The Issues in VCE Physics - The Great Debate

[thushan]

I'd consider myself to be a below average physics student who didn't deserve the mark they got.

I'd consider myself as a decently capable physics student...but by no means amazing, yet I got a very high physics study score because I was careful in the exam.

[b^3]

So it isn't design well to prepare students for future studying in engineering and university physics.  Only a small minority though would be wanting to end up in those proffessions and if they wants to do more difficult physics for VCE, there is always university enhance program's or open courses online.
 the community of ATAR notes doesn't show what an average student of physic opinion but rather very high achiever who wants to push to there limits. The physics course is design for an average student who just want a taste in the basic of physics in a fun manner (however that final part depends on the teacher). If any huge changes were made to the study to try and make it more 'academical' would only result in the drop out of more students.

So we shouldn't be preparing students for the future and trying to get them to get a feel of what they could end up doing? So we shouldn't have specialist maths or hard chem since it would be too hard for the average student and the majority won't use it later on? I'm not kidding when I say that a majority of the physics course is a joke, some people pick it because they can do well in it with minimal effort. Why should turn people off an area of science with a dud course for the subject when we could be doing something more appropriate and giving then a better taste of what it actually is.

Yes some people wouldn't pick it, but then aren't those the people who are picking it for the wrong reason currently? If VCE physics did integrate in calculus and such, yes it would be harder, but then at the end of the day, isn't real physics meant to be that but harder? Not just plugging in numbers?

We could have what we had suggested in chat a few weeks ago, a tiered system for physics, i.e. just like the maths, we'd have a lower physics (no calculus) and a higher physics (proper maths, make methods+spesh prereqs) and then those who want to try the easier physics can without being overwhelemed, while those who want to actualy to something properly could have what they are after too (with higher scaling). So... we'd end up with a 'further like' physics (which you could argue we have atm....) and a 'methods like' physics.

[paulsterio]

I'll pore over this tonight and tell you guys what I like and dislike about the course, I'm too sleepy now

[polar]

What kind of maths do you guys want in VCE level physics? Would it take so much time to teach the maths that you have to rush the physics in the end?

[pi]

What kind of maths do you guys want in VCE level physics? Would it take so much time to teach the maths that you have to rush the physics in the end?

Well not if methods was a prereq?

[polar]

Well not if methods was a prereq?

Let assume you can do anything you want, make specialist a prerequisite if you want

[BigAl]

http://youtu.be/BGL22PTIOAM everything in this video.

The thing I dislike about vce physics is that it is all all about memorisation. Nothing is taught by heart. And the percentage who did special relativity was disappointing. This is because of students' perspective towards physics. Many say "oh am I going to be Einstein? Where the hell I'm gonna use physics in my life?" Teachers fail to highlight the fact that physics is the science of universe.. The things we see can be expressed physical laws and this is exciting not boring...the prole who dislike physics have never said "how stuff works" in their life.

I did physics because I ask big questions such as 'where do we come from' 'how do things work' and believe me I've learned nothing about the fancy side at school...ever since my childhood, I have looked up the stars and and got fascinated all the time.

I did physics in turkey..when the content is compared, vce physics lacks of cool things like laws of thermal physics..laws of conductivity..angular velocity( which is vital for the planetary system)

Lastly, teachers should teach their students logical thinking...and as a result of logical reasoning, physical things can be expressed through mathematics...rather than memorising formulas, we gotta teach them how to derive...
Just a quick example: we all memorised that the energy of a moving particle is halfmv^2...rather than memorising this, we gotta teach that the energy of a moving particle is the work done in the change of distance...how do you do a work? Well, you apply a force..what about change in distance..just dx..what about summation? Imtegral..integral(F)dx.. Solve this...here is your formula

[pi]

Let assume you can do anything you want, make specialist a prerequisite if you want

I'm cool with that. Get rid of all the physicsy stuff in spesh by chucking it in physics and beef up topics like vectors, integration, DEs etc in spesh.

Sounds good to me

[Reckoner]

The thing I dislike about vce physics is that it is all all about memorisation. Nothing is taught by heart. And the percentage who did special relativity was disappointing. This is because of students' perspective towards physics. Many say "oh am I going to be Einstein? Where the hell I'm gonna use physics in my life?"

This also comes down to the competitive nature of VCE. Several of my friends were interested in relativity, but where put off because it is considered more challenging than structures, and didn't want to risk "losing" extra marks.

1) The cheat sheet - get rid of it
2) Detailed Studies - get rid of them

Couldn't agree more.

[BigAl]

I taught myself special relativity and pulled out full mark. This doesn't mean special relativity is easy...I first read Einstein's book... The formulas and analogies seemed too hard to grasp..When I checked heinemann.all I had to do was use just 4-5 formula and learn the proposals of special relativity...and students don't need to be Einstein to do special relativity in vce physics

If we teach students how to derive formulas, the cheat sheet will be unnecessary anyway....
Note: I'm on the phone and typing from here is torturing..apologises for any grammatical and typing errors
Vce physics is not competitive at all..imagine a country and its people, competing with 500.000 people with no formula sheet and calculator..yes that's my homeland

[Reckoner]

I taught myself special relativity and pulled out full mark. This doesn't mean special relativity is easy...I first read Einstein's book... The formulas and analogies seemed too hard to grasp..When I checked the book..all I had to do use just 4-5 formula and learn the proposals of special relativity...and students don't need to be Einstein to do special relativity in vce physics

I did this detailed study too; it was the only part of the course that I enjoyed  It's a shame that the majority of students miss out. And you're right, its difficulty in VCE is on par with the other physics topics, from my experience however, others were put off because initially it seems not as accessible.

[Mao]

So it isn't design well to prepare students for future studying in engineering and university physics.  Only a small minority though would be wanting to end up in those proffessions and if they wants to do more difficult physics for VCE, there is always university enhance program's or open courses online.
 the community of ATAR notes doesn't show what an average student of physic opinion but rather very high achiever who wants to push to there limits. The physics course is design for an average student who just want a taste in the basic of physics in a fun manner (however that final part depends on the teacher). If any huge changes were made to the study to try and make it more 'academical' would only result in the drop out of more students.

If you want to do fun physics, do that in year 10. You can play with pendulums and electronics without really understanding the physics behind it, and it'll still be quite cool.

Physics is not about 'fun' or 'how things work'. Physics is about explaining the core mathematics that govern the universe. There is a reason why the field of physics boomed after Newton, because he invented calculus. To deny that tool in physics is essentially restricting ourselves to the elementary crap we learn in VCE physics today.

Physics is perhaps is one of the most mathematically demanding topics. I would go so far to say physics should be on the same scale as specialist maths.

[appianway]

Physics may be mathematically demanding, but isn't mathematically rigorous. There is no mathematical rigor in VCE at all - specialist is applied math, and physics involves a lot of applied math.

I do think that the problem with VCE physics is that it doesn't involve calculus. You can't do any proofs without it. In my opinion, the most important areas of math for physics are calculus (particularly vector calculus), differential equations, and linear algebra.

[Russ]

Differential equations are on the VCE syllabus? Huh.

[appianway]

Incredibly basic separable first order equations are in the specialist math syllabus. Even so, that's enough to learn high school level physics properly.