ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE Science => VCE Mathematics/Science/Technology => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Psychology => Topic started by: laijiawen on October 31, 2010, 05:05:13 pm
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If VCAA do ask this question in the exam, what would you choose?
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I belive it's variable interval, but i'd choose variable ratio because I can justify it with the gambling example :). I want to be safe
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How do you justify with gambling example?
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gamblers have a very difficult time quitting, they're addicted to it. the example of fishing to me doesn't seem so strong, as I went fishing once and it was boring and i'll never go again. but, people can easily choose to stop fishing once they've started, gambling however is not so easily extinguished
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Okay thanks
gamblers have a very difficult time quitting, they're addicted to it. the example of fishing to me doesn't seem so strong, as I went fishing once and it was boring and i'll never go again. but, people can easily choose to stop fishing once they've started, gambling however is not so easily extinguished
Okay, thanks.
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Okay thanksgamblers have a very difficult time quitting, they're addicted to it. the example of fishing to me doesn't seem so strong, as I went fishing once and it was boring and i'll never go again. but, people can easily choose to stop fishing once they've started, gambling however is not so easily extinguished
Okay, thanks.
yeah in regards to the gambling, they continue to play due to the uncertainty, of how many times they need to play in order to win.
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isnt gambler thing variable ratio??
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isnt gambler thing variable ratio??
yup it is
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isnt gambler thing variable ratio??
yeah, initially I thought believed that variable interval was the most difficult to extinguish, as it makes the most sense to me..
but my teacher researched it quite thoroughly and most if not all of her resources seemed to agree with variable ratio.
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I thought it was interval. Think of pressing the button when wanting to cross at the lights.
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isnt gambler thing variable ratio??
yeah, initially I thought believed that variable interval was the most difficult to extinguish, as it makes the most sense to me..
but my teacher researched it quite thoroughly and most if not all of her resources seemed to agree with variable ratio.
My teacher said it is "definitely variable interval". And I was telling her about a few places where I read Variable ratio was and she said they must be wrong.. So I dunno. It's tricky. I think there would be an uproar if VCAA put it on this years paper.
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isnt gambler thing variable ratio??
yeah, initially I thought believed that variable interval was the most difficult to extinguish, as it makes the most sense to me..
but my teacher researched it quite thoroughly and most if not all of her resources seemed to agree with variable ratio.
My teacher said it is "definitely variable interval". And I was telling her about a few places where I read Variable ratio was and she said they must be wrong.. So I dunno. It's tricky. I think there would be an uproar if VCAA put it on this years paper.
hmmmm....
hmmmmm....
hmmmmmmmmm...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..
okay, my contemplations have concluded and I have deduced, that I have no clue which is more resistant....
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The shitty thing is that Psychology at university is now pretty much using the cognitive paradigm, not behavioural. That sort of means that I don't have any textbooks that could really explain it in detail.
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the gambling example is variable ratio because the button doesnt push itself and the button must be pushed, someone must be sitting on the machine for the jackpot to go off.
variable interval takes the longest to acquire and is the hardest to extinguish. IIRC.
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Just to throw a little more confusion into the debate, I'm pretty sure gaming machines have a variable interval schedule sometimes, as well as a variable ratio one. Read that on some handouts we got.
Like, you have to perform the behaviour, but sometimes it won't pay out for a randomly determined period of time?
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This was asked in VCAA 2005 exam (saw it in another thread). What was the answer VCAA gave?
My internet is currently too dead to download pdfs and I have no idea where my checkpoints are hiding.
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Variable Ratio.
Question was:
Question 35
In Skinner’s original experiments, behaviour that had been conditioned by which type of schedule was found
to be the most difficult to extinguish?
A. variable schedule
B. fixed schedule
C. continuous reinforcement schedule
D. punishment schedule
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Variable Ratio.
Question was:
Question 35
In Skinner’s original experiments, behaviour that had been conditioned by which type of schedule was found
to be the most difficult to extinguish?
A. variable schedule
B. fixed schedule
C. continuous reinforcement schedule
D. punishment schedule
the answer was variable schedule...
they did not differentiate between ratio and interval, and I don't think they will.
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There was this confusion in my class last year, but it as agreed to be variable interval. But apparently they wont ever ask this specifically, only differentiate between varible and fixed, or interval and ratio for things.
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hey vexx what exam/SAC score did u get to get 44?
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hey vexx what exam/SAC score did u get to get 44?
two low-mid A+s (closer to mid), and pretty high ranked in an above average cohort.
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haha i have some chance of getting above 40 then!! :)
cant believe u got 44 from low/mid A+...
thanks
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Variable Ratio.
Question was:
Question 35
In Skinner’s original experiments, behaviour that had been conditioned by which type of schedule was found
to be the most difficult to extinguish?
A. variable schedule
B. fixed schedule
C. continuous reinforcement schedule
D. punishment schedule
the answer was variable schedule...
they did not differentiate between ratio and interval, and I don't think they will.
I was saying if the question came up, I'd go ratio.
That being said, I've never seen them ask. If they have 'ratio' in a MC, it would be without interval as another option.
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haha i have some chance of getting above 40 then!! :)
cant believe u got 44 from low/mid A+...
thanks
yeah i know, my sac ranking did help.. it was probably on average of my two exams quite close to being a mid A+, but just below.. only a couple more marks would have got me 45.
so goodluckk, you can get 40+ if you just get over that low A+ line (averaging over both exams)
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Variable Ratio.
Question was:
Question 35
In Skinner’s original experiments, behaviour that had been conditioned by which type of schedule was found
to be the most difficult to extinguish?
A. variable schedule
B. fixed schedule
C. continuous reinforcement schedule
D. punishment schedule
the answer was variable schedule...
they did not differentiate between ratio and interval, and I don't think they will.
I was saying if the question came up, I'd go ratio.
That being said, I've never seen them ask. If they have 'ratio' in a MC, it would be without interval as another option.
agreed.
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There was this confusion in my class last year, but it as agreed to be variable interval. But apparently they wont ever ask this specifically, only differentiate between varible and fixed, or interval and ratio for things.
Grivas only really talks about the separation between fixed and variable schedules of reinforcement and nothing more specific.
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haha i have some chance of getting above 40 then!! :)
cant believe u got 44 from low/mid A+...
thanks
yeah i know, my sac ranking did help.. it was probably on average of my two exams quite close to being a mid A+, but just below.. only a couple more marks would have got me 45.
so goodluckk, you can get 40+ if you just get over that low A+ line (averaging over both exams)
[offtopic]Hey vexx, can I ask what each of your exam marks were? If that's okay? Thanks.[/offtopic]
Back on topic, the only other thing we need to know is continuous is the easiest to extinguish.
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Just to throw a little more confusion into the debate, I'm pretty sure gaming machines have a variable interval schedule sometimes, as well as a variable ratio one. Read that on some handouts we got.
it might, but that seems a little unlikely. can you imagine a slot machine that pays out when no ones even playing it?
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Just to throw a little more confusion into the debate, I'm pretty sure gaming machines have a variable interval schedule sometimes, as well as a variable ratio one. Read that on some handouts we got.
it might, but that seems a little unlikely. can you imagine a slot machine that pays out when no ones even playing it?
Haha. As in variable interval while the machine is active. However, it IS variable ratio as the payout can ONLY be after a response, not in between responses if that makes sense?
For example the skinner box as variable interval could give a pellet 2 mins after a response as well as immediately after depending on chance. But for gaming machines, it is immediately following a response.
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I'm gonna go with variable ratio. I asked my teacher again (who got 49 in psych when she did it) on which partial schedule of reinforcement is most resistant to extinction, and she said variable ratio rather than variable interval. I doubt this question will come up in the exam though :)
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Thank you Bomb :P
It's like with fishing. You have to wait, but you've gotta have your line in the water to catch a fish :P
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Thank you Bomb :P
It's like with fishing. You have to wait, but you've gotta have your line in the water to catch a fish :P
Haha unless some fish jumps up out of the water onto land and bites onto your hook :S
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TSSM 2008
Question 30.
Which schedule of reinforcement results in the slowest extinction of the learned behaviour?
A. fixed ratio
B. variable ratio
C. variable interval
D. fixed interval
Answer:C
Variable interval is the slowest schedule of reinforcement to lead to extinction. An example of
this schedule is that of poker machines. Since reinforcement cannot be predicted, and is based on
time, cessation of responding will be gradual.
SO MUCH FOR PEOPLE CLAIMING THEY CAN USE GAMBLING AS AN EXAMPLE FOR VARIABLE RATIO.
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TSSM 2008
Question 30.
Which schedule of reinforcement results in the slowest extinction of the learned behaviour?
A. fixed ratio
B. variable ratio
C. variable interval
D. fixed interval
Answer:C
Variable interval is the slowest schedule of reinforcement to lead to extinction. An example of
this schedule is that of poker machines. Since reinforcement cannot be predicted, and is based on
time, cessation of responding will be gradual.
SO MUCH FOR PEOPLE CLAIMING THEY CAN USE GAMBLING AS AN EXAMPLE FOR VARIABLE RATIO.
this doesn't prove that poker machines are based on variable interval though, it's just what the tssm people said.
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TSSM 2008
Question 30.
Which schedule of reinforcement results in the slowest extinction of the learned behaviour?
A. fixed ratio
B. variable ratio
C. variable interval
D. fixed interval
Answer:C
Variable interval is the slowest schedule of reinforcement to lead to extinction. An example of
this schedule is that of poker machines. Since reinforcement cannot be predicted, and is based on
time, cessation of responding will be gradual.
SO MUCH FOR PEOPLE CLAIMING THEY CAN USE GAMBLING AS AN EXAMPLE FOR VARIABLE RATIO.
this doesn't prove that poker machines are based on variable interval though, it's just what the tssm people said.
lol...i've seen plenty more exams saying it variable ratio... ones much more credible than tssm
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TSSM 2008
Question 30.
Which schedule of reinforcement results in the slowest extinction of the learned behaviour?
A. fixed ratio
B. variable ratio
C. variable interval
D. fixed interval
Answer:C
Variable interval is the slowest schedule of reinforcement to lead to extinction. An example of
this schedule is that of poker machines. Since reinforcement cannot be predicted, and is based on
time, cessation of responding will be gradual.
SO MUCH FOR PEOPLE CLAIMING THEY CAN USE GAMBLING AS AN EXAMPLE FOR VARIABLE RATIO.
this doesn't prove that poker machines are based on variable interval though, it's just what the tssm people said.
lol...i've seen plenty more exams saying it variable ratio... ones much more credible than tssm
I agree with TSSM being a joke after doing their 2008 paper, however when I asked my teacher, she said she was 100% sure it's variable interval...
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laijawen...
you need to overcome this obsession/fixation on which schedule of reinforcement is hardest to extinguish... (possibly thru systematic desensitization?? :P)
focus on other more important aspects of psychology because the truth is, it wont get asked... especially as it isnt in any textbooks..
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TSSM 2008
Question 30.
Which schedule of reinforcement results in the slowest extinction of the learned behaviour?
A. fixed ratio
B. variable ratio
C. variable interval
D. fixed interval
Answer:C
Variable interval is the slowest schedule of reinforcement to lead to extinction. An example of
this schedule is that of poker machines. Since reinforcement cannot be predicted, and is based on
time, cessation of responding will be gradual.
SO MUCH FOR PEOPLE CLAIMING THEY CAN USE GAMBLING AS AN EXAMPLE FOR VARIABLE RATIO.
this doesn't prove that poker machines are based on variable interval though, it's just what the tssm people said.
lol...i've seen plenty more exams saying it variable ratio... ones much more credible than tssm
I agree with TSSM being a joke after doing their 2008 paper, however when I asked my teacher, she said she was 100% sure it's variable interval...
hahahaha... there are the teachers that are 100% sure that it is variable interval
then there are those that are 100% sure it's variable ratio..
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I better get karma for this haha. I went through all the effort of contacting the "chief assessor" for psych - Roger Edwards. And asked him what would be accepted out of the following: "Which schedule of reinforcement is most difficult to extinguish?"
> A) Variable Interval
> B) Variable Ratio
> C) Fixed Interval
> D) Fixed Ratio
He replied with "They would have to allow a and b!"
So there. It's settled once and for all.
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wow u hav his number?
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wow u hav his number?
Nope. Email. Me and my friend begged him for it after the pathways lecture.
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wow u hav his number?
Nope. Email. Me and my friend begged him for it after the pathways lecture.
you should ask him about the order of the stimulus and response in operant conditioning ;)
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wow u hav his number?
Nope. Email. Me and my friend begged him for it after the pathways lecture.
you should ask him about the order of the stimulus and response in operant conditioning ;)
Haha. Nar I'm 100% sure on that one. Even my teacher whose been an assessor for 15 years said it was right. And she has never been wrong before. Don't wanna bug him or waste his time haha. Trust me it's definitely right. I would basically bet all my money on it.
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I better get karma for this haha. I went through all the effort of contacting the "chief assessor" for psych - Roger Edwards. And asked him what would be accepted out of the following: "Which schedule of reinforcement is most difficult to extinguish?"
> A) Variable Interval
> B) Variable Ratio
> C) Fixed Interval
> D) Fixed Ratio
He replied with "They would have to allow a and b!"
So there. It's settled once and for all.
thanks
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Which is the EASIEST to extinguish?
Surely it's the exact opposite of this schedule.
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wow u hav his number?
Nope. Email. Me and my friend begged him for it after the pathways lecture.
you should ask him about the order of the stimulus and response in operant conditioning ;)
Haha. Nar I'm 100% sure on that one. Even my teacher whose been an assessor for 15 years said it was right. And she has never been wrong before. Don't wanna bug him or waste his time haha. Trust me it's definitely right. I would basically bet all my money on it.
yeah, but I meant so that we can sway the people who disagree.
but good point, he probably is very busy atm.
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wow u hav his number?
Nope. Email. Me and my friend begged him for it after the pathways lecture.
you should ask him about the order of the stimulus and response in operant conditioning ;)
Haha. Nar I'm 100% sure on that one. Even my teacher whose been an assessor for 15 years said it was right. And she has never been wrong before. Don't wanna bug him or waste his time haha. Trust me it's definitely right. I would basically bet all my money on it.
yeah, but I meant so that we can sway the people who disagree.
but good point, he probably is very busy atm.
Haha. They can think the wrong way if they want. More marks for the people who choose to take on board other people's information :)
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Which is the EASIEST to extinguish?
Surely it's the exact opposite of this schedule.
yeah
think its fixed ratio.
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Which is the EASIEST to extinguish?
Surely it's the exact opposite of this schedule.
yeah
think its fixed ratio.
Then it can only make sense for the exact opposite of this to be that HARDEST to extinguish.
Which is, Variable Interval.
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Which is the EASIEST to extinguish?
Surely it's the exact opposite of this schedule.
yeah
think its fixed ratio.
Then it can only make sense for the exact opposite of this to be that HARDEST to extinguish.
Which is, Variable Interval.
At the end of the day it would cause too much controversy if they didn't allow both because there's so much debate on it. So obviously they have to just allow both. That's the way the chief assessor is looking at it so just follow that, he's the one who writes all the answers anyway so we're fine.
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Which is the EASIEST to extinguish?
Surely it's the exact opposite of this schedule.
yeah
think its fixed ratio.
Then it can only make sense for the exact opposite of this to be that HARDEST to extinguish.
Which is, Variable Interval.
At the end of the day it would cause too much controversy if they didn't allow both because there's so much debate on it. So obviously they have to just allow both. That's the way the chief assessor is looking at it so just follow that, he's the one who writes all the answers anyway so we're fine.
Yeah, for sure.
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So...if they accept both, which would you put? :p
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So...if they accept both, which would you put? :p
Doesn't really matter. I'm going with variable interval anyway.
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Which is the EASIEST to extinguish?
Surely it's the exact opposite of this schedule.
technically the easiest to extinguish is continuous. the exact opposite of continuous is partial. and ergo you're back in the same boat. (I know you're talking about partial schedules, but being annoying is fun :) )
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Guys! I have it figured out.
The easiest schedule to extinguish, is..
NO SCHEDULE
My justification being, if there is ONE and only ONE reinforcement given in the first place(thus no repeated reinforcement for behaviour), it will be incredibly easy to extinguish!
SUCK ON THAT, VCAA!
/ludicrous suggestions
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Guys! I have it figured out.
The easiest schedule to extinguish, is..
NO SCHEDULE
My justification being, if there is ONE and only ONE reinforcement given in the first place(thus no repeated reinforcement for behaviour), it will be incredibly easy to extinguish!
SUCK ON THAT, VCAA!
/ludicrous suggestions
but the behaviour usually isn't learned with one reinforcement.
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don't know if this helps but found on a trial exam variable interval has the slowest acquisition.
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don't know if this helps but found on a trial exam variable interval has the slowest acquisition.
Which one?
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Guys! I have it figured out.
The easiest schedule to extinguish, is..
NO SCHEDULE
My justification being, if there is ONE and only ONE reinforcement given in the first place(thus no repeated reinforcement for behaviour), it will be incredibly easy to extinguish!
SUCK ON THAT, VCAA!
/ludicrous suggestions
but the behaviour usually isn't learned with one reinforcement.
usually doesn't mean ALWAYS.
it's possible.