NSW to make maths compulsory again for year 11 and 12.

[Geoo]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-to-make-maths-mandatory-for-students-in-years-11-and-12-20191023-p533ma.html

So this just came out. Even though I am not a HSC student, I think this is really interesting.

Personally I am against this. I understand the thought behind it my making sure all graduates have a better knowledge on maths, but it will just take up subject space and for people who are not maths orientated it is just a waste of time, as no effort will be put into the subject.

As someone who knows quite a lot of people who struggle with maths and dislike it, I don't think it would be a good idea to add another compulsory subject on.

What are your thoughts?

[DrDusk]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-to-make-maths-mandatory-for-students-in-years-11-and-12-20191023-p533ma.html

So this just came out. Even though I am not a HSC student, I think this is really interesting.

Personally I am against this. I understand the thought behind it my making sure all graduates have a better knowledge on maths, but it will just take up subject space and for people who are not maths orientated it is just a waste of time, as no effort will be put into the subject.

As someone who knows quite a lot of people who struggle with maths and dislike it, I don't think it would be a good idea to add another compulsory subject on.

What are your thoughts?

I'm glad they added this. Now it's almost fair. The people who are better at humanities have to take that one subject that they hate just like us Stem kids had to take English =)
It's completely unfair to force us to sit through Hsc English AND have it count towards our atar when we're not all interested in the subject.

Really English either way in year 11 and 12 should not be compulsory, as I have said before I always got in the highest band for English in NAPLAN without ever concentrating in English at school.

[fun_jirachi]

It's completely unfair to force us to sit through Hsc English AND have it count towards our atar when we're not all interested in the subject.

Really English either way in year 11 and 12 should not be compulsory, as I have said before I always got in the highest band for English in NAPLAN without ever concentrating in English at school.

While I share the same view of hating the fact that English is compulsory, and it not being interest-based, I feel as though making maths compulsory is not the solution that makes things suddenly 'fair'. While you won't be examining Shakespearean text at age 50 as a mathematics professor or something, English still has some value despite me hating it (and also not being able to actually find that value through my study!), just the same as maths.

Given that I've hated English all this time, primarily because it was shoved down my throat despite my lack of interest, 100% do not think the solution is to likewise force maths down the throats of people that don't like it, or have struggles with it. The most ideal solution is obviously to make the HSC completely interest-based, but with current staffing shortages, it's proving hard to implement for the govt.

[zuijinde]

I'm glad they added this. Now it's almost fair. The people who are better at humanities have to take that one subject that they hate just like us Stem kids had to take English =)
It's completely unfair to force us to sit through Hsc English AND have it count towards our atar when we're not all interested in the subject.

Really English either way in year 11 and 12 should not be compulsory, as I have said before I always got in the highest band for English in NAPLAN without ever concentrating in English at school.

I personally believe English should be compulsory but not included in the top 4 (I think this goes for HSC as well, where your English score can drastically affect your ATAR).
Yes, although the compulsion of English doesn't really 'benefit' a lot of people, there are still components where I believe IS beneficial to students (like textual analysis and oral presentations).

Not too sure why maths is made compulsory as it doesn't really remedy anything, however it'd make more sense that the content you learn is appropriate for every student, like financial maths.

At least we have it easier. Take Hong Kong for example, they have 4 core subjects you must study (English, Chinese, Maths and Liberal arts)!

[Aaron]

I would personally argue the case for a level of maths to be compulsory over english, if anything.

I get why English is compulsory however in maths even though not everybody wants to do it or is good at it, the logic, problem solving and reasoning skills developed in a mathematical subject benefits everybody. I'm not saying here that everybody should choose a subject e.g. Maths/Specialist in VCE, but a maths subject designed to build foundation numeracy skills that are pivotal to their future success in society. If students want to choose these higher level mathematics subjects then by all means they should, but the alternative option exists however isn't taken up by many students OR schools (so a rethink is required)

Many students at my schools i've worked at (that i've spoken to) state to me they choose to do mathematics (e.g. general) because they correctly recognise the need for this, to get a good job and be successful. Some just hate the idea of maths altogether and that's fine, but we can't ignore the fact it is absolutely fundamental.

Perhaps I am biased with a STEM-like view, however one could make the case for both and if you are going to discount maths as a compulsory subject, then the same argument can also be applied to English. Both are fundamental to our society and future and I don't see a reason why we can't move with the trend of 7-10 with English/Maths as compulsory to make it consistent across the secondary schooling system.

It would certainly balance out the 'why is English compulsory and maths not?' argument.

The most ideal solution is obviously to make the HSC completely interest-based, but with current staffing shortages, it's proving hard to implement for the govt.

Wouldn't this be fantastic? However I really do think it isn't practical because even at the Year 12 level a lot of students have absolutely no bloody idea what they want to do and what they'll need to succeed. I think having a level of English and Maths enforced as part of the program is critical as those literacy/numeracy skills are required in all jobs and industries and without it, they'll be left behind. We have to remember that not everybody has an ability to take on those higher level subjects (or even go to university) and we must also cater to them and what they need to be successful.

[DrDusk]

I personally believe English should be compulsory but not included in the top 4 (I think this goes for HSC as well, where your English score can drastically affect your ATAR).
Yes, although the compulsion of English doesn't really 'benefit' a lot of people, there are still components where I believe IS beneficial to students (like textual analysis and oral presentations).

I love debating this =).

Well for me in the HSC we had just 1 oral presentation, spending a week or two preparing a presentation doesn't really give anyone enough confidence or knowledge to be able to significantly contribute to ones ability in giving an oral presentation.

I would love to know why you think it's beneficial, if you don't mind expanding =)

The knowledge I gained from the course is obviously not beneficial to anything I'm studying. Now one would argue the "skills" you get in English is what really matters, but really we spend four years of our high school life doing compulsory English(excluding year 11 and 12). By that time most of the people who wanna go into Stem have already learnt more than enough skills than is needed for their future studies/careers.

A famous quote by The Einstein himself comes to mind
"If you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will live it's whole life believing that it is stupid."

[DrDusk]

While I share the same view of hating the fact that English is compulsory, and it not being interest-based, I feel as though making maths compulsory is not the solution that makes things suddenly 'fair'.

Yeah I know your right =(, but I just had to rant somewhere haha. Two wrongs don't make a right

[caffinatedloz]

While I can see what Aaron and Dr Dusk are saying. I personally feel that the more choice students have in their subjects, the better. If a student does maths because they have to, they aren't going to put as much into it as if it was a subject they enjoyed. They also aren't going to get much (if anything) out of it, if they hate it and choose not to try.

Many students at my schools i've worked at (that i've spoken to) state to me they choose to do mathematics (e.g. general) because they correctly recognise the need for this, to get a good job and be successful. Some just hate the idea of maths altogether and that's fine, but we can't ignore the fact it is absolutely fundamental.

I completely agree with this, but I think the way that students have to decide for themselves that they think maths is important means that they will be more likely to work hard. If no one forces them to take it, but they recognise its importance, then they can remind themselves that they made the choice to motivate themselves.

[Joyn02]

While I think choice is important, I don't think it's the best argument in this case. If we allowed all students 'choice' I doubt the majority of us would've stayed in school past year 8.

I agree with Aaron. Maths is so much more than memorising formulas and plugging numbers into equations. Both English and Maths teach important skills and I don't think either should be neglected.

I personally know two people who have graduated without doing any maths past year 10, and both to some extent regretted their decision later on. I know anecdotal evidence isn't the strongest but I'm sure there are many more cases like these.

I think both English and Maths should be made compulsory until year 12, but I just don't think it must count towards your primary 4.