getting a job when you have no experience--referees

[strawberries]

hi guys,

I was just wondering, what should you do if you're applying for a job yet you don't have any referees you can put down?
not in high school anymore, and all teachers hated me anyway so I can't put them down.
don't know any uni teachers.
had a previous job but the managers have all changed and such (so basically I'm not in contact w/ anyone).
and I haven't been involved in any clubs or volunteering
also don't have family friends either
some places actually ask for business/work/academic/professional referees too...(like in the application form there's no choice to not fill out a referee)

secondary question

also, what do you put on your resume when you have no experience in anything? all I have is a VCE certificate and I didn't do many extracurriculars and stuff.
I have worked for a few years in fast food, but I don't think that helps as I haven't learnt anything from it

anyone know what I can do??

thanks

[K888]

Hey strawberries!
Sounds like a bit of a predicament!
Do you know if any colleagues from your old job still work there? Could they potentially be a referee? Also I see you said you worked in fast food - even if the old managers aren't there, if you get in contact, hopefully the new managers might be able to help out

Otherwise, I'd recommend having a chat to some staff at the uni - I think there are careers advisors and all that? They might have some suggestions.
You could also potentially approach your unit coordinators, even if you don't know them Even if they can't help, they might be able to point you in the right direction.
I'd also recommend contacting your school - I don't think your teachers actually hated you, and potentially even the head of senior school or someone in one of the more senior positions might be willing to help out Worth a shot getting in contact. It's certainly the case at my high school that they're willing to help their alumni out, so hopefully it might be the same at yours.
Worst comes to worst, you can always put friends down - they can be great as character references, and it's better than nothing. Maybe also consider seeing if you can do something volunteer-wise to start getting to know some people that could also act as referees in the future?

There are a number of jobs that don't require you to give referees or won't contact them - these tend to be the ones where hiring is done in person (i.e. not online) where you might just hand in a resume or go in and chat to the manager - sometimes these jobs might be a bit more "dodgy" than other ones, they might be cash in hand, but it's better than nothing.

In response to your second question - play up your experience in fast food. Make sure you put it in there, describe what you did, how it helped you with teamwork skills, etc. Even if you feel like you didn't learn anything/develop any skills from it, I can guarantee you that you probably did - working under pressure, working in a team environment, and all that.
If you ever did volunteer stuff through high school, put that in there.

Hope this helped

[PhoenixxFire]

Lie. Well not quite. White lies work well. You worked in fast food so depending on where you're applying say you're experienced with customers and handling money etc. - If you did food safety stuff at your old job and its relevant you can mention that. In terms of references is there a friends parent you could put down?
Be aware though that they are likely to ask why you left your previous job DO NOT complain about anything here - especially your boss. They may also ask you more details about what you learnt eg. How to deal with an angry customer or something.

Also getting an RSA (responsible service of alcohol) can give you more areas to apply. Also I don't know if they exist in Canberra (they do in melbourne) but if they do there is food safety and barrista training courses that would help.

Also not sure if this is relevant to Canberra but my brother interviewed at some job agency thing - employers go to them to find ppl to hire. Through them he is doing a VET hospitality course - paid for by the government. Effectively the government is paying for him to make alcoholic drinks lol. As part of it he has to do work experience - Doing well in this could lead to a job.

[cooldude123]

That's a bit tricky but I reckon you could do some things- find some volunteering opportunities/contact people anyway/in the meantime apply for more jobs (that don't require referees).

Volunteering/extracurricular/anything that has coworkers or managers are likely to be sufficient to be good referees - most employers are likely to call past employers to verify you worked there and not much more so it's not as important (note this may be different for certain things like grad programs or certain scholarships) so joining a few and just being involved on a semi-casual basis should be enough.

Some other ideas is you could just approach a tutor in a uni class and just ask them if they could be a reference - they're usually happy to oblige if they have some idea who you are for academic references so employment should be similar, or just mass contact people you have ever interacted with - such as teachers (even if you didn't talk much in class or whatever, they're happy to at least say you were a student and write generally positive things) or co-workers/managers even if they don't work there any more (remember most jobs just want proof that you have done anything at all). Last resort- even friends or family friends/relatives can be a character reference - though as a general rule do try to contact your potential references that you want them to be a reference in case they have a negative impression of you.

As for the application process for jobs, it is a pretty competitive process (especially for entry-level jobs suited for uni students) but try applying for jobs that don't have reference requirements (you can kinda get around this by saying you'll provide references on request and it won't stop you from getting an interview etc.) - and don't get disheartened if you get rejected from jobs (there are sometimes thousands of applicants applying for a few positions and it can come down to luck whether you even get an interview). Adapting your resume and cover letter slightly to be specific for the job role and requirements can help though. 

As for resume material - do spend some time on framing your experience in a positive manner - such as fast food experience is quite valuable if you describe how you did food and cash handling, customer service, hospitality experience (which are all very valuable attributes) had or any extracurriculars like debating can be described as speaking skills, teamwork, high pressure environment etc. Careers counsellors (like Monash Careers Connect or the equivalent at other unis) usually have sessions where you can review your CV which can help too.

Check on your university's website for a career directory (Monash - Career Gateway, Melbourne - Careers Online, ANU - Career Hub) which will also have targeted listings where employers advertise jobs - they can look more favourably upon your app if you're applying from that uni and there is usually less competition than publicly advertised roles.

[strawberries]

hey guys thanks for the replies!
preceded to ask a question which wasn't my subject title -.- lol

spoiler texting it cos I don't want this to turn out a massive post

thanks for your replies

Do you know if any colleagues from your old job still work there? Could they potentially be a referee? Also I see you said you worked in fast food - even if the old managers aren't there, if you get in contact, hopefully the new managers might be able to help out

Otherwise, I'd recommend having a chat to some staff at the uni - I think there are careers advisors and all that? They might have some suggestions.
You could also potentially approach your unit coordinators, even if you don't know them Even if they can't help, they might be able to point you in the right direction.
I'd also recommend contacting your school - I don't think your teachers actually hated you, and potentially even the head of senior school or someone in one of the more senior positions might be willing to help out Worth a shot getting in contact. It's certainly the case at my high school that they're willing to help their alumni out, so hopefully it might be the same at yours.
Worst comes to worst, you can always put friends down - they can be great as character references, and it's better than nothing. Maybe also consider seeing if you can do something volunteer-wise to start getting to know some people that could also act as referees in the future?

There are a number of jobs that don't require you to give referees or won't contact them - these tend to be the ones where hiring is done in person (i.e. not online) where you might just hand in a resume or go in and chat to the manager - sometimes these jobs might be a bit more "dodgy" than other ones, they might be cash in hand, but it's better than nothing.

In response to your second question - play up your experience in fast food. Make sure you put it in there, describe what you did, how it helped you with teamwork skills, etc. Even if you feel like you didn't learn anything/develop any skills from it, I can guarantee you that you probably did - working under pressure, working in a team environment, and all that.
If you ever did volunteer stuff through high school, put that in there.

I guess I'm just kinda scared to approach people, but yeah, I'll try. I do have a very bad relationship with my school though (and it's entiremy my fault )
I don't really know any of my old colleagues and don't really have any friends.

Lie. Well not quite. White lies work well. You worked in fast food so depending on where you're applying say you're experienced with customers and handling money etc. - If you did food safety stuff at your old job and its relevant you can mention that. In terms of references is there a friends parent you could put down?
Be aware though that they are likely to ask why you left your previous job DO NOT complain about anything here - especially your boss. They may also ask you more details about what you learnt eg. How to deal with an angry customer or something.

Also getting an RSA (responsible service of alcohol) can give you more areas to apply. Also I don't know if they exist in Canberra (they do in melbourne) but if they do there is food safety and barrista training courses that would help.

Also not sure if this is relevant to Canberra but my brother interviewed at some job agency thing - employers go to them to find ppl to hire. Through them he is doing a VET hospitality course - paid for by the government. Effectively the government is paying for him to make alcoholic drinks lol. As part of it he has to do work experience - Doing well in this could lead to a job.

I left cos I moved here to study so yeah I won't be complaining and all that
also have done an RSA

That's a bit tricky but I reckon you could do some things- find some volunteering opportunities/contact people anyway/in the meantime apply for more jobs (that don't require referees).

Volunteering/extracurricular/anything that has coworkers or managers are likely to be sufficient to be good referees - most employers are likely to call past employers to verify you worked there and not much more so it's not as important (note this may be different for certain things like grad programs or certain scholarships) so joining a few and just being involved on a semi-casual basis should be enough.

Some other ideas is you could just approach a tutor in a uni class and just ask them if they could be a reference - they're usually happy to oblige if they have some idea who you are for academic references so employment should be similar, or just mass contact people you have ever interacted with - such as teachers (even if you didn't talk much in class or whatever, they're happy to at least say you were a student and write generally positive things) or co-workers/managers even if they don't work there any more (remember most jobs just want proof that you have done anything at all). Last resort- even friends or family friends/relatives can be a character reference - though as a general rule do try to contact your potential references that you want them to be a reference in case they have a negative impression of you.

As for the application process for jobs, it is a pretty competitive process (especially for entry-level jobs suited for uni students) but try applying for jobs that don't have reference requirements (you can kinda get around this by saying you'll provide references on request and it won't stop you from getting an interview etc.) - and don't get disheartened if you get rejected from jobs (there are sometimes thousands of applicants applying for a few positions and it can come down to luck whether you even get an interview). Adapting your resume and cover letter slightly to be specific for the job role and requirements can help though. 

As for resume material - do spend some time on framing your experience in a positive manner - such as fast food experience is quite valuable if you describe how you did food and cash handling, customer service, hospitality experience (which are all very valuable attributes) had or any extracurriculars like debating can be described as speaking skills, teamwork, high pressure environment etc. Careers counsellors (like Monash Careers Connect or the equivalent at other unis) usually have sessions where you can review your CV which can help too.

Check on your university's website for a career directory (Monash - Career Gateway, Melbourne - Careers Online, ANU - Career Hub) which will also have targeted listings where employers advertise jobs - they can look more favourably upon your app if you're applying from that uni and there is usually less competition than publicly advertised roles.

I really don't want to play up my experience, sometimes I feel like it'd be better to tell them I haven't done anything before? otherwise, they'd expect me to be very fast and efficient, even though I was not. even though i've worked for like 3 years I still don't know how to deal with customers and all that...:/

have done volunteering but it isn't "legit" volunteering. just stuff like, volunteering for single day events and all that.

ps. I also heard it's a bad idea to put down anything you did in high school? esp cos I'm in uni now and not high school so putting down stuff I did in high school (which really wasn't much other than completing VCE) would be like...weird? (cos like i'm not a kid anymore and all that)

but yeah appreciate your replies guys
apologies if any part appeared to be rude. didn't intend to

[K888]

Well strawberries, it sounds like you actually have a reasonable amount of experience to put down! Definitely put down that you have an RSA - not only will it help get you a job in hospitality, but it may also qualify you to be paid more
I honestly think it'll be better for you to put experience in your resume - one of the reasons being a fair few places will just chuck out your resume if there's no experience on there
Doesn't matter if you feel like you're not ace at customer service - you were younger when you were working in fast food, and employers recognise and accept that young people aren't going to be the best person they've ever employed straight away.

Any experience is good experience, though

In terms of high school stuff - you can still put stuff on there, especially considering you're not long out of high school, just make it brief. If you held any leadership positions or won any special awards, list those. If you participated in anything noteworthy, consider listing it. As long as you're just keeping it brief, I think it's perfectly fine to have stuff from high school on there until you get a bit more experience in a job and have spent a bit longer at university

[strawberries]

bump

spoke with the careers centre at uni, and they weren't much help at all...regarding referees, all they said was "try and get some experience, like volunteering"...but I need a job now...(also do not have friends who can be my reference)
many job applications online also have compulsory spaces for 2 referees...including at least one academic/business

[katie,rinos]

bump

spoke with the careers centre at uni, and they weren't much help at all...regarding referees, all they said was "try and get some experience, like volunteering"...but I need a job now...(also do not have friends who can be my reference)
many job applications online also have compulsory spaces for 2 referees...including at least one academic/business

Have you tried walking into a few places and talking to the managers/handing in your resume. Obviously not everywhere will want/need to hire a new person but it might be an ok start and its something you can do without all of the references. I agree that it would be really scary to do but it may work.
I work at a kid's play centre, and the way I got my job is through my mum talking to the manager after my little brother's party and I ended up getting a trial shift and I have worked there for 2 1/2 years. So, definitely not the conventional way (I also suck at job interviews and I didn't have to do one to get my job).
In terms of references-i'm not too sure though.
Hope this can be some help
Edit: Realised that this probably sounds a bit lame-like don't get your mum to do it (I wasn't even 15 yet), but maybe try to talk to managers and stuff.

[Joseph41]

Only read this thread briefly - will come back to it later.

Just noting not to discount your experience in fast food. Can guarantee that the experience will be looked upon favourably.