ATAR/Scaling Questions

[RuiAce]

Here I quote for you directly from that link
"The Board moderates your School Assessment Mark for a subject using the Examination Marks obtained by the students who sat the exam for that subject at your school. That is, your HSC Physics mark is moderated based on the results of Physics students at your school."

Doesn't that look like cohort's total exam marks rather than your own exam mark?

Is there a necessity to clearly say that it's dependent on the cohort? The fact is that I dumbed it down to not include any specifics. Everything was in the link so why should I?

Of course I knew that it was the cohort's range of marks that mattered. But there's no point in me going on about ranks and relative mark differences right now is there?

If all you were doing is calling me out for not relating to the entire cohort and rather the single student, I'm sorry but you may stop. Because my point was not to be specific about anything here.

[A1P]

If all you were doing is calling me out for not relating to the entire cohort and rather the single student, I'm sorry but you may stop.

Your ranting over yet?

Did not mean to call you out, I did say just "to be more unambiguous". Dumbing down cohort's marks to one's exam mark can be confusing to many, an example is like this post
Re: Questions regarding rankings

That was all.

[RuiAce]

Your ranting over yet?

Did not mean to call you out, I did say just "to be more unambiguous". Dumbing down cohort's marks to one's exam mark can be confusing to many, an example is like this post
Re: Questions regarding rankings

That was all.

I edited the relevant post.

Whilst this is definitely true, I simply felt no need to repeat what was already mentioned word for word. If ambiguity was caused, I would've preferred being asked by the confused or anyone about it, rather than being told about it from losing patience with questions that were already answered in prior posts.

To which I apologise for my dramatic nature there. Your comment was not made on a basis where it felt like a correction, rather just adding on information whilst I was holding my ground in amply already answered questions.

[jamie anderson]

Hello, for moderation/ranking/scaling whatever its called, if im ranked 3rd in a subject and get the highest external mark ( out of my cohort ) in an exam can i still get the highest mark overall in my school cohort? or do i automatically get the 3rd highest mark and have it moderated with my internal ?

thanks

[jamonwindeyer]

Hello, for moderation/ranking/scaling whatever its called, if im ranked 3rd in a subject and get the highest external mark ( out of my cohort ) in an exam can i still get the highest mark overall in my school cohort? or do i automatically get the 3rd highest mark and have it moderated with my internal ?

thanks

Hey Jamie! First, understand that your exam mark is yours, your cohort/rank has no effect on that

Your Moderated Assessment Mark, however, is what gets changed. Getting the 3rd highest mark is a good way to approximate it,  so yes, while your exam mark will stay the same, your assessment mark will be moderated to something similar to the 3rd highest exam mark. These are then averaged at the end

Edit: Note this is a rough way of explaining it. In reality the moderation process takes the School Marks themselves and shifts them up or down based on the exam average, keeping relative distance. That said, you will roughly get the 3rd highest exam mark as your internal mark.

[RuiAce]

I reckon there's nothing to add to what Jamon said.

The point to remember is that your highest external mark belongs to yourself. That can't be changed; only the internals will go through a moderation process.

[jamie anderson]

Thanks guys, also wondering if i can get a 90+ atar after sitting the actual hsc with my internal marks ( assuming i do a lot of work)
Adv Eng - 86/100 rank 4/20
Maths -65/100 rank 6/15
Economics - 76/100 rank 3/8
Legal - 93/100 rank 2/16
Business - 94/100 rank 1/18

[RuiAce]

Thanks guys, also wondering if i can get a 90+ atar after sitting the actual hsc with my internal marks ( assuming i do a lot of work)
Adv Eng - 86/100 rank 4/20
Maths -65/100 rank 6/15
Economics - 76/100 rank 3/8
Legal - 93/100 rank 2/16
Business - 94/100 rank 1/18

Yes.

[jamonwindeyer]

Thanks guys, also wondering if i can get a 90+ atar after sitting the actual hsc with my internal marks ( assuming i do a lot of work)
Adv Eng - 86/100 rank 4/20
Maths -65/100 rank 6/15
Economics - 76/100 rank 3/8
Legal - 93/100 rank 2/16
Business - 94/100 rank 1/18

Absolutely!! You've got an awesome set of marks there, really focus on improving your Mathematics results because everything else is in a fantastic spot to hit that 90+ goal if you work hard, you can achieve whatever mark you want to!

[conic curve]

Isn't there a specific way HSC marks are calculated for courses sat outside of school? Pretend you sat a course with an outside tutor (e.g. 3U maths) and the exams he made you sit were really hard and you ended up getting 60s for those exams and in the external HSC exam everyone does, you get 100 for the exam. How is your raw HSC mark calculated by then? I know that BOSTES takes into account school marks and ranks (mainly ranks) to scale everyone equally because every school's exam differs in difficulty but how does this happen for courses with an outside tutor, especially when you're doing it one to one and how your external tutor's exam is much harder than actual school's? I'd be unfair if they took it for your actual mark you got in the exam, they should only be doing that if the internal exams are either easier or on par with difficulty with the actual HSC paper

[RuiAce]

Isn't there a specific way HSC marks are calculated for courses sat outside of school? Pretend you sat a course with an outside tutor (e.g. 3U maths) and the exams he made you sit were really hard and you ended up getting 60s for those exams and in the external HSC exam everyone does, you get 100 for the exam. How is your raw HSC mark calculated by then? I know that BOSTES takes into account school marks and ranks (mainly ranks) to scale everyone equally because every school's exam differs in difficulty but how does this happen for courses with an outside tutor, especially when you're doing it one to one and how your external tutor's exam is much harder than actual school's? I'd be unfair if they took it for your actual mark you got in the exam, they should only be doing that if the internal exams are either easier or on par with difficulty with the actual HSC paper

If you do a course by private tutoring and you're the only student, then effectively because of how moderation works your final exam mark is basically what mark you get reported. (The idea is: A candidature of 1 is completely FREE from moderation.)

That being said, private tutoring does benefit people who are actually THAT good.

[jakesilove]

Isn't there a specific way HSC marks are calculated for courses sat outside of school? Pretend you sat a course with an outside tutor (e.g. 3U maths) and the exams he made you sit were really hard and you ended up getting 60s for those exams and in the external HSC exam everyone does, you get 100 for the exam. How is your raw HSC mark calculated by then? I know that BOSTES takes into account school marks and ranks (mainly ranks) to scale everyone equally because every school's exam differs in difficulty but how does this happen for courses with an outside tutor, especially when you're doing it one to one and how your external tutor's exam is much harder than actual school's? I'd be unfair if they took it for your actual mark you got in the exam, they should only be doing that if the internal exams are either easier or on par with difficulty with the actual HSC paper

I think Jamon's original article answers your question. Your raw mark for internal assessments contributes nothing to your final marks; it's your rank, and your HSC results, that matter. If you were the only person in your class, and get 40% the whole way through, but get a 80 in the HSC exam, you will get 80 for your assessment mark as well.

[conic curve]

I think Jamon's original article answers your question. Your raw mark for internal assessments contributes nothing to your final marks; it's your rank, and your HSC results, that matter. If you were the only person in your class, and get 40% the whole way through, but get a 80 in the HSC exam, you will get 80 for your assessment mark as well.

I still don't really get it, because shouldn't it be 60% (as in assessment marks)

Also for people who do courses with outside tutors, where do they sit their external exam (i.e. the HSC exam everyone else sits)?

[RuiAce]

I still don't really get it, because shouldn't it be 60% (as in assessment marks)

Also for people who do courses with outside tutors, where do they sit their external exam (i.e. the HSC exam everyone else sits)?

No. 60% is a raw assessment mark. If you read Jamon's article what you get reported is a moderated and then aligned assessment mark.

Your raw assessment mark in itself is ultimately useless.
_______________________

Where they sit it will be at the tutor's discretion.

[conic curve]

No. 60% is a raw assessment mark. If you read Jamon's article what you get reported is a moderated and then aligned assessment mark.

Your raw assessment mark in itself is ultimately useless.
_______________________

Where they sit it will be at the tutor's discretion.

What? So basically all that matters is the HSC external exam? What's the point of the school assessment and external assessment then if there is an equal weighting of 50% for each? I heard this one girl at ruse came third internally but smashed externals and came first in the state for bio. Was this because her internals were completely redundant or what?