how do you (personally) deal with insecurity surrounding your intelligence?(vce)

[jmas123456]

hi atarnotes forum users! 

this is my first true topic post on the website! sorry if my grammar is very informal, i hope it is still easily comprehended by all of you... if this question has already been answered elsewhere, id love to receive a link. id be really interested to read it.
for some context (if wanting some), i am a year 11 vce student accelerating biology this year. for future study, i would be thrilled to be accepted admission into a university to study a degree in something science/law based. my other subjects this year (all 1&2)include chemistry, chinese second language, psychology, methods and english. next year in y12, i am studying chem, chinese, psych, further and english. my atar expectations are high, i hope to achieve an atar of at least 80. my ideal atar score is around 90+... which is v unrealistic i know hahahah

   i am aware the year has hardly started and that year 11 can be quite a turbulent time for students to maneuver (increased workload/expectations/responsibilities), and 1&2 marks dont directly sway your atar. but despite my conscious knowledge of these facts, i am feeling massively insecure about my intelligence. i have felt this way for the past 20 weeks-ish.

   i go to a school where many students are exceptionally intelligent (in my opinion it is quite evident) and i feel quite a bit of personal pressure to keep up this year. throughout my primary years all the way to year 10, i never really had to study at all to achieve all as, or almost all as, in every subject i attempted... i think this is also part of the problem; i do not have distinct/refined study habits. the lack of study habits is also attributed to average 15+ hrs of sport a week, along with work etc. which cannot continue to be excuses  .

   i have begun to study consciously most nights, and even with achieving B-A grades (with methods as exception), i feel worthless in school, feeling that my outlook is very bleak, despite consciously knowing that the way i feel is very... roundabout to say the least. i feel like i cant achieve my goals at this rate. the constant comparison, along with the feeling that i am lacking in reaching my full potential almost feels crushing? others in my classes seem to be doing much better than me in everything; achieving better grades, having better social lives, etc. i am happy for them! most of these people are dear friends, and are super lovely and deserving of their grades! but i just worry that i am being left behind... is this selfish of me? for example, in biology, i have a low A (around 80%) sac average right now, but i feel that the rest of the accelerators (around 5-7) in the class from what ive heard are doing much better, with closer to 90% averages.

   or another prime example; methods. methods has become very painful; obtaining a D average in unit 1, and failing the exam by a mile in the subject, since i do not have a strong algebra background(my y10 set me up for general, rather than methods, i did go to the careers office to discuss methods as a subject in year 9, so im not sure how that all pans out, i really love my careers dept! its mostly my fault for being dumb hahahaah, its a long story). my grades in that subject are very disappointing to me, and kind of shocking. i did study, and even got a tudor on my volition early on, yet achieved nothing and am still as lost as i previously was... im not sure what to expect going into unit2, but i am putting in a lot of work early... i hope it pays off. we are doing chp16, 17 and 20 currently, and it is wk4 into my term 3. the point to me bringing this up is... i feel extremely useless. my grades in this subject crushed emotionally, even though i consciously or logically know school isnt the be all end all, i clearly do not truly believe it fully on a cognitive application level.

   i previously considered a biomedical undergraduate degree as my goal, and something i was extremely driven to achieve. it was my dream. i am still working towards that possibility, but with methods as something i am not completing in y12, undergrad biomed in most places is tough luck in terms of admission for right after graduation. of course i can do an abridging course which contains a methods 3&4 equivalent, but i am doubting my capabilities big time. "would i even be able to do it in the end?" is what i keep relaying to myself. 

has anyone felt the same way, or can relate to my situation? and possibly provide some advice on how to get out of this rut?
or otherwise, does anyone have any tips to increase productivity and motivation?
e.g. specific study tips, a certain type of schedule, resources etc.
is this feeling going to be solved by actually becoming competent?
or is it something solved by other means in your opinion?
or can someone slap me with a bit of reality so i can stop being ungrateful hahahaha

i realise this post has converted itself into a "vent" post that most people will just skip over!
for most reading this (almost all), my lack of experience will be painful. there is so much i am yet to learn and experience within life and vce, along w future study!
if you are reading this far, thank you for even considering this post

and yes, i have looked elsewhere on the net to view this topic matter, but i dont relate to it at all
i wonder if this post will have any views, or any responses hahahahah 

so...to collate my text,
  how do you (personally) deal with or overcome insecurity surrounding your intellectual capabilties?

i wish the best to all of you! feel free to comment your own experiences/advice etc.
i have undoubtedly benefited from many atarnotes forums, due to the participation of this cool community.

all the best
jm    ✫彡   

update(!): THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i didnt think my post was going to get any views/replies, but ive written down pages of advice in my notebook of tips and advice ive been given! im so relieved that this isnt a weird feeling that im alone in. thank you for the help. ill be looking to implement them in coming weeks and i hope others reading this thread who can relate gain some advice and reassurance also! if you are feeling a similar way to me then please read some of these great replies below; i guarantee they will help 

[CorkedBoard]

Hey there,

I totally know how you feel there! I go to a school as well where many students are extremely high achievers and yeah, it can be pretty daunting if you’re not always up there. But I’ve got one phrase which really helped me get back up - ‘Keep moving forward’.

Yes, there are times where I haven’t done so well. Even in Year 12, I’ve got B’s in classes where all my best friends are averaging 95%+. But you have to remember, it’s not because of your intelligence. It’s just if you study in an intelligent way.

To give you an example, this year in Methods I got an appalling score compared to how much I studied. Yes, whilst I did get depressed and felt like there was no way I could do better, I didn’t just sit around and moan. Instead, I decided to study smart, doing only 8 exam questions a day in the leadup to the next sac. And, in fact, it truly paid off.
So, it really isn’t up to your intelligence, its more that studying smarter is being more intelligent

And, yeah, I know the pressure when it comes to comparing scores. Whilst you may be upset that a select few may be doing better than you, you probably have no idea how many people in your school (or even the state) you did better than. That’s why I personally don’t like comparing scores with others. It can be really bad for mental health if you keep on thinking about grades. Just do your best and all we be well

So yep, you just need to ‘keep moving forward’, keep being focused on your end goal, and I’m sure you’ll be all fine )))

[mabajas76]

First off, the most serious issue, how do u get that cool star thing???
-_('.')_-Oh I think I got it lol.
Anyway here is my story and how I dealt with it/learned to be more confident but also less arrogent. This did end up being a bit of a rant so sorry if it makes no sense/ feel free to ignore I am severly sleep deprived:
So going into year 7/8 i was ur sterotypical kid who thought he was super smart cause he was in primary school. Anyway got into high school and the school had implemented a new math programm which replaced normal textbook stuff called math pathways. Basically u do some diagnostic tests, then get given what level ur at and u can do as many modules (basically an excersize from the textbook) as u want. The thing was with everyone at different level, u had 25 kids all doing different things from division to probability to algebra, geometry, proofs etc. And I got really into it, by the time they stopped it in year 8, I had finished the victorian ciriculum up to half way into 10A stuff. Anyway during year 8 I had been asking/fighting with the math department  to let me into accelerated math, which would of let me skip year 9 math cause I had already done it and thought I was way beyond it. Anyway one more thing about the programm is that the way it grades tests is the stupidest thing ever, lets say u did 8 modules in 2 weeks. Ur test will give u 1-4 questions on each module. But if u get 1 question wrong, then ur entire module is disqualified. And the accuracy is based on the number of modules u passed. So if i did 8 modules, 2 times the amout we were meant to (I usually did more), and there werw 24 questions, (3 each) and I got 20/24, I would get 50%.... And that is why I didn't get in. I could do 16 modules, all of them years above me, the teacher could never help me cause she was too busy/dumb and even tho I could pass like 6 of them, they would be like why u fail???
Anyway so heading into year 9 I was severly depressed, there was a meeting and I was quite literally told I was too stupid to do it and was feeling like a complete abject failure. I was in an enrichment class but I felt like  acomplete fraud and honestly just kinda fell apart that year, I averaged like 60 in math (that was like top of the class but still was devestating for me.) Anyway so yeah I slowely learned to accept that no I am not super smart, and I understand u may think this is unrelated to ur issue but hear me out on my main contention.
The feeling of inferiority or that your a fraud comes from the previous world view that you were really smart.

I don't know you and I am probably way wrong but let me explain. I know alot of the kids in the accelerated class, and what I found out was once they joined the class and found themselves mediocre compared to others, many of them fell apart. They refused to accept that they were not the smartest and so subconsciously they pretended to not care and not try cause they were clinging to the belief that they were beyond the subject. This is kind of the same to imposter syndrome tho isn't it? Someone who feels seperate from the crown which stems from some false world view that they r more dumb/smart than anyone else. If u truly wish to stop feeling like u particulary r the one person who is a fake u need to learn to accept that true intelligence comes from the effort you put in. Those habits u were talking about r what r letting u down. U need to learn how to study in a way that works for u and most importantly ask ur teacher questions. I learned to be humble and began to just have fun in class doing the work, asking my teacher questions and just trying to put myself out there.

U previously had no work habits, and held the belief that u didn't need to study like many other people at ur school but unfortunately that doesn't last forever. And u r now at a critical point where u need to choose what person and student u r:

Will u accept that in the end, the grade u get will eventually reflect the work u put in, and will u look at those doing better than u with the hope that eventually, with enough work, that u CAN surpass them and take pride and joy in what u do and learn.
Or will u accept that in the end you are just too dumb and their is nothing that can be done and so u may as well as give up (not really my cup of tea as far as mindsets go).
So in summary, somebody who thinks they don't need to work to do well and then finds themselves working doesn't realize that other people r also prob sturggling and they try to cling to a time when they could just fly through content without worry. I learned to accept that I wasn't as smart as some of the others and so began to engage myself in the actual content, asked questions, made some more friends who r more intelligent than myself and have always strived to surpass them. Anyway yeah in the end, its up to u whether u r gonna continue to feel like somehow only u r struggling(this mindset may come from previous feeling that only u were smart) or if u r gonna accept that there r people who r better than u, and that u will strive to be as good as them.

[lm21074]

Hello and welcome to the forum! Great to have you here

It's really common for your grades to drop as the expectations of school change when you move from pre-VCE to VCE, and to question your abilities during this time. It is normal. You are not alone. In fact, as a Year 12 student, I still sometimes fall into the trap of comparing myself to others, and end up feeling worthless. It is tough knowing that you aren't doing as well as you would've liked, especially in a setting like VCE.

Like others have said, one of the strategies I've found to deal with this was to not share marks at all, and block out the noise of the whole "What did you get?" saga. Teachers at my school encourage us not to share marks with others so that we don't compare, and whilst the comparison and competitiveness will probably always be there, I think it's helpful to try to manage the things that could manifest into comparison so it's less likely you'll fall into the trap. Also, something I like to ask myself when I find myself falling into the trap of comparison is, "Is the thought true?" and if the answer to that is yes, "Is it helpful?". For the majority of times, the answer to the latter question is a resounding no. We can't really control our thoughts, because it's like scratching a mosquito bite to relieve the itch, only for the mosquito bite to become itchier. But I personally find it helpful to sing the thought in my mind to tune of "row, row, row your boat" or tell myself something like, "That's the I'm-not-good-enough-compared-to-this-person-who-did-better-in-the-SAC-than-me story."

I think it can also be helpful to speak with your teachers about improving and getting specific feedback from them. For instance, I didn't do too great on a bio SAC this year, and I spoke to my teacher who said I should practice doing longer Checkpoints questions to help with the wordy questions. Your teachers are there to help you learn and improve It is worth noting that your raw SAC marks aren't the be-all and end-all as you'll find that these are moderated according to many different factors, which you can read about here. Your exam performance also counts towards your study score. Additionally, getting good results in VCE isn't really about natural intelligence but more about hard work. Oftentimes, the targeted effort you put in will be reflected in your results. Sometimes we can have setbacks where the effort we put in doesn't equate to the results, and this is where it is really important to seek out as much feedback as you can and learn from it.

With methods, I was also one of the ones who did 1&2 in Year 11 and then dropped it for Year 12. Like you've said, Year 10 maths isn't really preparation for methods. Even without methods, you can still achieve your study goals. You could always take science (or another course), do the methods equivalent at uni if you feel up to it and transfer, or do science and law and take similar units to the core biomed ones in the science component, or even do biomed at another uni if that's something you're interested in. I'd encourage you to start (casually) browsing uni websites and the VTAC CourseSearch to get a more refined picture of what you're interested in and where what you want to do is offered.

Your ATAR is like a key to enter a door - the key you get can unlock many different doors. Sometimes, to get the key to go through the door you want to go through initially, you might need to go through another door first. It can take a little bit longer to get to your destination this way, but you'll learn a lot along the way. Someone I know who got a <30 ATAR is graduating from their teaching degree this year after getting some life experience along the way, which they think has made them a better teacher, learning to deal with people and life a bit better rather than going straight to uni and then back in the classroom again.


It's difficult to deal with the pressure to achieve certain grades and the feeling of not living up to your potential. I would really recommend speaking to a school counsellor or having a chat to another wellbeing service like Kids Helpline - they can provide some great tips on how to deal with these feelings and are trained to listen. Seeing as you're in Year 11, it might be helpful to use this time to experiment with different study techniques and what works for you. Here on the forum, we have many articles and posts on study tips by past students who have achieved success in their studies. A great place to start is this database of AN articles.


Keep at it, jm! You can do this

[jmas123456]

So yep, you just need to ‘keep moving forward’, keep being focused on your end goal, and I’m sure you’ll be all fine )))

hi there corkedboard 

ahh i am so glad that i have someone in a similar position to take some inspiration from. you still did really well in your studies, your grades seem pretty good! but youre completely right. ive gotta just keep moving forward. for biology, maybe ill try your practice questions method leading up to the end of year exam! im glad u obtained success after reconsidering methods. ill reconsider my own methods too.

and youre completely right about the high achievers thing. i know what you mean. and although there is always someone better/worse than you, comparision either just grows insecurity or breeds ego.... so youre completely right! i should focus on myself and my own habits, rather than others success. its easy to become tunnel visioned when considering numbers and the logistics of vce/atar
i hope you are doing well

thank you for your response i was really happy to read it! -j

[jmas123456]

First off, the most serious issue, how do u get that cool star thing???
-_('.')_-Oh I think I got it lol.
....

The feeling of inferiority or that your a fraud comes from the previous world view that you were really smart.
....

U previously had no work habits, and held the belief that u didn't need to study like many other people at ur school but unfortunately that doesn't last forever. And u r now at a critical point where u need to choose what person and student u r:

Will u accept that in the end, the grade u get will eventually reflect the work u put in, and will u look at those doing better than u with the hope that eventually, with enough work, that u CAN surpass them and take pride and joy in what u do and learn.
Or will u accept that in the end you are just too dumb and their is nothing that can be done and so u may as well as give up (not really my cup of tea as far as mindsets go).
...
Anyway yeah in the end, its up to u whether u r gonna continue to feel like somehow only u r struggling(this mindset may come from previous feeling that only u were smart) or if u r gonna accept that there r people who r better than u, and that u will strive to be as good as them.

hi mabajas76! 

yeah! the star emote is my favourite, and i saw the effect and i used it and it turned out cool! hahaha
✫彡.*ﾟ･ﾟ｡..*｡･ﾟ*.
i was really excited to read ur msg and i can really relate to it. i wouldnt say that you are miles off; i must admit, i did hold some immature/naive misconceptions about school as a child e.g. that school would be a lot easier than it currently is for a lot of reasons... i think a LOT of people can relate to our struggle of feeling that we have been ripped away from the comfort that our so called "intellect" provided us. we were so comfortable benefiting from this in our primary/secondary years, and i underestimated how much my self worth derived from this. i really enjoyed having class discussions, being able to apply my knowledge, being able to comfortably help friends who asked me for assistance etc. and while i still do this stuff now, i must work quite a margin harder.
i wouldnt say its so much so an ego thing (although, i never fully trust an individuals own description of their character. we all make allowances for ourselves LOL), i never really consciously believed internally that i was overly intelligent, i just took the fact that i was always in my comfort zone in terms of learning for granted. i dont believe that people ever attributed me with intelligence, my parents never told me i was smart, or even looked at my grades despite me being an A student. i would get the occasional compliment from teachers and superiors at work, but it never really got to me internally. but i never studied, and had a lot of time to do my own hobbies such as sports, music and get into topics such as philosophy, psychology and politics on a surface level in my spare time. it has really been a big change, and i think thats what shocks me; i am now out of my comfort zone and have to dapple with the very small amount of time i have most weeks. i dont truly know what "hard work" is when it comes to study at all...

so, youre completely correct: it is a turning point. i must consciously decide what kid of student i want to be!
i cant continue to sit here just thinking about success... i must act. i must strive to do better!
i have to learn what vce is about, and do the best i can. i hope i can live up to my own expectations.

i hope you know you are intelligent though. youve worked hard, and done well, i am really thankful you gave me such a good reply! thank you 4 ur time

hope your studies are going well, mabajas -j

[Billuminati]

hi atarnotes forum users! 

this is my first true topic post on the website! sorry if my grammar is very informal, i hope it is still easily comprehended by all of you... if this question has already been answered elsewhere, id love to receive a link. id be really interested to read it.
for some context (if wanting some), i am a year 11 vce student accelerating biology this year. for future study, i would be thrilled to be accepted admission into a university to study a degree in something science/law based. my other subjects this year (all 1&2)include chemistry, chinese second language, psychology, methods and english. next year in y12, i am studying chem, chinese, psych, further and english. my atar expectations are high, i hope to achieve an atar of at least 80. my ideal atar score is around 90+... which is v unrealistic i know hahahah

   i am aware the year has hardly started and that year 11 can be quite a turbulent time for students to maneuver (increased workload/expectations/responsibilities), and 1&2 marks dont directly sway your atar. but despite my conscious knowledge of these facts, i am feeling massively insecure about my intelligence. i have felt this way for the past 20 weeks-ish.

   i go to a school where many students are exceptionally intelligent (in my opinion it is quite evident) and i feel quite a bit of personal pressure to keep up this year. throughout my primary years all the way to year 10, i never really had to study at all to achieve all as, or almost all as, in every subject i attempted... i think this is also part of the problem; i do not have distinct/refined study habits. the lack of study habits is also attributed to average 15+ hrs of sport a week, along with work etc. which cannot continue to be excuses  .

   i have begun to study consciously most nights, and even with achieving B-A grades (with methods as exception), i feel worthless in school, feeling that my outlook is very bleak, despite consciously knowing that the way i feel is very... roundabout to say the least. i feel like i cant achieve my goals at this rate. the constant comparison, along with the feeling that i am lacking in reaching my full potential almost feels crushing? others in my classes seem to be doing much better than me in everything; achieving better grades, having better social lives, etc. i am happy for them! most of these people are dear friends, and are super lovely and deserving of their grades! but i just worry that i am being left behind... is this selfish of me? for example, in biology, i have a low A (around 80%) sac average right now, but i feel that the rest of the accelerators (around 5-7) in the class from what ive heard are doing much better, with closer to 90% averages.

   or another prime example; methods. methods has become very painful; obtaining a D average in unit 1, and failing the exam by a mile in the subject, since i do not have a strong algebra background(my y10 set me up for general, rather than methods, i did go to the careers office to discuss methods as a subject in year 9, so im not sure how that all pans out, i really love my careers dept! its mostly my fault for being dumb hahahaah, its a long story). my grades in that subject are very disappointing to me, and kind of shocking. i did study, and even got a tudor on my volition early on, yet achieved nothing and am still as lost as i previously was... im not sure what to expect going into unit2, but i am putting in a lot of work early... i hope it pays off. we are doing chp16, 17 and 20 currently, and it is wk4 into my term 3. the point to me bringing this up is... i feel extremely useless. my grades in this subject crushed emotionally, even though i consciously or logically know school isnt the be all end all, i clearly do not truly believe it fully on a cognitive application level.

   i previously considered a biomedical undergraduate degree as my goal, and something i was extremely driven to achieve. it was my dream. i am still working towards that possibility, but with methods as something i am not completing in y12, undergrad biomed in most places is tough luck in terms of admission for right after graduation. of course i can do an abridging course which contains a methods 3&4 equivalent, but i am doubting my capabilities big time. "would i even be able to do it in the end?" is what i keep relaying to myself. 

has anyone felt the same way, or can relate to my situation? and possibly provide some advice on how to get out of this rut?
or otherwise, does anyone have any tips to increase productivity and motivation?
e.g. specific study tips, a certain type of schedule, resources etc.
is this feeling going to be solved by actually becoming competent?
or is it something solved by other means in your opinion?
or can someone slap me with a bit of reality so i can stop being ungrateful hahahaha

i realise this post has converted itself into a "vent" post that most people will just skip over!
for most reading this (almost all), my lack of experience will be painful. there is so much i am yet to learn and experience within life and vce, along w future study!
if you are reading this far, thank you for even considering this post

and yes, i have looked elsewhere on the net to view this topic matter, but i dont relate to it at all
i wonder if this post will have any views, or any responses hahahahah 

so...to collate my text,
  how do you (personally) deal with or overcome insecurity surrounding your intellectual capabilties?

i wish the best to all of you! feel free to comment your own experiences/advice etc.
i have undoubtedly benefited from many atarnotes forums, due to the participation of this cool community.

all the best
jm    ✫彡   

I kind of suffered through the same thing as you, those 100%s in year 7 and 8 maths gradually turned into 80s in year 11 and 12 and by the time I walked out of my methods exam 1 (2018 LLLOOOLLLL crazy year), I felt like I'm just a glorified chimp at maths. What's worse, those 90%s in years 7 and 8 science became 70s in year 12 bio and chem which ultimately translated into high 30s and low 40s study scores which wasn't good enough for where I wanted them to be. It's really demotivating, you're really gaslighted into wondering if you became dumber as you grew up. I know this may seem like finding excuses, but study scores (especially the science subjects) and ATAR don't really reflect your effort or how much you've learned. It's more about how many marks you were able to not lose by brown nosing VCAA (to be blunt) and copying their examiner report answers word for word, which I think doesn't adequately prepare you for uni (in a uni exam, you actually get penalised for copying standard answers because it's considered plagiarism and doesn't show that you've understood the content). Failing the UMAT with 57th percentile certainly didn't help things either especially when u see all your mates doing so well

I think I broke out of this mindset in 1st year uni by adopting the growth mindset. I wouldn't beat myself up for being dumb or unintelligent anymore, but I would pat myself on the back if I was able to put my best foot forward regardless of the final outcome. There's a study conducted that kids who were told that they "work hard to improve" were able to solve much harder problems than those who were told that they "were smart" because they see each mistake as a chance to improve and manifest their good work ethic as opposed to something that has just denied them a chance of flexxing their smarts. Having the growth and improvement mindset actually helps u become a more resilient person and persevere through the upcoming difficulties in life and I can tell u that uni is a lot tougher than school

PS Please don't believe the myth that smart people don't study and still get good grades, it's perpetrated by flexxers, or worse, mind gamers who want you to copy their supposed habits so that you fail your SAC (yes people do all sorts of things to eliminate their competition, this happens all the time in biomed). Also on the topic of biomed, you may as well go for med, because in case you didn't know biomed toxicity is off the charts high cuz it's full of bitter people who failed to get into undergrad med and would do anything possible to get into postgrad med, up to and including lying, cheating and stealing. Although I decided to do a mindset reset and distance myself from my peers due to the toxic competition, toxicity still finds its way to u in biomed. I heard everyone in the med cohort is really nice, none of that teaching each other wrong facts in study groups nonsense u get here in biomed.

[jmas123456]

Hello and welcome to the forum! Great to have you here

It's really common for your grades to drop as the expectations of school change when you move from pre-VCE to VCE, and to question your abilities during this time. It is normal. You are not alone. In fact, as a Year 12 student, I still sometimes fall into the trap of comparing myself to others, and end up feeling worthless. It is tough knowing that you aren't doing as well as you would've liked, especially in a setting like VCE.

Like others have said, one of the strategies I've found to deal with this was to not share marks at all, and block out the noise of the whole "What did you get?" saga.
..
Oftentimes, the targeted effort you put in will be reflected in your results. Sometimes we can have setbacks where the effort we put in doesn't equate to the results, and this is where it is really important to seek out as much feedback as you can and learn from it.
...
With methods, I was also one of the ones who did 1&2 in Year 11 and then dropped it for Year 12. Like you've said, Year 10 maths isn't really preparation for methods. Even without methods, you can still achieve your study goals... I'd encourage you to start (casually) browsing uni websites and the VTAC CourseSearch to get a more refined picture of what you're interested in and where what you want to do is offered.
...
Your ATAR is like a key to enter a door - the key you get can unlock many different doors...
...
It's difficult to deal with the pressure to achieve certain grades and the feeling of not living up to your potential.
...
Here on the forum, we have many articles and posts on study tips by past students who have achieved success in their studies. A great place to start is this database of AN articles.

Keep at it, jm! You can do this

hi lm21074!   

i hope youre doing well!thank you for the perspective and your warm welcome. im glad to know that this isnt some sort of alien feeling, but i wasnt sure that many people thought this way during this time, since i havent really opened up about it much with my peers or teachers, or parents.

i should try not sharing! youre right. thatd probably help. between classmates, we often talk about grades etc. and sac marks with one another... ill try to stay out of these convos. afterall, that comparison can feel so painful !!! i agree.
along with the advice about reaching out to my teachers, after the last sac results get released, i will try my best to take my results on the chin, avoid comparison and result related discussion, and more importantly seek help!

also concerning methods, i discussed this with a few of my classmates last night on text, and they actually agreed with us too; they are also struggling, or barely passing. these classmates are also very smart, competent and hardworking imo... so im really relieved to hear all of this. it really broke me down for quite awhile! and i love browsing VTAC and other uni websites etc. as you said, it lends a lot of perspective!

and that metaphor... it makes sense. your ATAR is a key in a way. but theres many ways to enter doors of opportunity, just as you said! and thank you so much for the link! ill take a look

thank you for ur support! your experience and outlook really helped me.
i hope things are doing good
-j

[jmas123456]

I kind of suffered through the same thing as you, those 100%s in year 7 and 8 maths gradually turned into 80s in year 11 and 12 and by the time I walked out of my methods exam 1 (2018 LLLOOOLLLL crazy year), I felt like I'm just a glorified chimp at maths... It's really demotivating, you're really gaslighted into wondering if you became dumber as you grew up. I know this may seem like finding excuses, but study scores (especially the science subjects) and ATAR don't really reflect your effort or how much you've learned. It's more about how many marks you were able to not lose by brown nosing VCAA (to be blunt) and copying their examiner report answers word for word, which I think doesn't adequately prepare you for uni...
...
I think I broke out of this mindset in 1st year uni by adopting the growth mindset. I wouldn't beat myself up for being dumb or unintelligent anymore, but I would pat myself on the back if I was able to put my best foot forward regardless of the final outcome... Having the growth and improvement mindset actually helps u become a more resilient person and persevere through the upcoming difficulties in life and I can tell u that uni is a lot tougher than school
...
PS Please don't believe the myth that smart people don't study and still get good grades, it's perpetrated by flexxers, or worse, mind gamers who want you to copy their supposed habits so that you fail your SAC (yes people do all sorts of things to eliminate their competition, this happens all the time in biomed). Also on the topic of biomed, you may as well go for med, because in case you didn't know biomed toxicity is off the charts high cuz it's full of bitter people who failed to get into undergrad med and would do anything possible to get into postgrad med, up to and including lying, cheating and stealing. Although I decided to do a mindset reset and distance myself from my peers due to the toxic competition, toxicity still finds its way to u in biomed. I heard everyone in the med cohort is really nice, none of that teaching each other wrong facts in study groups nonsense u get here in biomed.

hi billuminati 

i do feel like im growing dumber and dumber, day by day tbh. its really demotivating, and its a huge change from the y9-10 that i experienced, especially with y10 being over 1/3 online. i dont think i really knew how much vce would hit me. your grades are actually really impressive billuminati! i am aiming for around there (35~), since i feel that i seriously have no capability for anything higher sadly at this rate, but im working on it! im not really sure what to expect, you know? im a pair of fresh eyes in this system, so im happy to hear about your experience.

i actually really was surprised at how much i agreed about your comment on the rote-learning that exam success really requires. to be honest, i need to try harder to learn more vcaa definitions and learn the ways to answer questions thoroughly, as to not lose marks! its really a game; an intricate formula you have to learn. but this really does require mass effort in its own right. i am not sure how well i can do this kind of learning... but ill try my best!

i am really excited for uni, it seems like exactly what im into(but maybe i will be disappointed due to my expectations again ) since it seems like a lot of deeper learning into something you love, in a way different way to vce. im not sure whether i can even achieve biomed, or whether i should - i still have a lot of decisions to make closer to my graduation date (im sure you understand where im coming from, no need for me to explain haha). my school required us to undertake the morrisby aptitude testing, and i am now considering between a science/med/biomed or law... not sure yet! i just need to focus on nearer hurdles e.g. studying lol

i have heard about the biomed toxicity yes! i wouldnt know indepth but that sounds so scary!!! i hope i can support my fellow uni goers like comrades, not competition

and wow, youre pretty spot on about the "smart kids dont study yet still reap success" fallacy within classes. i know many smart and lovely people, along with others, where it seems that all they talk about is their grades, yet claim that they "do no work" or "never study" or "dont understand whats going on" in a subject...  when clearly, they do. and this is due to their hard work! whether they deny it due to malice, im not sure how much but i think is less than 1% of casestbh. but dont get me wrong, i have encountered those types just like u have, and it is really hard to listen to their assertions over time. i believe most students speak this way with the "i dont get it at all" act is because they dont want to be scrutinised. they want to be seen as brilliant, and often kids will call others who clearly work hard names etc and poke fun... i likely think its due to urge of wanting to be civil and liked among peers; to relate to others in a trait of agreeableness. but it does put many people down since, they are portraying an image (whether they mean to or not)that their grades are attributed to pure intellectual brilliance, when in reality, they are mostly smart well rounded hard workers (which, that is also impressive within itself). i totally agree, i shouldnt think so narrowly, it is a myth that purely "being smart" is how you obtain good grades.

thank u for ur reply. means a lot to hear ur outlook
hope ur uni studyis going well. among other things
-j

[K888]

The marks you receive in school absolutely do not reflect someone's intelligence.

I feel like a lot of ANers can empathise with the whole "was a high achiever, now has crippling fear of failure/imposter syndrome/crumbles under pressure/etc etc". You're definitely not alone. And it's definitely never too late to get into good study habits (I'll leave tips about this to people who are a bit less ancient), but they will take some dedication - behaviour change is incredibly hard and doesn't happen overnight! But please don't ever feel like the marks you get in school mean anything about who you are as a person.

Also, re: careers - even if you don't get a high enough ATAR, there's always other ways to get into your desired course. You can do a year of another degree and then transfer, or follow so many other options. Don't be rushing to get to the end + working FT - the workforce will always be there. Enjoy the opportunity to learn, explore and be curious

[blueycan]

Hey jmas!
I know there have been a lot of great responses already, but I wanted to share some of my thoughts with you as a year 12 student who has experienced something similar for a while. Although our desired paths are somewhat different (sooo not a science person but I also want to go into law!) I hope my experiences can translate across study areas.

my experience

Growing up I was always a high achiever, somewhat ahead of my classes and always looking for more/looking forward to the future adult me– I never really "studied" before mid year 10 so I can relate to not feeling like I have established skills (I still struggle with procrastination and time management now in the middle of year 12 so... lol)
Having studied majority of last year online, I never really paid attention to how others in my classes were doing as they were kind of... out of sight-out of mind? I studied a 3/4 sequence in year 11 too, my subject being HHD. But this year approaching year 12, I felt different to last year– I started to doubt my capabilities, look into more backup courses rather than become excited for my desired course, stress about grades and sac scores. I especially felt like I had to constantly out-do my last sac score in order to prove myself– I had to be ranked first, I had to be receiving all the praise, I had to constantly do better and better and better. for an example, with legal studies, I felt like there were people in my class that it all just came to them naturally, and I honestly was envious and felt like I was falling behind.

This past June, coming out of a lockdown, we had our mid-year exams, and I completely bombed my Visual Communication Design exam (I didn't do the subject last year and majority of the content was stuff the class went through last year– I talked more about it in my vce journal if you want to know the nitty gritty lmao). I got 41%, which, is probably a solid mark to someone else but in my case, I was so bummed. Even though it was a mid year exam! It didn't count for anything! I cried my eyes out on the way home, cried some more at home, cried some more the next day– I felt like shit. I kept thinking– I was so stupid, I didn't leave enough time to study, I shouldn't have picked that subject, I should drop it, e.t.c.

Long story short, this past school holidays I got super sick with the flu. My immune system was run down from all the stress I was putting myself under, and I spent the two weeks sleepless and miserable. I think that was the key turn around moment that I needed to change my mindset or this would continue and I would get even sicker during my end of year exams, which would be not very good at all to say the least. During all of this, I barely even considered the facts that my mind and my body were under so much stress from the lockdowns & from other personal issues and I put my health second to that feeling of academic validation.

I think realising that you are experiencing this is the first step to becoming aware of your mindset towards your education/peers. Also I completely understand the feeling of being "ungrateful," I can't even count the times I've heard "you have good grades what are you complaining about" type thing, but in reality, you are feeling this, it exists, and it should be addressed.
Having a good support system really helps. For me, this is my mum, friends and mentors, but for you it could be totally different– even AN is a type of support system. Having someone to unload to and someone who can provide you constructive advice is so vital to ensure you're not getting into your own head about things and inflating the issue into a huuge thing (like me lol)

Also– comparison is TRULY the thief of joy. I know that it's not easy to just wake up one day and stop comparing yourself to others, so I think it's something you have to keep reminding yourself. If I see a friend getting a higher score and I'm at first like "urgh should've studied harder" I try to take a step back and force myself to say "wait wait hold on a sec, look at their achievement, they must be so happy and I am so proud of their efforts". It's helped me not succumb to the initial thought and be positive and constructive about the situation. I always express how much I don't like how VCE is a competition, sometimes one can become bitter at the fact that they're being compared to someone they don't know and there could be unfair factors that influence things– but it will finish one day and then we will be onto different things.
This might sound harsh but another thing I had to accept was– you're not gonna be the smartest person in every room. There are going to be people you meet that you feel like are so much more intelligent than you, and maybe they are– but ykw thats okay! Everyone has different specialities– what I like and what person A likes is different, we lead different lives, and if they're "smarter" than me, that just allows me to learn something new from them. It sounds cliche– but we're all human, and none of us are one in the same, and it would be a very boring world if we were all the same intelligence level with nothing to admire and learn about one another.
Try not to put yourself down– it's hard and even sometimes becomes second nature to be self detrimental but I find that once I start, it just spirals. Your goal of a 90+ IS achievable! People will and do read your posts (like me!)
Growth isn't linear– we have good days where we can implement good study habits and have a positive mindset, and then we have different days where we feel insecurity and we feel like we're not living up to our potential. But it's important to remember that school is just school, and these feelings are temporary– it's just a vessel to something else, and it's an opportunity to find what you like and to build social connections/skills.

I don't think that study tips are the main thing I can offer you in terms of advice but the biggest thing that I felt like helped me while I was completing HHD last year was organisation– making sure your notes are in an order you feel comfortable with, knowing where you can access information, having your practice exams printed and stored neatly so you can just get into studying without stressing about the state of things. Also, my teacher was my God– consult your teachers for everything like marking, questions, advice, practice e.t.c. Build a system– it doesn't need to be fancy and you won't get it right the first time, but try different "studying" techniques, different areas of your house, the like. It differs depending the subject of course– for Legal, I like typing my notes into detailed summaries and using them while completing practice SACs. For Psychology (which you study as well yay!) I like to complete the summary tests at the end of the chapters, and type out my notes alongside diagrams. I think I went through over 15 techniques during year 11 until I (kind-of) settled into the groove I have now.

I didn't really plan out this response all too well and it definitely echoes the other people in the thread but I hope that you can, at the very least, find some comfort in that there are people out there with similar experiences willing to listen. My PM's are always open if you want to talk to someone or need help with anything.
Jeyda (:

[jmas123456]

The marks you receive in school absolutely do not reflect someone's intelligence.

I feel like a lot of ANers can empathise with the whole "was a high achiever, now has crippling fear of failure/imposter syndrome/crumbles under pressure/etc etc". You're definitely not alone. And it's definitely never too late to get into good study habits (I'll leave tips about this to people who are a bit less ancient), but they will take some dedication - behaviour change is incredibly hard and doesn't happen overnight! But please don't ever feel like the marks you get in school mean anything about who you are as a person.

Also, re: careers - even if you don't get a high enough ATAR, there's always other ways to get into your desired course. You can do a year of another degree and then transfer, or follow so many other options. Don't be rushing to get to the end + working FT - the workforce will always be there. Enjoy the opportunity to learn, explore and be curious

hi k888!!   

thank you for reminding me of that. youre right marks =/= intelligence. there is so many factors that go into marks, and intelligence is definitely not the limiting factor. sometimes its hard to tell myself that though hahahahi constantly ruminate about my intelligence when it comes to marks... its quite funny really

and yeah,changing old habits is super hard. i dont hate studying, but with my usual very small amounts of time during the week, i really need to work on utilising my time well! i hope i can gain a little more confidence once i do, and better grades along with it so i can achieve my goals hopefully!

my fear of failure will hopefully turn into fuel!! lets hope i can pull together! and u are totally correct about the careers, i should keep reminding myself of that too haha

it wont happen overnight ur right. i hope ill look back on this moment at least a few steps forward in a few weeks/months... i hope others feeling a similar way read this thread and feel some sort of reassurance. vce can be hard since it feels so new right? but later on, like you can say, it gets better. thank you for ur reply! i was worried nobody would reply and id be stuck here thinking by myself! thank you for ur time. its reassuring to hear this from someone whose done it all before, so thank u so much k888 !

treat urself well, and have a nice day/night!
-j

[jmas123456]

Hey jmas!
I know there have been a lot of great responses already, but I wanted to share some of my thoughts with you as a year 12 student who has experienced something similar for a while. Although our desired paths are somewhat different (sooo not a science person but I also want to go into law!) I hope my experiences can translate across study areas.

my experience

Growing up I was always a high achiever, somewhat ahead of my classes and always looking for more/looking forward to the future adult me– I never really "studied" before mid year 10 so I can relate to not feeling like I have established skills...

This past June, coming out of a lockdown, we had our mid-year exams, and I completely bombed my Visual Communication Design exam (I didn't do the subject last year and majority of the content was stuff the class went through last year– I talked more about it in my vce journal if you want to know the nitty gritty lmao). I got 41%, which, is probably a solid mark to someone else but in my case, I was so bummed. Even though it was a mid year exam! It didn't count for anything! I cried my eyes out on the way home, cried some more at home, cried some more the next day– I felt like shit. I kept thinking– I was so stupid, I didn't leave enough time to study, I shouldn't have picked that subject, I should drop it, e.t.c.
...
Long story short, this past school holidays I got super sick with the flu. My immune system was run down from all the stress I was putting myself under, and I spent the two weeks sleepless and miserable. I think that was the key turn around moment that I needed to change my mindset or this would continue and I would get even sicker during my end of year exams, which would be not very good at all to say the least. During all of this, I barely even considered the facts that my mind and my body were under so much stress from the lockdowns & from other personal issues and I put my health second to that feeling of academic validation.

I think realising that you are experiencing this is the first step to becoming aware of your mindset towards your education/peers. Also I completely understand the feeling of being "ungrateful," I can't even count the times I've heard "you have good grades what are you complaining about" type thing, but in reality, you are feeling this, it exists, and it should be addressed.
Having a good support system really helps. For me, this is my mum, friends and mentors, but for you it could be totally different– even AN is a type of support system. Having someone to unload to and someone who can provide you constructive advice is so vital to ensure you're not getting into your own head about things and inflating the issue into a huuge thing (like me lol)

Also– comparison is TRULY the thief of joy. I know that it's not easy to just wake up one day and stop comparing yourself to others, so I think it's something you have to keep reminding yourself. If I see a friend getting a higher score and I'm at first like "urgh should've studied harder" I try to take a step back and force myself to say "wait wait hold on a sec, look at their achievement, they must be so happy and I am so proud of their efforts". It's helped me not succumb to the initial thought and be positive and constructive about the situation. I always express how much I don't like how VCE is a competition, sometimes one can become bitter at the fact that they're being compared to someone they don't know and there could be unfair factors that influence things– but it will finish one day and then we will be onto different things.
This might sound harsh but another thing I had to accept was– you're not gonna be the smartest person in every room. There are going to be people you meet that you feel like are so much more intelligent than you, and maybe they are– but ykw thats okay! Everyone has different specialities– what I like and what person A likes is different, we lead different lives, and if they're "smarter" than me, that just allows me to learn something new from them. It sounds cliche– but we're all human, and none of us are one in the same, and it would be a very boring world if we were all the same intelligence level with nothing to admire and learn about one another.
Try not to put yourself down– it's hard and even sometimes becomes second nature to be self detrimental but I find that once I start, it just spirals. Your goal of a 90+ IS achievable! People will and do read your posts (like me!)
Growth isn't linear– we have good days where we can implement good study habits and have a positive mindset, and then we have different days where we feel insecurity and we feel like we're not living up to our potential. But it's important to remember that school is just school, and these feelings are temporary– it's just a vessel to something else, and it's an opportunity to find what you like and to build social connections/skills.

I don't think that study tips are the main thing I can offer you in terms of advice but the biggest thing that I felt like helped me while I was completing HHD last year was organisation– making sure your notes are in an order you feel comfortable with, knowing where you can access information, having your practice exams printed and stored neatly so you can just get into studying without stressing about the state of things. Also, my teacher was my God– consult your teachers for everything like marking, questions, advice, practice e.t.c. Build a system– it doesn't need to be fancy and you won't get it right the first time, but try different "studying" techniques, different areas of your house, the like. It differs depending the subject of course– for Legal, I like typing my notes into detailed summaries and using them while completing practice SACs. For Psychology (which you study as well yay!) I like to complete the summary tests at the end of the chapters, and type out my notes alongside diagrams. I think I went through over 15 techniques during year 11 until I (kind-of) settled into the groove I have now.

I didn't really plan out this response all too well and it definitely echoes the other people in the thread but I hope that you can, at the very least, find some comfort in that there are people out there with similar experiences willing to listen. My PM's are always open if you want to talk to someone or need help with anything.
Jeyda (:

hi jeyda /blueycan     
(weird comment but your name is so cute hahah thank you for stopping by my thread n putting in such a thoughtful response, it means a lot!)

your experience definitely gave me some perspective, and i feel a related to your situation too! even if we arent aiming for the same areas of study per-say, we still have the same sort of downfalls in our views sometimes towards vce and our grades, so it checks out! e.g. lockdown feelings and the similar negative self talk i was having. thank u again 4 ur msg, i really hope youre doing better, you seem to be a really academically driven person, and i hope you can achieve all that you want this year! i believe in u! u seem like such a warm person, and what you felt i can really resonate with.

youre right! we should be proud of others achievements, and ive been really proud of my friends n their hardwork. i hope i can be on a similar wavelength soon. but i cant lie, its only human to be envious from time to time as you said. and envy is super corrosive imo  it doesnt take long before it eats away at you and the tiniest things that touch that feeling become almost triggering to u e.g. avoiding work or procrastinating because u feel like you cant amount to anything yyada yaada hahaha

and yes! we arent gonna be the smartest in the room, but thats okay, because as u said, the smartest in the room is subjective. its all subjective, and based on so many things. and everyone has different strengths! i hope we can all see our strengths. im sure theres tons of ppl who look up to u jeyda for example. even if u dont feel like u shine, to many u will

i will try to implement your advice (ive written down notes from all of this thread advice in my notebook hahahah including urs) so that i can see school as more of a learning experience, not a matter of whether youre smart or not

i hope my goal of 90+ is achievable !!!!!!!!!!!!!! i guess it is if i try hard enough

ill try ur study tips too! i do some of them, but ill try others. im going to try to make summaries for a bunch of chapters for bio this week, and ur tips only motivate me more!! thank u so much

i hope y12 goes well for u jeyda !
-j

[AngelWings]

Hi Jmas123456 and a belated welcome to AN!

for some context (if wanting some), i am a year 11 vce student accelerating biology this year. for future study, i would be thrilled to be accepted admission into a university to study a degree in something science/law based. my other subjects this year (all 1&2)include chemistry, chinese second language, psychology, methods and english. next year in y12, i am studying chem, chinese, psych, further and english.

I did all these subjects back in the day (cough, Class of 2014, cough), except Biology.

i have begun to study consciously most nights, and even with achieving B-A grades (with methods as exception), i feel worthless in school, feeling that my outlook is very bleak, despite consciously knowing that the way i feel is very... roundabout to say the least. i feel like i cant achieve my goals at this rate. the constant comparison, along with the feeling that i am lacking in reaching my full potential almost feels crushing? others in my classes seem to be doing much better than me in everything; achieving better grades, having better social lives, etc. i am happy for them! most of these people are dear friends, and are super lovely and deserving of their grades! but i just worry that i am being left behind... is this selfish of me? for example, in biology, i have a low A (around 80%) sac average right now, but i feel that the rest of the accelerators (around 5-7) in the class from what ive heard are doing much better, with closer to 90% averages.
-snip- "would i even be able to do it in the end?" is what i keep relaying to myself. 

To me, this sounds like a mixture between a severe case of imposter syndrome mixed with a want to compare yourself against others. I've experienced both to varying extents across my life. It's really easy to forget that other people are struggling and putting in the hard yards behind the scenes too. It's also super easy to fall into the toxic mindset of "what did you get" like others have mentioned above. However, it's great to see that you're actively trying to do something about it. Admitting you have an issue to begin with is the first step to actually changing the situation.

i previously considered a biomedical undergraduate degree as my goal, and something i was extremely driven to achieve. it was my dream. i am still working towards that possibility, but with methods as something i am not completing in y12, undergrad biomed in most places is tough luck in terms of admission for right after graduation. of course i can do an abridging course which contains a methods 3&4 equivalent, but i am doubting my capabilities big time.

Have you considered a biomed course that doesn't have the Methods prereq e.g. Deakin Biomed? It will allow you to do the same thing, just at a "smaller" uni. And if you're deadset on going to "bigger unis" like Monash or UoM later on, you can try transferring later on assuming you have the prereqs, like Lm said. If you're motivated enough, you'll find a pathway that suits you or gets you to where you want to be eventually. As K888 said, it's not a race into the workforce and it's not a race to finish your degree the fastest.   

and possibly provide some advice on how to get out of this rut?

I don't necessarily have much advice, but I did want to point out that I really liked this quote back in Year 12 and it feels eerily similar to CorkedBoard's advice ("keep moving forward"). The quote was: "You can't change the past, but you can always change the future." I interpret this quote as more of a "I can't change what happened already, so what can I do realistically now that can change what happens next?" because crying over spilt milk e.g. regretting those seemingly obvious mistakes you made on that SAC you just did, will benefit no one. In order to "keep moving forward", you also need to realise that feeling terrible now isn't going to do you much good or going to change anything unless you do something about your own situation.

is this feeling going to be solved by actually becoming competent?
or is it something solved by other means in your opinion?
-snip-
so...to collate my text,
how do you (personally) deal with or overcome insecurity surrounding your intellectual capabilties?

If it's imposter syndrome, then it's likely you won't ever feel "competent" ever, but you can change your mindset and attitude towards it as long as you recognise it exists. I know plenty of people (including PhD candidates and professors) who feel insecure or like they know nothing despite being literal experts in their field (I definitely did back in Honours). However, how they dealt with it was what mattered. Often, it was dealing with it head on: they changed their thoughts when comparing themselves to others to something more positive by adding an achievement of their own, or they would work harder to learn more to become better and use this as their motivation. As you grow older, you will find your own way to deal with these sorts of matters. Until then, you can read up and try other people's methods and find ways that work better for you, or modify others' methods so that it works better for you.

[Snow Leopard]

Hey,

Just wanted to mention that Latrobe's biomed degree only requires a 20 study score in an English subject: https://www.latrobe.edu.au/courses/bachelor-of-biomedicine