you learn immediately in conversation with real people. Even if you are not confident with your Japanese level, just give it a try, it's a lot of fun and very beneficial! 

In terms of exam practice, there's not much other than past exams. Maybe you can check out JLPT N4 books (which is slightly beyond VCE).

Speaking of the JLPT N4 books, does that mean the JLPT N5 books are easier than VCE level? is it worth to look at them as well, or just the N4 ones? :) thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on September 17, 2014, 02:39:56 am
I think VCE is in between N5 and N4, so looking at N5 might be beneficial too I think. But if you see yourself as a more advanced student, N5 might be too low leveled. I've given N3 listening problems to my students before as well and I thought although challenging it was good practice for them.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on September 18, 2014, 01:06:55 pm
Hey jibba, have you passed N1 yet? I enrolled to take it this December (x.x)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on September 18, 2014, 01:17:07 pm
Hey jibba, have you passed N1 yet? I enrolled to take it this December (x.x)

Same boat as you! I'm planning to take it in December! I passed N2 last year !
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on September 18, 2014, 02:26:24 pm
Same boat as you! I'm planning to take it in December! I passed N2 last year !

I passed N2 two years ago. Coincidentally, my JLPT test site was Hitotsubashi, ha ha.
I live in the extreme north-east of Tokyo now though (almost Saitama!) so I hope they don't make me travel there this time (T.T)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on September 21, 2014, 12:25:06 am
One way that I am trying to improve my listening is by watching the Japanese news whenever possible and checking up some of the common words that I don't understand.
Would you recommend this to VCE students? Am I wasting my time?
Is understanding somewhere from two-fifths to three-quarters of that (depending on the level of difficulty and the day) anywhere near idyllic? (Usually a good portion of this is me listening, not watching.)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on September 21, 2014, 01:48:22 am
One way that I am trying to improve my listening is by watching the Japanese news whenever possible and checking up some of the common words that I don't understand.
Would you recommend this to VCE students? Am I wasting my time?
Is understanding somewhere from two-fifths to three-quarters of that (depending on the level of difficulty and the day) anywhere near idyllic? (Usually a good portion of this is me listening, not watching.)
You probably can learn a lot of new vocab from watching daily news, but I found that they use a lot of difficult words that I don't know either in some news stories. Understanding about 50-70% is still really good at VCE level!
If you want to watch Japanese news programs, I'd recommend maybe looking for special news reports where they introduce something. Probably the vocab used in those types of segments is more useful and easier to understand!
Maybe like this from Asahi TV News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNcMaHSYoHg 

I only watched Japanese News when I was looking for things for detailed study related things! I think just youtubing clips from drama might be more helpful though because the daily conversation and vocab used is more like what you will probably have in your exam. :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Edward Elric on September 21, 2014, 08:13:36 am
You probably can learn a lot of new vocab from watching daily news, but I found that they use a lot of difficult words that I don't know either in some news stories. Understanding about 50-70% is still really good at VCE level!
If you want to watch Japanese news programs, I'd recommend maybe looking for special news reports where they introduce something. Probably the vocab used in those types of segments is more useful and easier to understand!
Maybe like this from Asahi TV News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNcMaHSYoHg 

I only watched Japanese News when I was looking for things for detailed study related things! I think just youtubing clips from drama might be more helpful though because the daily conversation and vocab used is more like what you will probably have in your exam. :)


Hey Jibba

I'm really struggling with the listening task, I just find that I cant keep up with what their saying. Any ways to help improve my listening, for Japanese. Also what are some interesting J-dramas you can recommend?

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on September 21, 2014, 10:20:51 am
One way that I am trying to improve my listening is by watching the Japanese news whenever possible and checking up some of the common words that I don't understand.
Would you recommend this to VCE students? Am I wasting my time?
Is understanding somewhere from two-fifths to three-quarters of that (depending on the level of difficulty and the day) anywhere near idyllic? (Usually a good portion of this is me listening, not watching.)

You probably can learn a lot of new vocab from watching daily news, but I found that they use a lot of difficult words that I don't know either in some news stories. Understanding about 50-70% is still really good at VCE level!
If you want to watch Japanese news programs, I'd recommend maybe looking for special news reports where they introduce something. Probably the vocab used in those types of segments is more useful and easier to understand!
Maybe like this from Asahi TV News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNcMaHSYoHg 

I only watched Japanese News when I was looking for things for detailed study related things! I think just youtubing clips from drama might be more helpful though because the daily conversation and vocab used is more like what you will probably have in your exam. :)

I strongly recommend this: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/
It's an *easy* version of the NHK news.
They speak more slowly and with more simple Japanese.

Edit: Also, for the written articles, you can hover over words to read their definitions (in Japanese).
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on September 21, 2014, 11:50:28 am
@Edward

Try watch some dramas with Japanese + English subtitles if you can!
Liar Game is a good one! I remember I watched it with Japanese + English subtitles when I was in high school.
 
If you can't keep up with the lines, it is usually because you are not familiar with the vocabulary. Also might be you have come across the vocabulary before but you haven't heard it being spoken before so you are unable to recognise it quickly. Either way, it's good to watch drama and listen for vocabulary you do know and also write down ones that you don't know but hear regularly.
Good luck (y)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on September 21, 2014, 11:06:21 pm
Thanks for the advice, Fyrefly and jibba. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Edward Elric on September 21, 2014, 11:54:34 pm
@Edward

Try watch some dramas with Japanese + English subtitles if you can!
Liar Game is a good one! I remember I watched it with Japanese + English subtitles when I was in high school.
 
If you can't keep up with the lines, it is usually because you are not familiar with the vocabulary. Also might be you have come across the vocabulary before but you haven't heard it being spoken before so you are unable to recognise it quickly. Either way, it's good to watch drama and listen for vocabulary you do know and also write down ones that you don't know but hear regularly.
Good luck (y)

Thank you so much, I appreciate it :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on September 22, 2014, 05:20:04 pm
This is going to sound really ignorant, since I am doing Year.11 Japanese at the moment, but what exactly are 'General conversation' and 'Detailed Study' for Japanese?
I knew there was an oral exam at the end of the Year 12 but that's about it..

My teacher rarely talks about them and I don't personally know anyone close to me, who has done VCE Japanese before, so I realised I actually have no idea what they are.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on September 22, 2014, 09:47:19 pm
Hi, when you are nominalising verbs to make them act like nouns, my book (Wakatta) says you add こと / の  to the appropriate plain form of the verb.

So then if you had the sentence 母が車をガレージにいれるのが聞こえました, would that translate to "I heard mum put the car in the garage" or " I heard mum putting the car in the garage."

Because the book says this would translate to " I heard mum putting the car into the garage" but I was confused, because if it was putting I thought the verb would have to be いれている not いれる ?

Is there any difference between using the plain continuous form of the verb (いれている) or just the plain form (いれる) or am I just not making any sense?  :P

Any clarifications would be appreciated!




Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Mieow on September 22, 2014, 11:19:24 pm
This is going to sound really ignorant, since I am doing Year.11 Japanese at the moment, but what exactly are 'General conversation' and 'Detailed Study' for Japanese?

The oral exam has two sections: General Convo (~7 minutes) and Detailed Study (~8 minutes). General convo is just the really generic conversation, like travel, family, work, study, hobby etc. and it could go anywhere. Detailed Study is a discussion on a topic that you choose to research about. For example, my topic is Pop Culture, and I researched on a girl band named AKB48. So I'll present some information and research that I found and the assessors will ask me questions on that to facilitate deeper discussion.
Hope this helped  :P
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Mieow on October 10, 2014, 10:10:51 pm
What are the writing conventions used in writing an email?
Like how in a letter you open up with a greeting and comment on the season etc, what are the key features used in emails?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on October 10, 2014, 10:31:40 pm
What are the writing conventions used in writing an email?
Like how in a letter you open up with a greeting and comment on the season etc, what are the key features used in emails?

What sort of email? Who are you writing the email to?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Mieow on October 10, 2014, 11:13:19 pm
What sort of email? Who are you writing the email to?

It's an email to my friend Kazumi persuading her to stay in Australia because she wants to go back to Japan (2008 exam)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on October 11, 2014, 12:42:20 am
It's an email to my friend Kazumi persuading her to stay in Australia because she wants to go back to Japan (2008 exam)

That's... not what I was expecting. VCE is not real-life, so see what jibba says because he has VCE experience.

General format for emails:

------------------------------------------------------------------
Email Subject Line (Make sure you fill this out)


Recipient + Honorific (先生、様)

State your Affiliation. (モナシュ大学のホタルです。)
Opening Greeting (いつもお世話になっております。)

Introduce the Topic of your Email (来週の発表について、お願いがあります。)

Elaborate and Explain your Topic (this is the essence of your email).

Closing Greeting (では、よろしくお願い致します。)

Sender Name (ホタル イーネ)

------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on October 11, 2014, 10:33:07 am
Could someone please explain the 'て きます' pattern?

My Wakatta book says that it means to go do something and then come back, but would that be used in translations from Japanese to English?

For example: "パンを買ってきます’ would that be: I will go buy bread and come back?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on October 11, 2014, 10:34:05 am
The oral exam has two sections: General Convo (~7 minutes) and Detailed Study (~8 minutes). General convo is just the really generic conversation, like travel, family, work, study, hobby etc. and it could go anywhere. Detailed Study is a discussion on a topic that you choose to research about. For example, my topic is Pop Culture, and I researched on a girl band named AKB48. So I'll present some information and research that I found and the assessors will ask me questions on that to facilitate deeper discussion.
Hope this helped  :P

Thankyou for the explanation :) !
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on October 11, 2014, 11:40:42 am
Could someone please explain the 'て きます' pattern?

My Wakatta book says that it means to go do something and then come back, but would that be used in translations from Japanese to English?

For example: "パンを買ってきます’ would that be: I will go buy bread and come back?

Yeah, that's how I'd translate it. Japanese and English are very different languages, so it's hard to get a clean translation. For your exam, write what you've suggested. For your own learning and understanding though, I think the most natural spoken English would probably be more like: "I'm going to buy bread. I'll be back."
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on October 11, 2014, 12:32:49 pm
I'm finding I have trouble with direct translation from Japanese into English, if someone could clarify things that would be of great help.

My workbook says that the sentence: "本田さんのドレスはすてきだったとおもいます。” would be translated into English as " I thought Mrs.Honda's dress was beautiful."

But then for another sentence: "ハりーくんのたん生日はきのうだったと思います”  English translation is stated as " I thinkHarry's birthday was yesterday." In accordance with the translation of the previous example shouldn't this sentence then be translated into English as " I thought Harry's birthday was yesterday."

So ultimately my main question is if you have a past tense/negative word before the '思います’ does that essentially change the "I think" to " I thought" or " I don't think."

??

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on October 11, 2014, 06:45:42 pm
When indicating direction, are the particles へ and に interchangeable?

If I were to say, "I will go to Japan" which would be more grammatically correct?

1.) 私は日本に行きます

or

2.) 私は日本へ行きます

?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on October 13, 2014, 03:05:22 pm
What are the writing conventions used in writing an email?
Like how in a letter you open up with a greeting and comment on the season etc, what are the key features used in emails?

Fyrefly's way is the way to do it in real life, I do it like that when I had to email teachers in Japanese unis.

VCE doesn't require you to be so formal and in-depth i'd think.

Quote
あなたはVCEの試験(しけん)のあと、ホストブラザーのたくみに会うために、もう一度(いちど)日本に行こうと思っています。たくみに初(はじ)めてメールを書いて、あなたがどのようにして日本で時を過(す)ごしたいか、説明(せつめい)しなさい。
You are planning to go to Japan after the VCE exams to visit your host brother, Takumi, for a second time. Write an initial email to Takumi to explain how you would like to spend your time in Japan.

たくみさんへ 、

 お元気ですか?ひさしぶりにメールを書いています 。しかも、いいニュースです。私は十二年生のしけんの後で、日本に旅行することにしました!とても楽しみにしています。日本で行きたい場所がたくさんあるので、そのことについて知らせたいと思います

 まず 、日本に行ったら、コンサートに行きたいです。多分、もうよく知っていると思うけれど、私はスキャンダルというバンドのファンです。ネットのじょうほうによると、十二月に演奏会(えんそうかい)があるそうです。一緒(いっしょ)に演奏会に付(つ)き合(あ)っていただいてもいいですか?たくみさんもスキャンダルの曲(きょく)をよく聞きますね。いい機会(きかい)でしょう。来週から、きっぷを売り始めるそうなので、できれば、きっぷを買っておいて いただけませんか。ありがとうございます。

 それから、私は東京の秋葉原(あきはばら)や渋谷(しぶや)などにも行こうと思っています。留学生(りゅうがくせい)の時、秋葉原(あきはばら)で一日しかすごせなかったから、今度(こんど)こそ秋葉原(あきはばら)で買い物をしたり、見物したりするよていです。メイドきっさに行くつもりはないので、安心してください。

 では、これで終(お)わりです。お返事(へんじ)を待っています
(Copyright to jibba, please don't plagarise or reproduce/distribute in other places)


I've attached an email i wrote in VCE. I always started with ~について知らせたいと思います as it clearly states the intention in the introduction and i finished with では、これで終(お)わりです。お返事(へんじ)を待っています to clearly show the conclusion. Email depends a lot on the topic, just use a lot of grammars in the body paragraph and answer the question. The length seems short but that's about 500ji
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Botopie on October 19, 2014, 02:42:39 pm
We ready for oral exam boys and girls?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on October 28, 2014, 02:13:04 am
When indicating direction, are the particles へ and に interchangeable?

If I were to say, "I will go to Japan" which would be more grammatically correct?

1.) 私は日本に行きます

or

2.) 私は日本へ行きます

?

Yea, in cases where you can use へ you can replace it with に (ie: for direction)

With your previous question, おもいます should technically translate to 'I think' and おもいました should translate to 'I thought'
The tense before the おもいます ie: だった v  だ should translate to 'was' or 'is'
ie: 本田さんのドレスはすてきだったとおもいます I think that Ms Honda's dress was beautiful.
本田さんのドレスはすてきだとおもいます I think that Ms Honda's dress is beautiful

I don't think that using I thought in 本田さんのドレスはすてきだったとおもいます is incorrect, because it sounds more natural in English to say I thought when using past tense.
For the second example, I think it sounds natural saying 'I think Harry's birthday was yesterday' so it's okay. If you wanted to say I thought you'd use おもいました

(Apology for late response)

Hope you all did well for your speaking exam and feel free to ask any questions for the final exam! (I'll try be prompt~!)
 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on November 01, 2014, 04:55:35 pm
Yea, in cases where you can use へ you can replace it with に (ie: for direction)

With your previous question, おもいます should technically translate to 'I think' and おもいました should translate to 'I thought'
The tense before the おもいます ie: だった v  だ should translate to 'was' or 'is'
ie: 本田さんのドレスはすてきだったとおもいます I think that Ms Honda's dress was beautiful.
本田さんのドレスはすてきだとおもいます I think that Ms Honda's dress is beautiful

I don't think that using I thought in 本田さんのドレスはすてきだったとおもいます is incorrect, because it sounds more natural in English to say I thought when using past tense.
For the second example, I think it sounds natural saying 'I think Harry's birthday was yesterday' so it's okay. If you wanted to say I thought you'd use おもいました

(Apology for late response)

Hope you all did well for your speaking exam and feel free to ask any questions for the final exam! (I'll try be prompt~!)

Thankyou so much! This was of great help!  :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on November 01, 2014, 04:58:25 pm
For the Japanese written exam are we allowed to bring in any type of bilingual dictionary, or is it only specific brands?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on November 01, 2014, 05:15:34 pm
For the Japanese written exam are we allowed to bring in any type of bilingual dictionary, or is it only specific brands?

They really couldn't care less which brand it is. As long as it's a dictionary in at least one language.
VCAA states the following:
"Languages Examinations: Written component
any printed monolingual and/or bilingual dictionary in one or two separate volumes"
taken from: http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Pages/vce/exams/authorisedmaterials.aspx
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on November 01, 2014, 06:39:58 pm
Thankyou! ! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: souka on November 10, 2014, 11:38:26 am
Which one are you using?

Our school makes us buy Kodansha's furigana japanese dictionary.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 10, 2014, 12:24:51 pm
@souka

I used the same one
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: moveovermodels on November 13, 2014, 12:31:43 pm
Hi Jibba,
Is it fine if I sent you some of my writing pieces to check?
I'm not sure if my teacher is bias with my writing since my mark vary from medium to high depending on each piece.
And what time management strategy did you come into Japanese exam?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Edward Elric on November 13, 2014, 12:57:01 pm
Fyrefly's way is the way to do it in real life, I do it like that when I had to email teachers in Japanese unis.

VCE doesn't require you to be so formal and in-depth i'd think.
 

I've attached an email i wrote in VCE. I always started with ~について知らせたいと思います as it clearly states the intention in the introduction and i finished with では、これで終(お)わりです。お返事(へんじ)を待っています to clearly show the conclusion. Email depends a lot on the topic, just use a lot of grammars in the body paragraph and answer the question. The length seems short but that's about 500ji


Hey Jibba

Just wondering, how would you allocate your time tackling the paper, during writing time, and how would you go about reading time. Also what else can you do to prepare for the exams besides doing past papers? Especially how can you improve your listening skills?
Thanks in advance :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 13, 2014, 01:39:10 pm
@moreovermodels

Sure, I can have a look at essays for you. But is it okay if I post the corrections to this thread? (I think it could help others too as this is a communal thread :) )

Re: time management strategy
I posted how I went about allocating time in the exam in my first post (just reposting it here)
Spoiler
My Exam Strategy & Tips

Reading Time: 15 mins
Spend at least 5 mins deciding a topic for Section 3: Writing and coming up with a plan in your head
Spend around 5 minutes reading Section 2: Reading in Japanese (looking up words you don't know in dictionary)
Spend remainder of time getting familiar with Listening questions, if you finish quickly go back to reading comprehension

Listening Section: 30 mins
Answer in English
Take notes in English
This section is about translating Japanese into English as accurately and exactly as you can. I made the example between 料理(りょうり)を作ったことがない vs 料理を作ることができない on the second page of this thread.
The translation of these two into English is different. 'I have never cooked' vs 'I cannot cook'
The markers will be particular about vague translations

Students aiming for a high score should try to get all the answers during the first listening (using the second listening for confirming answers)
(In my exam, I was able to get all of them except one part in the first listening)
Use any extra time for planning your writing or for reading comprehension (Obviously make sure you got the answers in English correct and written down first)
 
Answer in Japanese
Take notes in ROOMAJI (my technique) - Try to write down exactly what you hear into roomaji
If there are words you cannot understand or hear completely, attempt to write down what you hear. It might lead you to getting the correct answer later on 

This section is about copying the Japanese you hear and correctly putting it as the response to the relevant question
They don't want you to change the way they say it, you can simply just copy it as they say it
You may need to phrase your answer to suit the way the question is asked.
For example with last year's paper, you could've summarised the three advantages into one paragraph. Although you could also have three individual sentences
 
Reading Comprehension Section: 40-45 mins
Answer in English
Maybe spend 15-20 mins on this section, but it depends on length of texts and number of texts
Same as I said above, try translate the Japanese into English as accurately as you can

Answer in Japanese
(The killer section and the one where the good students set them selves apart from the rest)
Try to correctly use as much VCE grammar as you can in your responses (use it appropriately though) [Random Tip: I used to use ~そうです (I heard) to end answers where you had to provide information from the text]
Make sure all the VCE Kanji is used in your responses
Stating the obvious, but make sure your response answers the question completely! Do not add unnecessary information for the sake of using grammar

Writing Section: 30 mins
The suggested time is 50 mins, but the quicker you can finish the more time you will have to re-check all of your answers and fix mistakes
Students aiming for 40+ should try to finish in 30 mins
In my exam, I wrote a story as every year the least amount of students attempt that one. Doesn't mean everyone should write a story, but if you are confident in your Japanese it might be easier to score better writing the least popular topic.
Choose the topic you are most confident with.

If you can follow those time suggestions you should have 15-20 mins at the end to re-check everything
In my exam, I had around 15 minutes, which I used to fix kanji, spelling of words, and minimise as many grammatical errors as I could
Personally I think the re-checking time is crucial, because in my case I found a lot of silly errors in my responses, which I was able to fix because I left time at the end.
TL;DR
You should aim to finish your writing piece in 30-35 minutes (I finished it in 30 minutes). This will give you 15-20 minutes to double check your responses and fix grammar/spelling/kanji mistakes in the rest of your exam. I believe that having this extra time double checking really helped me achieve my 50 score because I found many little mistakes that would've lost me those crucial marks in that time. Under exam pressure, you will inevitably make silly mistakes so it's good to try and practice writing your essay in 30 mins rather than 50 so you have extra time to check your exam paper at the end.

re: improving listening skils
It's quite late, but there is still a lot you can do. Other than past exams I found that doing textbook listening problems really helps you improve and get used to certain grammars, learn new vocab, and help you identify the relevant/irrelevant pieces you need from the dialogue.
I can't post links to the textbooks. But the listening problems from Genki 1 (later exercises) and 2 textbooks are good. Just google 'Genki workbook download' 'genki listening download'. Also if you haven't done listening exercises to your Wakatta textbook make sure to do them!
Just memorising vocab from your textbook is also a good way to prepare too (if you have done all the past exams).
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Edward Elric on November 13, 2014, 03:35:28 pm
@moreovermodels

Sure, I can have a look at essays for you. But is it okay if I post the corrections to this thread? (I think it could help others too as this is a communal thread :) )

Re: time management strategy
I posted how I went about allocating time in the exam in my first post (just reposting it here)
Spoiler
My Exam Strategy & Tips

Reading Time: 15 mins
Spend at least 5 mins deciding a topic for Section 3: Writing and coming up with a plan in your head
Spend around 5 minutes reading Section 2: Reading in Japanese (looking up words you don't know in dictionary)
Spend remainder of time getting familiar with Listening questions, if you finish quickly go back to reading comprehension

Listening Section: 30 mins
Answer in English
Take notes in English
This section is about translating Japanese into English as accurately and exactly as you can. I made the example between 料理(りょうり)を作ったことがない vs 料理を作ることができない on the second page of this thread.
The translation of these two into English is different. 'I have never cooked' vs 'I cannot cook'
The markers will be particular about vague translations

Students aiming for a high score should try to get all the answers during the first listening (using the second listening for confirming answers)
(In my exam, I was able to get all of them except one part in the first listening)
Use any extra time for planning your writing or for reading comprehension (Obviously make sure you got the answers in English correct and written down first)
 
Answer in Japanese
Take notes in ROOMAJI (my technique) - Try to write down exactly what you hear into roomaji
If there are words you cannot understand or hear completely, attempt to write down what you hear. It might lead you to getting the correct answer later on 

This section is about copying the Japanese you hear and correctly putting it as the response to the relevant question
They don't want you to change the way they say it, you can simply just copy it as they say it
You may need to phrase your answer to suit the way the question is asked.
For example with last year's paper, you could've summarised the three advantages into one paragraph. Although you could also have three individual sentences
 
Reading Comprehension Section: 40-45 mins
Answer in English
Maybe spend 15-20 mins on this section, but it depends on length of texts and number of texts
Same as I said above, try translate the Japanese into English as accurately as you can

Answer in Japanese
(The killer section and the one where the good students set them selves apart from the rest)
Try to correctly use as much VCE grammar as you can in your responses (use it appropriately though) [Random Tip: I used to use ~そうです (I heard) to end answers where you had to provide information from the text]
Make sure all the VCE Kanji is used in your responses
Stating the obvious, but make sure your response answers the question completely! Do not add unnecessary information for the sake of using grammar

Writing Section: 30 mins
The suggested time is 50 mins, but the quicker you can finish the more time you will have to re-check all of your answers and fix mistakes
Students aiming for 40+ should try to finish in 30 mins
In my exam, I wrote a story as every year the least amount of students attempt that one. Doesn't mean everyone should write a story, but if you are confident in your Japanese it might be easier to score better writing the least popular topic.
Choose the topic you are most confident with.

If you can follow those time suggestions you should have 15-20 mins at the end to re-check everything

In my exam, I had around 15 minutes, which I used to fix kanji, spelling of words, and minimise as many grammatical errors as I could
Personally I think the re-checking time is crucial, because in my case I found a lot of silly errors in my responses, which I was able to fix because I left time at the end.
TL;DR
You should aim to finish your writing piece in 30-35 minutes (I finished it in 30 minutes). This will give you 15-20 minutes to double check your responses and fix grammar/spelling/kanji mistakes in the rest of your exam. I believe that having this extra time double checking really helped me achieve my 50 score because I found many little mistakes that would've lost me those crucial marks in that time. Under exam pressure, you will inevitably make silly mistakes so it's good to try and practice writing your essay in 30 mins rather than 50 so you have extra time to check your exam paper at the end.

re: improving listening skils
It's quite late, but there is still a lot you can do. Other than past exams I found that doing textbook listening problems really helps you improve and get used to certain grammars, learn new vocab, and help you identify the relevant/irrelevant pieces you need from the dialogue.
I can't post links to the textbooks. But the listening problems from Genki 1 (later exercises) and 2 textbooks are good. Just google 'Genki workbook download' 'genki listening download'. Also if you haven't done listening exercises to your Wakatta textbook make sure to do them!
Just memorising vocab from your textbook is also a good way to prepare too (if you have done all the past exams).

Thank you so much :) what a legend!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Mieow on November 13, 2014, 03:44:35 pm
Im looking at the grade distribution for Japanese and GA3 is out of 400. Why is it so high when the exam is only worth 75 marks?  ???
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on November 13, 2014, 08:40:41 pm
Hey jibba, any tips for not failing N1 in 24 days?  :P
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: moveovermodels on November 13, 2014, 09:02:26 pm
@moreovermodels

Sure, I can have a look at essays for you. But is it okay if I post the corrections to this thread? (I think it could help others too as this is a communal thread :) )

Re: time management strategy
I posted how I went about allocating time in the exam in my first post (just reposting it here)
Spoiler
My Exam Strategy & Tips

Reading Time: 15 mins
Spend at least 5 mins deciding a topic for Section 3: Writing and coming up with a plan in your head
Spend around 5 minutes reading Section 2: Reading in Japanese (looking up words you don't know in dictionary)
Spend remainder of time getting familiar with Listening questions, if you finish quickly go back to reading comprehension

Listening Section: 30 mins
Answer in English
Take notes in English
This section is about translating Japanese into English as accurately and exactly as you can. I made the example between 料理(りょうり)を作ったことがない vs 料理を作ることができない on the second page of this thread.
The translation of these two into English is different. 'I have never cooked' vs 'I cannot cook'
The markers will be particular about vague translations

Students aiming for a high score should try to get all the answers during the first listening (using the second listening for confirming answers)
(In my exam, I was able to get all of them except one part in the first listening)
Use any extra time for planning your writing or for reading comprehension (Obviously make sure you got the answers in English correct and written down first)
 
Answer in Japanese
Take notes in ROOMAJI (my technique) - Try to write down exactly what you hear into roomaji
If there are words you cannot understand or hear completely, attempt to write down what you hear. It might lead you to getting the correct answer later on 

This section is about copying the Japanese you hear and correctly putting it as the response to the relevant question
They don't want you to change the way they say it, you can simply just copy it as they say it
You may need to phrase your answer to suit the way the question is asked.
For example with last year's paper, you could've summarised the three advantages into one paragraph. Although you could also have three individual sentences
 
Reading Comprehension Section: 40-45 mins
Answer in English
Maybe spend 15-20 mins on this section, but it depends on length of texts and number of texts
Same as I said above, try translate the Japanese into English as accurately as you can

Answer in Japanese
(The killer section and the one where the good students set them selves apart from the rest)
Try to correctly use as much VCE grammar as you can in your responses (use it appropriately though) [Random Tip: I used to use ~そうです (I heard) to end answers where you had to provide information from the text]
Make sure all the VCE Kanji is used in your responses
Stating the obvious, but make sure your response answers the question completely! Do not add unnecessary information for the sake of using grammar

Writing Section: 30 mins
The suggested time is 50 mins, but the quicker you can finish the more time you will have to re-check all of your answers and fix mistakes
Students aiming for 40+ should try to finish in 30 mins
In my exam, I wrote a story as every year the least amount of students attempt that one. Doesn't mean everyone should write a story, but if you are confident in your Japanese it might be easier to score better writing the least popular topic.
Choose the topic you are most confident with.

If you can follow those time suggestions you should have 15-20 mins at the end to re-check everything
In my exam, I had around 15 minutes, which I used to fix kanji, spelling of words, and minimise as many grammatical errors as I could
Personally I think the re-checking time is crucial, because in my case I found a lot of silly errors in my responses, which I was able to fix because I left time at the end.
TL;DR
You should aim to finish your writing piece in 30-35 minutes (I finished it in 30 minutes). This will give you 15-20 minutes to double check your responses and fix grammar/spelling/kanji mistakes in the rest of your exam. I believe that having this extra time double checking really helped me achieve my 50 score because I found many little mistakes that would've lost me those crucial marks in that time. Under exam pressure, you will inevitably make silly mistakes so it's good to try and practice writing your essay in 30 mins rather than 50 so you have extra time to check your exam paper at the end.

re: improving listening skils
It's quite late, but there is still a lot you can do. Other than past exams I found that doing textbook listening problems really helps you improve and get used to certain grammars, learn new vocab, and help you identify the relevant/irrelevant pieces you need from the dialogue.
I can't post links to the textbooks. But the listening problems from Genki 1 (later exercises) and 2 textbooks are good. Just google 'Genki workbook download' 'genki listening download'. Also if you haven't done listening exercises to your Wakatta textbook make sure to do them!
Just memorising vocab from your textbook is also a good way to prepare too (if you have done all the past exams).

Thanks heap! As the website isn't allowing my essay to upload as it is a big file (sorry I handwrite it), is there any way I could send it to via email?  :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 14, 2014, 10:30:04 pm
Sure send it through to [email protected]
I'll try get a response to you by tomorrow!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 14, 2014, 10:31:23 pm
Hey jibba, any tips for not failing N1 in 24 days?  :P
I'm fully expecting to have to do it again next year. I still haven't started N1 kanji/grammar yet Σ(゚д゚lll)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on November 15, 2014, 01:34:58 am
I'm fully expecting to have to do it again next year. I still haven't started N1 kanji/grammar yet Σ(゚д゚lll)

Same same. I know I'm going to fail, but I'm interested in knowing by how much.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Deshouka on November 20, 2014, 08:54:47 pm
Hi Jibba,

I remember you coming to MHS two years ago and giving us a motivational speech about how you achieved a 50 in Japanese.  :P
Anyways, I'm considering doing Dialects(Kansai-ben) for my detailed study and I've got some points so far:

1. Definition/ History of Kansai-ben
2. Japanese people and those studying Japanese perceptions' of dialects/learning dialects (in comparison to Standard Japanese)
3. Use of Kansai-ben in comedy etc.
4. Dialect as a means of identity
5. Benefits of studying Kansai-ben

Do you think this is alright? Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 20, 2014, 11:03:54 pm
@Deshouka

:P Hardly motivational I think.

I think your detailed study topic is very well thought out!
Maybe another point you might need to touch on in addition to those is any problems/negative points associated with kansai ben. And maybe your opinion/solution in relation to those problems. Usually examiners ask about a negative/problem point associated with your topic so you would need to prepare that I would think.

Good outline though! I like it!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: kani on December 16, 2014, 12:59:37 pm
Hi jibba,

Thank you for the reply to my PM earlier, it was very helpful :)
After a bit of brainstorming and digging, I am now considering doing "Valentine's Day customs in Japan" for my detailed study topic; a basic outline looks something like this:


I haven't really expanded on many of these but I was wondering if I could hear your thoughts on this ^^;;
Thank you!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 17, 2014, 02:25:54 pm
Hi kani,

Those points are good starters. I think you should put in some problems/negative points associated with valentine's day customs and your suggested solutions/opinions in relation to those problems. Some type of negative point would usually be asked by the examiners I would think so I'd prepare that too!
Other than that, very good topic and sub-areas!

Good luck!
Also you could reference Korea's 'Black Day' on April 14 if you wanted, or China's Single's day, just for comparisons too!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Mieow on December 17, 2014, 03:31:47 pm
Does anyone have a copy of this year's exam?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: kani on December 18, 2014, 11:36:18 am
Hi kani,

Those points are good starters. I think you should put in some problems/negative points associated with valentine's day customs and your suggested solutions/opinions in relation to those problems. Some type of negative point would usually be asked by the examiners I would think so I'd prepare that too!
Other than that, very good topic and sub-areas!

Good luck!
Also you could reference Korea's 'Black Day' on April 14 if you wanted, or China's Single's day, just for comparisons too!

Ok, thank you so much!! :D
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on December 26, 2014, 01:17:29 pm
Is there a difference between 行きます(いきます)and 行きます(ゆきます)?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 26, 2014, 03:13:40 pm
There's no difference in meaning! ゆきます just sounds more poetic than いきます
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on December 26, 2014, 05:01:24 pm
There's no difference in meaning! ゆきます just sounds more poetic than いきます

Thankyou!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on December 26, 2014, 05:05:48 pm
Hi, I recently learnt that the word '同様’ can be used to mean 'In the same way..'

So I was wondering if anybody could confirm if I was using it correctly, and if not correct my sentence? :)

If I wanted to say " I like meat in the same way I like fruits" would this be correct:

くだ物が好きです。同様に、肉が好きです。

Thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 27, 2014, 01:16:18 pm
Yeah, that sentence is correct but in VCE it's better to use a grammar pattern in your sentences!
果物と同じように肉が好きです。
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on December 27, 2014, 07:27:40 pm
Yeah, that sentence is correct but in VCE it's better to use a grammar pattern in your sentences!
果物と同じように肉が好きです。

Ohh okay thanks, I'll focus on incorporating a variety of grammar patterns into my sentences then! Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on December 27, 2014, 07:32:55 pm
In VCE will you get marks taken of for writing a word without including the kanji in it?

Because for some words such as: こんにちは and できます I recently learnt that they can be written in kanji as: 今日は、and
出来ます respectively. However I have rarely seen such spellings used, and my Japanese teacher told me last year that writing こんにちは as 今日は is strange and rarely seen in Japanese.

So my question is, when writing Japanese words must we always include kanji ( as per the VCE course) or just stick to hiragana if the word is usually written in hiragana anyway? (Such as こんにちは and できます)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 27, 2014, 08:34:16 pm
I think できます in hiragana is okay, but I always write こんにちは as 今日は. It makes sense to write it using the kanji because it shortens the amount of boxes you would use in your genkoyoshi! 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on December 27, 2014, 09:09:53 pm
I think できます in hiragana is okay, but I always write こんにちは as 今日は. It makes sense to write it using the kanji because it shortens the amount of boxes you would use in your genkoyoshi!

Ohhh okay that is a good point! Thankyou for answering my questions! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on December 28, 2014, 10:24:26 pm
I think できます in hiragana is okay, but I always write こんにちは as 今日は. It makes sense to write it using the kanji because it shortens the amount of boxes you would use in your genkoyoshi! 

Honestly, writing either in kanji is unusual.

I actually strongly recommend against writing 「今日は」... I've never seen a modern-day Japanese write it like that.

Also, I write 「出来ます」 but I had a teacher tell me recently that I should write 「できます」. I still write it in kanji out of habit, but it's probably better to write 「できます」.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on December 29, 2014, 12:43:24 am
Honestly, writing either in kanji is unusual.

I actually strongly recommend against writing 「今日は」... I've never seen a modern-day Japanese write it like that.

Also, I write 「出来ます」 but I had a teacher tell me recently that I should write 「できます」. I still write it in kanji out of habit, but it's probably better to write 「できます」.
I have been told off for writing 行けません instead of いけません and 置きます instead of おきます for grammar (i.e. 掃除しないと行けません, 今から準備して置きます). And that's even though it's still technically correct.
If any of you use http://jisho.org , it usually says 'usually in kana' or something like that. I usually check like that/use the hiragana version because there is nothing wrong with it.
Not that I'm an expert or anything lol  :P
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on December 29, 2014, 10:55:40 am
Hello,

I'm a bit confused about the words 国さい(こくさい)and 国さいてき(こくさいてき)as they both mean 'International.'
However the second word is an adjective, whilst the first one (国さい)is not.

In my dictionary (Kodansha) it says 国さい is added to noun bases to make a word. For example, 国さい電話(こくさいでんわ)= International phone.

But if you used 国さいてきな電話 wouldn't that also translate to 'International phone'?

So my two main questions are:
1.) When would you be able to distinguish between which word to use (国さい vs 国さいてき)
2.) What is the word 国さい classified as grammatically if it not an adjective?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on December 29, 2014, 04:13:09 pm
Hello,

I'm a bit confused about the words 国さい(こくさい)and 国さいてき(こくさいてき)as they both mean 'International.'
However the second word is an adjective, whilst the first one (国さい)is not.

In my dictionary (Kodansha) it says 国さい is added to noun bases to make a word. For example, 国さい電話(こくさいでんわ)= International phone.

But if you used 国さいてきな電話 wouldn't that also translate to 'International phone'?

So my two main questions are:
1.) When would you be able to distinguish between which word to use (国さい vs 国さいてき)
2.) What is the word 国さい classified as grammatically if it not an adjective?

Well, unfortunately for us languages aren't just big blobs of words that can be directly translated and make perfect sense. Step one to learning a language is to learn that it's not English  :P

Yes, 国際的(な)is an adjective. 的 is a suffix added to some nouns to make them adjectives. It can be translated as "-like" or something similar. Some words like that are: 個人的(こじんてき)personal, 伝統的(でんとうてき)traditional.

国際 is a noun. You can attach it to other nouns to make them like a title, kind of? Like 国際関係(こくさいかんけい)International Relations -- the subject, not putting emphasis that it means 'relations that are international'.

Using 国際的な電話 is wrong because it's like you're saying the phone itself is international. Like it's been flying to countries around the world. When in actuality, it's like a title. International Phone. The phone isn't international -- it doesn't travel or anything, it's just a phone... that is used for international things?
So,
1) Use 国際的 is an adjective that clearly labels something as 'international' and 国際 as a noun that loosely suggests international uses or something. 国際 is more commonly used as opposed to 国際的. Here are some example sentences for each:
国際:
英語は国際言語である。    English is an international language.
成田には国際空港がある。    There is an international airport in Narita.
 Take note that it's not 'English is a language that is international' and 'There is an airport that is international in Narita' - it's like the the whole two words are the one single noun. International language, international airport.
国際的:
彼女は国際的に著名な画家です。    She has international renown as a painter.
麻薬汚染の問題は国際的である。    The drug problem is international.
 Now compare. It's just 'international renown'. As in the renown is international, recognized by the world. Then the second is an even better example. It just simply says 'international'. It's simply describing that the drug problem happens everywhere in the wold... it is international.
2) A noun.

I hope I helped but I also hope some other people better at Japanese will be able to give you their opinions/better insight lol.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 29, 2014, 06:11:03 pm
Great answer from sarangiya! Very indepth and correct! Great understanding ! (y)

I'll just re-iterate in my own words :)

You basically identified the difference yourself: こくさい is a noun and こくさいてき is the adjective.
1) To distinguish when to use them is to identify if you are describing a noun (then use the adjective) or you just stating the name of something
ie: 私は国際関係(こくさいかんけい)の仕事(しごと)をしたいです
I want to work in international relations

私は国際的な経験(こくさいてきなけいけん)が欲しいい
I want international experience

You can see in the second sentence how the こくさいてきな describes the けいけん, so in that case you needed to use 的 but for the first sentence you state the name of the field of work (international relations) so you don't need to use the describing word.   

2) as stated before it's a noun.

頑張って!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on December 30, 2014, 02:56:26 am
I have been told off for writing 行けません instead of いけません and 置きます instead of おきます for grammar (i.e. 掃除しないと行けません, 今から準備して置きます). And that's even though it's still technically correct.
If any of you use http://jisho.org , it usually says 'usually in kana' or something like that. I usually check like that/use the hiragana version because there is nothing wrong with it.
Not that I'm an expert or anything lol  :P

Ah yeah, don't write those in kanji either! Rule of thumb is that if it's used in a grammatical sense, you don't write the verb in kanji. I don't know if that's a satisfactory explanation, but it seems like you already get it anyway.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on December 30, 2014, 05:24:28 pm
Ah yeah, don't write those in kanji either! Rule of thumb is that if it's used in a grammatical sense, you don't write the verb in kanji. I don't know if that's a satisfactory explanation, but it seems like you already get it anyway.
It was, thank you  :D Hopefully it might help some others who made the same mistake as I lol.
Great answer from sarangiya! Very indepth and correct! Great understanding ! (y)

I'll just re-iterate in my own words :)

You basically identified the difference yourself: こくさい is a noun and こくさいてき is the adjective.
1) To distinguish when to use them is to identify if you are describing a noun (then use the adjective) or you just stating the name of something
ie: 私は国際関係(こくさいかんけい)の仕事(しごと)をしたいです
I want to work in international relations

私は国際的な経験(こくさいてきなけいけん)が欲しいい
I want international experience

You can see in the second sentence how the こくさいてきな describes the けいけん, so in that case you needed to use 的 but for the first sentence you state the name of the field of work (international relations) so you don't need to use the describing word.   

2) as stated before it's a noun.

頑張って!
Thanks so much  ;D
Great answer from you as well (さすがjibbaさんですねー); very concise and easy to understand. I'll take note of your explanation as well  :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Leezy on December 31, 2014, 02:17:13 pm
I think できます in hiragana is okay, but I always write こんにちは as 今日は. It makes sense to write it using the kanji because it shortens the amount of boxes you would use in your genkoyoshi!

If you write こんにちはas 今日は wouldn't that get confused with きょうは(今日は)?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: keltingmeith on December 31, 2014, 02:55:06 pm
If you write こんにちはas 今日は wouldn't that get confused with きょうは(今日は)?

Yep, and the words for "paper" and "god" are pronounced the same - but in any speaking exam, the examiners will know the difference based on the context you give. Similarly, in a written assessment, the context will tell the examiner (and any person you're writing letters to, because you learn languages for life~) which you meant.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: ChickenCh0wM1en on December 31, 2014, 03:23:15 pm
Not sure if I'm allowed to post here but I'm a 3rd year uni student who took Jap 1 (learnt up to Te-form) in semester 1 of 1st year uni. I want to pick Japanese back up, does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on December 31, 2014, 11:12:34 pm
Not sure if I'm allowed to post here but I'm a 3rd year uni student who took Jap 1 (learnt up to Te-form) in semester 1 of 1st year uni. I want to pick Japanese back up, does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks :)

Of course you're allowed to post here, lol :)

In what sort of ways are you hoping to improve? At your level, it's valuable to continue building your vocab and grammar knowledge base. Kanji will be useful too, but I think focus on that a little later unless you're enthusiastic about kanji and find it fun to study them.

At a basic level, there's value in continuing to work from your textbook. Flash cards. If you want digital flash cards, then Anki (free) or Skritter (paid). Play games. My sister speaks Indonesian, not Japanese, but I used to play charades and make her guess what Japanese word I was acting out. Even now we have this in-joke because of how pathetic I was at acting out "potato" and "octopus", lol.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: ChickenCh0wM1en on December 31, 2014, 11:32:52 pm
Of course you're allowed to post here, lol :)

In what sort of ways are you hoping to improve? At your level, it's valuable to continue building your vocab and grammar knowledge base. Kanji will be useful too, but I think focus on that a little later unless you're enthusiastic about kanji and find it fun to study them.

At a basic level, there's value in continuing to work from your textbook. Flash cards. If you want digital flash cards, then Anki (free) or Skritter (paid). Play games. My sister speaks Indonesian, not Japanese, but I used to play charades and make her guess what Japanese word I was acting out. Even now we have this in-joke because of how pathetic I was at acting out "potato" and "octopus", lol.

:) Thanks for your reply Fyrefly.

I want to improve in pretty much all aspects. I've still got to review (re-learn) all the content from Jap 1 :P
I did VCE chinese SL (was horrible at it though) so I find some of the kanji quite similar to the stuff I did in chinese :)

May I ask how far you went with Japanese with the diploma Fyrefly? Would you say you're at a level where you are fluent?
I initially was going to do a Dip Lang (concurrent with Ugrad) for Jap but I bailed out since I didn't want it to detract from my other subjects/GPA. I looked at a Graduate Diploma in Languages (Japanese) but I'm not sure if I want to take it esp if I can't take it concurrently with postgraduate study.

Sorry for all these questions out of the place but did you take Jap 1/2 or VCE jap?? If so, what level of japanese in uni would equate to the same standard in VCE?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 01, 2015, 02:36:42 pm
Yep, and the words for "paper" and "god" are pronounced the same - but in any speaking exam, the examiners will know the difference based on the context you give. Similarly, in a written assessment, the context will tell the examiner (and any person you're writing letters to, because you learn languages for life~) which you meant.

Yeah, this one. You'd be able to find it from the context.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 01, 2015, 02:40:11 pm
Not sure if I'm allowed to post here but I'm a 3rd year uni student who took Jap 1 (learnt up to Te-form) in semester 1 of 1st year uni. I want to pick Japanese back up, does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks :)

If you still have your textbooks go over those again. Really basic level Japanese is a lot about the grammars, so I'd look over Genki 1 & 2 Textbooks! That's quite good for beginners!
I'd definitely recommend that you go over te-form again and revise how to use those verbs, construct sentences, and so forth.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 02, 2015, 09:20:53 pm
Would it be correct to say that the japanese word for  'everyone' is spelled: みんな but when adding the ’さん’ to this word to make it more polite, it is spelled as: みなさん instead of みんなさん?

Arigatou! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 02, 2015, 09:31:04 pm
Would it be correct to say that the japanese word for  'everyone' is spelled: みんな but when adding the ’さん’ to this word to make it more polite, it is spelled as: みなさん instead of みんなさん?

Arigatou! :)
Correct!
you shouldn't say みんなさん, always みなさん
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on January 03, 2015, 04:05:26 am
:) Thanks for your reply Fyrefly.

I want to improve in pretty much all aspects. I've still got to review (re-learn) all the content from Jap 1 :P
I did VCE chinese SL (was horrible at it though) so I find some of the kanji quite similar to the stuff I did in chinese :)

May I ask how far you went with Japanese with the diploma Fyrefly? Would you say you're at a level where you are fluent?
I initially was going to do a Dip Lang (concurrent with Ugrad) for Jap but I bailed out since I didn't want it to detract from my other subjects/GPA. I looked at a Graduate Diploma in Languages (Japanese) but I'm not sure if I want to take it esp if I can't take it concurrently with postgraduate study.

Sorry for all these questions out of the place but did you take Jap 1/2 or VCE jap?? If so, what level of japanese in uni would equate to the same standard in VCE?

Thanks again!

If you'll excuse me, I'm just going to spit out answers to your questions in an equally random fashion, ha ha.

Ah, I had a similar experience when I took beginner Chinese a few years ago. My kanji knowledge made hanyu easy. Basic kanji/hanyu are very similar, I agree.

I finished all the Japanese units offered at Monash. I studied all the way from Japanese 1 to Japanese 12, plus a translation unit. There used to be background speaker units, but I didn't get to do those. I did use both a full diploma worth of credit points plus my degree electives to study that far though. I think it's pretty rare to go from zero Japanese to advanced Japanese while at uni... I don't think anyone else did it while I was at Monash, but not sure about UoM. Going on student exchange really sped that along though. More than anything else, exchange was the best thing I could've done to improve my proficiency.

Students who did VCE Jap can generally go on to enrol in Japanese 5 at Monash. But when I went from Japanese 4 to Japanese 5, I felt the course had been dumbed down to accommodate the knowledge gap the past-VCE students have. They especially suck at kanji (sorry). So to answer your question: two years of language study at Monash (Jap 1, 2, 3 and 4) gets you to a slightly better level than completing VCE Jap.

"Fluency" is a fickle thing. I don't like using the word "fluent"... it's too arbitrary. Last month I had to go to hospital, get an x-ray and MRI, and discuss results/diagnosis/surgery with my doctor. I didn't have any trouble with this at all, and yet I didn't catch it the first time when a waitress today asked me what name my reservation was under. The crazy adventures of a white girl in Japan.

I passed JLPT N2 three years ago. I took N1 on a whim last month, but I'm pretty sure I failed it (results aren't out yet). Holding either N2 or N1 is accepted evidence of Japanese proficiency in the eyes of most Japanese employers.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 03, 2015, 10:11:05 am
Correct!
you shouldn't say みんなさん, always みなさん

Thankyou for your help! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 03, 2015, 10:12:52 am
This might sound really silly, but in Japanese when stating
"Because...." for e.g. "Because its hot"
would it sound strange to say: "あついのでです” or should you just stick to saying: "あついからです”

Also I was reading about the か particle being used to say "or" and I was wondering, does the か always have to come before a noun?

So if I was saying: You can eat food or watch TV would it have to be: あなたは食べ物を食べられることかテレビを見られるができます。
or can you merely say: あなたは食べ物を食べられるかテレビを見られるができます.

Sorry, I have been trying to find a website to properly explain the 'or' Grammar pattern in Japanese using か、but have been unable to!

Thanks in advance! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 03, 2015, 02:28:02 pm
When online dictionaries such as jisho.org states "usually written using kana alone" By kana are they referring to hiragana?
Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Deshouka on January 03, 2015, 03:05:15 pm
This might sound really silly, but in Japanese when stating
"Because...." for e.g. "Because its hot"
would it sound strange to say: "あついのでです” or should you just stick to saying: "あついからです”

Also I was reading about the か particle being used to say "or" and I was wondering, does the か always have to come before a noun?

So if I was saying: You can eat food or watch TV would it have to be: あなたは食べ物を食べられることかテレビを見られるができます。
or can you merely say: あなたは食べ物を食べられるかテレビを見られるができます.

Sorry, I have been trying to find a website to properly explain the 'or' Grammar pattern in Japanese using か、but have been unable to!

Thanks in advance! :)

Hi, my Japanese is not that great, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
First of all I would say あついからです。暑いのでです  sounds incomplete and strange to me.
For using か you can  simply add it after a noun
ジュースか水がほしい?
For verbs its just plain form +  か. However, I don't think you can say 食べられることかテレビ..

In reference to your sentence remember when you use potential form, がis used and remember that たべられる refers to the capacity to eat something. Eg さしみがたべられる。
Remember てもいいですか? :P
So I think it should something like this:
食べ物を食べるかテレビを見るかどちらかでもいいですよ。
Hope I helped you and I'm not wrong. LOL
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 04, 2015, 01:42:53 am
This might sound really silly, but in Japanese when stating
"Because...." for e.g. "Because its hot"
would it sound strange to say: "あついのでです” or should you just stick to saying: "あついからです”

Also I was reading about the か particle being used to say "or" and I was wondering, does the か always have to come before a noun?

So if I was saying: You can eat food or watch TV would it have to be: あなたは食べ物を食べられることかテレビを見られるができます。
or can you merely say: あなたは食べ物を食べられるかテレビを見られるができます.

Sorry, I have been trying to find a website to properly explain the 'or' Grammar pattern in Japanese using か、but have been unable to!

Thanks in advance! :)

You can't say あついのでです but you can say あついのです :)
However often, especially in spoken Japanese, they will shorten のです into んです so it would become あついんです。

You can use か with verbs too, it doesn't have to be nouns
学校に行くか、プールに行くか、まよっている。
I'm not sure whether I'll go to school, or go to the pool.

The sentence you made sounds very strange.
I get what you are trying to say, but I don't think you can say it like that in Japanese.

If you wanted to say, you should eat food or watch tv you would say (as similar to what Deshouka suggested)
食べ物を食べるか、テレビを見るかどちらかをしてください!

食べ物を食べるかテレビを見るかどちらかでもいいですよ as Deshouka suggested, is also grammatically correct.
Eating food or watching TV, it's okay to do either.

But in Japanese you cannot say something like あなたは食べ物を食べられるかテレビを見られるができます, it''s unnatural
Saying 'can watch' 'can eat' doesn't really work in this situation. Just watch or eat

Hope you could understand.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on January 04, 2015, 04:39:14 pm
When online dictionaries such as jisho.org states "usually written using kana alone" By kana are they referring to hiragana?
Thanks :)
Kana (仮名)refers to both hiragana (平仮名)and katakana(片仮名), but obviously you would write it in hiragana unless it's foreign.
An example: Even though 'Australia' can be written in Kanji (濠太剌利), that dictionary should say 'usually written in kana alone' - but they don't mean hiragana, they mean katakana, as you'd expect.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 08, 2015, 04:11:21 pm
Thanks for all the help Jibba and Sarangiya! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 08, 2015, 04:12:35 pm
What exactly are embedded questions in Japanese?

I'm having trouble finding information about them, and why the か particle is used within the sentence, for these?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 08, 2015, 04:43:58 pm
For sentences involving the explanatory の particle

e.g. あなたは学生なの?
Is there a polite form of these sentences? Would the polite form of the above example sentence be: ’あなたは学生なのですか’?

Thanks! :)


Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: kani on January 11, 2015, 05:56:01 pm
For sentences involving the explanatory の particle

e.g. あなたは学生なの?
Is there a polite form of these sentences? Would the polite form of the above example sentence be: ’あなたは学生なのですか’?

Thanks! :)

Sorry to intrude this thread so suddenly!
I'm no expert in Japanese, but I believe the polite form would be something along the lines of あなたは学生(なん)ですか, なの being a more feminine version of (なん)です(か).
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 11, 2015, 09:30:10 pm
Hi Razz!

I think you are on the right track. なの is the casual form of なのですか

Often girls would use なの

Girl: 学生なの?
Boy: 学生か?

It's not really a grammar pattern in this usage, just an ending pattern used for females.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 15, 2015, 05:42:30 pm
Thanks for the help Jibba and Kani!

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 15, 2015, 05:44:25 pm
Can someone please explain the difference between a subject and a topic in a Japanese sentence?

 I never really know what they actually mean!

Thanks,
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 23, 2015, 05:49:47 pm
What does the word もう mean in Japanese?

I have seen it been used in quite a few Japanese sentences and am unsure of the meaning!

Thanks in advance  :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Caesius on January 23, 2015, 11:11:49 pm
What does the word もう mean in Japanese?

I have seen it been used in quite a few Japanese sentences and am unsure of the meaning!

Thanks in advance  :)
Hello, as I'm still learning (inexperienced) feel free to correct me!

In an affirmative sentence もう would mean "already"
お昼ご飯をもう食べましたか。
Have you eaten lunch already?

However, in a negative sentence, it would mean "(not) any more"
バレーボールをもうしていません。
I am not doing volleyball any more.

Additionally, it can also mean "more"
もう二つ下さい。
Two more, please.

もうゆっくり話して下さい。
Please speak more slowly.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 24, 2015, 06:31:55 pm
Thanks! Caesius

Would it be correct to say that the difference between 働く(はたらく) and 勤める(つとめる)
is that you use the particle に with 勤める(つとめる)and をwith 働く(はたらく)?

And 勤めるis used for white collar jobs whilst 働くcan be used for any type of job?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on January 31, 2015, 09:29:00 pm
For VCE purposes, ofcourse you must write the prescribed kanji in any words which include these prescribed kanji, however what do you do when you get a word in which some of the kanji is prescribed and some is post-VCE.

Just write the kanji you know and the rest of the word in hiragana right?
Yes, that's what I usually do.
However, I am a bit stumped when you get words in which you don't know which hiragana characters belong to which kanji.

For example: 生意気(なまいき)The first and last kanji are part of the VCE Japanese course, so if I were to write this word excluding the middle kanji, I don't know  how  because I don't know which hiragana accounts for the middle kanji.

What should I do in this situation?
I don't want to be penalised for not using appropriate VCE kanji, but at the same time, I don't want to spell the word wrong?

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Q.E.D. on January 31, 2015, 09:47:11 pm
For VCE purposes, ofcourse you must write the prescribed kanji in any words which include these prescribed kanji, however what do you do when you get a word in which some of the kanji is prescribed and some is post-VCE.

Just write the kanji you know and the rest of the word in hiragana right?
Yes, that's what I usually do.
However, I am a bit stumped when you get words in which you don't know which hiragana characters belong to which kanji.

For example: 生意気(なまいき)The first and last kanji are part of the VCE Japanese course, so if I were to write this word excluding the middle kanji, I don't know  how  because I don't know which hiragana accounts for the middle kanji.

What should I do in this situation?
I don't want to be penalised for not using appropriate VCE kanji, but at the same time, I don't want to spell the word wrong?

Hi there!

I'm almost sure you are NOT gonna get penalised if you use the CORRECT kanji even they are not 'prescribed'.
And for 生意気(なまいき), you should know that 「生」 can pronounce 「なま」 which means "raw", and of course 「気」 is 「き」, then the middle kanji must pronounce 「い」.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on February 01, 2015, 11:20:31 am
Hi there!

I'm almost sure you are NOT gonna get penalised if you use the CORRECT kanji even they are not 'prescribed'.
And for 生意気(なまいき), you should know that 「生」 can pronounce 「なま」 which means "raw", and of course 「気」 is 「き」, then the middle kanji must pronounce 「い」.

Oh alright, thankyou so much!   ;D
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on February 01, 2015, 01:31:24 pm
Can anyone please explain the slight nuances between the different Japanese conditionals: なら、ば、たら、もし。

I've been reading about these on different websites, but still don't seem to quite understand the differences in usage between them!

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on February 02, 2015, 11:12:20 am
@RazzMeTazz

With 務める and 働く you would use に and で respectively
父は会社につとめている
父は会社で働いている

You are right, in that つとめる is used only for white-collar jobs where as 働く is used for any type of work
ie: you can't say 父は家につとめている but you can say 父は家で働いている

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on February 02, 2015, 11:27:37 am
I think a lot of people would not know the difference between all the 'Ifs and whens' so I'll try do a simple summary

~ば
Can't use with past tense (phrase after ~ば), always use in present.
Cannot use with completed actions
ie: うんてんすれば、色々なところに行けます

~たら
Can use with completed actions
Can use both past/present tense
The 'second action' occurs after the 'conditional'
ie: 飲みすぎたら、歩けなくなった
日本に行ったら、あきはばらに行きたいです
*If you can use ~ば you can also use ~たら to replace that grammar, but not the other way around (because ~ば can't be used with past tense, where as たら can)

~なら
For なら the 'second action' comes before the conditional
うんてんするなら、れんしゅうがひつようです。
日本に行くなら、日本語のれんしゅうがひつようです。
You can only use this with present tense

~もし
Always use for hypothetical situations
もし、明日ひまだったら、いっしょにえいがを見に行きますか?

~と
Also we have と
This one is a natural cause and effect, where the second action will always happen after the conditional
酒を飲むと、うんてんできなくなる。

Hope that helps :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on February 02, 2015, 05:47:26 pm
I think a lot of people would not know the difference between all the 'Ifs and whens' so I'll try do a simple summary

~ば
Can't use with past tense, always use in present.
Cannot use with completed actions
ie: うんてんすれば、色々なところに行けます

~たら
Can use with completed actions
Can use both past/present tense
The 'second action' occurs after the 'conditional'
ie: 飲みすぎたら、歩けなくなった
日本に行ったら、あきはばらに行きたいです
*If you can use ~ば you can also use ~たら to replace that grammar, but not the other way around (because ~ば can't be used with past tense, where as たら can)

~なら
For なら the 'second action' comes before the conditional
うんてんするなら、れんしゅうがひつようです。
日本に行くなら、日本語のれんしゅうがひつようです。
You can only use this with present tense

~もし
Always use for hypothetical situations
もし、明日ひまだったら、いっしょにえいがを見に行きますか?

~と
Also we have と
This one is a natural cause and effect, where the second action will always happen after the conditional
酒を飲むと、うんてんできなくなる。

Hope that helps :)

Thankyou so much Jibba! :) Yes, that did help me a lot! Except I was just a bit confused by what you mean by with ' ば 'you can't use it with past tense, always use in present' and with たら you can use both past/present tense'.

Is that referring to the action before the ば or たら?

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on February 02, 2015, 08:53:57 pm
It's referring to the action after ば or たら

ie: 飲みすぎたら、歩けなくなった
you CANNOT say 飲みすぎれば、歩けなくなった

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on February 02, 2015, 10:35:52 pm
It's referring to the action after ば or たら

ie: 飲みすぎたら、歩けなくなった
you CANNOT say 飲みすぎれば、歩けなくなった

Oh I understand now, thanks.
So when the action after the たら form is in past tense, is the translation of the sentence changed from 'if' to 'when'
for e.g. Does your example sentence: 飲みすぎたら、歩けなくなった translate to: When you drank excessively, you couldn't walk?

 :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on February 17, 2015, 08:52:08 pm
In relation to Japanese writing tasks, is the term 'report' synonymous with an 'article' ?

:)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on February 26, 2015, 10:01:12 pm
Can someone please explain how I would use the word '両方’ to mean 'both'?

Do you always have to use it with the word 'とも’ after it?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 03, 2015, 10:43:24 pm
@Razz

You can use it without とも
ie: 両方あげてください
Give me both.

両方のチームが強いです
Both teams are strong

With とも
両方とも強いチームです。
Both teams are strong

両方ともおもしろいえいがです
They are both interesting movies.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Caesius on March 07, 2015, 01:33:55 pm
Just curious, what level of proficiency does one reach by the end of VCE Japanese?
Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 07, 2015, 02:18:26 pm
If you have a brother or sister in Year 1 or 2, think of how good their English is.
The equivalent of that in Japanese would be about where your level would be :) But depending on a person's own abiity it could be greater or worse. You would able to have basic coversations but you wouldn't be able to talk about technical things.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Deshouka on March 07, 2015, 07:06:59 pm
Hi guys,

I have a listening SAC in about two weeks and I have a few questions.
 1. Do we have to write full sentences or can it be incomplete sentences.
 2. Can we answer questions in plain form?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 07, 2015, 07:48:22 pm
Does anyone know where I can download Genki 1 or Genki 2 workbook listening tasks?

I was also trying to download the JLPT N4 and N3 listening exams, but wasn't sure where to get them from. Can you download them from the JLPT website itself?

Also in the VCE study design for Japanese SL, there is a table containing the Prescribed Themes/Topics for the VCE Japanese course, such as The Individual, The Japanese speaking communities, The changing world.

Does this mean that in the final VCAA exam the listening, reading and writing section will all be based within these topics?

Any help would be great!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Mieow on March 07, 2015, 08:35:09 pm
Does anyone know where I can download Genki 1 or Genki 2 workbook listening tasks?

I was also trying to download the JLPT N4 and N3 listening exams, but wasn't sure where to get them from. Can you download them from the JLPT website itself?

Any help would be great!

I'm not sure if it's still there but a few years ago I downloaded Genki I and II from some pirates at a certain bay  :-X (edit: actually now that I think about it Idk if it was from that site but it was torrented for sure)
They're relatively easy to find though so just keep looking around Google and I'm sure you'll find it eventually.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on March 08, 2015, 12:30:18 pm
Hi guys,

I have a listening SAC in about two weeks and I have a few questions.
 1. Do we have to write full sentences or can it be incomplete sentences.
 2. Can we answer questions in plain form?

Thanks!

1. You should always write Japanese responses in full sentences. English responses can be more incomplete but ensure it is accurately translated.
2. Plain form should be fine but just stay consistent!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 08, 2015, 11:32:20 pm
Are there any specific rules for using the word 丁度 (ちょうど) which means 'just/exactly'

Do you have to put it exactly before the verb in the sentence such as this:

西沢さんは電車にちょうど間に合った

or before the noun+verb part of the sentence, such as this:


 西沢さんはちょうど電車に間に合った。

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on March 15, 2015, 12:03:07 am
Does anyone know where I can download Genki 1 or Genki 2 workbook listening tasks?

I was also trying to download the JLPT N4 and N3 listening exams, but wasn't sure where to get them from. Can you download them from the JLPT website itself?

Also in the VCE study design for Japanese SL, there is a table containing the Prescribed Themes/Topics for the VCE Japanese course, such as The Individual, The Japanese speaking communities, The changing world.

Does this mean that in the final VCAA exam the listening, reading and writing section will all be based within these topics?

Any help would be great!

1. You could just ask any student who uses these books and has them in hard copy. They have them in CDs. You could also download the other states' equivalent listenings (from experience HSC is easier, but SACE is about our Yr 12 level).
2. Not sure.
3. Generally speaking, yes, but it's actually really broad when you think about it. You could get questions related to recycling, all the way to a train announcement, even just a small conversation between two Japanese friends. You could even get things that lean on the edge of these topics. It's a huge scope to go through.
Tip: They love hanging around the Japanese culture, lifestyle and travelling in Japan (either as an exchange student or on holiday), but environment is due for a comeback one of these years. (They haven't done it in like 6 or 7 years I think.)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 16, 2015, 10:23:42 pm
What would be the best way to improve my writing? Would it just be best to write atleast one essay per week on any practice prompts? Is there a more specific way to go about it, such as focusing on each theme/sub-topic and writing essays related to these one at a time, so that.you can.cover all the possible type of topics you could get in the exam? Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on March 16, 2015, 11:16:07 pm
What would be the best way to improve my writing? Would it just be best to write atleast one essay per week on any practice prompts? Is there a more specific way to go about it, such as focusing on each theme/sub-topic and writing essays related to these one at a time, so that.you can.cover all the possible type of topics you could get in the exam? Thanks :)

Again, it's all about yourself and how you learn best. There are tips all over the Japanese board (thanks Fyrefly, jibba and the rest) about improving writing and reading. My Japanese sensei liked to give us topics once every while (about once every 2-3 weeks), but more often than not, I did extra on random prompts in Year 12 (not just VCAA ones). VCAA provides enough for two years anyway though, if you do nearly every one on each paper at least once, once a week or fortnight.

I tended to not really follow a pattern (remember that you will not get 2 prompts of the same style in the exam paper), but try not to do JUST on the one topic or the one writing style where you can i.e. don't just keep doing diary entries or just stuff about travel, etc. (Exception: creative writing ones.) You can improve yourself in all areas that way and weed out weaknesses. If you randomise your topics, you can't forget anything about a topic (e.g. bunpo and tango) and how to write in a special format (e.g. diary entry vs. report writing). If you stick to one topic, you'd move on to the next one and forget all about the old one.

By the end of doing a lot of these, you find you'd end up doing nearly all of it and covered a lot of ground. Just don't force yourself to do too many, unless you honestly are getting really bad scores (i.e. near failing) in Japanese, because you'll hate yourself.

tl;dr: Just randomise your prompts and cover as many as possible, but not so that you hate yourself. This way you can weed out weaknesses and retain your Japanese knowledge, but cover most bases and can't really be caught out.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on March 19, 2015, 05:29:41 pm
Thanks so much for the advice/help AngelWings! :) I'll definitely put them into action!

Also, can anyone explain how you attribute counters to nouns?

e.g. If I wanted to say two books would I just use the を particle and say 本を二さつです。

What about for relating counters to people and living things?

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 02, 2015, 06:02:24 pm
Would it be correct to say that the words こちら、そちら、あちら、どちら have three sets of meanings?

The first one set of meaning being in terms of direction:  this direction/that direction/that direction over there/which direction?

And the second meanings being the polite form of これ、それ、あれ、どれ?

And lastly the third meanings, being the polite form of ここ、そこ、あそこ、どこ?

Also, for the set of words: これら、それら、あれら would the question word be どれら?

:) Thankyou

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Deshouka on April 02, 2015, 06:45:26 pm
Would it be correct to say that the words こちら、そちら、あちら、どちら have three sets of meanings?

The first one set of meaning being in terms of direction:  this direction/that direction/that direction over there/which direction?

And the second meanings being the polite form of これ、それ、あれ、どれ?

And lastly the third meanings, being the polite form of ここ、そこ、あそこ、どこ?

Also, for the set of words: これら、それら、あれら would the question word be どれら?

:) Thankyou

The question word or plural form of どちらis actually どれ.
でも、僕が知っている限りでは「どれら」は言葉じゃないと思います。
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on April 03, 2015, 11:37:42 am
@Razz

Great understanding! You're right. It's a little confusing with どちら because it also has the meaning of polite form of where.

どれ also has the meaning of which of three and どちら has the meaning of which of two.

as said before どれら doesn't exist.

I wouldn't worry too much bout the polite forms at this stage, mainly the different between which of three and which of two.

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 04, 2015, 10:00:34 pm
Thanks Jibba and Deshouka! :)

Is ううん the casual way of saying いいえ in Japanese?

:) Thanks
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on April 04, 2015, 10:29:04 pm
Thanks Jibba and Deshouka! :)

Is ううん the casual way of saying いいえ in Japanese?

:) Thanks

Yes.
And うん is casual for 'yes'.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 05, 2015, 09:22:43 am
Thanks Fyrefly! :)

In my textbook (Wakatta) for the そう pattern to describe how things look/sound it says:

"If you are looking directly at something or someone and it is obvious what it or he/she is like then you will not use the そう pattern. If you are looking at a cute baby, you would not use そう and say the baby looks cute because everyone can see that the baby actually is cute."

This confused me. Then when would it be okay to use そう to describe what something looks like? Is it only when you are not directly looking at the object?

But then one of the example sentences given in the book is: けんたろうくんのお父さんはうれしそうでした。In this case wouldn't the speaker have to be looking directly at Kentarou's father to comment on what he looks like?

Any explanations would be great :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 05, 2015, 12:12:20 pm
If I wanted to say: " My grandmother gave my sister flowers" would the correct word to use be くれる?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Deshouka on April 05, 2015, 01:12:44 pm
If I wanted to say: " My grandmother gave my sister flowers" would the correct word to use be くれる?

Thanks :)
Yep! A good way to remember is that when a more distant person gives you or a closer person something, its くれる。
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on April 05, 2015, 01:59:33 pm
Thanks Fyrefly! :)

In my textbook (Wakatta) for the そう pattern to describe how things look/sound it says:

"If you are looking directly at something or someone and it is obvious what it or he/she is like then you will not use the そう pattern. If you are looking at a cute baby, you would not use そう and say the baby looks cute because everyone can see that the baby actually is cute."

This confused me. Then when would it be okay to use そう to describe what something looks like? Is it only when you are not directly looking at the object?

But then one of the example sentences given in the book is: けんたろうくんのお父さんはうれしそうでした。In this case wouldn't the speaker have to be looking directly at Kentarou's father to comment on what he looks like?

Any explanations would be great :)

Context is everything here. The speaker may have seen him indirectly, like a photo or something, I guess, or just made a guess from what Kentarou or some other person has said. For example, if I said my father's strict (not that he is), and you paraphrased it into "Angel Wings' father seems strict.", the only evidence would be from hearsay, but you would not have actually seen my father. Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 05, 2015, 03:26:48 pm
Yes that makes a lot of sense! Thanks so much AngelWings for the explanation! :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 08, 2015, 09:03:49 pm
I'm a bit confused with tense!

If I needed to use the よう grammar pattern to say: "They don't seem to be married" what tense would my verb before the よう be in?

Would it be correct to say: あの人たちは、けっこんしていないようです?

Also if in general, I had : verb positive plain present form + よう does that mean "seems I/they will do *insert verb*  " ?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 13, 2015, 06:23:38 pm
I don't quite understand the usage of 'Verb dictionary form + のに ' to emphasise  the means or lack of means for achieving a purpose. (As explained by Wakatta textbook!)

Some example sentences and their translations which have been given are:

着物を着るのにじかんがかかる。It takes time to put on a kimono.

車を買うのにお金がたりない。I don't have enough money to buy a car.

Is it similar to the ために pattern?

:) Any help would be appreciated!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jesterino on April 13, 2015, 10:44:10 pm
Hey guys, I'm in desperate need of help when it comes to essay writing. I have a solid grasp of the grammar patterns and vocabulary however when the time comes to writing, I can't string together a sentence that is, you could say, up to par with Japanese 3/4. The entire essay ends up being very robotic and formulaic, consisting of statements after statements which lack the "flow" and cohesion that would be present in a conversation or an email. Its strange but honestly, I just don't know what to write or even how to start, no matter the topic. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on April 14, 2015, 12:42:49 pm
Hey guys, I'm in desperate need of help when it comes to essay writing. I have a solid grasp of the grammar patterns and vocabulary however when the time comes to writing, I can't string together a sentence that is, you could say, up to par with Japanese 3/4. The entire essay ends up being very robotic and formulaic, consisting of statements after statements which lack the "flow" and cohesion that would be present in a conversation or an email. Its strange but honestly, I just don't know what to write or even how to start, no matter the topic. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated!
Try reading really easy Japanese novels/books/articles/written things on the internet. Use Lang-8 and make a few story-like entries and ask for advice on cohesion and composition. The best thing you can do is read it or just in general be exposed to Japanese and take notice of the flow or how things are expressed. I'm personally against 'grammar patterns' because I think it's treating a language too much like a mathematical formula - and as such there is that lack of 'flow' or the artistic element that all languages have.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 15, 2015, 10:12:56 pm
For the 'うちに' grammar pattern, which means "while" can you use  noun before the 'うち’に' part?

:) Thanks
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on April 16, 2015, 06:16:07 pm
For the 'うちに' grammar pattern, which means "while" can you use  noun before the 'うち’に' part?

:) Thanks

I can't think of an example where that would make sense. Do you have something in mind?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 16, 2015, 08:22:57 pm
I can't think of an example where that would make sense. Do you have something in mind?

If I wanted to say "While I was a child, I liked dolls" could I say: 子供のころのうちににんぎょうが好きでした。?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on April 16, 2015, 11:53:57 pm
If I wanted to say "While I was a child, I liked dolls" could I say: 子供のころのうちににんぎょうが好きでした。?


Nah, うちに is more when there's a pressing time limit, not a generalised period.
I guess you could use it with time nouns though. 「今のうちに」or 「一晩のうちに」 for instance.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on April 18, 2015, 01:28:57 am
If I wanted to say "While I was a child, I liked dolls" could I say: 子供のころのうちににんぎょうが好きでした。?

Cut the うちに out and you're fine. :D
Your English is where you're going wrong, I think. :-\ I feel that "while I was a child" is something not natural in English. Try thinking of sentences in Japanese rather than translating across languages because it will never work - that's my advice  ;D
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on April 27, 2015, 05:47:24 pm
Can you use the potential form in the たら grammar pattern? For example would it be grammatically correct for me to say: "行けたら” meaning "If/when I am able to go" ?

I've had contrasting opinions about this with some teachers saying I cannot do that, whilst native Japanese speakers have corrected me for not using the potential form before the たら、and have prompted me to use it?

Would this just be due to a difference in colloquial Japanese and written/grammatically correct Japanese?

:) Thanks! Any insight would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on May 01, 2015, 11:13:55 pm
@Razz

You can 100% definitely say 行けたら If i'm able to go. If non-native teachers are telling you it's wrong, they're wrong.

Whilst I was in Japan, I found a lot of Japanese people really try to be polite when you invite them to something and they often say "行けたら行く" instead of saying they can't go haha.



Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on May 02, 2015, 10:16:47 pm
@Razz

You can 100% definitely say 行けたら If i'm able to go. If non-native teachers are telling you it's wrong, they're wrong.

Whilst I was in Japan, I found a lot of Japanese people really try to be polite when you invite them to something and they often say "行けたら行く" instead of saying they can't go haha.

Thanks Jibba, for the clarification!

Hahahah, oh okay :p
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on May 17, 2015, 05:43:02 am
Can someone please explain the difference between 知る and 分かる?

:)Thanks
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: konnichiwa on May 23, 2015, 08:32:04 am
Hi guys,

I've been trying to decide on a detailed study topic since like forever, and really want to do japanese teas (matcha, sencha etc).
I was talking to my tutor about it and she said that my detailed study should have an issue I can discuss, I'm not really sure what she means by this :( plus, tea is pretty much only has good points
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on May 25, 2015, 06:34:30 pm
Hi guys,

I've been trying to decide on a detailed study topic since like forever, and really want to do japanese teas (matcha, sencha etc).
I was talking to my tutor about it and she said that my detailed study should have an issue I can discuss, I'm not really sure what she means by this :( plus, tea is pretty much only has good points

I can see why you'd want to do tea as a topic. It's very interesting and indeed a very important part of traditional Japan. However, your tutor has the right of it. What she is meaning to say is that your topic is too narrow. You will be talking for 7 whole minutes and you need to keep the conversation flowing well, inviting questions from the assessors so they can accurately test your reaction to unpredicted questions (which will then let them know your vocabulary, grammar and listening skills - as well as your skill to make up a sentence on the spot, which is what language is).
In order to do that, you really need to choose a comprehensive topic that invites a variety of questions that you can be ready to answer at the drop of a hat. Even better, with your own opinion when your limited knowledge of the subject fails. That's why 'issues' etc. are a good idea, because you can adopt a variety of answering techniques to appeal to why you think something and how you support your views, which are all parts of the assessment - not just for VCE for the JLPT and other tests.
As for other reasons, the topic needs to be easily researchable and have a variety of resources to help you learn, otherwise you'll be in for a tough time :(

Why not think about it a little more? I would really suggest looking at Japanese news sites or jumping on the internet to ask some Japanese about some problems they're experiencing or what they love most about their country etc.
Good luck~
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 03, 2015, 12:21:47 am
Hi guys,

I've been trying to decide on a detailed study topic since like forever, and really want to do japanese teas (matcha, sencha etc).
I was talking to my tutor about it and she said that my detailed study should have an issue I can discuss, I'm not really sure what she means by this :( plus, tea is pretty much only has good points

Most examiners would expect the student to raise some issue associated with their topic and suggest a solution to that problem. That's what I think your tutor was talking about.
You would need to raise some sort of an issue associated with tea production maybe something like environmental concerns, or unfair conditions of workers, etc?(I'm not sure if they are actually issues I was just suggesting some).

I chose vocaloids, and I made up issues like in the future, singers would cease to exist so that's an issue.

You definitely would need to raise issue points if you want to do well in your detailed study.

Good luck.

Japanese tea is a great topic.
 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 03, 2015, 12:40:27 am
I don't quite understand the usage of 'Verb dictionary form + のに ' to emphasise  the means or lack of means for achieving a purpose. (As explained by Wakatta textbook!)

Some example sentences and their translations which have been given are:

着物を着るのにじかんがかかる。It takes time to put on a kimono.

車を買うのにお金がたりない。I don't have enough money to buy a car.

Is it similar to the ために pattern?

:) Any help would be appreciated!

Sorry for the late response, I think I missed your posts on the previous page.

のに is similar to ために if you look at the english translation of 'purpose' but they are not interchangeable.

のに represents a 'function(機能)' or 'situation (場合)' of your purpose rather than an 'intention (意志)'

Situation
着物を着るのに、時間がかかる
着物を着る場合に、時間がかかる
To wear a kimino, it would take time
In the case of wearing a kimino, it would take time
(Excuse poor english grammar, I translated literally)

Function
このじしょは日本語を勉強するのに、便利です
This dictionary is useful for studying Japanese

The dictionary has the functional purpose of being useful for studying Japanese
(again excuse literal translation)

Intention
日本語を勉強するために、じしょを買いました
In order to study Japanese, I bought this dictionary
(You had an intention to study Japanese)

I think some Japanese people would also not know the difference between these two grammars, so this is just my understanding of them. I might be wrong, so if you have further problems best to contact your teacher :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on June 09, 2015, 10:24:04 am
Thanks so much for the help Jibba!

:)

Also with VCE Japanese writing is it good or bad to link more than one grammar pattern together? My teacher seems to prefer simple writing, without many linked grammar patterns, and when I do otherwise she says that the writing is "too heavy".

Could this be a result of me linking two grammar patterns together in a way that is unnatural?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 09, 2015, 11:36:26 am
Linking too many grammar patterns together may result in a lot of unnatural phrases, so you should be careful when doing so.
I wouldn't say avoid it all together, but try learn why it sounds unnatural and avoid it when your teacher points it out.

It is possible to mix a few patterns together and keep it natural.
For example: と比べてみると - mixes ~と and ~てみる
~について話したいと思います - mixes ~について, ~たい and と思います


Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on June 09, 2015, 06:33:53 pm
Thanks Jibba for all the help!

Is there a specific grammar pattern when using the verb 'かんじます’ and '分かります', which is similar to the grammar pattern used with ’思います'?

Or can you simply just say: "noun + かんじます/わかります" ?

But what if I wanted to say something like: " I feel cold."
Since cold is not a noun, I'm a little confused on how I would structure this using the verb: かんじます.


Thanks! :)





Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 10, 2015, 12:05:58 am
@Razz

You can say と感じます or と分かります similar to と思います
You don't often use 感じます in present tense I think. But it can be used. It might sound a bit unnatural.

For I feel cold. You should just say 寒いです. Japanese people just say that when they want to say 'I feel cold'.

寒いと感じました. I felt cold. You can use it like that.

I get the feeling, you would need to say a bit more than I just feel cold. Using と感じました places a bit more of an emphasis on whatever you are feeling. (I think haha)

something like
久しぶりに寒いと感じました。
It has been a long time since I felt cold.


Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on June 10, 2015, 04:31:40 pm
Thanks for the help Jibba!

:)

Do you guys recommend any supplementary Japanese books/textbook type of things, or is the Wakatta course book just fine? :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 12, 2015, 10:31:35 am
Wakatta book's the best one out there for explaining grammar.

You could use the Leading Edge book if you wanted some more VCE exam related practice. The Genki books have decent explanations as well.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on July 17, 2015, 07:31:29 am
In my textbook the translation for this sentence:

すみこさんの英語のテストは今日だっだそうだけど、どうだっだだろう。

the English translation is given as: "Apparently Sumiko's English test was today, I wonder how she went."
But I don't quite get the meaning of the 'けど' in the Japanese sentence then, because it doesn't seem to come up in the English translation? Is there another meaning for けど other than 'but'. ?

ありがとう. :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on July 21, 2015, 01:58:49 pm
In my textbook the translation for this sentence:

すみこさんの英語のテストは今日だっだそうだけど、どうだっだだろう。

the English translation is given as: "Apparently Sumiko's English test was today, I wonder how she went."
But I don't quite get the meaning of the 'けど' in the Japanese sentence then, because it doesn't seem to come up in the English translation? Is there another meaning for けど other than 'but'. ?

ありがとう. :)

The translation is looking at the meaning rather than the actual content. In fact, in my opinion it's quite a poor translation. It does really have them same emotional nuances.
Anyhow.
けど is indeed 'but' - used to contrast. However, it is still in itself a conjunction and you can use it as such. It works in English the same way.
すみこさんの英語のテストは(subject) = Sumiko's English test...
今日だっだそうだけど、= [seemed to be] today, but
どうだっだだろう。= how was it, [I wonder]?
In my personal opinion - which could be wrong - I think it is a sentence that is meant to convey some worry.
"Sumiko's English test was meant to be today but I wonder how it went..."
Maybe she is wondering if a) the test date was moved, b) where Sumiko went or not, c) how she actually did on the test.
It's probably c) though, because I can't really understand why one would say that for a) or b).

But in any case, you can see how I used 'but'. It wasn't contrasting or differentiating two opinions, it was just leading into the next statement with a little bit of emotion.
That's what I think at least.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on July 21, 2015, 07:13:36 pm
The translation is looking at the meaning rather than the actual content. In fact, in my opinion it's quite a poor translation. It does really have them same emotional nuances.
Anyhow.
けど is indeed 'but' - used to contrast. However, it is still in itself a conjunction and you can use it as such. It works in English the same way.
すみこさんの英語のテストは(subject) = Sumiko's English test...
今日だっだそうだけど、= [seemed to be] today, but
どうだっだだろう。= how was it, [I wonder]?
In my personal opinion - which could be wrong - I think it is a sentence that is meant to convey some worry.
"Sumiko's English test was meant to be today but I wonder how it went..."
Maybe she is wondering if a) the test date was moved, b) where Sumiko went or not, c) how she actually did on the test.
It's probably c) though, because I can't really understand why one would say that for a) or b).

But in any case, you can see how I used 'but'. It wasn't contrasting or differentiating two opinions, it was just leading into the next statement with a little bit of emotion.
That's what I think at least.

Thankyou so much sarangiya for the detailed explanation! It really helped :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Fyrefly on July 21, 2015, 08:55:34 pm
Sarangiya's explanation is on the money.

A few things to note when 「けど」 is used as a conversation marker: it's used a lot by women in casual conversation, and depends on the sort of intonation it's paired with.

Example:

Friend: ね、昨日このピアスを買ったんだけど。
Me: かわいい!よく似合うよ!

Friend: Hey, I bought these earrings yesterday.
Me: They're so cute! They really suit you!

My friend was drawing attention to her new earrings and I guess was fishing for opinions and compliments. Her tone was upbeat. In this sense, けど is not used in a doubtful or negative way. It simply functions as a conversation marker. Without it, she would have simply been stating that she bought earrings yesterday. But with it, she is able to lead into a conversation about the earrings. It makes her speech pattern sound natural.

In English, the same effect is reached often just through intonation, as in the translated example sentence above. A flat or falling intonation at the end of a sentence is a statement. It closes the sentence off. A rising intonation at the end of the sentence is conversational and invites commentary. Almost like a question, but without actually asking anything.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on July 24, 2015, 05:10:42 pm
Agreed with the above explanations! Thank you!

Only thing I could add in addition to the above is that in Japanese sometimes you can imply sentences/meanings without explicitly saying them.
For example with the above the full meaning as Fyfefly explained would be 機能このピアスを買ったんだけど。。(どうかな?)

Another example might be
Friend: 明日、パーティーに行きますか?
Me: 明日はちょっと。。(だめです)

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on August 08, 2015, 08:28:42 pm
Thankyou for all the help everyone! :)

I was wondering, in my Wakatta book it explains the differences in speech between males and females (Such as females will tend to not use だ when speaking in plain form and instead sometimes use わ as a sentence ending particle.)

So if I was writing an essay in plain form, would I have to keep these things in mind, if I was signing off with a female name? (e.g. in a letter to a friend etc.)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sarangiya on August 13, 2015, 10:17:27 am
Thankyou for all the help everyone! :)

I was wondering, in my Wakatta book it explains the differences in speech between males and females (Such as females will tend to not use だ when speaking in plain form and instead sometimes use わ as a sentence ending particle.)

So if I was writing an essay in plain form, would I have to keep these things in mind, if I was signing off with a female name? (e.g. in a letter to a friend etc.)

Well I probably would assume you wouldn't write an essay in plain form. If it were a diary, then OK.
I think the thing to keep most in mind is consistency. You don't have to think "OK I'm a 15-year-old girl who likes pumpkin spice lattes".
BUT, if you at point write something like "どうするかな~?もういやなの!” then you need to continue that way of speaking throughout the diary. Another thing to note is that you do not need to sign off on a journal, so you don't even have to keep it in mind.
Contrasting that, if it were a letter/email/something to a friend you may consider writing in plain form - and those styles would call for a name at the end. But even so, unless you're really wanting to express a certain gender for some reason, you don't need to add gender-specific endings etc. If you're really pedantic, why not use a name like Alex or something?
My advice is to ditch the わ (it could be funny to say あたし、そんなお下品なことが好きじゃございませんわよ!but there's no reason to) or any other "gendered" language you might have come across and keep it neutral and ideally polite. If not, just make sure it's consistent ...あたしそんなお下品なことが好きじゃございませんわよ!けどおめえってまじでムカつくんだぜ。ぶっ殺すぞ。... XD
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on August 24, 2015, 02:41:27 pm
Thankyou so much sarangiya!

If I wanted to say  " I think it is approximately 400 Yen"

would I write:

1.) 四百円ぐらいと思います

or

2.) 四百円ぐらいと思います。

I'm not sure if I should put a 'だ' before the と思います?? (Since ぐらい is neither a noun or a descriptive noun)?

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on September 05, 2015, 01:52:09 pm
Is the general conversation section of the oral exam based of the prescribed topics, given in the study design? (Personal world, daily life, past and future, visiting Japan etc.)

Thankyou :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on September 05, 2015, 04:58:32 pm
Is the general conversation section of the oral exam based of the prescribed topics, given in the study design? (Personal world, daily life, past and future, visiting Japan etc.)

Thankyou :)

Sort of.

Most of them begin with a prescribed topic, then will go according to what you say. It's a conversation, hence the name. An example: (All of this is said in Japanese, of course, but I got lazy.)

Assessor: What do you study this year?
You: I study English, Maths, Biology and Chemistry, besides Japanese. I like these subjects because I want to study Science in university.
Assessor: Why are you interested in science?
You: I ask teachers lots of questions in Biology and I think the content is quite interesting. I would like to know more about the world and travel one day.
Assessor: Really? Have you travelled overseas?
You: Yes, I have. I went to Japan in the summer holidays, actually.

... and basically you get the idea. Just think of all the answers you've got down already and all the ways it could go - basically that's where it'll start to spin off and become your specific conversation.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on September 06, 2015, 03:15:52 pm
Thanks AngelWings!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on September 21, 2015, 07:17:11 pm
Is けど to informal to use in the oral exam? Should I stick to using  けれど or が?
Also, is it okay for the oral exam to have a plain form in the middle of the sentence but the ending of the sentence is still polite, (so thus the whole sentence is still polite) or is it better to have polite form throughout?

E.g

Which would be better:
(1). しずかですから好きじゃないです。
(2) しずかだから、好きじゃないです。

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on September 21, 2015, 09:26:54 pm
Also does anyone have any advice on how to make sentences more sophisticated? I feel like all of mine are very basic!

:) Thanks
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on September 30, 2015, 11:54:24 pm
Also does anyone have any advice on how to make sentences more sophisticated? I feel like all of mine are very basic!

:) Thanks

Well... that'll depend on context, of course. Some good ideas would be:

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Deshouka on October 01, 2015, 09:26:35 am
Is けど to informal to use in the oral exam? Should I stick to using  けれど or が?
Also, is it okay for the oral exam to have a plain form in the middle of the sentence but the ending of the sentence is still polite, (so thus the whole sentence is still polite) or is it better to have polite form throughout?

E.g

Which would be better:
(1). しずかですから好きじゃないです。
(2) しずかだから、好きじゃないです。

Thanks :)

Although I don't think they'll take off marks for just using けど, it's preferable to use が

For your second question, I think it's better to be polite throughout, although again, unless you're going to say おれ or 好きだぞ it really won't matter as long as you're well mannered.
Good luck for your oral exam btw!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: RazzMeTazz on October 10, 2015, 08:13:08 pm
Although I don't think they'll take off marks for just using けど, it's preferable to use が

For your second question, I think it's better to be polite throughout, although again, unless you're going to say おれ or 好きだぞ it really won't matter as long as you're well mannered.
Good luck for your oral exam btw!

Thankyou so much Deshouka for the help! :)

Thankyou, goodluck to you as well!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: sammiegan on November 12, 2015, 07:28:31 pm
In the exam if we use kanji that isn't in the VCE prescribed kanji list, do we need to include the furigana above it?
Because sometimes for certain kanji I'm not really  how to place the furigana.

For e.g. for the word 明後日 I'm not really sure where you would place the 'さって’ part?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: op4blushift on November 13, 2015, 10:43:35 pm
In the exam if we use kanji that isn't in the VCE prescribed kanji list, do we need to include the furigana above it?
Because sometimes for certain kanji I'm not really  how to place the furigana.

For e.g. for the word 明後日 I'm not really sure where you would place the 'さって’ part?

Thanks :)
Nope. The VCE assessors should know how to read much more than the prescribed list of kanji. You're wasting your time if you're doing that in the essay section, or anywhere else (Source: my teacher).

Just make sure that you're writing the kanji correctly.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: ST0123 on November 14, 2015, 02:55:00 pm
Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me whether we should include a topic/ subject for emails or not. My Japanese teacher crosses it out every time I write it in, but in the study design under features of an email there is topic. What does everyone else do?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 16, 2015, 10:10:17 pm
[My post got deleted it seems]

Anyway, I'm overseas at the moment but will be around for any VCE Japanese questions that 2016 students might have over the summer break.
I found a great article explaining differences between Ni and De: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2015/12/14/language/going-places-staying-put-particles-ni-de/#.Vm_ryGR953n

Good Luck 2016!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: xjiaa on May 02, 2016, 05:27:18 pm
Hello,

Just wondering if there are any advice on answering in Japanese, especially for listening? Although I can understand what is being said I have trouble noting key information down in time and answering in Japanese.

Thank you
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on May 02, 2016, 10:44:12 pm
Hello,

Just wondering if there are any advice on answering in Japanese, especially for listening? Although I can understand what is being said I have trouble noting key information down in time and answering in Japanese.

Thank you

Hi xjiaa,

That's quite a common issue SL students have.
I like taking notes in roomaji as I find that a lot quicker to note down key information than writing hiragana. But if you prefer hiragana that's okay too.
Try also just to note down the key vocab and point being said rather than copying the whole grammar pattern.
The first listening is the most important as well, you should do your best to note down as much as possible in the first listening.

If you're understanding the content, that's a great stage to be at, but also knowing a wide range of vocabulary is a great help too. Potentially, you might have instances where you know the vocabulary but you didn't recognise it while listening to it.
It's a good idea to watch some Japanese drama or news to get used to how the vocab you rote-learned sound when said and the context they are used in.

Hope those pointers help
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: xjiaa on May 04, 2016, 12:42:09 pm
Hi xjiaa,

That's quite a common issue SL students have.
I like taking notes in roomaji as I find that a lot quicker to note down key information than writing hiragana. But if you prefer hiragana that's okay too.
Try also just to note down the key vocab and point being said rather than copying the whole grammar pattern.
The first listening is the most important as well, you should do your best to note down as much as possible in the first listening.

If you're understanding the content, that's a great stage to be at, but also knowing a wide range of vocabulary is a great help too. Potentially, you might have instances where you know the vocabulary but you didn't recognise it while listening to it.
It's a good idea to watch some Japanese drama or news to get used to how the vocab you rote-learned sound when said and the context they are used in.

Hope those pointers help

Thank you!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: japanese on May 08, 2016, 09:52:52 pm
Hi everyone,

What is the email structure on Genkouyoushi?

Thanks!~
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Elizawei on June 19, 2016, 03:58:42 pm
Anyone know the newspaper article format?


Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on June 20, 2016, 12:41:11 pm
Anyone know the newspaper article format?

I'm not sure of the exact genkouyoushi format, but I'd write it in plain form as actual newspaper articles are written in plain form.

Keep it similar to a regular essay structure: Title (maybe in 「」 brackets), Name on second line, plain form writing, and usual Intro, Body, Conclusion.

Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Elizawei on June 20, 2016, 02:06:01 pm
I'm not sure of the exact genkouyoushi format, but I'd write it in plain form as actual newspaper articles are written in plain form.

Keep it similar to a regular essay structure: Title (maybe in 「」 brackets), Name on second line, plain form writing, and usual Intro, Body, Conclusion.

Thanks! I just stuck to polite form though, since my teacher advises us against writing in plain except for diary entries :P
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: japanese on July 15, 2016, 12:48:53 pm
Hi everyone,

What are possible questions that might be asked for お正月 (Japansse New Years) as a detailed study?

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: AngelWings on July 15, 2016, 06:25:23 pm
Hi everyone,

What are possible questions that might be asked for お正月 (Japanese New Years) as a detailed study?

Thank you :)

1. What it is.
2. When it is.
3. Why do they celebrate it?
4. How do they celebrate it and how did they originate?
5. Things they don't do.
6. How long it lasts and comparison against other countries (e.g. China).
7. Compare modern celebrations with ancient Japanese celebrations. (Especially with technology evolving, changes may have happened.)
8. How areas differ in celebrations. (Not a great point, but still...)
9. How foreign countries contribute to Ooshougatsu/ Different influences on Ooshougatsu.
10. Impact Ooshogatsu makes to the economy (e.g. does it affect tourism, because Japanese natives return to their country? Does it affect businesses because they're closed?)

That's 10 points just off the top of my head for you. :D Good luck. (Sorry it's not in Japanese, but I can't do all the hard work for you! ;) )
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 22, 2016, 07:36:46 pm
Hi class of 2017,

Feel free to ask me questions over the summer :)

All the best to everyone!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on May 15, 2017, 08:40:30 pm
I recommend all students struggling with particles read this article
https://8020japanese.com/japanese-sentence-structure/?utm_source=FB&utm_medium=Ads&utm_campaign=ssau229
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on August 29, 2017, 09:46:45 pm
I recommend this resource to all - https://animelon.com/

Turn off the English/roomaji and try watch some slice of life animes with Japanese subtitles. There's a dialogue tracker on the side which lets you look up words you don't know. Good way to learn new words and listen out for grammar patterns (Y)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Plebiscite122 on August 30, 2017, 10:59:58 pm
Hey mate,
What kind of marks in the exam would approximately give a study score of 40-45? Cheers.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on August 31, 2017, 11:21:13 am
Hey mate,
What kind of marks in the exam would approximately give a study score of 40-45? Cheers.

I'm not too sure, but I lost 4 marks overall for a 50 raw.

So perhaps for a 40-45 raw, you could lose around 8-10 marks? It really depends on how the cohort goes I would have thought.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Plebiscite122 on August 31, 2017, 02:34:25 pm
Ok thanks. So would that be 8-10 marks on both the written exam and oral exam or just one of them?
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on September 05, 2017, 04:51:57 pm
Ok thanks. So would that be 8-10 marks on both the written exam and oral exam or just one of them?

It was 4 marks off just for the written for me.

My 8-10 marks number is just a pure guess. 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: kimonokiwi on October 14, 2017, 01:27:15 pm
Hi,
My detailed study topic is ‘少子化’ or declining birth rate. What are some possible questions the assessor might ask?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on October 14, 2017, 09:00:49 pm
Hi,
My detailed study topic is ‘少子化’ or declining birth rate. What are some possible questions the assessor might ask?

Thanks :)

You've probably already got answers for these but: solutions to the  少子化 issue, what your opinions are on those solutions (ie: how effective you think they might be), comparison to Australia, should Japan follow things Australia are doing, what do you think Japan should do to combat the issue.
The tricky question might just follow on from things you just say in your answers.

Other general questions that pop up might be: what surprised you when you studied about 少子化? What did you find interesting doing the research? Why did you choose it? What source you used for X point?

Good luck
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: kiki. on October 15, 2017, 04:53:17 pm
Hi Jibba,
I'm wondering if you have any samples of your high quality writing pieces (for example, on letter, essay format ect)? If you're not willing to share them, that's okay :) Thanks for your time!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 26, 2017, 11:07:39 am
Hi Jibba,
I'm wondering if you have any samples of your high quality writing pieces (for example, on letter, essay format ect)? If you're not willing to share them, that's okay :) Thanks for your time!

Sorry for the late response. It's too late to be useful for yourself, but I'll think about it for the future!
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on November 26, 2017, 11:07:59 am
Here's a good article to read for class of 2018!

http://japaninsides.com/seven-mistakes-foreigners-make-speaking-japanese-fix/
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: Hiea on December 29, 2017, 03:20:22 pm
Hi!  ;D

I was just wondering: are the JLPT levels a good measure of how well you'll do in VCE? If so, what would each level more or less translate to as a study score? And what would be a good level to reach before taking the 3/4 exam?

And if they're not, why is that? 
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on December 29, 2017, 03:32:41 pm
Hi!  ;D

I was just wondering: are the JLPT levels a good measure of how well you'll do in VCE? If so, what would each level more or less translate to as a study score? And what would be a good level to reach before taking the 3/4 exam?

And if they're not, why is that? 

Hi Hiea

VCE Japanese has writing and speaking components which the JLPT doesn't, so it probably won't be the most accurate indicator of your VCE study score. JLPT has reading comprehension, listening and kanji/grammar components and all answers are multiple choice. I think its main advantage would be that you can improve your skills in those sections for VCE, but you'll still need to do other preparation for writing and speaking.

I think students who get a 40+ study score would be able to pass JLPT N4 (I think N4 is slightly beyond the VCE course however). Although, as kanji/listening/reading is the focus of JLPT, people lower and higher that the 40 mark could pass or fail. It's still good practice nonetheless, especially for listening and vocab building, if you're motivated enough, get stuck into the N4 practice problems.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: jibba on January 15, 2019, 07:40:47 pm
Thought I’d share a useful grammar resource that was brought to my attention recently.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/grammar_guide.pdf

Seems to contain all the VCE grammars plus a few more advanced ones beyond VCE (mainly in section 6 and the keigo in section 5.2)

Passive/Causative section at 5.1 and the はず/べき pattern at 6.2 worth learning for VCE purposes though.
Title: Re: Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students
Post by: anj_n on October 07, 2019, 09:10:33 pm
This might be a bit late but any people who recently finished 3 & 4 Japanese and did their orals? Mines in 3 days and the topic is bukatsu (clubs) so any help/tips are appreciated (e.g what kind of questions did they ask) even if they're not the same topic. Thank you!  :D