ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE English Studies => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Literature => Topic started by: Snow Leopard on October 27, 2019, 09:05:58 pm
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I can definitely understand the dilemma that you're in! When I was in year 10, I was tossing up between VCE English and Literature. The decision was so difficult that I ended up choosing both ;D
Given your situation, however, I'd suggest that you wait until Headstart and just see how you like the class. Try not to focus on whether you'll get a better score for Lit v English. The important thing is to determine if the style of VCE Literature is well suited to your writing ability. Part of the reason I did better at English was because I preferred the structure of the individual writing pieces. Literature was more flexible, which often threw me off a bit.
Good luck :)
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Hey guys,
So, for subject selections, I choose Literarture, but I'm really indecisive about my choice now.
I kinda feel like I should've gone with English because I feel like I put 5 times as much effort into Lit (intro to VCE Lit for Yr 10), yet I don't get the best marks (not the best, but not the worst either). Though, I can't really compare my marks cos I got roughly the same marks last semester for mainstream English.
The date for making changes was this Wednesday and since we have headstart I can always see what Lit is like and then possibly change into VCE English. But I'm really indecisive like I said before cos like what if the spaces are all filled for VCE English and then I'm stuck in VCE Lit for Unit 1.
But then again: I do enjoy reading and I have quite a while to improve before Yr 12.
Overall, I choose Literature for Yr 11 next year, but I'm wondering whether I should try to change it now to VCE English rather than wait until Headstart because I feel like I put so much more effort into it and still don't get the best marks in it.
Plz help me!
Hi there!
I was in a similar boat earlier on in the year. I dropped Literature after Unit 1 because I had the same thoughts you're having. I liked the subject itself (as in the content) because I, too enjoy reading and I just loved how the subject prompts deeper and more complex ways of thinking. Unlike English where the focus is on the plot (correct me if I'm wrong), Lit is more concerned with symbolism, context and the behind the scenes essentially. So you can be creative in that sense because there's less of a strict structure but like clarke54321, I prefer having that structure with English essays. In the very anxious process of deciding whether to drop the subject or not, I also had a look at the examination reports and my lord, people are gifted. I just don't think I can write in the way high-scoring responses are written. I know this is not a good thing to do, because I was comparing my skills at the time to my prediction of my abilities in a year's time where all that time in between would be spent practising and refining my skills so keep that in mind. Also, I know you're picking between the two, but it's worth mentioning that Lit helped me out a lot with English in terms of my writing skills like using sophisticated vocab. Like you, I was getting meh marks and they weren't as high as I wanted. I remember I was so dedicated to improving my marks because I like a challenge every now and then but I just sort of realised that there was no need to put myself through that stress when I could pick up another subject that still interests me but is less demanding and I can excel at. Afterall, Lit only scales up by one and I KNOW you shouldn't worry about scaling but I did. The competition is also very high in Lit. Personally, I knew it would be best for me to drop the subject just so that I can alleviate some of the stress next year but hey if you really enjoy the subject, I think you should stick to it because if you really want to do well in a subject and you put the effort in, your hard work will pay off. Sorry for the long reply haha, please remember that this is just my personal experience and my experience with Lit was short-lived so I'm not super informed on it. See how Headstart plays out and talk to your teachers and other students who did the subject.
Best of luck :)
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Thanks so much for the advice clarke54321 and tigerclouds1. Would it change your view of whether I should choose Eng or Lit, if I said that I too like structure?
But also in the assessments this semester (in lit intro class), I feel like I never follow the structure provided for us, I just kinda write.
2. Also, since I'm gonna do Bio, chem, methods, one lote 3/4, another lote 1/2, do you think I'd be able to balance everything?
Adding on from this, I'm kinda a mathsy/sciency person, and my current teacher who teaches Lit in VCE said my writing is a bit mechanical. She said this wasn't a huge issue and isn't really something I can fix.
3. But do you reckon my writing style is better suited for Lit or Eng?
sos for all the questions and I'd really appreciate any one's insight into this!
In all honesty, I don't think I'm in the right position to advise you on exactly what to choose. I'm only speaking from personal experience. Your subjects are content-heavy so you need to ask yourself if you are willing to handle that little extra push that comes with Lit. Regardless, if you like the subject and you're ready to put the effort in, then you might go for it. It all comes down to your self-awareness and doing what you think is right and beneficial for you :)
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One last question :D: how much extra effort would I have to put into Literature to do well in it compared with English?
Haha, again, I wouldn't know because I didn't do the subject for very long. Please ask your teachers.
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Hey Snow Leopard! I thought I’d offer my two cents. I only did Unit 2 English but I hope this can give you some more info.
1. Would it change your view of whether I should choose Eng or Lit, if I said that I too like structure?
A bit. Literature has that scope of creative freedom and a lot of students who are strong in English find themselves a bit lost when they have to write lit essays. But the common misconception is that literature has NO structure — this is false!! You have structure in lit as well, you just choose your own.
2. Also, since I'm gonna do Bio, chem, methods, one lote 3/4, another lote 1/2, do you think I'd be able to balance everything?
I guess that depends on yourself. When I did lit (3/4), I did it alongside SIX other subjects (dance 3/4, bio, psych, further, methods, and music/English) but I found it overall to be quite manageable.
Adding on from this, I'm kinda a mathsy/sciency person, and my current teacher who teaches Lit in VCE said my writing is a bit mechanical. She said this wasn't a huge issue and isn't really something I can fix.
Honestly a lot of students have this problem, even the ‘artsy/humanities’ people. But it really is something you can fix, just not in the short term. Since you’re in year 10, you have about 2 years to improve!
3. But do you reckon my writing style is better suited for Lit or Eng?
See my response to the first question. But overall I don’t think anyone can be PERFECTLY suited for one or the other, it’s all about how much effort you’re willing to put in.
One last question : how much extra effort would I have to put into Literature to do well in it compared with English?
Subjective. I personally found lit easier, someone else may say otherwise.
Hope that helps a bit! xx
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Did your marks drastically improve from what you were getting in Lit, if you don't mind telling me?
Hi! Do you mean from Lit to my new subject? If so, for sure! I transferred into Psych which suited my interests so much more and was so much easier in my opinion so I was able to do really well. I went from getting around As and B+s for Lit to getting full marks in Psych (with a few As).
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Hi! Do you mean from Lit to my new subject? If so, for sure! I transferred into Psych which suited my interests so much more and was so much easier in my opinion so I was able to do really well. I went from getting around As and B+s for Lit to getting full marks in Psych (with a few As).
Hello! Did you do both Lit and Eng for Unit 1? If so, were you always getting better marks in English compared to Unit 1 Lit?
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Hey Snow Leopard, thought I’d offer my two cents:
I feel like I would do better in English because I feel like in Literature you literally have to know your novels/texts inside out, have annotated them extremely well and are very familiar with those literary devices/views and values etc in order to do well.
Hm, I think this would apply to English as well. I highly doubt you’d be able to get a 45+ in ANY subject if you don’t know the content inside out.
the times my teacher has given me feedback, the things that she would tick twice (really like, therefore give a higher mark) were not things that I had picked up on myself, but had actually searched up and gotten that idea from other internet sources
I don’t think this is too problematic. No one is expecting a high school student to suddenly have an epiphany and come up with totally new and groundbreaking analysis for a text scholars have been scrutinising for years, decades, or even centuries (though if you did that wouldn’t hurt). Analysing texts come with practice and extensive reading.
Pro's of Lit
- I enjoy reading and writing
- Word limit is higher (I tend to write a lot in Assessments)
- I enjoy discussing views and values
I think enjoying reading and writing is a pro for both lit and mainstream. Honestly, you’d probably be doing more writing in mainstream as the final exam has 3 essays, while the lit exam only has 2. Regarding word limit, while it’s great to write a lot, make sure to prioritise quality over quantity.
Con's of Lit
- The teacher is a really harsh marker
- My vocab ain't that great
Harsh marker really isn’t a detriment, if anything a teacher who has a sharp eye for areas of improvement is EXACTLY what you want!
Vocab - I think this would apply to both english and lit. I don’t think there’s a criteria in english which states you can use less sophisticated vocab. Finally, a lot of literature students have extensive vocab but their essays just sound as if they vomited out a thesaurus. You’re marked on how well and how effectively you convey your ideas and sometimes having sophisticated vocabulary could actually work against you.
Cons of English
- More people in the state do it, so it could also be really hard to do well in it
That means there are also more spots for 40+’s ;)
- Most people in the class are doing it cos it's compulsory, therefore they're less motivated and more likely to be distracting
…
Plus, Literature is going to be so much more competitive and the environment isn't going to be as quiet as a Lit class would normally be cos we're gonna have pretty rowdy people in that class.
IMO, you shouldn’t worry too much about the attitude and skills of people around you. Just focus on your strengths and weaknesses and see which subject would suit you more.
Also, just wondering for current/ past lit students, do you feel like a literary perspectives essay is easier than a passage analysis essay?
I feel like literary perspectives is easier because you have less to discuss. Like really your talking about the views and values of a text and using literary criticism to back up what your saying alongside literary devices. Whereas passage analysis, you have to discuss literary devices, views and values plus make comparisons between the passages all in the same paragraph.
I definitely would not say that there is less to discuss in literary perspectives. If anything, it’s the opposite. In lit perspectives, you not only have to analyse the passage given but you must also go into far more detail regarding the particular lens you chose. I personally found close passage analysis to be easier, because lit perspectives is a completely new form of assessment and also required so much more research into academic sources.
Hope this helps! :D
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Hello! Did you do both Lit and Eng for Unit 1? If so, were you always getting better marks in English compared to Unit 1 Lit?
Yes, I did do both and yeah my marks for English tended to be higher than Lit.
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Thanks again for your amazing advice colline. Wait for Literary Perspectives do you also have to analyse passages, or did you mean the prior analyzing that you do when you study the text ? In that sort of assessment that we did for an intro to VCE Lit (Sem 2 Yr 10) we were allowed to have a quote sheet with 15 quotes (both from the novel and literary criticisms) and were given a prompt to write with, but no direct passages to analyse.
No worries! :)
For lit perspectives you will do plenty of analysing both as preparation and for the actual assessment. You’re essentially doing the critiquing on top of close passage analysis.
Your teacher may let you have a quote sheet for internal SACs but on the final exam you won’t be allowed one. You will just be given one prompt.
You won’t be given direct passages to analyse because you’re expected to have quotes, critiques, and major points of analysis memorised.
Put simply:
Section B (CPA) - close passage analysis (with references given)
Section A (LP) - critique AND analysis (without references)
So going back to your original question, literary perspectives is definitely not the less content-heavy of the two. ;)
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I think you should give lit a try and see how it goes :)
In year 10 when I was deciding whether I wanted to do 3/4 lit in year 11 without 1/2, or just do mainstream English in year 12, I was very worried of lit's unprecedented reputation and thought maybe it would drag down my other subjects. Honestly, choosing lit ended up being one of the best decisions I made for VCE. So I encourage you to try it and decide for yourself. Give yourself a challenge. ;)
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I think you should give lit a try and see how it goes :)
In year 10 when I was deciding whether I wanted to do 3/4 lit in year 11 without 1/2, or just do mainstream English in year 12, I was very worried of lit's unprecedented reputation and thought maybe it would drag down my other subjects. Honestly, choosing lit ended up being one of the best decisions I made for VCE. So I encourage you to try it and decide for yourself. Give yourself a challenge. ;)
Thanks again for all of your advice. Even though the deadline for subject changes has now changed to this Monday midday, I've decided to stick with Lit for at least Unit 1 and see how it goes. I'll try to stop thinking about whether I should've went to mainstream and instead focus on doing my best.
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How do you feel about the assessments in literature versus mainstream English? Specifically, which do you think your writing style suits more? I think this is the most important factor to consider if you are trying to decide between the two.
Also, what kind of feedback are you getting for your literature SACs? For example, are they mostly targeted towards your analysis, or your arguments, or maybe writing structure and style, or something else entirely?
is doing well in English in Yr 12 less time consuming than doing well in Lit?
This depends on the individual. Honestly from an assessment/exam POV English should be more time consuming as there are more assessments, and you must learn 3 essay styles for the exam as opposed to two in lit.
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The first SAC we did was an Oral, but it was recorded as opposed to being presented in class so I didn't really memorise it (I wanted too, but of course I was too stupidly lazy to and ended up doing it last minute). The feedback in terms of what to improve on included the tone of my voice and intonation.
The second SAC we did was a Lit perspectives essay on a film. The feedback for what to improve on included: building an interpretation of the text and which was mostly balanced with my understanding of literary criticism (not sure why this was mostly and not completely). Strengthening my analysis even further by including more discussion of film techniques.
For what it's worth, the oral is a negligible assessment in unit 3/4. At my school it was worth only 10% of an overall creative SAC. A lot of schools don't assess it at all as long as you turn something in. I couldn't be bothered memorising my oral either
Literary perspectives is really difficult so don't worry if you find yourself struggling with it, especially in 1/2. It's a completely new type of assessment which most students wouldn't have seen previously. Building a strong interpretation requires extensive reading and researching, not to mention time and practice.
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- I've actually gotten a few good grades in English last year in semester 1 whereas in Literature I feel like no matter how hard I do try I'm always stuck in the same grade boundary. (btw, with both Eng and Lit, when I say try I mean my usual last minute cramming)
Since I don't know the details like your actual writing style etc, I can only make guesses here - maybe you're writing the same type of essays for both English AND Literature? I did 1/2 mainstream English alongside Literature and I noticed when I write the same style of essays for both subjects, I'd get a great score in one but only a mediocre score in the other.
- I like structure
I mean, it's not like literature has no structure. You're still required to present your ideas in a logical method and everything. You just don't need to strictly follow the ENGLISH structure which has been drilled into all of us since year 7. That said, if you enjoy writing according to the English structure, then literature might not be as suitable.
- I'm (usually) decent at Oral presentations and they're worth way more in English compared to Literature
Yeah, the oral in Literature is worth next to nothing hahah.
Have you tried having a chat to your Literature and English teachers at school about your thoughts towards both subjects and what you can do to improve? They'll definitely give better suggestions than me since they've actually read your work.
Also, I don't know what VCE subjects you're doing but have you thought about what to pick up IF you were to drop literature? Or are you doing 7 subjects atm?
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If I dropped Lit, then I would pick English (I'm only doing literature atm). Yeah, I am doing 7 VCE subjects: methods, biology, chemistry, a lote 1/2, a lote 3/4, religion and society and literature.
Ah I see. Sorry, I thought you were doing both.
Just wondering, are you planning on doing all 7 subjects or will you be dropping one next year? You seem to have quite a heavy workload.
Anyway, as I said before I think your best course of action is to talk to your lit teacher. You can also try sending your essays to your school's English teachers and ask them whether your writing style would be better suited for mainstream English.
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Thank you so much for all of your help colline! I've finally decided to switch to mainstream English since I don't have the "flair" of writing which you apparently need for Lit. Plus I much prefer the rigider structure in English.
Anyways, one last question, how much would this "flair" be needed in English as well?
Not entirely sure what you mean by 'flair'. Both English subjects require the ability to clearly and concisely write, as well as follow appropriate conventions of grammar and syntax whilst also maintaining good expression. If this is what you mean by 'flair', then yes, you need this in mainstream English as well. Perhaps not the same type of 'flair' as is in literature (I have not done this subject), but 'flair' nonetheless. This is definitely something you can improve over time with repeated feedback and integration of this feedback, so don't worry too much - it comes with practice. It is important to be able to express your ideas and analysis well in both subjects - maybe literature has different demands that I am not aware of - but be aware that both subjects do require developed writing skills. Hope this helps :)
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Thank you so much for all of your help colline! I've finally decided to switch to mainstream English since I don't have the "flair" of writing which you apparently need for Lit. Plus I much prefer the rigider structure in English.
Anyways, one last question, how much would this "flair" be needed in English as well?
No worries :))
I've never done English 3/4, so I cannot speak from personal experience. Anyway, the "flair" of writing is honestly so arbitrary. TBH, I wouldn't put too much weight on it. Regardless of whether you choose English or Lit, the main thing is making sure you thoroughly understand the text, the background, the writing criteria, and do a lot of practice.
ETA - I have a friend who did English mainstream, and he has a very unique and very bold style of writing. Anyway, his English teacher said he has a 'flair' for writing but still told him to refrain from writing in his own style for VCE - so he followed the conventional writing style and got a really high SS Later in university he wrote all of his essay in his own style and did incredibly well. The point I'm trying to make is, the writing you do in VCE is quite strictly methodological. Having a 'flair' for writing isn't necessarily an advantage.
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I meant more like a well-flowing/poetic/creative type of writing. Whereas my writing is a lot more structured, rigid and doesn't flow as well.
Flow is really important. Poetic on the other hand... eh, not really. At least, the trend I picked up on in both English and Literature is that students with really flowery writing don't necessarily do better - in fact, it's actually those who write in a straight-forward and concise manner that score higher.
(Also see my ETA above. Basically, you kind of have to follow a strict system of writing VCE. You need to make sure your essay is logical, well-presented, and has adequate evidence to back up whatever argument(s) you're making. Anything else is secondary).