ATAR Notes: Forum

VCE Stuff => VCE English Studies => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE English Language => Topic started by: Joseph41 on November 20, 2016, 02:35:48 pm

Title: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on November 20, 2016, 02:35:48 pm
Hello. :)

I completed EngLang in 2012, and have since completed a First Class Honours degree in Linguistics. If you're studying EngLang this year (or plan to at some point in the future) and are confused about any of the content, feel free to ask questions here. If all goes well (no 100% guarantees, I guess hahaha), I plan to respond to each and every question - and hopefully others will be able to chime in, too! ;D

So if you fancy getting a head-start for EngLang 2017, this is the place!

---

NOTE: To post in this thread, you'll first need to register an ATAR Notes account. It's free, and should take like four seconds! Then, just scroll down to the bottom of this thread, and ask your questions in the "Quick Reply" box, as shown below. :)

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Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: tasmia on December 12, 2016, 11:43:52 pm
How do I prepare the most efficiently throughout the summer holidays? :p
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on December 13, 2016, 12:06:02 am
How do you recommend gathering language examples and quotes? What kinds of articles and quotes should I be looking for? Just any language related articles/quotes?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Wota on December 13, 2016, 12:31:03 am
what do you do to prepare for the exam?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on December 13, 2016, 10:24:06 am
How do I prepare the most efficiently throughout the summer holidays? :p

Hey, tasmia! :)

Good question. I think this one might actually change a little from student to student, but generally, I'd suggest getting up-to-date and confident with metalanguage. In particular, this metalanguage here, specified very clearly on pages 17 and 18 of the study design.

There's quite a lot of it, and you'll doubtlessly go over some of it in class, but IMO it's a great foundation for a successful year in English Language.

That aside, I'd highly recommend simply being aware of the language all around you. If you're watching the news and something linguisticsy strikes you as odd, make a note of it. Collect newspaper articles related to language (I promise, there will be a lot of them). Read online articles from prominent linguists, such as those of Kate Burridge on The Conversation. These will very likely come handy as examples later on in the year. :)

How do you recommend gathering language examples and quotes? What kinds of articles and quotes should I be looking for? Just any language related articles/quotes?

Hey there, peanut! :)

I don't think there is any hard restriction on the sort of examples and quotes you should be accumulating, but there are, of course, preferences:

- preferably from a decently well-known linguist or public figure;
- preferably contemporary (the more recent the better, really); and
- preferably trackable (that is, there's some source of it online or elsewhere).

As for how, I read both of the major newspapers (the Herald Sun and The Age) from front to back each morning, but that's obviously a little burdensome. Your best bet, I think, is to simply search for things (online) in the news relevant to the EngLang course. So if you take some major themes (taboo, euphemism, identity) and couple those themes with language, you'll be well on your way.

I mean, I just searched for "language taboo" on Google News, and some great stuff came up.

what do you do to prepare for the exam?

Good morning, Wota! :)

I found revision for EngLang slightly harder than other subjects due merely to a relative lack of resources. But that shouldn't constrict you, really. There are three sections to the exam, and each is quite different. To mix things up, I generally focused on one at a time, before trying to combine all three later in the year (closer to the exam).

Practice exams, of course, are good for revision (for all three sections), but otherwise, I really recommend making your own questions. There's nothing stopping you from looking around you, grabbing a language example, and analysing it (great for Section B!). I mean, you could grab a bag of chips and analyse the marketing or whatever; it doesn't have to be extensive. Google "Prime Ministerial speeches" or something and there'll be a heap of stuff you can use.

As for the essay (Section C), I went into the exam not knowing word-for-word any essays, but having a very good idea of what I would write for certain topics. As you progress through the syllabus, it will become apparent that certain themes come up over and over again. So instead of trying to memorise full essays (a bad idea IMO), I memorised rough essay structures (and examples), and that was very helpful for me. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on December 14, 2016, 11:25:36 pm
How old should my oldest language articles/examples be? Considering my exam would be in November 2017, would it be acceptable to refer to articles written in 2016 or even 2015? Obviously, I should aim to get the most recent articles, but I've searched online and I can find plenty of examples from 2015/2016. Is it okay to use them?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: ekay on December 14, 2016, 11:55:16 pm
How old should my oldest language articles/examples be? Considering my exam would be in November 2017, would it be acceptable to refer to articles written in 2016 or even 2015? Obviously, I should aim to get the most recent articles, but I've searched online and I can find plenty of examples from 2015/2016. Is it okay to use them?

i'd say aim to mainly use examples from 2017 (shows you've done your research and looked at how language is being used today), but 2016 examples should be ok as well, preferably from the later half of 2016. having said that tho, if you find a really really good example from 2015/2016 i don't think there's anything wrong with using them, that's still relatively recent! but for most examples you find in 2015/2016 you should be able to find examples that are pretty similar next year (e.g. there's always articles talking about racist tirades on public transport using 'chink', 'gook' etc) :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on December 15, 2016, 01:00:03 pm
How old should my oldest language articles/examples be? Considering my exam would be in November 2017, would it be acceptable to refer to articles written in 2016 or even 2015? Obviously, I should aim to get the most recent articles, but I've searched online and I can find plenty of examples from 2015/2016. Is it okay to use them?

Yeah, I largely agree with ekay^, here. I mean, a slightly dated example is better than no example at all, but a 2017 example will equally be better than a 2016 example. So to answer your question, yes, it would be acceptable to use 2015/2016 examples, but it would be preferable to have examples from 2017.

That obviously means that you'll need to collect them throughout the year, but that shouldn't be too burdensome. Do you think you'd benefit if we had a thread where users can collectively find contemporary examples?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Locinator on December 15, 2016, 02:07:38 pm
Hi Joseph,

I am unsure on how to approach, or study for, English Language. Having done two humanities this year, where notes could be structured purely on the key knowledge outlined in the study design, English Language appears other-worldly. Would an effective strategy be to write notes around the key knowledge for each AoS, and then apply this knowledge in practice peices?

Thank you
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: exit on December 16, 2016, 09:58:53 pm
What is some useful non-metalanguage vocabulary that I may not know that can assist with explanations. Thanks!
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on December 16, 2016, 10:52:38 pm
Yeah, I largely agree with ekay^, here. I mean, a slightly dated example is better than no example at all, but a 2017 example will equally be better than a 2016 example. So to answer your question, yes, it would be acceptable to use 2015/2016 examples, but it would be preferable to have examples from 2017.

That obviously means that you'll need to collect them throughout the year, but that shouldn't be too burdensome. Do you think you'd benefit if we had a thread where users can collectively find contemporary examples?
Yes, that sounds fantastic :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on December 17, 2016, 10:16:48 pm
i'd say aim to mainly use examples from 2017 (shows you've done your research and looked at how language is being used today), but 2016 examples should be ok as well, preferably from the later half of 2016. having said that tho, if you find a really really good example from 2015/2016 i don't think there's anything wrong with using them, that's still relatively recent! but for most examples you find in 2015/2016 you should be able to find examples that are pretty similar next year (e.g. there's always articles talking about racist tirades on public transport using 'chink', 'gook' etc) :)
Yeah, I largely agree with ekay^, here. I mean, a slightly dated example is better than no example at all, but a 2017 example will equally be better than a 2016 example. So to answer your question, yes, it would be acceptable to use 2015/2016 examples, but it would be preferable to have examples from 2017.

That obviously means that you'll need to collect them throughout the year, but that shouldn't be too burdensome. Do you think you'd benefit if we had a thread where users can collectively find contemporary examples?
Following on from this, I assume "recent media examples" and "quotes" are distinct from each other? Am I correct in assuming that quotes do not have to be as recent as media examples, rather, the quotes should be from reputable linguists?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Individu on December 17, 2016, 11:06:33 pm
Following on from this, I assume "recent media examples" and "quotes" are distinct from each other? Am I correct in assuming that quotes do not have to be as recent as media examples, rather, the quotes should be from reputable linguists?

Yes that is correct, quotes from linguists do not have to be recent. Try to at least remember the linguist's last name so you might say something like there is a "natural connection" between language and identity (Kramsch). Also note that you don't have to quote whole sentences, you just have to include key words. Paraphrasing is not only easier but many times also flows better. E.g. As aptly put by David Crystal, texting has added a "new dimension" to language.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on December 18, 2016, 11:10:15 am
Hi Joseph,

I am unsure on how to approach, or study for, English Language. Having done two humanities this year, where notes could be structured purely on the key knowledge outlined in the study design, English Language appears other-worldly. Would an effective strategy be to write notes around the key knowledge for each AoS, and then apply this knowledge in practice peices?

Thank you

Hey there, Locinator! :)

That's a great question - EngLang can seem very foreign at first. And you're right in saying that it is a little different to content-heavy humanities subjects. I don't think it's something to be afraid of, though, and I promise you that it will become more intuitive as you progress through the course.

I think your proposed strategy is pretty solid. My top priority at this stage would definitely be learning the metalanguage. When you feel comfortable enough with that (you can sort of learn as you go), then yeah, start incorporating it into practice pieces (and remember here to analyse a wide range of texts). Then, throughout the year (particularly for essays), you can incorporate contemporary examples and quotes.

To answer your question directly, I think writing notes for the key knowledge is a fine place to start. I had a workbook that outlined each of the five subsystems in some depth, and I found that very useful. ;D

Does that answer your question? :)

What is some useful non-metalanguage vocabulary that I may not know that can assist with explanations. Thanks!

Howdy, exit! :)

I'm not sure I quite follow the question (explanations of what?), but to be honest, you don't need much else. Examiners won't be marking you highly for using fancy words; they'll be marking you highly for being clear.

Of course, part of that will involve reducing repetition, for which you may find this thread useful: Daily Vocab Questions Thread

Yes, that sounds fantastic :)

Great! I'll get onto it soon. Looking forward to some contributions! ;D

Following on from this, I assume "recent media examples" and "quotes" are distinct from each other? Am I correct in assuming that quotes do not have to be as recent as media examples, rather, the quotes should be from reputable linguists?

Yes that is correct, quotes from linguists do not have to be recent. Try to at least remember the linguist's last name so you might say something like there is a "natural connection" between language and identity (Kramsch). Also note that you don't have to quote whole sentences, you just have to include key words. Paraphrasing is not only easier but many times also flows better. E.g. As aptly put by David Crystal, texting has added a "new dimension" to language.


IMO Individu has pretty much nailed it; quotes don't need to be contemporary (as in, from 2016 or 2017), as is preferred with the language examples. I'd probably try to chuck in the year of the quote, though, if possible. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on December 18, 2016, 11:24:52 am
Yes, that sounds fantastic :)

The new thread is here: English Language 2017+: a collation of quotes and language examples

It also links the old thread in the opening post. No examples yet, but I'll get onto it - and hopefully everybody here can contribute! ;D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: exit on December 20, 2016, 09:43:38 pm

Howdy, exit! :)

I'm not sure I quite follow the question (explanations of what?), but to be honest, you don't need much else. Examiners won't be marking you highly for using fancy words; they'll be marking you highly for being clear.



Hey Joseph,

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking there would be more words like 'interlocutor' that are commonly used in EngLang essays. But I guess not!

What resources are available to practice discourse analysis and short answer questions? There are practice exams as well as the green 'exam guide', but are they truly enough? I was wondering also if it's a good use of time to resubmit essays after correction from the teacher, striving for something perfect.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on December 20, 2016, 09:51:02 pm
Hey Joseph,

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking there would be more words like 'interlocutor' that are commonly used in EngLang essays. But I guess not!

Right, right - I see what you mean now. Interlocutor is a good one, but I'll have a think and get back to you (I tried thinking just then but I'm too distracted by the cricket hahaha).

Quote
What resources are available to practice discourse analysis and short answer questions? There are practice exams as well as the green 'exam guide', but are they truly enough? I was wondering also if it's a good use of time to resubmit essays after correction from the teacher, striving for something perfect.

Yeah! I absolutely love this method; I think it's really, really useful.

Put it this way: I'd rather submit an essay, get feedback, improve it, submit it again, get feedback, improve it, and submit it for a third time, than write three new essays (I hope that sentence made sense). I just think you learn so much more by actively addressing your mistakes, and it gives you great insight into what a really, really good piece of work looks like. And the more you do that, the more natural it becomes to produce that quality of work the first time around. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on December 23, 2016, 10:19:11 am
Hey Joseph,

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking there would be more words like 'interlocutor' that are commonly used in EngLang essays. But I guess not!

What resources are available to practice discourse analysis and short answer questions? There are practice exams as well as the green 'exam guide', but are they truly enough? I was wondering also if it's a good use of time to resubmit essays after correction from the teacher, striving for something perfect.

I was thinking about this last night when I remembered that VCAA actually lists a whole bunch of terms! They may not be exactly what you're talking about, but it's certainly a good start to be very familiar with these concepts (further to the metalanguage specifically listed under the subsystems):

Spoiler
- register
- overt and covert norms
- Standard and non-Standard English
- political correctness
- jargon
- slang
- colloquial language/colloquialisms
- double-speak
- taboo language
- public language
- rhetoric
- positive and negative face needs
- situational context
- cultural context
- social purpose
- ethnolect; sociolect; idiolect

Source: study design, page 18.

Feel free to clarify anything here. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on December 24, 2016, 04:27:20 pm
Apologies for the triple post; I'll merge them when somebody replies.

But I just found this resource, which looks great and I'm sure would go some way to answering the question(s) above. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on January 02, 2017, 04:18:16 pm
Hi,
Thanks everyone (especially Joseph41) for putting out all these English Language resources. I have a quick question:
What "name" is given to these things? I always see them grouped together, so I figured there might be a collective name for all of them.
Function, field, mode, setting and audience (including the relationships between participants)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on January 02, 2017, 07:26:10 pm
Hi,
Thanks everyone (especially Joseph41) for putting out all these English Language resources. I have a quick question:
What "name" is given to these things? I always see them grouped together, so I figured there might be a collective name for all of them.
Function, field, mode, setting and audience (including the relationships between participants)

Hey peanut,

No problem! The EngLang board was a little sparse, do you not think? ;)

I'm not really aware of a specific term, to be honest - does it specify one in the study design? Otherwise, I think contextual factors would probably suffice. I mean, these are all the types of thing that you'd include in an introduction to an analytical commentary, and they're all sort of setting the scene, as it were.

What do others think? :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: mtDNA on January 10, 2017, 10:51:30 pm
Hey, I just wanted to ask what the difference is between a phoneme and a phone? The current definition I have is:
Phone: the smallest structural unit of sound that is produced in an utterance
Phoneme: the smallest unit of sound that can produce contrasts (?)

But with these definitions, I don't really understand the difference...  :-\

Thanks in advance  ;)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: dan0038 on January 13, 2017, 05:53:31 pm
does anyone have any links to past practice exams for english language that isn't from VCAA? Cheers
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on January 14, 2017, 06:44:35 pm
According to VCAA, does register refer to the level of formality or the specific variety of a language used for a particular purpose? For example would "highly informal" or "legal English" be a register?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Individu on January 14, 2017, 08:58:29 pm
Register is essentially the degree of formality. The text's register is influenced by contextual factors such as the interlocutors involved (e.g. are they close friends or is there a level of social distance?), the setting (court, school etc.) and some other factors.

'Legal english' or legalese would be a type of jargon - a specialised type of language used amongst people of a certain field or hobby. Examples include medical jargon and gamer language. Different types of jargon have different registers - legalese and medical jargon would have a formal register whilst gamer language tends to be more informal.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: mtDNA on January 17, 2017, 12:53:18 pm
In regards to finding quotes for section C, are there any recommended linguistic books to read? I've heard of Mother Tongue, Mastering Advanced English Language, etc., but are they really worth it? If so, which ones are the best resource? Moreover, what are the alternative methods for finding quotes?

Thanks in Advance  :D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: literally lauren on January 24, 2017, 10:24:02 am
Hey, I just wanted to ask what the difference is between a phoneme and a phone? The current definition I have is:
Phone: the smallest structural unit of sound that is produced in an utterance
Phoneme: the smallest unit of sound that can produce contrasts (?)

But with these definitions, I don't really understand the difference...  :-\

Thanks in advance  ;)
Hi there!

That definition you've got of phonemes being sounds that can produce contrasts is the most important distinction.

As an example, consider the letter 'p' and the sound it makes. Now, while holding your hand in front of your mouth, say the words 'pin' and 'spin' a couple of times each.

Notice how when you say the word 'pin,' a puff of air hits your hand? That's because the 'p' sound is aspirated (meaning it's accompanied by an outwards breath of air) - denoted as ph. But there's no aspiration in 'spin.'

Now, phones are our way of classifying all the different types of sounds, so 'p' and ph are two different phones. This is true no matter what language you're talking about - these will always be two distinct types of sounds.

However, in English, we don't make a distinction in meaning between aspirated and non-aspirated sounds. If you pronounced 'spin' with an aspirated 'p', people would still know what you were saying. This means that 'p' and 'ph' are the same phoneme in English.

Contrast that with something like voicing (i.e. the vibration in your throat when you produce certain sounds). If you already know about this, then you can skip the explanatory bit, but if you hold two fingers to your throat and say the words 'pat' and 'bat' you'll notice a vibration feeling when you produce the 'b' sound. We know 'p' and 'b' are different phones because there is this difference between them (i.e. 'p' is unvoiced, 'b' is voiced) but they're also different phonemes because there is a difference in meaning between 'pat' and 'bat' BUT there is no difference in meaning between 'spin' and 'sphin'

So phones = the smallest unit of sound that we can isolate

And phonemes = sound units that produce contrasts in a language.

Hopefully that makes sense!

In regards to finding quotes for section C, are there any recommended linguistic books to read? I've heard of Mother Tongue, Mastering Advanced English Language, etc., but are they really worth it? If so, which ones are the best resource? Moreover, what are the alternative methods for finding quotes?

Thanks in Advance  :D
I'd recommend trying to narrow down your search first - if you want some very general material, then just googling 'books about language' or 'quotes about English language' should give you a starting point...
(http://i.imgur.com/DQyTDtN.png)
But it'd probably be more efficient to come up with a list of key themes or sub-ideas within Englang and then brainstorm quotes for each one. For example:
     - quotes about formality/informality in English
     - quotes about taboo language
     - quotes about language change
     - quotes about political correctness
     - quotes about language identity
     - quotes about language learning
...and so on. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: mtDNA on January 25, 2017, 01:48:24 pm
Hi there!

That definition you've got of phonemes being sounds that can produce contrasts is the most important distinction.

As an example, consider the letter 'p' and the sound it makes. Now, while holding your hand in front of your mouth, say the words 'pin' and 'spin' a couple of times each.

Notice how when you say the word 'pin,' a puff of air hits your hand? That's because the 'p' sound is aspirated (meaning it's accompanied by an outwards breath of air) - denoted as ph. But there's no aspiration in 'spin.'

Now, phones are our way of classifying all the different types of sounds, so 'p' and ph are two different phones. This is true no matter what language you're talking about - these will always be two distinct types of sounds.

However, in English, we don't make a distinction in meaning between aspirated and non-aspirated sounds. If you pronounced 'spin' with an aspirated 'p', people would still know what you were saying. This means that 'p' and 'ph' are the same phoneme in English.

Contrast that with something like voicing (i.e. the vibration in your throat when you produce certain sounds). If you already know about this, then you can skip the explanatory bit, but if you hold two fingers to your throat and say the words 'pat' and 'bat' you'll notice a vibration feeling when you produce the 'b' sound. We know 'p' and 'b' are different phones because there is this difference between them (i.e. 'p' is unvoiced, 'b' is voiced) but they're also different phonemes because there is a difference in meaning between 'pat' and 'bat' BUT there is no difference in meaning between 'spin' and 'sphin'

So phones = the smallest unit of sound that we can isolate

And phonemes = sound units that produce contrasts in a language.

Hopefully that makes sense!
I'd recommend trying to narrow down your search first - if you want some very general material, then just googling 'books about language' or 'quotes about English language' should give you a starting point...
(http://i.imgur.com/DQyTDtN.png)
But it'd probably be more efficient to come up with a list of key themes or sub-ideas within Englang and then brainstorm quotes for each one. For example:
     - quotes about formality/informality in English
     - quotes about taboo language
     - quotes about language change
     - quotes about political correctness
     - quotes about language identity
     - quotes about language learning
...and so on. :)

THANKS SO MUCH - this makes so much sense now  ;D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: ekay on January 28, 2017, 04:01:45 pm
In regards to finding quotes for section C, are there any recommended linguistic books to read? I've heard of Mother Tongue, Mastering Advanced English Language, etc., but are they really worth it? If so, which ones are the best resource? Moreover, what are the alternative methods for finding quotes?

Thanks in Advance  :D

Whilst ideally it'd be good to read a linguist's whole book for quotes, in Year 12 you want to maximise your study time as much as possible so I'd say it's better to read up on articles/papers/case studies that linguists have written which are relevant to your essay topic instead, because:
1. They're usually not that long so it doesn't take too long to read
2. You're more likely to find relevant evidence and quotes that you can use in your essays

Students often also use linguist quotes banks that previous students have collated or watch YouTube videos/TED talks by linguists to get quotes as well. Newspaper articles sometimes have good quotes too!
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: AngelWings on January 28, 2017, 04:36:04 pm
does anyone have any links to past practice exams for english language that isn't from VCAA? Cheers
One of the rules on here is generally that copyrighted materials are not allowed to be shared (no lawsuits please), but I can recommend you check out TSSM, Engage Education and VATE as very good sources for company exam papers. Unfortunately most of those require a little money, but nonetheless, if you're willing, they should be quite adequate for your VCE English Language needs.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on February 03, 2017, 02:29:05 pm
I'm super stoked that this thread has been somewhat active recently! I was away for the last month, but I'm back now, so I'm happy to field more questions. :)

A huge thank you to those who have kept this thread flowing. Lauren's post in particular was slick! All dem +1s. ;D

does anyone have any links to past practice exams for english language that isn't from VCAA? Cheers

As referenced by AngelWings above, you could start with these from Engage Education.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on February 16, 2017, 04:40:56 pm
What is substitution (listed under Discourse subsystem in the VCAA metalanguage list)?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on February 17, 2017, 09:37:58 am
What is substitution (listed under Discourse subsystem in the VCAA metalanguage list)?

Great question! ;D

Essentially, substitution is, as the name suggests, substituting one thing for another. It can be used very effectively to aid coherence in a text (hence its listing under Discourse).

For example, in this transaction:

Person A: Do you prefer the bigger screen or the smaller screen?
Person B: The smaller one.

Person B has substituted the noun screen for the pronoun one. This is a fairly basic example, but substitution is particularly nice in avoiding repetition. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: syubi on February 26, 2017, 05:08:43 pm
What is the difference between sentence fragments and ellipses?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on February 26, 2017, 05:21:45 pm
What is the difference between sentence fragments and ellipses?
A sentence fragment is an incomplete sentence. This is because it doesn't have a verb.
For example: "addicting like sugar"
An ellipse is simply when information is left out, because it is general knowledge or old information.
For example: "The dog walked inside the building. It got lost (inside the building)." "Inside the building" is the part which is ellipted.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: syubi on February 26, 2017, 06:17:02 pm
A sentence fragment is an incomplete sentence. This is because it doesn't have a verb.
For example: "addicting like sugar"
An ellipse is simply when information is left out, because it is general knowledge or old information.
For example: "The dog walked inside the building. It got lost (inside the building)." "Inside the building" is the part which is ellipted.

Got it. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Ahmad_A_1999 on February 26, 2017, 08:33:26 pm
Hey guys,

How does 'swearing' contribute to the register of a text (given that the text is informal)?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on February 27, 2017, 12:45:54 pm
What is the difference between sentence fragments and ellipses?

A sentence fragment is an incomplete sentence. This is because it doesn't have a verb.
For example: "addicting like sugar"
An ellipse is simply when information is left out, because it is general knowledge or old information.
For example: "The dog walked inside the building. It got lost (inside the building)." "Inside the building" is the part which is ellipted.

Great answer, peanut - thanks! :) Also an excellent question, syubi.

I'll just add that, from my understanding, a sentence fragment can be as such due to ellipses. So, for example:

Person A: I love you
Person B: You, too

We can glean from context that Person B is really saying, "I love you, too". But in that particular utterance, the subject (I) and the verb (love) have both been omitted - so, elision. But that elision has led to the sentence fragment of "You, too". :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on February 27, 2017, 12:51:59 pm
Hey guys,

How does 'swearing' contribute to the register of a text (given that the text is informal)?

Hey, Ahmad! ;D Let me know if this doesn't really answer your question, but:

Swearing in general is very informal. One reason for this is that it tends to be based on taboo topics of the time. (As an aside, the nature of swearing seems to be changing; "swear words" used to be based on religion, now body parts - and the trend seems to be toward -ist language (so racist, sexist, religionist, ableist etc.)).

Something like cunt is very informal for this reason (it's based on something taboo - in this case, the female genitalia). You wouldn't see the lexeme in (the vast majority of) formal speech or writing because it's way too slangy.

Of course, cunt has recently picked up negative connotations, which is another reason for its informality. It's often used in a derogatory sense, and obviously is used to offend ("piss off, cunt", and so on).

It's interesting what impact taboo has, though, isn't it? We stop using words that even sound similar to other words associated with taboo topics. The word feck (meaning something like efficiency), for example, is rarely used in contemporary language. Cunny, meaning rabbit, was remodelled to either bunny or coney (as in Coney Island).

Did that answer your question? :-\
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on February 27, 2017, 09:29:48 pm
What are the main features of formal language? All I can think of is formal language being less ambiguous, more likely to be planned and more likely to be aware of audience's interpretation.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on February 28, 2017, 09:32:03 am
What are the main features of formal language? All I can think of is formal language being less ambiguous, more likely to be planned and more likely to be aware of audience's interpretation.

Hey, peanut. :) I agree that formal language is a little more difficult to discuss than informal language; if you're really struggling, though, you can always think about features of informal language, and then basically use the opposite. :)

But I recommend trying to think of formal language specifically in regard to each subsystem. A really, really quick list to which you may wish to add:

Phonology and phonetics
- Cultivated accent (more like Received Pronunciation/Queen's English)
- Clearer diction
- No yod-dropping
- Less consonant flapping
- Less assimilation (perhaps clearer word boundaries)
- More Standard pronunciation in general (so like, limited metathesis)

Morphology and lexicology
- More 'conventional' lexemes (less slang)
- But perhaps more jargon, particularly in something like legalese
- Different pronouns (like, you would rarely use one in very informal speech or writing)
- Less 'wordplay'

Syntax
- Perhaps fewer sentence fragments
- Greater nominalisation
- Hypotaxis rather than parataxis
- More complex and compound-complex sentence structures

Discourse
- Interesting stuff can be said about honorifics/greetings (so like, "hey man, wassup?" as opposed to "To Whom It May Concern")
- Debatably formal language is more prevalent in writing than speech
- Politeness features/hesitancy/hedging
- Clear coherence and cohesion

Semantics
- Again, less wordplay (fewer metaphors, similes, puns, idioms etc.)
- Potentially more 'diluted' language to avoid taboo
- Perhaps less euphemism/dysphemism

You could also try going over the metalanguage featured on pages 17-18 of the study design to see what you can apply. Those two pages are actually so, so useful. ;D

Does that help at all? :)

Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on February 28, 2017, 09:55:23 am
Just a few questions
Can I switch to eng land if I struggle with mainstream english
is the scaling worth it
how hard is to get 30 raw study score
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on February 28, 2017, 10:02:18 am
Can I switch to eng land if I struggle with mainstream english

Yes, if your school allows it.

Quote
is the scaling worth it

No, not by itself.

Quote
how hard is to get 30 raw study score

The top 50% will achieve a study score of 30 or above.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on February 28, 2017, 10:46:04 am
Yes, if your school allows it.

No, not by itself.

The top 50% will achieve a study score of 30 or above.
Thanks
Also, do you have to read big novels in English language
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: exit on February 28, 2017, 03:10:15 pm
Thanks
Also, do you have to read big novels in English language

No but it is generally harder. Do not switch if you don't know whether EngLang suits you. More people tend to switch back to mainstream than switch to EngLang. Read the study design yourself and see whether you find it interesting.

If you suck at the Language Analysis component at mainstream English then I have some bad news for you.

You're question suggests that you haven't done the research into what EngLang actually is, so my default answer would be do not change.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: tasmia on March 07, 2017, 11:01:56 pm
Hey hey, could you help me with listing features of an informal speech/transcript? Got a SAC coming up soon :/ Thanks
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 08, 2017, 09:41:25 am
Hey hey, could you help me with listing features of an informal speech/transcript? Got a SAC coming up soon :/ Thanks

Hey, tasmia! Unrelated, but I love your signature hahaha. ;D

Is the SAC a 1/2 SAC? How are you feeling for it? Here's a very quick list of informal speech features, but I'm sure you'll be able to add more. I recommend going over the study design (]pages 17 and 18 specifically) to see what you can apply.

Phonology and phonetics
- Broad accent (more like Received Pronunciation/Queen's English)
- Non-Standard phonological features (such as a high rising terminal)
- Assimilation
- Vowel reduction
- Elision
- Insertion
- Onomatopoeia

Morphology and lexicology
- Slang
- Irregular/non-Standard affixation
- Creative word formation (blends, acronyms, shortenings etc.)
- Lexical choices pertinent to informal semantic fields

Syntax
- Sentence fragments
- Perhaps less of a dependence on declarative sentence types
- Non-Standard syntactic constructions

Discourse
- Code-switching
- Features of spoken discourse: openings and closings, adjacency pairs, overlapping speech, interrogative tags, discourse particles, non-fluency features
- Topic management
- Turn-taking
- Floor management
- Minimal responses/backchannelling

Semantics
- Informal semantic fields/domains
- Irony, metaphor, oxymoron, simile, personification, animation, puns, lexical ambiguity
- Euphemism and dysphemism

I hope this helps. :) Feel free to clarify any of these terms.

Good luck! ;D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: tasmia on March 08, 2017, 09:01:51 pm
Hey, tasmia! Unrelated, but I love your signature hahaha. ;D

Thanks hehe. A fellow Friends fan?

Is the SAC a 1/2 SAC? How are you feeling for it?

Yup, this is just a short answer SAC on informal language and then we also have to do a commentary some time on the same AOS.
I feel surprisingly calm actually. I've been practicing writing short answers for a while now. Is this what being prepared feels like? :D

I hope this helps. :) Feel free to clarify any of these terms.

Good luck! ;D

This helps a lot thank you!! I just needed a list of metalanguage so I could look at it over and over again before the SAC this Friday.
Thanks again!! I'm going to need all the luck (I have 2 SACs on the same day next week ugh)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 09, 2017, 09:09:27 am
Thanks hehe. A fellow Friends fan?

Of course! I actually never watched it in its initial run, but have since watched every episode on multiple occasions haha.

Quote
Yup, this is just a short answer SAC on informal language and then we also have to do a commentary some time on the same AOS.
I feel surprisingly calm actually. I've been practicing writing short answers for a while now. Is this what being prepared feels like? :D

Hahaha that's fantastic! Nice work. :)

Quote
This helps a lot thank you!! I just needed a list of metalanguage so I could look at it over and over again before the SAC this Friday.
Thanks again!! I'm going to need all the luck (I have 2 SACs on the same day next week ugh)

Nooo worries at all. Let us know how it goes - best of luck! :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Ahmad_A_1999 on March 09, 2017, 09:38:23 pm
Hey guys,

Could someone please explain how I should go about discussing 'topic management' in a spoken informal text, for a short answer question?
What things should I be looking out for in the transcript and how should I structure my response?

Also how can I talk about 'turn taking' reflecting relationships between interlocutors in a spoken informal text?

I'm really struggling preparing for a SAC in two weeks time  :-\
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on March 10, 2017, 12:30:16 pm
Is english language any easier than mainstream english. Do you have to read novels and stuff, because i was considering changing to englang in term 3
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: exit on March 10, 2017, 05:03:58 pm
Is english language any easier than mainstream english. Do you have to read novels and stuff, because i was considering changing to englang in term 3

No, I answered your question in page 3
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on March 10, 2017, 05:35:48 pm
No, I answered your question in page 3
Oops, didn't realise, sorry about that
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on March 12, 2017, 12:08:19 pm
Is politeness the same as face needs? If not, what is it? Is it literally "being polite"?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: TheAspiringDoc on March 13, 2017, 11:00:07 am
Hey 👋
How do you guys (is that a good language example for something because guys incorporates girls?) like to structure your metalanguage glossaries? Perhaps by the subsystems - as listed in the study design, or how else?
Sorry if this has been asked before!
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Alexicology on March 13, 2017, 06:33:49 pm
Hi,

I was wondering what was included the introduction of an analytical commentary?

Context, social purpose, text type, mode, register, field, audience anything else?

What's contextual factor?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 13, 2017, 06:59:44 pm
Hey guys,

Could someone please explain how I should go about discussing 'topic management' in a spoken informal text, for a short answer question?
What things should I be looking out for in the transcript and how should I structure my response?

Also how can I talk about 'turn taking' reflecting relationships between interlocutors in a spoken informal text?

I'm really struggling preparing for a SAC in two weeks time  :-\

Hey, Ahmad! :)

All you really need to do to discuss topic management is identify where and how the subject of conversation changed. So like, Speaker A may introduce the first topic but then, on line 10, Speaker B changes the subject. And then on line 26, Speaker A changes it back to the initial topic. And so on.

Interlocutors can manage the topic in a number of ways. Subject shifts can be very obvious ("so, to change the topic...") or less so. Ultimately, just follow the transcript from start to finish and speak about what the topic was, how it progressed, and who managed that topic (and how).

Does that answer your question? :/

In regard to turn-taking, you can usually glean relationship between the interlocutors by the types of turns. If they're all very structured, for example - with limited overlapping speech - the relationship seems more formal. This may be the case in, for example, a job interview, where one interlocutor (the interviewee) speaks only when addressed (essentially, when they're given the floor). When social relationships are closer, turn-taking may be more aggressive and less structured. You may notice with your friends, for example, that there is more overlapping speech and butting in.

Please post again if that wasn't clear (I don't think it was hugely well explained) or if you have any other questions before your SAC! ;D

Is english language any easier than mainstream english. Do you have to read novels and stuff, because i was considering changing to englang in term 3

Hey NAT,

I don't think anybody can really answer whether or not English Language is "easier" than English, because that's a purely subjective judgement call. But no, you don't need to read any novels. :)

Is politeness the same as face needs? If not, what is it? Is it literally "being polite"?

They're definitely related - like, you might use politeness features to avoid infringing on negative face. But yeah, you can practically think of it as just "being polite".

Speaking more linguistically, there are some features that are common in terms of politeness, such as hedging.

Hey 👋
How do you guys (is that a good language example for something because guys incorporates girls?) like to structure your metalanguage glossaries? Perhaps by the subsystems - as listed in the study design, or how else?
Sorry if this has been asked before!

I definitely recommend going subsystem by subsystem! This just makes it easier (IMO) to remember what's included in which subsystem, which is useful for the analytical commentary. :)

Hi,

I was wondering what was included the introduction of an analytical commentary?

Context, social purpose, text type, mode, register, field, audience anything else?

What's contextual factor?

Yep, all of those things can be included.

Other things you might like to include are relationship between the speakers, location, time period.

And just checking - by social purpose, you're referring to the function of the text, right? :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Alexicology on March 13, 2017, 07:04:38 pm



[/quote] I definitely recommend going subsystem by subsystem! This just makes it easier (IMO) to remember what's included in which subsystem, which is useful for the analytical commentary. :)

Yep, all of those things can be included.

Other things you might like to include are relationship between the speakers, location, time period.

And just checking - by social purpose, you're referring to the function of the text, right? :)
[/quote]

Thanks a lot

Yes by social purpose I'm referring to function.
:)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 13, 2017, 07:05:41 pm


 I definitely recommend going subsystem by subsystem! This just makes it easier (IMO) to remember what's included in which subsystem, which is useful for the analytical commentary. :)

Yep, all of those things can be included.

Other things you might like to include are relationship between the speakers, location, time period.

And just checking - by social purpose, you're referring to the function of the text, right? :)


Thanks a lot

Yes by social purpose I'm referring to function.
:)

Not a problem at all! :) If you want to post a sample introductory paragraph, I'd be happy to give feedback. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Alexicology on March 13, 2017, 07:19:11 pm
Not a problem at all! :) If you want to post a sample introductory paragraph, I'd be happy to give feedback. :)

Hi Joseph,

Can you teach me how to post a intoductory paragraph becuase I tried to attach it as a JPEG but it was too large and the max limit is 546kB or something?

How do you do it?

Thanks
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: seth on March 13, 2017, 07:25:12 pm
Hi Joseph,

Can you teach me how to post a intoductory paragraph becuase I tried to attach it as a JPEG but it was too large and the max limit is 546kB or something?

How do you do it?

Thanks

Not Joseph but you could upload the image to a photo sharing site (e.g imgur or tinypic) and post the link here, or just simply type it out as a reply to the thread (this is preferable as it's easiest to read and provide feedback for).
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on March 13, 2017, 07:31:51 pm
What kind of things do you do in english language. I was considering switching to english language from mainstream english
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Ahmad_A_1999 on March 13, 2017, 08:04:31 pm
Hey, Ahmad! :)

All you really need to do to discuss topic management is identify where and how the subject of conversation changed. So like, Speaker A may introduce the first topic but then, on line 10, Speaker B changes the subject. And then on line 26, Speaker A changes it back to the initial topic. And so on.

Interlocutors can manage the topic in a number of ways. Subject shifts can be very obvious ("so, to change the topic...") or less so. Ultimately, just follow the transcript from start to finish and speak about what the topic was, how it progressed, and who managed that topic (and how).

Does that answer your question? :/

In regard to turn-taking, you can usually glean relationship between the interlocutors by the types of turns. If they're all very structured, for example - with limited overlapping speech - the relationship seems more formal. This may be the case in, for example, a job interview, where one interlocutor (the interviewee) speaks only when addressed (essentially, when they're given the floor). When social relationships are closer, turn-taking may be more aggressive and less structured. You may notice with your friends, for example, that there is more overlapping speech and butting in.

Please post again if that wasn't clear (I don't think it was hugely well explained) or if you have any other questions before your SAC! ;D

Hey Joseph!

Thank you! I think I got it!

So topic management, discuss where changes in topic/subject occur through out the transcript, and turn-taking discuss who is holding the most social power in the conversation/power roles.

Could you tell me some of these different mechanisms you said speakers use to manage the topic with?  :)

Also I'll be on here very frequently because language is so hard.  ;D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: AngelWings on March 13, 2017, 09:37:06 pm
What kind of things do you do in english language. I was considering switching to english language from mainstream english

Please see the study design for guidance. If you don't like being analytical and linguistics, English Language is not something for you. It is arguably harder than mainstream English.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on March 13, 2017, 09:40:47 pm
Please see the study design for guidance. If you don't like being analytical and linguistics, English Language is not something for you. It is arguably harder than mainstream English.
It seems more like a sciency english
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Alexicology on March 13, 2017, 09:59:07 pm
Not Joseph but you could upload the image to a photo sharing site (e.g imgur or tinypic) and post the link here, or just simply type it out as a reply to the thread (this is preferable as it's easiest to read and provide feedback for).

Thanks seth


Can someone please correct my introduction for Analytical Commentary? The link of the text is in red in brackets

Thank you

http://imgur.com/a/R813f
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 15, 2017, 05:10:07 pm
What kind of things do you do in english language. I was considering switching to english language from mainstream english

Yep, reading the study design would be a good idea. :) But basically, you analyse language! ;D This includes how language develops, how it's used, and what its effects are in society.

Hey Joseph!

Thank you! I think I got it!

So topic management, discuss where changes in topic/subject occur through out the transcript, and turn-taking discuss who is holding the most social power in the conversation/power roles.

Could you tell me some of these different mechanisms you said speakers use to manage the topic with?  :)

Also I'll be on here very frequently because language is so hard.  ;D

Yep, that's basically it, Ahmad! :)

Topic management can be very obvious, very subtle, or anywhere in between. Discourse markers can be used to indicate a new topic ("So, I went to the beach yesterday"). Sometimes there are explicit lexemes used for that function ("To change the topic slightly..."). Phonology can also be useful, here; typically, intonation goes down when a turn ends, and goes up if the speaker wants to maintain the floor - and these turns are often associated with particular topics/subjects. :)

And I can't wait to see you around throughout the year. ;D EngLang is a supremely excellent subject, even if it is difficult haha.

Thanks seth


Can someone please correct my introduction for Analytical Commentary? The link of the text is in red in brackets

Thank you

http://imgur.com/a/R813f


Hey, Alexicology! Thanks for posting your introduction. :) Nice handwriting. ;)

Some thoughts:
- As a general rule, I like the first sentence to explicitly introduce the text (so like, "Text A is a transcript of Paul Keating's eulogy..." or whatever).
- I like how you've addressed the context of the piece, the audience, the social purpose, the register (formality), the relationship between Keating and the audience, and the semantic field. These are all very important things to include in the introduction. :) You might also like to think about the mode (spoken or written?) and time period (when did the text take place?).
- To lead into your body paragraphs, you might like to have a sentence like: "The formality of the text/the social purpose of the text is reflected by [whatever subsystems you're discussing]."

Nice job! :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on March 15, 2017, 05:11:13 pm
Yep, reading the study design would be a good idea. :) But basically, you analyse language! ;D This includes how language develops, how it's used, and what its effects are in society.

Yep, that's basically it, Ahmad! :)

Topic management can be very obvious, very subtle, or anywhere in between. Discourse markers can be used to indicate a new topic ("So, I went to the beach yesterday"). Sometimes there are explicit lexemes used for that function ("To change the topic slightly..."). Phonology can also be useful, here; typically, intonation goes down when a turn ends, and goes up if the speaker wants to maintain the floor - and these turns are often associated with particular topics/subjects. :)

And I can't wait to see you around throughout the year. ;D EngLang is a supremely excellent subject, even if it is difficult haha.

Hey, Alexicology! Thanks for posting your introduction. :) Nice handwriting. ;)

Some thoughts:
- As a general rule, I like the first sentence to explicitly introduce the text (so like, "Text A is a transcript of Paul Keating's eulogy..." or whatever).
- I like how you've addressed the context of the piece, the audience, the social purpose, the register (formality), the relationship between Keating and the audience, and the semantic field. These are all very important things to include in the introduction. :) You might also like to think about the mode (spoken or written?) and time period (when did the text take place?).
- To lead into your body paragraphs, you might like to have a sentence like: "The formality of the text/the social purpose of the text is reflected by [whatever subsystems you're discussing]."

Nice job! :)
What kind of reading do you do in englang
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 15, 2017, 05:16:39 pm
What kind of reading do you do in englang

You don't read any books, if that's what you mean. But the language you analyse could come from anywhere: a newspaper article, a television advertisement, fast food wrapping.

That's the nature of English Language: you analyse language in general, and it's not confined to a particular text.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on March 15, 2017, 05:19:56 pm
You don't read any books, if that's what you mean. But the language you analyse could come from anywhere: a newspaper article, a television advertisement, fast food wrapping.

That's the nature of English Language: you analyse language in general, and it's not confined to a particular text.
Oh, ok I see, if I were to change to englang in term 3, would I have to learn anything extra do you think
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 15, 2017, 05:26:35 pm
Oh, ok I see, if I were to change to englang in term 3, would I have to learn anything extra do you think

Term 3 of Year 11? No - you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on March 15, 2017, 05:42:03 pm
Oh, ok I see, if I were to change to englang in term 3, would I have to learn anything extra do you think
Hi Joseph41, I was just wondering if i need to modify my posts each time I have something to add
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 15, 2017, 06:03:09 pm
Hi Joseph41, I was just wondering if i need to modify my posts each time I have something to add

Hi NAT,

It's best to avoid posting twice in a row unnecessarily, so yes, that would be great. :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: NAT0003 on March 15, 2017, 06:18:20 pm
Hi NAT,

It's best to avoid posting twice in a row unnecessarily, so yes, that would be great. :)
Thanks for clarifying
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Alexicology on March 15, 2017, 11:02:48 pm

[quote/]
Hey, Alexicology! Thanks for posting your introduction. :) Nice handwriting. ;)

Some thoughts:
- As a general rule, I like the first sentence to explicitly introduce the text (so like, "Text A is a transcript of Paul Keating's eulogy..." or whatever).
- I like how you've addressed the context of the piece, the audience, the social purpose, the register (formality), the relationship between Keating and the audience, and the semantic field. These are all very important things to include in the introduction. :) You might also like to think about the mode (spoken or written?) and time period (when did the text take place?).
- To lead into your body paragraphs, you might like to have a sentence like: "The formality of the text/the social purpose of the text is reflected by [whatever subsystems you're discussing]."

Nice job! :)
[/quote]

Thank you for giving me feedback

I really appreciate it :)

Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: elaine18 on March 22, 2017, 04:42:03 pm
I am confused on what i am suppose to look for when reading a newspaper article... i found puns used for titles but that's all... could you please explain what newspaper articles i need to look for, for the exam? :) :D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 22, 2017, 05:11:59 pm
I am confused on what i am suppose to look for when reading a newspaper article... i found puns used for titles but that's all... could you please explain what newspaper articles i need to look for, for the exam? :) :D

Hey elaine18,

Welcome to ATAR Notes! ;D

Nice work on the pun front. :) Basically, we're looking for anything at all that's language-related. A good place to start might be the list of relevant metalanguage in the study design (around page 17/18 from memory). Go through that list and see how many features you can find in the newspaper articles - and then, importantly, think about why they were used in the first place. :)

What's the article, out of interest? Maybe we can work on a couple together to get you rolling! ;D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: exit on March 23, 2017, 04:38:33 pm
Does back-channeling attend to the speaker's positive face needs? In what way? What are some features common in spoken discourse that does this?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on March 23, 2017, 09:38:33 pm
I've noticed in many of the VCAA past papers the texts are not provided due to copyright issues. Is there any way around this?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: schoolkid101 on March 25, 2017, 07:09:37 pm
I have had an English tutor for a couple of years now and she is a professional. I think she is good but none of my English results up to now have satisfied me. What should I do?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: AngelWings on March 26, 2017, 03:31:38 pm
I've noticed in many of the VCAA past papers the texts are not provided due to copyright issues. Is there any way around this?
Use the famous Eng Lang green book and other papers. If you're totally adamant in doing VCAA past papers, you should consult your teacher, who should have the copyright to share it for educational purposes only i.e. you can't sell these to anyone afterwards.

I have had an English tutor for a couple of years now and she is a professional. I think she is good but none of my English results up to now have satisfied me. What should I do?
There are two ways you can deal with this:
1. Switch tutors.
2. Consult your teacher and your tutor. Talk with your teacher first. Your teacher at school can help to tell you why you lost marks and why your result is so. Then talk to your tutor. Your tutor isn't a mind reader and doesn't know you're unsatisfied with your English results. They can run over the parts that you didn't receive marks or didn't do so well on.
Random question: is this for English Mainstream or English Language?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on March 27, 2017, 09:33:17 am
I have had an English tutor for a couple of years now and she is a professional. I think she is good but none of my English results up to now have satisfied me. What should I do?

Hey schoolkid101,

Welcome to ATAR Notes! ;D A few preliminary questions:

What year are you in? And is the tutor for English, or English Language? Why do you think your results haven't satisfied you?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: cookiedream on March 27, 2017, 09:31:20 pm
Does back-channeling attend to the speaker's positive face needs? In what way?

In a way it does as it indicates to the speaker that the reader is listening. As a result, it reinforces the speaker's inclusion in the conversation, showing that what they are communicating is being taken into account. Thereby, their positive face needs are met :)

What are some features common in spoken discourse that does this?
It depends on context. But in general, features of spoken discourse which can help appeal to the speaker's positive face needs are (other than back-channelling):
- Adjacency pairs (elicits a response from a speaker, including them)
- Overlap (can indicate unity or shared thought which reinforces someone's inclusion in the conversation or social group, such as in a chat between friends)
- Interrogative tags (asks for confirmation, including the speaker as it shows consideration of their opinion)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Ahmad_A_1999 on April 12, 2017, 03:48:50 pm
Can someone help me distinguish between auxiliaries, modals and copula verbs please.

Also are shortenings considered morphological or lexical and why  :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on April 12, 2017, 04:31:56 pm
Can someone help me distinguish between auxiliaries, modals and copula verbs please.

Also are shortenings considered morphological or lexical and why  :)

Sure - I can try. :) Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense (and I'm happy to be corrected/challenged).

Perhaps the biggest distinction between verb types is that of lexical verbs (so "main verbs" like run, eat, love and so on) and auxiliary verbs. Auxiliary verbs, unlike lexical verbs, provide no lexical content - so no meaning as such.

The auxiliary verb is like a "helper" to the main/lexical verb and, as such, occurs in conjunction with another verb. The auxiliary can provide (mostly grammatical) information, such as modality (essentially likelihood - we'll look at this soon), aspect (whether the verb is ongoing or not) and voice (whether it's active or passive). And there are two main types of auxiliary: the primary auxiliary and the modal auxiliary.

The primary auxiliary (for our purposes, just denoted by "auxiliary") provides important grammatical information. For example:
- I was wondering about the class.
- He has spoken for way too long.
- I do like ice-cream!

I've highlighted the auxiliary in each. Clearly, in each situation, it's not the *main* verb of the sentence (that would be wondering, spoken and like respectively). But without them, the sentences wouldn't really make sense.
- *I wondering about the class.
- *He spoken for way too long.
- *I like ice-cream!

The first two feel grammatically stripped; the third keeps its core meaning, but loses emphasis.

The other type of auxiliary is the modal auxiliary (or for our purposes, the "modal verb"). One of the major functions of these is to denote the implied or actual degree of possibility, likelihood and so on. For example:
- That could be a goer.
- I will do it later.
- I'm going to a party tomorrow; it should be terrible.

This time, I've highlighted the modals. They're again not the *main* verbs (be, do and be respectively), but they indicate hesitancy, absoluteness and then likelihood (or similar).

Modal verbs have historically been paired based on tense (so can/could, may/might, shall/should and so on), but this is less the case these days. The only difference between may and might now, for example, is a slight change in hesitancy. For some speakers, there may (might) be no difference at all. And interestingly, there seem to be some new modals entering the language as we speak.

Copular verbs are different again, and IMO slightly more confusing. Basically, they grammatically connect a subject with a complement. For example:
- Brenden is tall.

Here, without that is, the sentence doesn't make much sense at all; it's a grammatical necessity. The same thing is true in something like "The cake tastes amazing", where taste is acting as the copular.

Does that make sense? :)

EDIT: Whoops, sorry about the long post haha.

EDIT II: To respond to your other question, I think you could probably argue both (because the you're getting rid of morphemes, which is creating new lexemes). What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Ahmad_A_1999 on April 12, 2017, 04:54:24 pm
That is an amazing post Joseph thanks so much!
It will take me a while to decipher this though it is so complicated ;D
and Yes I agree with your point for 'shortenings' I think you could argue both ways.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on April 12, 2017, 05:15:23 pm
That is an amazing post Joseph thanks so much!
It will take me a while to decipher this though it is so complicated ;D
and Yes I agree with your point for 'shortenings' I think you could argue both ways.

Thanks again!

No problem at all! :) Like I say, happy to be corrected on any of that; verb types admittedly isn't my strongest linguistic area.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on April 13, 2017, 07:26:32 pm
What's the difference between an adverb and adverbial? From my understanding, an adverb is a word before an adjective/verb/adverb while an adverbial is a phrase that acts as a adverb. They both have similar functions, in that, they specify the manner of something being done. Is this understanding correct?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: cookiedream on April 14, 2017, 02:51:07 pm
What's the difference between an adverb and adverbial? From my understanding, an adverb is a word before an adjective/verb/adverb while an adverbial is a phrase that acts as a adverb. They both have similar functions, in that, they specify the manner of something being done. Is this understanding correct?

An adverb is anything that describes or modifies a verb, an adjective or another adverb. (exactly what you said)
An adverbial is anything that acts as an adverb.
Therefore, an adverb can technically be an adverbial.

But, an adverbial phrase is anything composed of at least two words which act as an adverb.

So an adverbial isn't always an adverbial phrase. 

Correct me if I'm wrong  ;D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: pianism on April 14, 2017, 04:27:49 pm
Hey peanut!
First off, a wonderful response by cookiedream above – thank you!  :)
I’ve included another explanation of the two terms below if you’re looking for some further clarification:

An adverbial refers to a phrase that provides more information concerning the time, place, manner and frequency – note these phrases are optional. One key feature of an adverbial is that it can be moved around the sentence.

For instance, consider the declarative below:
The child read his novel on Monday.
^ The prepositional unit “on Monday” can be moved around the sentence to create: “On Monday, the child read his novel.”

An adverb can modify a verb – e.g. to beautifully sing, an adjective – a very nice cake, other adverbs – he spoke exceptionally quickly or entire phrases – Suddenly, the child heard a knocking at the door. Adverbs aren’t flexible grammatical units – they must remain attached to the verb/adjective, etc. they are modifying.

Hopefully this post helped – please feel free to correct if there are any errors/lack of clarification.
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Ahmad_A_1999 on April 16, 2017, 10:38:29 pm
Hey guys, I am currently writing my first practice essay of the year, and I have not written an essay in so long  :( and I am absolutely terrible at this  :D

The prompt is 'Slang and swearing are essential in maintaining relationships. To what extent do you agree?'

I haven't yet addressed the 'what extent do you agree part' I'm currently planning my first body paragraph on how swearing maintains said relationships. I was just wondering if I am allowed to give 3 examples in the one paragraph, that is:

- Talk about Donald Trump and how his use of swearing maintains a relationship with the american population as it is relatable and studies show that it makes a person trustworthy etc. and go into depth there.
- Then I want to talk about swearing on a smaller scale between friends and how terms such as 'd***head' can be used as a term of endearment and build rapport. 
- Then perhaps talk about swearing promoting intimacy (not sure how this exactly maintains relationships other than sexual :/ )

Am I able to do this?

Also any other tips and comments are greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: cookiedream on April 17, 2017, 11:25:53 am
Hey guys, I am currently writing my first practice essay of the year, and I have not written an essay in so long  :( and I am absolutely terrible at this  :D

The prompt is 'Slang and swearing are essential in maintaining relationships. To what extent do you agree?'

I haven't yet addressed the 'what extent do you agree part' I'm currently planning my first body paragraph on how swearing maintains said relationships. I was just wondering if I am allowed to give 3 examples in the one paragraph, that is:

- Talk about Donald Trump and how his use of swearing maintains a relationship with the american population as it is relatable and studies show that it makes a person trustworthy etc. and go into depth there.
- Then I want to talk about swearing on a smaller scale between friends and how terms such as 'd***head' can be used as a term of endearment and build rapport. 
- Then perhaps talk about swearing promoting intimacy (not sure how this exactly maintains relationships other than sexual :/ )

Am I able to do this?

Also any other tips and comments are greatly appreciated!

You have some good points! Just remember that because the question stem asked about slang as well as swearing, you should include an example about slang, particularly Australian slang.
I think the essays on the vcaa examination reports have around 3-4 examples per paragraph.
Just remember to link back to your topic sentence and/or contention when you're explaining your examples so you can have a solid paragraph :)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Ahmad_A_1999 on April 17, 2017, 12:29:19 pm
You have some good points! Just remember that because the question stem asked about slang as well as swearing, you should include an example about slang, particularly Australian slang.
I think the essays on the vcaa examination reports have around 3-4 examples per paragraph.
Just remember to link back to your topic sentence and/or contention when you're explaining your examples so you can have a solid paragraph :)

Sweet, thanks man!
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on April 17, 2017, 12:46:46 pm
Hey guys, I am currently writing my first practice essay of the year, and I have not written an essay in so long  :( and I am absolutely terrible at this  :D

The prompt is 'Slang and swearing are essential in maintaining relationships. To what extent do you agree?'

I haven't yet addressed the 'what extent do you agree part' I'm currently planning my first body paragraph on how swearing maintains said relationships. I was just wondering if I am allowed to give 3 examples in the one paragraph, that is:

- Talk about Donald Trump and how his use of swearing maintains a relationship with the american population as it is relatable and studies show that it makes a person trustworthy etc. and go into depth there.
- Then I want to talk about swearing on a smaller scale between friends and how terms such as 'd***head' can be used as a term of endearment and build rapport. 
- Then perhaps talk about swearing promoting intimacy (not sure how this exactly maintains relationships other than sexual :/ )

Am I able to do this?

Also any other tips and comments are greatly appreciated!

Hey Ahmad!

What have you been focusing in class thus far, out of interest? Content? Other metalanguage? Analytical commentaries? Short-answer response?

IMO the first step to writing a good EngLang essay is believing that you can write a good EngLang essay. If you go in thinking, "well, this will probably be terrible," it may well be! Even from your posts on this board this year, I know you have a sound understanding of a lot of linguisticy things, so I'm sure you'll be absolutely fine. :)

Anyway, to address your actual points:

I think three examples in one paragraph is totally fine, on the assumption that they're somewhat related and addressing the same (or a similar) overall point/theme. So with your examples:

- When did Donald Trump swear, out of interest (I have no doubt that he did - just wondering which example(s) you're planning to use)? It's a good example, but if at all possible, I'd probably use an Australian example; has there been anything similar with Turnbull and/or Shorten? Or any other current political figure in Australia?
- I think your second point is very solid. :) Interesting that you censored dickhead, though!
- The third point seems to me to seep into the second one; if you're going for distinct points, I think these two need to be differentiated somehow. Maybe you could speak explicitly about how swearing can go some way to building in-group membership?

:)
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Ahmad_A_1999 on April 17, 2017, 03:42:42 pm
Hey Ahmad!

What have you been focusing in class thus far, out of interest? Content? Other metalanguage? Analytical commentaries? Short-answer response?

IMO the first step to writing a good EngLang essay is believing that you can write a good EngLang essay. If you go in thinking, "well, this will probably be terrible," it may well be! Even from your posts on this board this year, I know you have a sound understanding of a lot of linguisticy things, so I'm sure you'll be absolutely fine. :)

Anyway, to address your actual points:

I think three examples in one paragraph is totally fine, on the assumption that they're somewhat related and addressing the same (or a similar) overall point/theme. So with your examples:

- When did Donald Trump swear, out of interest (I have no doubt that he did - just wondering which example(s) you're planning to use)? It's a good example, but if at all possible, I'd probably use an Australian example; has there been anything similar with Turnbull and/or Shorten? Or any other current political figure in Australia?
- I think your second point is very solid. :) Interesting that you censored dickhead, though!
- The third point seems to me to seep into the second one; if you're going for distinct points, I think these two need to be differentiated somehow. Maybe you could speak explicitly about how swearing can go some way to building in-group membership?

:)

Hey Joseph, thanks for the reply!  :)

So far in class we have covered informal language, although I am a bit worried to be honest as I mainly have colloquialisms, slang and swearing forming the basis of my notes, is this normal?  :( We are starting formal language term 2.

As for Donald Trump the examples I have in my cuttings journal include:
"Bomb the shit out of ISIS"
"Listen, you motherf*****s we are going to tax you 25%" in regards to a trade with China of some sort.
"It's political bullshit"

I don't really know anything about Australian politics unfortunately, I'm going to make an effort to learn about it over the year though. (I didn't even know the current prime minister for a while  :P )
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: exit on May 23, 2017, 08:54:13 am
Is a cataphoric reference a form of substitution?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: cookiedream on May 23, 2017, 09:00:08 pm
Is a cataphoric reference a form of substitution?
Yep, in fact both cataphoric and anaphoric are forms of substitution ;D
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: peanut on June 06, 2017, 09:50:42 pm
Would you say that sentence fragments reduce the formality of a text (both written and spoken)?
Title: Re: Looking toward 2017: ask your English Language questions here
Post by: Joseph41 on June 07, 2017, 09:01:40 am
Would you say that sentence fragments reduce the formality of a text (both written and spoken)?

I most certainly would. :)

EDIT: Because sentence fragments deviate from Standard English.