Outliers

[paigek3]

How far away does an outlier have to be? In my legal class I'm 8 marks (91%) ahead of second, and some people in my class are getting in the 40s%. Am I far enough ahead to be an outlier or not?

[jamonwindeyer]

How far away does an outlier have to be? In my legal class I'm 8 marks (91%) ahead of second, and some people in my class are getting in the 40s%. Am I far enough ahead to be an outlier or not?

You are first place, so you are automatically an 'outlier' of sorts. Your internal mark is guaranteed to be equal to the highest aligned exam mark in the room - So if you score the highest in the exam, your cohort will have no effect on you whatsoever

[dancing phalanges]

Hey Jamon,
Just a question regarding this. I'm first in French Continuers with 81 but 2nd is on 70, 3rd is on 60 and 4th (we only have 4 in our class) is on 50.
Will their marks affect me? Thanks

[paigek3]

You are first place, so you are automatically an 'outlier' of sorts. Your internal mark is guaranteed to be equal to the highest aligned exam mark in the room - So if you score the highest in the exam, your cohort will have no effect on you whatsoever

Great thanks so much for that!! All this moderating, scaling and all the rest can get a bit overwhelming to figure out sometimes 😅

One more question, if I was to get the top mark in the hsc exam too, would my assessment mark and exam mark be the same? Or are they scaled/moderated differently

[jamonwindeyer]

Hey Jamon,
Just a question regarding this. I'm first in French Continuers with 81 but 2nd is on 70, 3rd is on 60 and 4th (we only have 4 in our class) is on 50.
Will their marks affect me? Thanks

Nope! Provided you come first in the external exam, it will be like they never existed in the first place

Great thanks so much for that!! All this moderating, scaling and all the rest can get a bit overwhelming to figure out sometimes 😅

One more question, if I was to get the top mark in the hsc exam too, would my assessment mark and exam mark be the same? Or are they scaled/moderated differently

^ They would be the same!

[dancing phalanges]

Nope! Provided you come first in the external exam, it will be like they never existed in the first place

^ They would be the same!

Ahh thank you so much, just concerned with how much of a gap there is but glad to hear there's not too much of an impact Cheers!

[nataliekunze]

Hi, I'm curious about outliers for my Ancient History course. Okay so in a class of about 15 people, there are 4 students who are consistently getting marks 15-30% higher than the person placing 5th - would these 4 students be considered outliers, or does this still only apply to the student coming first? If it doesn't apply, is there a difference in marks that will allow the 4 students to become outliers?

[jamonwindeyer]

Hi, I'm curious about outliers for my Ancient History course. Okay so in a class of about 15 people, there are 4 students who are consistently getting marks 15-30% higher than the person placing 5th - would these 4 students be considered outliers, or does this still only apply to the student coming first? If it doesn't apply, is there a difference in marks that will allow the 4 students to become outliers?

Those students definitely wouldn't be considered outliers - Having a smaller group of students performing a decent bit higher than the rest of the class is fairly common.

The idea for those four students would be for them to all score the four highest exam marks on the day of the HSC exam itself. This way, their marks will (sort of, this is a huge simplification of the maths) be swapped around amongst them. This guide explains it properly

Basically, if those four students all perform significantly better than the remaining students in the cohort, in the assessments and the exam, the impact of the remainder of the cohort will be minimised. So, essentially, just working hard to be the best you can is all you can do

[NowYouTseMe]

So how far away from the rest of the cohort would someone have to be to be an outlier?
atm I'm in a mostly highly competitive Legal Studies cohort of 17 but there are a few in the class that are just consistently about 10% below the rest of the group and I'm worried they would drag the scope of internal marks down and affect my mark in the long run.

[jamonwindeyer]

So how far away from the rest of the cohort would someone have to be to be an outlier?
atm I'm in a mostly highly competitive Legal Studies cohort of 17 but there are a few in the class that are just consistently about 10% below the rest of the group and I'm worried they would drag the scope of internal marks down and affect my mark in the long run.

Realistically, what you are talking about is a few people in the class getting, say, 80's instead of 90's? They definitely aren't outliers - 10% below the rest of the cohort is just, like, normal spread. We can't all be in the 90's, aha from what I've read, outliers would need to be significantly below everyone else, for example, a mark of 30 in a class of 80's and 90's.

A handful of people sitting just below the upper tier of a class isn't going to drag anyone down either. In your class of 17, say 12 were on 90 and 5 were on 80. That puts the average mark at 87ish. I know it isn't based on just average marks, but that should demonstrate how small of an impact we are talking about here.

If you were concerned though, perhaps use it as an excuse to help bring them up to where the rest of you are sitting! I'm sure you'd both benefit from that exchange

[clovvy]

So if a bottom ranked student whom all of a sudden performed significantly better than most except a few(like 3 people)...  Perhaps a similar case that I brought up before, can that person be considered an outlier?

[jazcstuart]

I was 18 marks above second place in trials (and that gap has been similar with other assessment tasks), so I was just wondering what would happen if everyone else significantly increased their marks for the internal exam? I feel like this is possible because many people just didn't study for trials but I think they will for HSC. Would that boost everyone's internal marks, and would it affect mine at all?

[jamonwindeyer]

So if a bottom ranked student whom all of a sudden performed significantly better than most except a few(like 3 people)...  Perhaps a similar case that I brought up before, can that person be considered an outlier?

Not in the sense we are talking about here, we are talking about a student doing markedly poorer than the rest of their cohort and what would be suggested by their rank. If someone does much better, this is amazing, but that is likely to still be averaged with some of the lower marks in the room

[jamonwindeyer]

I was 18 marks above second place in trials (and that gap has been similar with other assessment tasks), so I was just wondering what would happen if everyone else significantly increased their marks for the internal exam? I feel like this is possible because many people just didn't study for trials but I think they will for HSC. Would that boost everyone's internal marks, and would it affect mine at all?

You are first, so assuming you also top the exam (sounds likely given how far ahead you are!), you will get averaged with your own mark. It will be like the others didn’t exist