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March 29, 2024, 11:00:25 pm

Author Topic: COVID-19 and Education  (Read 84259 times)  Share 

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Stormbreaker-X

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #135 on: April 13, 2020, 12:13:20 am »
-1
The reasons may not be as obviously correct as you think. It might, in theory, make sense to have 'smarter' people becoming doctors or engineers but this is not true for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the ATAR isn't even necessarily the perfect measure of someone's 'smartness'. Indeed, probably a better predictor of ATAR success is how rich your parents are rather than your IQ. You say a low ATAR tells its own 'story' and shows 'lack of commitment' but this is often very far from the truth. Here's a quick generalised example. Student A: Attends 5 different tutors for each subject, goes to a private school, has all the time in the world to study and has a plethora of resources at his/her disposal. Student B: Goes to a low SES school, has not even heard of external tutoring, works two jobs including night shifts sometimes just to help feed his/her family and barely gets time to study (or even a quiet place to do so). I'll let you imagine the difference in their outcomes. Another factor is that the entry requirements for the courses you mentioned are very high. Leaving behind the ATAR measure, are we really saying that a 95 scorer isn't 'good enough' for such a course, unlike a 99 scorer? A few ATAR points?

Here's a fun study for you to read --> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329408770_Selection_and_lottery_in_medical_school_admissions_who_gains_and_who_loses

In short, it showed there is often very little or non-existent differences in the future performance of medical students picked through a stratified lottery system compared to an entry score based one. Meanwhile, there were massive gains in the diversity of the students in turn benefitting society as a whole.

ETA: Probably doesn't belong here. Feel free to move this conversation to appropriate thread mods!
Sorry I didn't mean that in a bad way, I am saying it is in everyones best interest to have the strongest students do the most important courses just because lives are in their hands. Yes, what you said is very true, I understand peoples scenarios and can understand why some may not do well. Also wealth does not equal to doing well believe me, I heard stories of smart people getting bad grades and terrible atars. Also 99 and 95 can still do medicine, nothing against this. A bad atar is around 50's/60's range not 90's or 80's. Also in the wake of the corona virus pandemic there is so much uncertainty for the future and the thought of going to school online is freaking me out.

Lear

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #136 on: April 13, 2020, 12:49:43 am »
+10
Sorry I didn't mean that in a bad way.

That’s completely fine! I know you didn’t mean in it in a bad way. I know I came across a bit stern but believe me, the views you express are not uncommon as they often do come from a good place. I can definitely understand the uncertainty and stress you’re facing too.

There was a point of time where I also considered the ATAR to be the gold standard measure and would have agreed with you regarding the ATAR requirements for certain courses. It’s important to always be critical of beliefs you might hold and be willing to open your mind to possibilities that may be against what you may think. Only that allowed someone like myself to be more understanding of factors such as privilege. We are all in a position to grow as people as long as we are open to it :)

Above all I think it’s important to be respectful and not use terms such as ‘bad’ to describe an ATAR. What might be low for you might be the dream scenario for another.


« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 12:52:17 am by Lear »
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Stormbreaker-X

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #137 on: April 15, 2020, 05:31:49 pm »
+2
This is the first lesson of online learning for me and it is disastrous. Heck I was planning on acing term 2 and so far things aren't going to plan. I lack a lot of self discipline and therefore I am already behind in school work AND IT IS THE FIRST DAY!!!! If things continue the way they are I think I am in for a bad year.

Stormbreaker-X

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #138 on: April 15, 2020, 05:32:07 pm »
0
That’s completely fine! I know you didn’t mean in it in a bad way. I know I came across a bit stern but believe me, the views you express are not uncommon as they often do come from a good place. I can definitely understand the uncertainty and stress you’re facing too.

There was a point of time where I also considered the ATAR to be the gold standard measure and would have agreed with you regarding the ATAR requirements for certain courses. It’s important to always be critical of beliefs you might hold and be willing to open your mind to possibilities that may be against what you may think. Only that allowed someone like myself to be more understanding of factors such as privilege. We are all in a position to grow as people as long as we are open to it :)

Above all I think it’s important to be respectful and not use terms such as ‘bad’ to describe an ATAR. What might be low for you might be the dream scenario for another.
Thank you for understanding  :)

J_Rho

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #139 on: April 15, 2020, 05:40:09 pm »
+1
This is the first lesson of online learning for me and it is disastrous. Heck I was planning on acing term 2 and so far things aren't going to plan. I lack a lot of self discipline and therefore I am already behind in school work AND IT IS THE FIRST DAY!!!! If things continue the way they are I think I am in for a bad year.

I really feel this, and it still feels like holidays so its really hard to get back in to the swing of things! It's so easy to not get anything done 😩
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vox nihili

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #140 on: April 15, 2020, 07:00:04 pm »
+7
The reasons may not be as obviously correct as you think. It might, in theory, make sense to have 'smarter' people becoming doctors or engineers but this is not true for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the ATAR isn't even necessarily the perfect measure of someone's 'smartness'. Indeed, probably a better predictor of ATAR success is how rich your parents are rather than your IQ. You say a low ATAR tells its own 'story' and shows 'lack of commitment' but this is often very far from the truth. Here's a quick generalised example. Student A: Attends 5 different tutors for each subject, goes to a private school, has all the time in the world to study and has a plethora of resources at his/her disposal. Student B: Goes to a low SES school, has not even heard of external tutoring, works two jobs including night shifts sometimes just to help feed his/her family and barely gets time to study (or even a quiet place to do so). I'll let you imagine the difference in their outcomes. Another factor is that the entry requirements for the courses you mentioned are very high. Leaving behind the ATAR measure, are we really saying that a 95 scorer isn't 'good enough' for such a course, unlike a 99 scorer? A few ATAR points?

Here's a fun study for you to read --> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329408770_Selection_and_lottery_in_medical_school_admissions_who_gains_and_who_loses

In short, it showed there is often very little or non-existent differences in the future performance of medical students picked through a stratified lottery system compared to an entry score based one. Meanwhile, there were massive gains in the diversity of the students in turn benefitting society as a whole.

ETA: Probably doesn't belong here. Feel free to move this conversation to appropriate thread mods!

 





Very late to this conversation, but just want to ++++1 this. Plenty of research that underlines this (incl the article shared already of course):

This article looks specifically at medical admissions and the influence of SES and gender. It found that female gender and low SES saw students underrepresented, but that students from these backgrounds did not under perform their counterparts. Major weakness was that it focused on one medical school and on the UMAT, which has since changed.

This article looks at the relationship between SES and ENTER scores (ATAR replaced them in 2011). It finds a relationship, but again that students who are disadvantaged are not actually less talented. This one essentially found the same, but also found that disadvantaged students are no less likely to go to uni than their advantaged counterparts given the same ENTER scores.

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TheEagle

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #141 on: April 18, 2020, 09:00:23 pm »
0
What do y'all think VCAA will say in their statement on monday?

J_Rho

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #142 on: April 18, 2020, 09:02:22 pm »
+2
What do y'all think VCAA will say in their statement on monday?
reiterate what they have already said, maybe something out releasing an exam calendar in the next month
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brothanathan

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #143 on: April 20, 2020, 09:41:47 pm »
0
reiterate what they have already said, maybe something out releasing an exam calendar in the next month

Ironically, this may even happen. Maybe even June. According to ludicrous rumours (which you can take with a grain of salt of course), online assessments aren't cutting it for the VCAA.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 09:47:37 pm by brothanathan »

Stormbreaker-X

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #144 on: April 21, 2020, 02:45:35 pm »
0
Guys may I ask how are you communicating with your teachers? I feel I am not learning anything  :(
Our school uses something called Microsoft teams and so far I do not think it is working for me.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 02:48:18 pm by Stormbreaker-X »

J_Rho

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #145 on: April 21, 2020, 02:52:32 pm »
0
Guys may I ask how are you communicating with your teachers? I feel I am not learning anything  :(
Our school uses something called Microsoft teams and so far I do not think it is working for me.
I wish my school was using Teams it a pretty good platform, im communicating w/ my teachers via email or hangouts (text) which is working really well and tagging teachers in comments on google docs if i need help with an essay or an assignment and they can comment back with feedback/explanation.
I use Teams for VicSRC and it works well, every new topic is a new post and you the chat works well too
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Stormbreaker-X

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #146 on: April 21, 2020, 04:07:33 pm »
0
I wish my school was using Teams it a pretty good platform, im communicating w/ my teachers via email or hangouts (text) which is working really well and tagging teachers in comments on google docs if i need help with an essay or an assignment and they can comment back with feedback/explanation.
I use Teams for VicSRC and it works well, every new topic is a new post and you the chat works well too
Thanks for the response.

lm21074

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2020, 11:05:51 pm »
0
I've noticed that some schools are still doing graded SACs this term for Unit 3 subjects. Is it just my school that isn't?

« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 12:49:39 am by lm21074 »
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whys

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #148 on: May 05, 2020, 07:24:31 am »
+3
I've noticed that some schools are still doing graded SACs this term for Unit 3 subjects. Is it just my school that isn't?

My school is, and many other schools are. I've heard of some schools deciding not to do graded unit 3 SACs from ATARNotes. There are advantages/disadvantages to both sides. For us, we have technological difficulties, need to keep up study during isolation, etc. Those who aren't completing SACs right now will probably have to do a handful of SACs spaced very closely to each other as soon as they get back to school. Neither situation is ideal, but each school has autonomy over these decisions since VCAA has not prescribed any restrictions regarding this (yet another fault... this is something that should have been addressed a while ago if they truly wished to minimise the gap between under-resources schools and resourced schools) so schools can, in essence, do whatever they want.
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brothanathan

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #149 on: May 05, 2020, 09:02:22 am »
+2
I've noticed that some schools are still doing graded SACs this term for Unit 3 subjects. Is it just my school that isn't?

I potentially have to redo SACs done online this term in a school setting for authentication purposes. Meaning I have to do two variations of SACs to satisfy Outcomes.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 09:34:05 am by brothanathan »