ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => General University Discussion and Queries => Topic started by: collierenazzado on June 07, 2021, 05:25:38 pm
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Hello, I am a new AN user and a Year 12 student stuck between Monash Medicine or Law/Arts (major in psych), Law/Comm (major in behavioural commerce). Below are my reasons for wanting to pursue both careers. If you could provide some advice (particularly if you are a med/law student), that would help me out a lot! Appreciate it :).
Some background info before you read the reasons: I love English and the Sciences. I am a very creative person and I love a people-based job. Most of my hobbies are creative writing, watching movies, listening to music (eg. creative-based). However, I don't like art at all! Big LOL. When I was little.... I wanted to be an actor. Then... i found out that i was doing well at school and wanted to become a doctor and my parents probably over-encouraged it. I did love science and helping people with illnesses.. I always found learning about diseases and the human body fascinating when i was young.
So i carried that ideal throughout my whole schooling life... until in year 9 when i discovered law and how i really enjoyed fighting for justice and fairness. family friends all did law in uni, they were major influences on me because obviously my parents and their parents and them met up for dinner. then i've been in and out of law and med ever since then and never really sat down and addressed it.
then.. i did psych 3/4 last year and fell in love it. i wanted to study it in uni, given the opportunity to not give up my main dreams of med or law. last year summer holidays i also researched reality of med and stuff.... the night shifts, long hours, disgusting stuff was a little off putting to me.... so i was like med/law/psych
so i decided to sit the UCAT just in case i wanted med in year 12.... no regrets right?
in a difficult situation now. should i cancel the ucat test and get a refund? or continue my ucat prep and sit it... my ucat prep has been on and off. my scores are fluctuating... im getting 90th in SJT and sometimes in VR and DM, but always 50 for QR and 60-70 for AR. (these are percentiles, not percentages).
an adv of cancelling the UCAT is that more time is spent chilling/VCE prep
a disadv of cancelling the UCAT is money gone spent on medentry, and a future possible regret of not taking it in year 12, with the guilt of my 'childhood dream' being a doctor. as u can see i've wanted to become a doctor more than a lawyer when i was young. but i was young.. some of my reasons of being a doctor might be idealised and a little shallow hahaha.
Medicine:
Rewarding helping people recover from illnesses
I like to learn about diseases
More cash money than a lawyer
Get the dr. in front of my name without a phD
High Job security
Science of the human body is fascinating
my parents and relatives will respect me more
Law:
I like to argue and prove people wrong (hehe)
I’m interested in learning about laws and fighting for justice
Clean (don’t have to look at yucky stuff)
I’m interested in medical law as a masters under my undergrad
Get to study psych at uni
NO MATHS
NO RURAL
Thanks everyone!
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Just an update -
I can't imagine myself not pursuing Med or Law, unless I don't get into these courses.
Cheers :) i look forward to reading everyone's replies!
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Hi there,
I'm happy to offer some limited advice (although it will be limited, I'm only a first year med student so I can't offer anything about the actual careers themselves or what it's like to be a doctor/lawyer)
Should you sit the UCAT?
First of all, I'm pretty sure that the deadline for cancelling your UCAT test and receiving a refund was yesterday. Given that the test is quite expensive and you've already paid for Medentry prep the best thing you can probably do for yourself is sit the test, even with little preparation (it's only 2 hours). That way you're not wasting a tonne of money. If I was you, I'd continue with gentle prep but don't let it eat into VCE study time or chill time (eg. just 15 minutes a day or something and 1-2 full practice exams). Unless you suddenly become certain that you don't want to pursue med (if that's the case, I would just sit the test without anymore preparation). Or unless you suddenly become certain you want to get into medicine and not do law (in which case, probably do a little more preparation).
Med or Law?
Personally I think that you should concentrate on your recent thoughts surrounding your career. At the end of the day a childhood dream is exactly that, a childhood dream. Don't do medicine just because it's what you have wanted to do for the last 5 years of high school, instead do it because it's something you want to do now.
I'd also encourage you to reconsider your list of pros and cons. Whilst it is important to consider things about job security, etc, at the end of the day both med and law are respected courses with a broad spectrum of possible career paths. You've probably already been told this, but you really need to pick the course/career you think you will enjoy more and get more out of. If that's still not clear right now, don't worry (after all, you might enjoy both)! As long as you sit the UCAT (and preference Med somewhere on your list) then both options are open to you, really up until December after ATARs are released. That's another 6 months that you have to do more research, have a look at the course outlines and make a decision.
I just edited your list a little to make you think a bit more about the pros/cons of your options, you could add more to it yourself over the next few months to help you figure out your decision. Maybe talk to some of your friends in law and ask them to help you out with their pros/cons of the career.
Medicine:
Rewarding helping people recover from illnesses
I like to learn about diseases
More cash money than a lawyer
Get the dr. in front of my name without a phD
High Job security
Science of the human body is fascinating
my parents and relatives will respect me more
No Maths
Possible pathway into psychiatry
Law:
I like to argue and prove people wrong (hehe)
I’m interested in learning about laws and fighting for justice
Clean (don’t have to look at yucky stuff)
I’m interested in medical law as a masters under my undergrad
Get to study psych at uni
NO MATHS
NO RURAL
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Personally I think that you should concentrate on your recent thoughts surrounding your career.
I want to second this. I personally have gone into a course that I only even thought of within the last half or quarter of year 12 (the midwifery side). I know I'm only in first year, but I'm absolutely loving it and sometimes midwifery is the only thing that incites me to study.
Just my thoughts.
Really seconding everything that Choco's saying.
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Adding onto the great advice from Chocolatemilkshake and The Cat in the Hat, you could potentially do a Double degree in Bachelor of Law/Science or Bachelor of Law/Biomedical Science at Monash. This would mean you are able to keep both medicine and law options open since you will be eligible for Monash postgraduate medicine. While it is 1 year longer, it can keep that option open and also allow you to satisfy both your English and Science love. Definitely do more research about the Law doubles tho since I'm only doing a single Science degree so might not know all the details.
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As a current 4th yr med student at Monash I've been through some of what you are considering now.
I am also an intrinisically very creative person, and my two favourite subjects at school were English and Latin. Whilst in high school I doubted if someone like me might be meant for medicine if my passions seemed to be more humanities based. I was also conscious of the number of law graduates and heard from family friends of the grind being in a corporate job. When I did work experience (at both a hospital and law firm) the lawyer told me not to do law and do medicine instead :)
I ended up choosing medicine because I felt if I was serious I wanted to do it straight from school as I couldn't really stomach the thought of doing another degree and competing for a place all over again, I had numerous other interests I would be happy to pursue anyway.
There are many types of people in medicine and so far it has been a good choice. I enjoy the challenge, and love talking with patients. I also have much in common with the people in my course, who are people used to learning, hard work and we can have a laugh too.
Although medicine can be creative in some ways e.g. formulating differential diagnoses, it really is am mass memorisation, making connections and learning the administration with the job. It is also a very long career path, so you have to pace yourself. My tip is, if you're keen, ensure you pursue your other interests alongside medicine. All jobs have some degree of drudgery associated with them and medicine is no different, however once you gain a bit of confidence you start feeling like you're actually useful and at the end of the day there's always jobs. Don't go into it just for status though, you can ''make it'' in heaps of other professions with less of an emotional burden and you're at the bottom of the pecking order for a while. If you're into money you will be well renumerated but those who make the most money in general are those who go into fields that deal with money/that enable one to start a business.
P.S. def sits the UCAT although it's cliche you may as well have that option of med open if it's even remotely on your radar
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Hello everyone,
Thanks to everyone who replied. Your comments were really helpful and I wanted to post an update (or crisis... haha):
-I didn't end up sitting the UCAT and I do have some regrets about not giving it a shot. Sometimes I think I'm stupid to waste that opportunity. But I wasn't doing that well in my UCAT prep and I thought to myself... if I got into undergrad med, I will be envious of psych students because I really really love psych!
-I think over this year I've learnt a lot about myself. I really want a job in healthcare, or some job that links to a lot of people interactions. does law let me do this? idk.
-I've done a lot more research of law since last time I posted and I talked to some law students online and my fam friends who are law students. Idk the thing is with law, I can see myself dropping it unless I end up liking it. If I end up finishing with a law degree, I want to venture into "people-based" jobs like family law, or medical law (I really like healthcare stuff) but not really another degrees. A lot of law students end up being in finance/commerce areas if they don't practice law and I 100% do not want to do that. Not appealing to me. But I gotta give it a shot though... but I'm worried about the credit transfer when I drop the law degree.
-still interested in grad med, but not too sure if its worth going interstate
Having a bit of trouble with VTAC preferences. My first preference is law/sci (major in psych) at Monash which is 5 years, but doing this will take me ages to do grad med as opposed to a typical 3 year degree.
-not sure if I have the drive to do med. I love learning about human diseases, the patient interaction, etc. but the thing is I am not sure if I am caring enough for that profession. Idk whenever I go to a hospital I get scared looking at ill patients and dealing with gross stuff (as I mentioned in my earlier post). If I do end up with a med degree, I can see myself as a GP or a psychiatrist or maybe even somewhere in orthopedics idk. I didn't really enjoy VCE bio though, LOL.
-my mum is forcing me to do law, my dad is ok with me doing whatever but he really wants me to be a doctor. I am an only child and I can't really afford to move out soon. One of the main reasons I'm doing a law degree with psych is to ensure I don't "waste" my ATAR if not my parents will always be on my back of choosing a course that doesn't have a high 90s ATAR.
-looked at some health-related degrees. none of them capture my eye though.
-I'm also worried about salary and job security like everyone else. What are your opinions on job security and salary of lawyers and psychologists?
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if I got into undergrad med, I will be envious of psych students because I really really love psych!
You could potentially pursue psychiatry or use a longer pathway to pursue psych as well?
-I think over this year I've learnt a lot about myself. I really want a job in healthcare, or some job that links to a lot of people interactions. does law let me do this? idk.
I work in two healthcare/science jobs, one which definitely faces a lot of patients and the other less so. Truth be told, both jobs have some “icky stuff” to them and so will the majority of other health care jobs. Just a warning since you seem to have an issue with it. (There are only a few exceptions like psychologist and genetic counsellor that don’t have to deal with it on a daily basis but might during your education towards said pathways.)
-I've done a lot more research of law since last time I posted and I talked to some law students online and my fam friends who are law students. Idk the thing is with law, I can see myself dropping it unless I end up liking it. If I end up finishing with a law degree, I want to venture into "people-based" jobs like family law, or medical law (I really like healthcare stuff) but not really another degrees.
My friend who did a law degree said that certain unis specialise in certain areas of law. Family law tends to be something that Deakin is best at. Monash and UoM are typically better at corporate law from what I’ve heard but I can’t confirm the legitimacy of that.
Having a bit of trouble with VTAC preferences. My first preference is law/sci (major in psych) at Monash which is 5 years, but doing this will take me ages to do grad med as opposed to a typical 3 year degree.
The duration should be less of a sticking point if you want to pursue both areas (and probably eventually a career in at least one of them). As you get older, you will come to realise that time is all relative and it’s not a race to get a career or “be an adult” the fastest.
-not sure if I have the drive to do med. I love learning about human diseases, the patient interaction, etc. but the thing is I am not sure if I am caring enough for that profession. Idk whenever I go to a hospital I get scared looking at ill patients and dealing with gross stuff (as I mentioned in my earlier post). If I do end up with a med degree, I can see myself as a GP or a psychiatrist or maybe even somewhere in orthopedics idk. I didn't really enjoy VCE bio though, LOL.
You don’t necessarily have to be super “caring” to be in the healthcare industry, but the gross stuff is a normal part of most healthcare jobs in all honesty. A GP will still see gross things on a daily basis and have to learn about said gross stuff during their training and education, so it will be difficult to escape unless you’re able to normalise it internally. (For an anecdote, I used to be scared of blood beyond my own and now work with it on a daily basis.)
-my mum is forcing me to do law, my dad is ok with me doing whatever but he really wants me to be a doctor. I am an only child and I can't really afford to move out soon. One of the main reasons I'm doing a law degree with psych is to ensure I don't "waste" my ATAR if not my parents will always be on my back of choosing a course that doesn't have a high 90s ATAR.
Ignore parental pressure for a moment and think about what you truly want (after all this is your life and you’re the one who has to live it). Is it really going to be what you’re happy with?
On top to this, don’t worry about “wasting” your ATAR because there’s no such thing. Your ATAR is simply a key to unlock one door, not a one-use currency to be used up. I got a 90+ ATAR and picked a course with an early 80s requirement purely because I liked it better than my other options. I have no regrets.
I have seen some high achievers who got in the high 90s who go do courses that need way less. Also, ATAR entry requirements are based on demand, not on the difficulty of the course. There’s no shame in doing a course that needs a lower ATAR or even no ATAR at all because nobody cares about your ATAR once you’re in the course. The thing that should matter most is that you like your most desired course the best and that it’s the best fit for you and what you want in life. After all, it’s highly likely you’ll be paying for it so you may as well find the one most worthwhile for you.
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hello
the "ucat regret" has got me thinking about doing the guaranteed ffp med at melb. obviously, if i get 99. idk if that includes seas. if it does include seas, i know that u dont know what ur "scaled" atar is with seas, but i reckon if i get 98.5 +, my "scaled" atar would be 99.
i know no one likes the GAMSAT, but its harder to study for a 6 hour test and do it with anxiety and insomnia, i just want to back myself up. even if it means forking up approx 250k once i take out a uni loan to help with the 300k? also, maybe its not as expensive as i think bc if i do gamsat and get a csp at some interstate uni (or even deakin geelong or monash gippsland), i still have to pay for my accomodation, food and rural training. but if i get into melb doc of med, i can still save money by living with my parents. maybe the money difference isnt so bad anymore when i compare it like that. also, i dont waste money on Monash law if i decide to drop it.
with the "conditional wam" thing, i realise that i need a 75 whether i do med or not, bc to get a masters in psych u need 75. so thats not an issue, and i read on AN and MSO that the MMI is pretty easy to "pass". its starting to look appealing.
the downsides are:
-no experience with law and if i decide i dont like med and want to do law, i have to do the JD
-if i dont like psych, im pretty screwed for the "FFP" thingy. with monash law/psych, i can lean against one or like change to something like arts if i hate both without "worrying about the FFP"
-even though the money difference is not as bad as i think, there is a possibility melb ffp med is more expensive than CSP interstate
-i want to go to "'tropical areas" and stuff like that, qld looks pretty appealing.
-FFP kids dont secure internships. means i will lose a lot of time and money if i dont get one.
-have to work HARD in med school to get an internship, compared to CSP kids who can just pass everything and secure one.
-if i fail the gamsat and do the ffp, am i really suited to be a doctor?
What % of FFP med students secure internships?
if i get raw 99 atar on results day, i might put sci (major in psych) @ melb as my first vtac preference for the FFP. i need more insight though. the problem with FFP med is u have to know u want it. i read on the website u need to study at melb uni immediately after year 12, so i cant do one year at monash doing law/sci (major in psych) and switch to melb uni.