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March 29, 2024, 12:23:00 am

Author Topic: Is this considered cheating?  (Read 2398 times)  Share 

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Unknown-111

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Is this considered cheating?
« on: September 14, 2020, 02:17:16 pm »
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Hey guys we just had a methods SAC and some classes had it earlier than others. My class just had it last week and some classes have it at the end of this week, so that means any students from another class can have access to the methods SAC and I know some of my friends who got their tutors to work out all the answers for them. Is this fair on my class and especially me?

Coolgalbornin03Lo

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2020, 02:42:39 pm »
+8
If your in year 11 it doesn’t really matter but yes it’s cheating. If your in year 12 I suggest you point out this flaw to the teachers!!!!!!
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Unknown-111

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2020, 04:02:51 pm »
+1
If your in year 11 it doesn’t really matter but yes it’s cheating. If your in year 12 I suggest you point out this flaw to the teachers!!!!!!
This happened in year 12 too according to some of my classmates. But yeah teachers can't do much, this is online so cheating is bound to happen :(

S_R_K

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 09:32:12 am »
+4
I think VCAA requires that, where there are multiple classes doing the same subject, all classes should do the same SAC (or same part of a SAC) within the same week. It's not ideal, and it can be unfair on some students / classes, although schools generally try to balance this out across the year (ie. if class A does SAC 1 first, then they do SAC 2 last).

As for getting tutors to work out answers for you - yes this is clearly cheating. Hopefully your school has some reasonable authentication processes, which could be correlating SAC results against other more reliable assessments. You could always go the wikileaks route and leave your teachers an anonymous tip of who the culprits could be...

Unknown-111

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 12:45:20 pm »
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I think VCAA requires that, where there are multiple classes doing the same subject, all classes should do the same SAC (or same part of a SAC) within the same week. It's not ideal, and it can be unfair on some students / classes, although schools generally try to balance this out across the year (ie. if class A does SAC 1 first, then they do SAC 2 last).

As for getting tutors to work out answers for you - yes this is clearly cheating. Hopefully your school has some reasonable authentication processes, which could be correlating SAC results against other more reliable assessments. You could always go the wikileaks route and leave your teachers an anonymous tip of who the culprits could be...
Yikes, I think this issue has been happening the whole year now at my school and teachers don't seem to notice anything. I really don't want classes to all be doing it at different times just because some classes will have more revision time or have access to the test before the actual date. Obviously I hope tutors don't assist students to cheat I feel like this is quite unfair on others who don't have a tutor for that subject.

S_R_K

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2020, 01:34:26 pm »
+1
Yikes, I think this issue has been happening the whole year now at my school and teachers don't seem to notice anything. I really don't want classes to all be doing it at different times just because some classes will have more revision time or have access to the test before the actual date. Obviously I hope tutors don't assist students to cheat I feel like this is quite unfair on others who don't have a tutor for that subject.

I'd be surprised if your teachers aren't noticing. The problem is that suspicion is not enough to take action against cheaters. The evidence needs to be quite damning, and circumstantial stuff like a student performing slightly better than expected, or students having the same or similar incorrect answers is not enough.

One thing schools can do is ask suspected students to appear before a SAC breach panel, where the evidence against them is presented, and the students are asked to explain why their work is authentic. Schools may do this already knowing that the student is unlikely to be penalised, but it can send a strong message that teachers are vigilant and serious about cheating.

a weaponized ikea chair

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2020, 06:14:20 pm »
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This is unrelated, but if I know that someone is cheating in VCE, should I dob them in? I don't want to be hindered by cheaters.

The Cat In The Hat

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2020, 09:00:20 pm »
+1
This is unrelated, but if I know that someone is cheating in VCE, should I dob them in? I don't want to be hindered by cheaters.
How do you know this? I mean is it just they did better than expected, or that you saw them looking at notes in a closed book SAC, or did they say they cheated, or what? So, do you have actual evidence etc.? Does anyone else know, and thus may they dob them in instead? If you dob them in, can the teachers have the choice whether to do anything about it or not?

I don't know there's a 'should' about it. Cheaters will get their own 'reward'.
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Coolgalbornin03Lo

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2020, 09:44:24 pm »
+1

'Cheaters will get their own 'reward'.

Good SAC scores and study scores they didn’t work hard for    :P especially in English and other subjects were SACs are 50:50 so can carry you hard even if you perform as you normally would on the exam. It’s so messed up this year :(
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keltingmeith

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2020, 10:20:09 pm »
+2
Good SAC scores and study scores they didn’t work hard for    :P especially in English and other subjects were SACs are 50:50 so can carry you hard even if you perform as you normally would on the exam. It’s so messed up this year :(

I mean, look, I know it feels like it's all special to this year - but I'm gonna be honest, every time I hear about cheating from someone this year, it matches how people used to cheat back when I did VCE. Maybe more people are doing it now? Maybe it's easier? I don't know, but none of the methods sound new - and people were still caught out, people still weren't benefitted too much by it. It's really easy to get caught up in a story where you're all disadvantaged, but I don't think it's really helping anyone to do so, and you're all better off focusing on doing your best. That being said:

I don't know there's a 'should' about it. Cheaters will get their own 'reward'.

I don't what you mean by their own "reward"? I don't think their cheating is actually benefitting them that much, but you make it sound like they'll be punished for their cheating. How can they be punished for it if they're not called out for it??

---

As for calling people out on cheating - I'm divided. If you think the person has benefitted greatly from it, and in doing so will disadvantage you greatly, it may be worth calling it out if you actually know they cheated (as Cat in the Hat said, just because they seem to be suspiciously doing well doesn't mean they cheated. They may have just figured out a studying technique that suddenly works for them). However, if you become known as the guy who tells on other students, they may not want to continue associating with you - and having a support network in year 12 is vital.

Speaking purely morally and ethically? Yeah, sure, should call out things as you see them. But you should also think about self-preservation.

a weaponized ikea chair

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2020, 09:06:56 am »
+1

As for calling people out on cheating - I'm divided. If you think the person has benefitted greatly from it, and in doing so will disadvantage you greatly, it may be worth calling it out if you actually know they cheated (as Cat in the Hat said, just because they seem to be suspiciously doing well doesn't mean they cheated. They may have just figured out a studying technique that suddenly works for them). However, if you become known as the guy who tells on other students, they may not want to continue associating with you - and having a support network in year 12 is vital.

Speaking purely morally and ethically? Yeah, sure, should call out things as you see them. But you should also think about self-preservation.

I generally am friends with a handful of people and generally dislike everyone else. If they were cheating, and I was confident they were, I would dob them in.

The Cat In The Hat

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2020, 09:42:06 am »
+1
I don't what you mean by their own "reward"? I don't think their cheating is actually benefitting them that much, but you make it sound like they'll be punished for their cheating. How can they be punished for it if they're not called out for it??
I was meaning more in terms of what that speaks for their character, values and attitudes throughout life. If they don't have the practise of working HARD for good marks, rather than cheating, that may hinder them in future.
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S_R_K

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2020, 10:40:34 am »
+5
Let's say that you know, or have good reason to believe, that another student has cheated. However, your evidence for this is not something that something that would stand up in a formal investigation (perhaps the student told you something, but it's easy for them to deny this in front of teachers).

I would still advise you to speak to your teachers. Not about that particular student, and not for the purpose of catching a particular cheater. But you can describe the opportunities that students had to cheat, what sorts of things students could do to gain an unfair advantage, etc. so that the teachers can consider if there's something they can do in the future to make the assessments fairer.

Rose34

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Re: Is this considered cheating?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2020, 08:30:57 pm »
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If people cheat now, what are they going to do in the final exam? Not sure about your school, but the Methods students in my school are very competitive so they would definitely not give questions for the other students so the others get higher than them, I mean who would even do that? Anyways, the people in your class must be really nice that they share the questions with others.