IS THIS RIGHT? I THINK ITS WRONG?

[sillysmile]

I have to admit that it was originally confusing for me too.

[matt123]

if anyone here can justify why a response would occur in operant conditioning without a stimulus (nothing to prompt it) but the response cannot occur in classical conditioning without something to prompt it... no one see a flaw in this?

technically the prompt is another stimulus haha, but they call that the antecedent

Yep that basically sums it up. Does that solve it?

Sorry I don't mean to be stubborn I'm just doing whatever I can to convince you.

Agreed.
Spread knows more than us .. well me anyhow , in many aspects of this course i believe.

However... not that im trying to convince you.
But considering my teacher is previous uni teacher/vce examier
and i have seen this in many exams and even in the "Notes" book at school.
I hope that you can understand this concept ... it might just come up on the exam . infact im pretty positive it will.

as sillysmile said earlier ... the STIMULUS you are referring to is the antecedent.

But we say , in Operant conditioning , the stimulus = THE REINFORCER.

[Spreadbury]

if anyone here can justify why a response would occur in operant conditioning without a stimulus (nothing to prompt it) but the response cannot occur in classical conditioning without something to prompt it... no one see a flaw in this?

technically the prompt is another stimulus haha, but they call that the antecedent

Yep that basically sums it up. Does that solve it?

Sorry I don't mean to be stubborn I'm just doing whatever I can to convince you.

never heard of an antecedent, and I have no idea what sillysmile was saying. I am however adamant that operant conditioning requires a stimulus to elicit the behaviour that will be reinforced. find one study from your textbook that doesn't.

also, can someone define an antecedent? no mention of it in my textbook in the slightest

[jinny1]

WTFFFF!!! WTH IS GOING ONNNN!!??

i am not following this at all...

what is the stimulus in OC? and what is the reinforcement in CC??

[matt123]

if anyone here can justify why a response would occur in operant conditioning without a stimulus (nothing to prompt it) but the response cannot occur in classical conditioning without something to prompt it... no one see a flaw in this?

technically the prompt is another stimulus haha, but they call that the antecedent

Yep that basically sums it up. Does that solve it?

Sorry I don't mean to be stubborn I'm just doing whatever I can to convince you.

never heard of an antecedent, and I have no idea what sillysmile was saying. I am however adamant that operant conditioning requires a stimulus to elicit the behaviour that will be reinforced. find one study from your textbook that doesn't.

also, can someone define an antecedent? no mention of it in my textbook in the slightest

Im fairly sure its in the gravias textbook?
it was on the old course.

[Spreadbury]

WTFFFF!!! WTH IS GOING ONNNN!!??

i am not following this at all...

what is the stimulus in OC? and what is the reinforcement in CC??

wow you're really confused, no reinforcement in classical conditioning

[Spreadbury]

I'll email my psychology teacher, and tell you all what she says when she gets back to me. remember to justify your answers people, otherwise you could be giving unreliable answers

[sillysmile]

if anyone here can justify why a response would occur in operant conditioning without a stimulus (nothing to prompt it) but the response cannot occur in classical conditioning without something to prompt it... no one see a flaw in this?

technically the prompt is another stimulus haha, but they call that the antecedent

Yep that basically sums it up. Does that solve it?

Sorry I don't mean to be stubborn I'm just doing whatever I can to convince you.

never heard of an antecedent, and I have no idea what sillysmile was saying. I am however adamant that operant conditioning requires a stimulus to elicit the behaviour that will be reinforced. find one study from your textbook that doesn't.

also, can someone define an antecedent? no mention of it in my textbook in the slightest

Im fairly sure its in the gravias textbook?
it was on the old course.

it's in the heinemann also...
hang on I will have a look.

[jinny1]

A+ book pg 61 tells me...

CC: Reinforcement occurs "before' a response.  (reinforcement = stimulus ??)

OC: Reinforcement occurs 'after' the response.


im guessing you could replace reinforcement with "stimulus" as well

what is an antecedent event??

[matt123]

WTFFFF!!! WTH IS GOING ONNNN!!??

i am not following this at all...

what is the stimulus in OC? and what is the reinforcement in CC??

wow you're really confused, no reinforcement in classical conditioning

Well the gravias textbook says.

in CC , the reinforcer is given BEFORE the response.
which is messed up.
its in the table " nature of response" etc etc

e.g
the food is given before the salivation.

[matt123]

A+ book pg 61 tells me...

CC: Reinforcement occurs "before' a response.  (reinforcement = stimulus ??)

OC: Reinforcement occurs 'after' the response.


im guessing you could replace reinforcement with "stimulus" as well

what is an antecedent event??

yeah thats the whole point
read my post before this one.

[Spreadbury]

I don't want to start another argument, but the UCS is not a reinforcer of any kind.

[jinny1]

so the antecedent is just the stimulus presented before the response in CC?

[Slumdawg]

I have to admit that it was originally confusing for me too.

Yer me too.

Case closed?

Well done Sillysmile btw. I was thinking of the other word for stimulus/environment in operant conditioning. Then when I saw antecedents I was like "A-HA! There it is."

He's referring to Skinner's ABC (Antecedent - Behaviour - Consequences) model of operant conditioning. It's not well-known in VCE psych I don't think, as I only learnt it from my teacher and couldn't find it in my book.

Basically the antecedent is the thing in the environment which causes the response, so this is a stimulus in a way but in operant conditioning it isn't called a stimulus. The reinforcer or consequences are always known as the stimulus. - This is from my class notes written by my teacher who definitely knows her stuff..

[jinny1]

I don't want to start another argument, but the UCS is not a reinforcer of any kind.

It is because extinction occurs if you repeatedly present the CS without the UCS....

reinforcement: any stimulus that increases/strengthens a response