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March 28, 2024, 09:23:23 pm

Author Topic: COVID-19 and Education  (Read 84101 times)  Share 

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Poet

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #285 on: August 10, 2020, 01:43:15 pm »
+20
And that final line? Look, I mean no offence - but you sound like a toddler that just discovered pot. Potentially you can be less vague and more constructive in conversation? What are we "really" as a society?
Dude, you can't just put "no offence" in front of an insult and expect it to be unoffensive. Let's keep the conversation respectful on all sides, please. :)

To translate my point a little: How VCE has ended up being for Year 12 this year is similar to how things are in the 'real world', if students have yet experienced or grasped how it really is or what it truly represents.
This pandemic and the way it has affected our society is unprecedented. Nobody alive today has been through anything like this; not just in reference to a full global pandemic, but one in the midst of rapid technological and scientific advancement. To say that Year 12 students this year are experiencing the "real world" is true in some sense; but it's also a fallacy. Year 12 is a period of transition, and at the moment, that movement - along with the rest of the world's progression - is being wildly interrupted. There's no VCE student this year that isn't fully aware of the impact this virus has had on our lives. Year 12 is part of the "real world". The struggles you're facing in education and the decision to cut exams are real. But it's not normal, and certainly not an experience that any of us graduates had to deal with. Our "real world" was very, very different to yours, and by no one's fault. No government, no society, no conspiracy. Just an extremely transmittable virus.

I don't like the idea but I kind of agree. Myself, I can't even remember a lot of my year 11 results... so I don't know, if they use that, if that's good or not. I guess if the worst comes to the worst we can all rely on the GAT, if it happens?
It's an unfortunate place to be in and I really, really feel for you guys. Standardised tests are a flawed tool useful only to those more academically-minded whilst ignoring those with more practical skills and understanding, but they're what people are used to - even if they can't be judged as an accurate representation of a student's abilities this year. Basing grades on Year 11 results is also an awful idea, considering the huge variation in attitudes and zero consideration for how students have changed this year. It's a rock and a hard place.
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keltingmeith

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #286 on: August 10, 2020, 02:11:43 pm »
+9
Dude, you can't just put "no offence" in front of an insult and expect it to be unoffensive. Let's keep the conversation respectful on all sides, please. :)

I mean, noted - but I did mean it in that I legitimately don't mean or intend offence. Apologies to all involved

whys

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #287 on: August 10, 2020, 02:19:52 pm »
+8
Interesting argument since research suggests that standardised tests are a poor method for testing a person's ability
The VCE/ATAR system of having standardised exams will not change for a long while, despite it being flawed. I'm not saying standardised tests are the best way to go but it has, for as long as I know, always been this way. It will continue to be this way. To clarify what I meant - I'm saying that our scheduled end of year exams are the best way forward to ensure that our study scores turn out somewhat fair/comparable. Resorting to only SAC scores and the GAT/year 11 results will be disastrous for many. They can't just abolish the system three quarters into the year and say 'scrap exams, we're going to do X instead' because standardised tests are inherently flawed.
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keltingmeith

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #288 on: August 10, 2020, 02:30:26 pm »
+1
The VCE/ATAR system of having standardised exams will not change for a long while, despite it being flawed. I'm not saying standardised tests are the best way to go but it has, for as long as I know, always been this way. It will continue to be this way. To clarify what I meant - I'm saying that our scheduled end of year exams are the best way forward to ensure that our study scores turn out somewhat fair/comparable. Resorting to only SAC scores and the GAT/year 11 results will be disastrous for many. They can't just abolish the system three quarters into the year and say 'scrap exams, we're going to do X instead' because standardised tests are inherently flawed.

Yeah, fair. Granted, at this point it's still hypothetical, and I doubt the Government is the type to make a move as controversial as removing exams in the current state of things

brothanathan

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #289 on: August 10, 2020, 06:22:23 pm »
+4
And that final line? Look, I mean no offence - but you sound like a toddler that just discovered pot. Potentially you can be less vague and more constructive in conversation? What are we "really" as a society?

Well am I trying to discriminate anyone? I appreciate your honesty (and I affirm that putting 'no offence' does signify this honesty) and I will still be vague sadly, since if I weren't I would probably disturb some (yes still being vague here). I'm judging you? No (pretty clear I am not judging any specific person if you look back on it). I don't want to be mean, but it seems that you're the only one that's making judgements on the individual, and I feel you shouldn't let this fire of yours damage you also. To summarise, just take my lines with a grain of salt.

Our "real world" was very, very different to yours, and by no one's fault. No government, no society, no conspiracy. Just an extremely transmittable virus.

Me being vague and taking this too off centre doesn't help. Re-evaluating what I initially posted, I guess my comments were beyond the conversation and also beyond just about the virus or these conspiracy assertions. But I will still say that my perception of this world can be understated as 'corruption'. Corruption not only in our current times, but centuries ago, many forms and types of dilemmas we have failed to solve. We can't change history, we can change how we operate. But it's hard to change how we operate when most aren't able to face what's at heart and recognise that they're in a sense repeating history in terms of the motives of those before us but with a different goal in mind (like they ever cared, all they care is to satisfy their 'unhealthy' needs). Putting a band-aid on things won't solve anything. Redefining things won't solve anything, if there's no consistent definition. A definition that is shared by all, a definition that those with certain motives won't find loopholes. This definition is impossible to be achieved atm in our 'real' world. What I'm discussing is definitely off topic, vague, and I'll leave it there.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 09:53:45 pm by brothanathan »

keltingmeith

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #290 on: August 11, 2020, 08:26:33 am »
+4
Well am I trying to discriminate anyone? I appreciate your honesty (and I affirm that putting 'no offence' does signify this honesty) and I will still be vague sadly, since if I weren't I would probably disturb some (yes still being vague here). I'm judging you? No (pretty clear I am not judging any specific person if you look back on it). I don't want to be mean, but it seems that you're the only one that's making judgements on the individual, and I feel you shouldn't let this fire of yours damage you also. To summarise, just take my lines with a grain of salt.

Sorry - I didn't mean to imply you were being discriminatory OR judging of others, meant more that you should feel open to discussion without fear of either of those things happening. Hell, you're being so vague about everything I think it's basically impossible to even feel judged by you atm 😂 Was just hoping to get your actual thoughts on the table so we could have a discussion

whys

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #291 on: August 11, 2020, 09:15:35 am »
+4
Our education minister has just said that not only will our ATARs be moderated, but also our study scores. They've created a new category of educational disadvantage that is supposed to take everything into consideration and 'level the playing field', and the GAT will be used to help determine our level of achievement and will play a part in this moderation. How does everyone feel about this?
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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #292 on: August 11, 2020, 09:43:11 am »
+6
Our education minister has just said that not only will our ATARs be moderated, but also our study scores. They've created a new category of educational disadvantage that is supposed to take everything into consideration and 'level the playing field', and the GAT will be used to help determine our level of achievement and will play a part in this moderation. How does everyone feel about this?

Interesting that they're going to moderate both study scores and ATARs - and I definitely feel that less is more in this situation, considering modifying study scores will modify ATARs as a direct consequence. Don't think they should be touching the ATARs as well

However, using the GAT is IMHO a good idea - this is what the GAT was always designed for, so it's not like anything has changed that much. Plus I feel they've given it enough time for people to realise that the GAT should be taken seriously

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #293 on: August 11, 2020, 09:43:55 am »
+10
Our education minister has just said that not only will our ATARs be moderated, but also our study scores. They've created a new category of educational disadvantage that is supposed to take everything into consideration and 'level the playing field', and the GAT will be used to help determine our level of achievement and will play a part in this moderation. How does everyone feel about this?
if it levels the playing field why haven't they done it before? I feel like a lot of the changes assume that VCE before the pandemic was a level playing field.

I haven't seen the press conference or statements so gonna have to look into the details before I comment properly.

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #294 on: August 11, 2020, 09:52:37 am »
+1
Our education minister has just said that not only will our ATARs be moderated, but also our study scores. They've created a new category of educational disadvantage that is supposed to take everything into consideration and 'level the playing field', and the GAT will be used to help determine our level of achievement and will play a part in this moderation. How does everyone feel about this?
We simply don't have enough information yet; just so long as I get the marks I need (and would expect to be able to get) and it ends up pretty fair, I don't mind how they do it. Yes, using the GAT is a good idea, I  think. When did this information come out/where?
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brothanathan

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #295 on: August 11, 2020, 10:21:02 am »
0
Sorry - I didn't mean to imply you were being discriminatory OR judging of others, meant more that you should feel open to discussion without fear of either of those things happening. Hell, you're being so vague about everything I think it's basically impossible to even feel judged by you atm 😂 Was just hoping to get your actual thoughts on the table so we could have a discussion

Well here's another reference (technically still relevant since you're referring to my comments from yesterday):

think we can all have an open discussion about these things without judging each other?

Two, am I fearing anything? 😪 I'm still going to stick to my position, and it's very clear that I'm open to anyone's criticism. My actual thoughts? Probably not on here thank you. End of discussion 🙂

Also, me being vague. Maybe 0.1% can dissect what I'm linking to. Since this is considered as undesirable, and I don't think an open discussion is exactly possible on here, I'll stop.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 10:31:05 am by brothanathan »

whys

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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #296 on: August 11, 2020, 10:34:01 am »
+10
We simply don't have enough information yet; just so long as I get the marks I need (and would expect to be able to get) and it ends up pretty fair, I don't mind how they do it. Yes, using the GAT is a good idea, I  think. When did this information come out/where?
It was sent to schools and directed towards year 12 students. There was also a video with James Merlino talking about it, also sent to schools.
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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #297 on: August 11, 2020, 01:13:01 pm »
+5
On the VCAA website they've said that they will use these to give us our study score/ATAR:
"the ranked order of students prior to and following the impact of coronavirus (COVID-19)
a student’s indicative grades prior to and following the impact of coronavirus (COVID-19)
school assessments completed prior to remote and flexible learning
the General Achievement Test (GAT)
a range of statistical analyses used to calculate final results."
So if you've had a decrease in performance following impact of corona but you were in the top 10 ranks prior to corona they'll give you the special consideration right?
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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #298 on: August 17, 2020, 06:03:43 pm »
+1
How's everyone feeling about the new VCE Unit 4 SAC protocols? :)
More info here.

Edit: See clarifying post below.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 06:33:35 pm by lm21074 »
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Re: COVID-19 and Education
« Reply #299 on: August 17, 2020, 06:10:35 pm »
0
How's everyone feeling about the new VCE Unit 4 SAC protocols? :)
More info here.
What do you mean? I don't see any 'new VCE Unit 4 SAC protocols'...? Although I may have misunderstood something.
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