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Author Topic: Foods For Immune System:  (Read 5519 times)  Share 

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lazaward

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Foods For Immune System:
« on: February 17, 2018, 03:37:03 pm »
0
Hi everyone,

Is there any foods that help to prevent getting sick (cold, flu, headaches)? I want to try keep in my best health during my last year of school and avoid getting sick, especially because I take public transport a lot. Also, does anyone have any experience with multivitamins? Thanks

kauac

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2018, 04:02:41 pm »
0
Hi everyone,

Is there any foods that help to prevent getting sick (cold, flu, headaches)? I want to try keep in my best health during my last year of school and avoid getting sick, especially because I take public transport a lot. Also, does anyone have any experience with multivitamins? Thanks

Hi there...

Multivitamins are a helpful supplement if your intake of vitamins/minerals may be towards the lower side of acceptable...But if you are already consuming adequate levels of these in your foods, then there's probably not much of a need to use them. I used them for a few weeks, and I don't feel they made any difference - but then again, the effects aren't instantaneous!  ;D

As for foods for good health, I know its cliche, but the 5 serves of veg, 2 serves of fruit per day is a really handy trick! Some ways of integrating this goal into your daily diet might be: having a piece of fruit/veg as a snack, having salad as a side in dinners, and even sneaking vegies into recipes (my fav is grated carrot and zucchini in spaghetti bolognese sauce). Also, I feel like regular exercise & drinking plenty of water may help in avoiding sickness, but I can't think of any scientific evidence for that atm.

Finally, remember, sometimes sickness is unavoidable. Don't stress if you can't study as much as when you are healthy - that was my biggest downfall last year - as it will most likely take longer to become healthy again (some weird psychological effect). The best way to get back on your feet would be to have plenty of fluids and rest.  :D


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The Special One

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 07:30:34 pm »
-1
I personally swear by grapefruit. Not sure if it's scientific may or may not be. But it works for me haven't been to the doctor in 10 years.

In saying that I do still catch colds from people so stay away from those that are sick.

Health science is very finicky and changes every week or so with a new claim lol stick to the classic remedies like vitamins c and hot tea abd soup and you should be okay.
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K888

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 10:30:15 pm »
+5
Hi everyone,

Is there any foods that help to prevent getting sick (cold, flu, headaches)? I want to try keep in my best health during my last year of school and avoid getting sick, especially because I take public transport a lot. Also, does anyone have any experience with multivitamins? Thanks
Honestly what will stop you getting headaches is making sure you drink plenty of water!
Plus, getting plenty of sleep is also good for you. :)

There's not really any superfoods that are going to stop you getting sick, unfortunately - getting sick is sometimes an unavoidable thing! Like kauac touched on, it's important to not be too harsh on yourself in terms of how much you study when you're sick.
You'll only get benefits from taking vitamin supplements if you're actually deficient in those particular vitamins. Buying every bottle of tablets that Swisse offer won't make you Superman, unfortunately.

Keeping up activity levels is great for your health - exercise has all sorts of health benefits! You can also try to make sure you eat plenty of fruit and veggies, and monitor things like your sugar intake. Also, make sure you wash your hands! So many people get sick from failing to wash their hands properly. :) If you're catching public transport often, maybe also try to avoid touching surfaces that lots of other people have touched.

In terms of staying more healthy in general, finding a good GP is also great - getting a checkup every now and then can be important for maintaining health. You don't just take your car to the mechanic's when it's broken, do you? No, you get it serviced to keep things running smoothly! The same principle applies for your body ;) (apologies for strained analogy)

vox nihili

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 12:06:40 am »
+6
kauac and K888's advice here is really great so I'm not going to bang on about anything.

For most people, particularly young people with a healthy diet, multivitamins do very little but make expensive piss. You're best advised to eat a health, well-balanced diet, get plenty of sleep, exercise regularly and manage stress. All of these things will help keep you healthy and give you the best chance of avoiding getting sick. As K888 said though, colds are sometimes unavoidable.

We often hear a lot of hype around various supplements, as The Special One intimated, however the studies that generate this hype are often quite flawed and soon rebutted by better designed studies. For instance, I recently spoke to a doctor who said that the evidence is moving away from vitamin C for preventing colds (there's absolutely no strong evidence to suggest it makes any difference) and towards vitamin D; however, this assertion also appears to be flawed, as the studies that established this effect are pretty poor. At this point, there's not enough evidence to recommend vitamin D supplementation for that purpose, particularly in healthy individuals. If you are, however, a post-menopausal woman living in a nursing home, then great, take some vitamin D, it'll do you a lot of good. Otherwise, very little evidence that it's useful, which can be said for most supplements.

If you're interested, healthy eating guidelines are here: https://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/file/your_health/healthy/nutrition/n55a_australian_dietary_guidelines_summary_131014_1.pdf
Exercise guidelines are here: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/content/health-pubhlth-strateg-phys-act-guidelines#apa1317
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The Special One

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 05:39:21 pm »
-3
Okay well Harvard published data recently supporting vitamin c having an impact on cold prevention and relieving symptoms.

And while yes it's unclear whether or not vitamin helps  prevent colds.  As it's a very hard thing to prove anyway.

Most scientific studies show it has at least a marginal benefit towards relieving symptoms and shortening the duration of a cold.

'Our bodies don't make vitamin C, but we need it for immune function, bone structure, iron absorption, and healthy skin'

It for sure helps our immune system when it's time to fight an infection. And a boosted immune system way work at eliminating colds faster.

Moreover a very convincing  Harvard study showed the following

'The most convincing evidence to date comes from a 2013 review of 29 randomized trials with more than 11,000 participants. Researchers found that among extremely active people—such as marathon runners, skiers, and Army troops doing heavy exercise in subarctic conditions—taking at least 200 mg of vitamin C every day appeared to cut the risk of getting a cold in half.'

https://www.health.harvard.edu/cold-and-flu/can-vitamin-c-prevent-a-cold

I think there's a benefit tbh it may be marginal it may be impacted by the placebo effect whatever. I've found it to work for myself so I have to recommend it despite the lack of convincing  evidence.

End of the day it's never harmful  to have some oranges. So may as well. I'd rather be optimist than say just pray for the best you are powerless to prevent colds.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 05:42:42 pm by The Special One »
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Sine

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 05:50:50 pm »
+2
Just noting that if OP/or anyone wanted any proper and individual medical advice please talk to your general practitioner or other medical specialist about it.

Hi everyone,

Is there any foods that help to prevent getting sick (cold, flu, headaches)? I want to try keep in my best health during my last year of school and avoid getting sick, especially because I take public transport a lot. Also, does anyone have any experience with multivitamins? Thanks
Just make sure to eat a lot of vegetables, drink enough water and get a suitable amount of sleep. Ultimately keeping healthy won't always be up to your own actions so sometimes illness is unavoidable. As others have alluded to multivitamins generally won't be necessary for a highschooler with a balanced diet.


vox nihili

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 08:20:37 pm »
+11
Okay well Harvard published data recently supporting vitamin c having an impact on cold prevention and relieving symptoms.

And while yes it's unclear whether or not vitamin helps  prevent colds.  As it's a very hard thing to prove anyway.

Most scientific studies show it has at least a marginal benefit towards relieving symptoms and shortening the duration of a cold.

'Our bodies don't make vitamin C, but we need it for immune function, bone structure, iron absorption, and healthy skin'

It for sure helps our immune system when it's time to fight an infection. And a boosted immune system way work at eliminating colds faster.

Moreover a very convincing  Harvard study showed the following

'The most convincing evidence to date comes from a 2013 review of 29 randomized trials with more than 11,000 participants. Researchers found that among extremely active people—such as marathon runners, skiers, and Army troops doing heavy exercise in subarctic conditions—taking at least 200 mg of vitamin C every day appeared to cut the risk of getting a cold in half.'

https://www.health.harvard.edu/cold-and-flu/can-vitamin-c-prevent-a-cold

I think there's a benefit tbh it may be marginal it may be impacted by the placebo effect whatever. I've found it to work for myself so I have to recommend it despite the lack of convincing  evidence.

End of the day it's never harmful  to have some oranges. So may as well. I'd rather be optimist than say just pray for the best you are powerless to prevent colds.

You've grossly misrepresented this study.

1. These are not Harvard data. A researcher at Harvard merely reported on this study. The data are from multiple sources, but the systematic review and metanalysis (a pooling of many studies) were conducted by researchers at the University of Helsinki and overseen by the Cochrane collaboration's Acute Respiratory Infections group.

2. It is not hard at all to determine whether vitamin C prevents colds. Indeed, it's very simple. You give one big group a vitamin C, and another group a placebo and see who catches more colds. In fact, lots of researchers have done this before; that's why there's now an enormous meta-analysis to show us that vitamin C doesn't prevent colds (my assertion above).

For the pedants, it makes an extremely marginal difference. Here's the Forrest plot:



3. Needing Vitamin C for the function of the immune system, construction of tissues etc does not mean that it supplementation is necessary. Our bodies need fat to survive, yet nobody in their right mind would recommend giving it as a supplement. This is because we get enough of it in our diet. Vitamin D, on the other hand, is sometimes supplemented (even though our bodies can make it), because studies have shown that it can be useful to certain people. Critically, in this case, studies have shown. In the case of vitamin C, they have not.

4. There is some evidence that vitamin C supplementation will reduce the duration of colds marginally. For an adult, this is by 7% and for children 14%. These data are fairly convincing; however, they are only relevant to people who regularly take Vitamin C. Starting vitamin C when cold symptoms begin makes no difference at all.

5. The results around severe physical stress/severe cold were interesting. They do appear to point to the fact that vitamin C, in this setting, will reduce the incidence (i.e. number of new cases of) cold. However, the characterisation by the Harvard article (which doesn't have a reference btw, a big warning sign) of this as convincing evidence is highly misleading. The reality is that these studies really don't apply to the normal population. They're in a very select subgroup of the population that doesn't represent the broader population. We know this, because studies in the broader population show that vitamin C is useless. I am a little bit suspicious about these studies; I'm finding it difficult to understand why someone would pick that subgroup to research. That's only speculation though, so should be taken with a grain of salt.

6. I think your conclusion here is a little more measured than the rest of your post. It's really great that you're interested and engaged in a lot of issues, but if you're going to take a high-and-mighty tone to your posts and laud your intellect over other people, you would want to be very careful to ensure that the statements you're making are accurate. You'd get away with a lot more if you demonstrated a little bit of humility. For instance, instead of getting on your high horse and assuming that your analysis of the situation is correct (it wasn't), you could ask a question. This is particularly advisable when you're challenging the views of someone who likely has a more nuanced understanding of this topic than you. I'd like to think that, despite some of my own foibles, if I were to disagree with you on a matter of jurisprudence I would be more careful not to respond in such a self-assured way.
In terms of reading science, it's always a good idea to try to find the original study. If you had read the author's conclusions, you'd see that they were fairly sceptical about vitamin C. They also felt that the evidence regarding its use in extreme exercise was fairly equivocal, probably because of how narrow the group was. At the end though, they recommended vitamin C supplementation, because it's so safe and unlikely to do any harm. Personally, I disagree with this as a course of action, because it fails to recognise the cost of vitamin C supplementation as a harm. It also fails to recognise to recognise that alternative methods of obtaining vitamin C, such as what you suggested—eating an orange—might offer added benefits, whilst also being more affordable.
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The Special One

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 09:00:55 pm »
-2
Okay well I did read all that a few things I found were interesting.

'4. There is some evidence that vitamin C supplementation will reduce the duration of colds marginally. For an adult, this is by 7% and for children 14%. These data are fairly convincing; however, they are only relevant to people who regularly take Vitamin C. Starting vitamin C when cold symptoms begin makes no difference at all. '

Okay so I recommend OP starts taking vitamin C from now 7-14% isn't marginal in my opinion.

Another thing is I don't really have a high and mighty tone. I'm not saying this is how it is it will have a guranteed effect.

All I'm saying is look evidence is a bit murky but from my own experiences and a few scientific studies I am of the belief that if  OP is interested in vitamins or foods that can help prevent colds or shorten their duration I would have to recommend vitamin c.

Am I here recommending uranium? Of course not I'm recommending something that can't hurt.

You would need a ridiculous amount of vitamin C before anyone experiences adverse effects, that honestly goes for anything consumed in excess.

Vitamin C is harmlsss and I recommend it whether or not OP wants to take that advice or not is up to them but I think the potential pros outweigh any cons and besides orange juice is delicious and refreshing great way to start the day.

I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that because I'm a law student I have little to no  scientific  knowledge I was actually teetering between law and med for the longest time before I made my choice.

I don't give false facts and I'm not an advocate for pseudoscience!

You said it yourself that extreme  conditions study is hard to explain and as science is always about new findings why is it so hard to believe there are things about vitamin c that we don't understand yet?
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vox nihili

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 09:35:44 pm »
+7
Okay well I did read all that a few things I found were interesting.

'4. There is some evidence that vitamin C supplementation will reduce the duration of colds marginally. For an adult, this is by 7% and for children 14%. These data are fairly convincing; however, they are only relevant to people who regularly take Vitamin C. Starting vitamin C when cold symptoms begin makes no difference at all. '

Okay so I recommend OP starts taking vitamin C from now 7-14% isn't marginal in my opinion.

Another thing is I don't really have a high and mighty tone. I'm not saying this is how it is it will have a guranteed effect.

All I'm saying is look evidence is a bit murky but from my own experiences and a few scientific studies I am of the belief that if  OP is interested in vitamins or foods that can help prevent colds or shorten their duration I would have to recommend vitamin c.

Am I here recommending uranium? Of course not I'm recommending something that can't hurt.

You would need a ridiculous amount of vitamin C before anyone experiences adverse effects, that honestly goes for anything consumed in excess.

Vitamin C is harmlsss and I recommend it whether or not OP wants to take that advice or not is up to them but I think the potential pros outweigh any cons and besides orange juice is delicious and refreshing great way to start the day.

I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that because I'm a law student I have little to no  scientific  knowledge I was actually teetering between law and med for the longest time before I made my choice.

I don't give false facts and I'm not an advocate for pseudoscience!

You said it yourself that extreme  conditions study is hard to explain and as science is always about new findings why is it so hard to believe there are things about vitamin c that we don't understand yet?

Again, you're acting like an authority on something you have no training in and are failing to give even the slightest ground when your claims were clearly debunked.

1. That's literally what I already said.

2. 7% and 14% (we shouldn't say 7-14 because they're distinct data derived from distinct groups) are marginal changes. In a ten day cold, 7% takes less than a day off the cold. Balanced against the costs of buying vitamin C, it's really not worth it for most people. That's why it's not routinely recommended.

3. The evidence isn't murky, it's actually really clear. A meta-analysis of this scale is highly reliable, the opposite of murky.

4. That vitamin C will shorten the duration of colds is absolutely consistent with the evidence. Balanced with the costs, however, the gains are not worth it for most people. This obviously depends on the individual's capacity to pay, but for most it's unlikely to make much sense.

5. Orange juice is great as a source of vitamin C, but it's also great as a source of sugar. We shouldn't rely upon it as a healthy alternative, because mostly it's not. You're better to eat an actual orange, or if you insist on juice, make sure it has no added sugar and isn't pulp free.

6. I think it's a bit presumptuous to presume that I said that you have little scientific knowledge because you're a law student. I think you have little scientific knowledge because your posts have demonstrated that lack of knowledge consistently.

7. Again, you're basing your argument on a false premise (cmon, you're a law student, surely I can presume that you're better than that). There's plenty we don't know about vitamin C. We do know, however, that it makes a marginal difference to colds. See above.
It was hard to explain the purpose of the extreme conditions study. Just odd that they went that direction with it, but with that said, my knowledge of the evidence is not good enough to make any serious comment about why they did that. As I said, it was an unreliable presumption.
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The Special One

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 09:46:43 pm »
0
I think if OP was concerned  about the post he wounding be asking about potential superfoods and supplements.

Most orange juice I know from the store or farms is 100% natural with no added sugar. Also I don't know why you mentioned pulp it's a preference thing doesn't add or detract anything nutrition wise.

I think perhaps you should look at some vitamin c megadose studies

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10543583

Evidence looks pretty good


I have to come to the conclusion that vitamin c has at least some benefit when it comes to colds.

Feel free to disagree but that's the advice I'm giving to the op and others viewing the thread. Drink a glass of ornage  juice a day, together with a hearty breakfast and I think you'll be healthier in the long term. I also think you'll see a reduction in colds.

I myself love vitamin c and usually go over the recommended limit and I have very few colds maybe at most 1 per year.


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prickles

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 09:54:07 pm »
+1
I myself love vitamin c and usually go over the recommended limit and I have very few colds maybe at most 1 per year.
Can I just add - Vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin, meaning that we can't store it in our body. Once the body reaches it's necessary intake, it flushes any excess vitamin C out. It is then essential to have it day to day, BUT, I disagree to what you state in the above quote. Just because you have above the recommended dose can't be the only factor that leads to you have your apparent 1 cold per year. Anything that you have above the recommended limit will be useless to your body, and therefore does not render you semi-invincible to colds.

The Special One

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 09:54:58 pm »
-4
Can I just add - Vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin, meaning that we can't store it in our body. Once the body reaches it's necessary intake, it flushes any excess vitamin C out. It is then essential to have it day to day, BUT, I disagree to what you state in the above quote. Just because you have above the recommended dose can't be the only factor that leads to you have your apparent 1 cold per year. Anything that you have above the recommended limit will be useless to your body, and therefore does not render you semi-invincible to colds.


Check out this study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10543583
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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2018, 09:57:15 pm »
+6
^ Not here to start an argument, but that study that you linked is from almost 20 years ago. Do you have any more recent peer reviewed literature to support your statement?

vox nihili

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Re: Foods For Immune System:
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 10:03:06 pm »
+7
I think if OP was concerned  about the post he wounding be asking about potential superfoods and supplements.

Most orange juice I know from the store or farms is 100% natural with no added sugar. Also I don't know why you mentioned pulp it's a preference thing doesn't add or detract anything nutrition wise.

I think perhaps you should look at some vitamin c megadose studies

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10543583

Evidence looks pretty good


I have to come to the conclusion that vitamin c has at least some benefit when it comes to colds.

Feel free to disagree but that's the advice I'm giving to the op and others viewing the thread. Drink a glass of ornage  juice a day, together with a hearty breakfast and I think you'll be healthier in the long term. I also think you'll see a reduction in colds.

I myself love vitamin c and usually go over the recommended limit and I have very few colds maybe at most 1 per year.

Don't make claims that you can't back up ffs.

1. I don't even understand why you're making that point. There are obviously different types of orange juice, I made the recommendation that it have no added sugar. You're just repeating me but casting it as an argument.

2. "Pulp is a preference thing, it doesn't add or detract anything nutrition wise" is a load of crap. Pulp increases the bulk of the juice. It's effectively just fibre, so it doesn't have a lot of sugar in it. Orange juices without pulp have a lot more sugar, because a lot more oranges go into making them. Orange juice with pulp has a lot less sugar and also makes you feel fuller more quickly because it's more dense, thereby reducing the amount of sugar you take in.
Juices without pulp are extremely sugary and only marginally better than a soft drink (sometimes not).

3. "I think perhaps you should look at some vitamin c megadose studies". Again with a smart arse tone, yet again so wrong. If you'd bothered to read the Cochrane meta-analysis (which is a higher level of evidence than one shitty study from 1999), you'd see that they concluded that there's no benefit to therapeutic vitamin C. I already mentioned that two posts ago, and pointed you to the evidence for it, but thank you for your recommendation.

4. The evidence does not look pretty good, stop talking shit.

5. By saying feel free to disagree you cast this as necessarily a matter of opinion. That's fine. I genuinely value people's right to express an opinion and get a real kick out of discussing issues with people's whose opinions are different to mine.
You, however, aren't advancing an opinion. You're giving crappy advice based on alternative facts. I understand that you want to cast yourself as an intellectual, and for sure you're clearly a very smart person, but how on earth do you expect to ever learn anything when you so stubbornly refuse to believe that anybody who graces this earth could possibly be right where you are wrong? I used to be like this too. Couldn't admit anything I said was wrong for fear of losing my pride. It made me miserable; I can only hope it doesn't do the same to you.

^ Not here to start an argument, but that study that you linked is from almost 20 years ago. Do you have any more recent peer reviewed literature to support your statement?

I do: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD000980.pub4/abstract

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