I hate English, but I'm pretty good at it (sorry, English lovers)

[JR_StudyEd]

DISCLAIMER I have nothing against VCAA in any way, just speaking my thoughts and feelings at this moment.

Hi guys,
To give you some context, this year for English I'm studying Frankenstein and Rear Window, as well as Black Diggers & Longest Memory for comparative. Cutting to the chase, I REALLY HATE ENGLISH. I'm not trolling. I just do. And I'm not sure how I'm going to be able to "like" or even "tolerate" it at all. I know that you need it to get a VCE, and I know 99.99% surely an exaggeration of tertiary courses require you to have studied it and studied it well, such as to get into my desired course, Medicine.

And yes, I'm aware of the "I'm shit at writing" thread on this board, which discusses a similar sentiment. The thing is, I'm good at writing, I just hate the subject. I know what you're thinking (change your bloody subject then) but I don't want to. Too inconvenient and disruptive. So I guess I'm stuck with this. I never said I liked it, but I never said I wasn't good at it. How can I deal with this?

Thanks,
John

[Yertle the Turtle]

DISCLAIMER I have nothing against VCAA in any way, just speaking my thoughts and feelings at this moment.

Hi guys,
To give you some context, this year for English I'm studying Frankenstein and Rear Window, as well as Black Diggers & Longest Memory for comparative. Cutting to the chase, I REALLY HATE ENGLISH. I'm not trolling. I just do. And I'm not sure how I'm going to be able to "like" or even "tolerate" it at all. I know that you need it to get a VCE, and I know 99.99% surely an exaggeration of tertiary courses require you to have studied it and studied it well, such as to get into my desired course, Medicine.

And yes, I'm aware of the "I'm shit at writing" thread on this board, which discusses a similar sentiment. The thing is, I'm good at writing, I just hate the subject. I know what you're thinking (change your bloody subject then) but I don't want to. Too inconvenient and disruptive. So I guess I'm stuck with this. I never said I liked it, but I never said I wasn't good at it. How can I deal with this?

Thanks,
John

Look, I had the same problem last year and the year before, and I can give you some advice from hindsight. Don't do what I did, which involved making myself the biggest annoyance in the class, constantly making sure the teacher knew that I hated her subject, getting into arguments all the time, etc. That really messed up my English score, and it left me enjoying the subject and the year even less. As I see it, there are 2 alternative routes.
1. Enjoy it. It is easier to say than to do, but it is possible. I know that it isn't fun, doesn't have much point and is annoyingly forced on us, but there are things that can be enjoyed in it. I think. Being able to read is one.
2. Don't enjoy it, but live with it. I didn't even try to make the best of it, even though there was no other choice, and thus I hated it more. If I had just ignored the dislike and gone ahead and done it I could easily have got a 40+ score, rather than just 37. The fact is that if you just decide that it is an uncomfortable fact of life that you just have to do and live through, and that it needs working on, then you won't sink into a slough of hatred against the subject and English teachers in general.
The second alternative is my advice, but I understand that it is hard, and I was in a very similar position to you last year. Good luck, and I hope it goes well.

[JR_StudyEd]

Look, I had the same problem last year and the year before, and I can give you some advice from hindsight. Don't do what I did, which involved making myself the biggest annoyance in the class, constantly making sure the teacher knew that I hated her subject, getting into arguments all the time, etc. That really messed up my English score, and it left me enjoying the subject and the year even less. As I see it, there are 2 alternative routes.
1. Enjoy it. It is easier to say than to do, but it is possible. I know that it isn't fun, doesn't have much point and is annoyingly forced on us, but there are things that can be enjoyed in it. I think. Being able to read is one.
2. Don't enjoy it, but live with it. I didn't even try to make the best of it, even though there was no other choice, and thus I hated it more. If I had just ignored the dislike and gone ahead and done it I could easily have got a 40+ score, rather than just 37. The fact is that if you just decide that it is an uncomfortable fact of life that you just have to do and live through, and that it needs working on, then you won't sink into a slough of hatred against the subject and English teachers in general.
The second alternative is my advice, but I understand that it is hard, and I was in a very similar position to you last year. Good luck, and I hope it goes well.

Thanks Yertle!

What I've highlighted in bold is kind of what I'm questioning. Is it OK to let my English teacher know, in a constructive and reasonable manner, that I dislike Year 12 English, but not VCAA, her as a person, or her teaching style? I'm kind of tossing up whether or not to do this or if it will be helpful to me at all.

[Yertle the Turtle]

Thanks Yertle!

What I've highlighted in bold is kind of what I'm questioning. Is it OK to let my English teacher know, in a constructive and reasonable manner, that I dislike Year 12 English, but not VCAA, her as a person, or her teaching style? I'm kind of tossing up whether or not to do this or if it will be helpful to me at all.

I guess it is OK to do this, just don't try to ram the point home over and over again. I don't think that I would advise informing them, but that is just personal preference, and it is a perfectly viable option. However I think that if the teacher doesn't know they may put more effort into making sure you can do your best, whereas knowing upfront that you don't like their subject may cause problems, depending on the teacher. On the other hand if you don't tell them, but don't put much effort in then they may start to think that it is them that you have problems with. My overall advice would be to not mention it, but if you are asked specifically, then that is a good time to let them know.

[Lear]

Thanks Yertle!

What I've highlighted in bold is kind of what I'm questioning. Is it OK to let my English teacher know, in a constructive and reasonable manner, that I dislike Year 12 English, but not VCAA, her as a person, or her teaching style? I'm kind of tossing up whether or not to do this or if it will be helpful to me at all.

I don't see the point in letting them know  to be honest. What do you think you will gain from it? From my experience teachers strongly appreciate when students show enthusiasm about their subject and will sometimes go out of their way to reciprocate the enthusiasm. 

I pretty much hated English and didn't see much point in it either but recognised I needed to do well in it to succeed in my goals. So I did and ultimately I did do somewhat well despite my feelings about the subject. In life you're inevitably going to have to do something that you don't enjoy so what matters more is how you deal with it.

[JR_StudyEd]

I don't see the point in letting them know  to be honest. What do you think you will gain from it? From my experience teachers strongly appreciate when students show enthusiasm about their subject and will sometimes go out of their way to reciprocate the enthusiasm. 

I pretty much hated English and didn't see much point in it either but recognised I needed to do well in it to succeed in my goals. So I did and ultimately I did do somewhat well despite my feelings about the subject. In life you're inevitably going to have to do something that you don't enjoy so what matters more is how you deal with it.

Hi Lear, thanks for your reply!

I guess if I were to tell my teacher my feelings explicitly, I would be able to get some inspiration and much-needed help. My problem is not that English (i.e. the content) is difficult, it's my almost complete utter dislike of the subject that is making it feel as such.

I've had a conversation with a parent who continually told me to think on the positive side, but what positives can I gather? Today, I had such a boring class that would have sent probably the most avid of English fans to sleep (and again, my hate is not on my teacher - she's awesome - it was the content she was teaching). It was on Frankenstein. My short attention span really worked wonders.

On the flipside, my only real strength and interest (*key term) in English falls in the Oral Presentations area (love love love speeches!), but that's not until Term 3, so I ain't gonna hold my breath for that to come around.

For the sake of my advancement in the subject, I will try and talk with my English teacher regarding this, but in as constructive and "positive" a manner as possible.

Look, I completely understand the essential function of English in Western (and even other cultures), it's just the prospect of the dreaded train carriage of essays hitting me hard, culminating in me having to complete 3 essays in 3 hours in late October. *shudders in fear*

And Lear, seeing as you're in Medicine at Monash (I'm aiming for this!), to what extent did the prospect of getting in motivate you to keep pushing through in English despite your overwhelmingly negative feelings toward it?

[Lear]

And Lear, seeing as you're in Medicine at Monash (I'm aiming for this!), to what extent did the prospect of getting in motivate you to keep pushing through in English despite your overwhelmingly negative feelings toward it?

Not much to be honest. Up till I got my interview, I didn't have any faith that I would have a chance at getting in. Especially considering my disappointment with my UMAT, I find it hard to believe that the prospect of getting 'in' motivated me at all. When I spoke about my goals in the earlier post, I mean my goal of doing well in whatever I do. While it can sometimes be sometimes obsessive and even detrimental, I like to try and be 'good' or even 'excellent' at whatever I get into whether this be something small like solving the rubik's cube (11 second personal best by the way ), sport, games or my studies. English was just something that was unavoidable so I made sure I put in effort regardless of my feelings toward it. I wouldn't describe them as overwhelmingly negative though. It was more that I did not enjoy English like I enjoyed Chemistry or Math. I didn't get any personal satisfaction of completing an essay and I pretty much never finished an essay that I was happy with.

[K888]

I think it's really important to not talk yourself out of English entirely - if you tell yourself that you're always gonna hate something, then you will. Sure, there's gonna be times you absolutely hate going to class, but I'd wager that'll be the case for most of your subjects at least once. Likewise, there will be times when you actually enjoy it!

VCE is all about self discipline so this gives you a great opportunity to get good at it

When I did year 12 I struggled with being engaged in class at times because of the speed we'd move through stuff, so I had a chat to my teacher (who I already knew quite well as they'd taught me for a number of years) and they helped me work out some strategies to stay engaged.

My last little bit of advice - my school always had these corny quotes up around the school and one of them was "if you can't change it, change the way you think about it". I used to think they were dumb but honestly, your attitude in life is super important, so start practicing that change now!

[guac]

Hey JR,

Why do you hate English? And what do you love about speeches? Perhaps if we start from there then we can get to the bottom of it. I had somewhat of a love/hate relationship with the subject all the way up until year 11, but I came to really appreciate it once we started studying our 1/2 texts. You don't necessarily have to loooove English, but I think anyone (and especially someone who isn't bad at writing and loves speeches!) could come to at least tolerate the subject.

[JR_StudyEd]

Hey JR,

Why do you hate English? And what do you love about speeches? Perhaps if we start from there then we can get to the bottom of it. I had somewhat of a love/hate relationship with the subject all the way up until year 11, but I came to really appreciate it once we started studying our 1/2 texts. You don't necessarily have to loooove English, but I think anyone (and especially someone who isn't bad at writing and loves speeches!) could come to at least tolerate the subject.

Frankenstein isn't the most interesting of novels imo. And we're doing a text response on it! I never really have been that fond of Argument Analysis and Comparative either. I guess the common denominator between these areas of study is that they're not really close to my heart. With speeches, I have more freedom over what I write and present and make it more heartfelt. Essay writing just feels like such a chore. Not like I can avoid it though.

TBH, I won't be surprised if some time through this year, someone will just tell me to suck it up and deal with it because I can't do anything else.

[guac]

Frankenstein isn't the most interesting of novels imo. And we're doing a text response on it! I never really have been that fond of Argument Analysis and Comparative either. I guess the common denominator between these areas of study is that they're not really close to my heart. With speeches, I have more freedom over what I write and present and make it more heartfelt. Essay writing just feels like such a chore. Not like I can avoid it though.

TBH, I won't be surprised if some time through this year, someone will just tell me to suck it up and deal with it because I can't do anything else.

I totally get you - that's exactly how I felt in year 9, like English was this unavoidable, uninteresting burden that was just going to inevitably cripple my ATAR and my chances at med (back when I still wanted to do med). I can also completely understand how it might be hard to like an older text like Frankenstein. I haven't studied it myself, but older texts are always a fair bit harder to relate to.

But if what you like about speeches is how they enable you to write something from the heart, then I have good news for you - that's exactly what you should be trying to do in your text responses and comparatives as well. English can seem like this really boring, bull!*@& subject if you treat the assessments like there's always a 'correct answer' or a 'correct structure' (eg. 'you have to use TEEL', 'you have to write about _________', 'start every body paragraph with ____'), but the truth is that the very best essays that come out of English students aren't necessarily the ones that follow these rules. Of course, there are certain guidelines that you should always follow (eg. 3-4 body paragraphs, write formally, no first person), but beyond that, the magic of the subject is that it's up to you to explore the text and find meaning within it. It might be difficult to immediately appreciate a text like Frankenstein, but keep in mind that all of the texts that VCAA selects are ultimately quality works that have stood the test of time. Try to find ways to relate your own perspectives and experiences to those presented in the text - obviously you aren't a mad scientist or the creation of one, but perhaps if you look at it more broadly there are ideas that can resonate with you yourself (eg. The responsibilities of scientists? What it means to be 'alive'? The importance of looking beyond superficial traits when judging people? Again, I haven't actually studied Frankenstein, but if you try to 'zoom out' and look at the bigger picture of the text and why it might still be worthy of examining in the 21st century then perhaps it will be a little bit more interesting to study).

As for argument analysis, I think the skills that you gain from this are actually the most directly applicable in all of VCE English, if not all of VCE as a whole. While people often say that essays are stupid 'because I'll never have to write another essay again after year 12', in a world where you're constantly being bombarded by advertisements, guerrilla marketing and 'fake news', there is absolutely value to be found in your honed ability to instinctively pick out persuasive techniques when they are presented to you. Sure, language analysis might be the most rigid form of essay of the three, but I think if you open your heart to it then you'll find that analysis of argument can also be surprisingly interesting.

So, yeah. You don't have to love the subject, but hopefully if you understand why we study English then you'll at least be able to tolerate it. Personally, I still think that studying texts and writing essays is a fantastic opportunity to introspect and think deeply about the world around you - all important skills for a future doctor! If the subject ever seems dry, or if your teacher makes it dry, just take a step back and make sure you understand why you're studying what you're studying in the first place (asides from the fact that you have to!). In any case, I think it's probably not particularly healthy or productive for you to just accept the fact that you hate English and always will - if you do, I don't think you would do as well as it sounds like you could, and it would certainly be a wasted opportunity.

Hope this helps

[JR_StudyEd]

A slight bump here, as I have my Text Response/Analytical SAC coming up this week. BTW, thank you so much for your insight guac! It hasn't completely altered my opinion on essays but I appreciate the different perspective.

I guess the hardest part about English for me is starting to write. I can't change how sometimes English feels so dry and mundane but I guess I can have an influence on how I write. I've really tried to at the very least get through and tolerate the lessons. I don't actually dread going to English class, it's a mindset of 'just get through to the Oral Presentations and you'll be fine'. The title of my thread is slightly misleading, as I do have an interest in extremely select parts of the English course, it's just the essays (which make up the core of most of the year) that I have a hard time with, due to my general disinterest in studying and writing them.

Well, at least I'm trying not to be apathetic. Easier said than done.

[Ionic Doc]

A slight bump here, as I have my Text Response/Analytical SAC coming up this week. BTW, thank you so much for your insight guac! It hasn't completely altered my opinion on essays but I appreciate the different perspective.

I guess the hardest part about English for me is starting to write. I can't change how sometimes English feels so dry and mundane but I guess I can have an influence on how I write. I've really tried to at the very least get through and tolerate the lessons. I don't actually dread going to English class, it's a mindset of 'just get through to the Oral Presentations and you'll be fine'. The title of my thread is slightly misleading, as I do have an interest in extremely select parts of the English course, it's just the essays (which make up the core of most of the year) that I have a hard time with, due to my general disinterest in studying and writing them.

Well, at least I'm trying not to be apathetic. Easier said than done.

starting to write and coming up with ideas to write about in English for me personally is one of the HARDEST things to do ...thats subjective to the individual though. However once you got your plan and topic/ideas the rest is  just bullshitting and writing your way through da essay, but try to make it engaging and interesting...not bland
tbh I have the same goal as you to get into medicine...and at the end of the day, do u really want to not get there due to some shitty subject u hated...(that's what I thought) I assume your in year 11 and tbh we only got 1 year and 5/6 months left...just grind it out and it'll all be worth it.
than u can study science and math all day long and never have to worry about English ever again (jk) but u get the point 

[JR_StudyEd]

Indirectly replying to the above:
Personally, despite what it looks like based on the subjects I study, I'm not 100% science-oriented. If it were up to me, I would add in a couple of Humanities subjects in there (such as History and Legal). Unfortunately, I couldn't do Geography at my school due to insufficient numbers to make up a class. Story for another time. Also, I'm in Year 12! 

WARNING: RANT INCOMING
Look, after diving into the deep end of the text response/analytical essay pool, I've formed the opinion that these types of essays can go burn for eternity*. I maybe jumped the gun a little by saying I hate English, as the truth is that I love oral presentations. I'll also reserve my opinion for the other types of essays after I've dived into them as well, but for now, I can't say anything else other than what is the actual point of text response essays? It might be just because of the equally difficult novel I'm studying, which only makes matters worse. I cannot, absolutely cannot read Frankenstein for more than 15 minutes at a time without either getting bored out of my mind, distracted or wanting to take a month-long nap. Even though I read the entire novel, my knowledge is rather patchy, my quotes are limited and I often forget most of the events in the novel. I know it sounds like I'm just the biggest complainer ever, but it just doesn't make much sense that I, who have breezed through English assessments for several years (and still consider himself a decent writer), am, all of a sudden, stopped in my tracks by a 19th-century novel and an essay form that I have nothing but the utmost apathy for. It may have to do with my complacency (i.e. if I was doing well in English in previous years, why should I change my strategy?), who knows? Also, breaking down the prompt. Why tho? And to top it off, my friends see nothing but darkness for text responses, and no one really argues with my dislike for text response essays. I mean, who wakes up in the morning and says, 'Wow, I'm so excited to write an essay today'? 

Well, I'll try. I need to do it, therefore I guess I will. Can't wait for the other essays, and for the English exam so that it can be thrown into a lake of eternal fire when I'm done with it. Seriously.And yes, I'm aware that on a daily basis, people do things they don't like doing. Not like I have a choice, though. English, hope you and I can get along someday.

*opinion correct as of 19/3/2019. Subject to change and refinement, and you're welcome to convince me otherwise.

[Owlbird83]

I know this probably sounds like it won't work and I don't know if it will actually help, but try and change your mindset about English by faking that you like it.
I really didn't like English last year, I complained about it to my parents or friends, I think it was a vicious cycle, I would complain about it and how I disliked it and my like for English really plummeted though out the year and my grades for it last year were the worst they've ever been.
I had to read my books over the holidays and I kept telling my mum how boring they were and how I didn't want to do my draft for the creative and I think me repeating that made me dislike it more. My grade three teacher banned us from using the word 'hate' told use to only use dislike and it's stuck with me.
I may be overthinking it but science has proven that 'faking til you make it' in social situations like even if you aren't feeling confident can actually increase your confidence even though at first you were just pretending.
I decided that whenever I felt like making a negative comment about English I would flip it even if I wasn't feeling it. For example I said Yay, I'm really looking forward to English!', whenever I really wasn't. I tried to trick my brain into believing I was.
And to conclude, I really don't know if it was just the fact that I got a better teacher this year, or my forced positivity, but I actually like English this year. I do think it did help.
There have been a lot of research into mindset and I think it can really have an effect on things so, please try it!
Good luck!!