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March 29, 2024, 11:08:58 pm

Author Topic: Medicine...  (Read 4690 times)  Share 

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Anonymous_

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Medicine...
« on: July 19, 2017, 08:32:01 pm »
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Hi, just wondering about the requirements for Undergrad and Grad-entry Medicine and have a few questions:

1) Say a student has a GPA of about 4.25 or something out of 7, and they want to get in Grad-entry Medicine (minimum entry for most Uni's are 5), and their GAMSAT scores aren't up to scratch. Does this basically mean their chances to get in Medicine are over? Is their some way to either increase your GPA or resit the GAMSAT and somehow get a better score?

2) I know a lot of Uni's require the UMAT for Undergrad entry into Medicine, and I know a lot of people do coaching of sorts to excel in the UMAT. What I'm worried about is that doesn't the workload get extremely high since you're already trying to do well for your upcoming HSC exams, school assignments/tests  AND you're studying for the UMAT (since it's in June)? How do people study so well for both of these MASSIVE tests? Also, the first section of UMAT is mainly logical reasoning, personally I'm terrible with those sort of questions, so if I didn't do so well in the first section, but did well in the other two, would I still have a chance? And what's the third section about (something about non-verbal reasoning?), I couldn't find any papers so don't know what it is.

3) Is it likely to do well in the UMAT without coaching and just do practice papers by myself? Or would it be way better to do coaching for it?

4) Say someone gets up to the MMI stage, but they perform terribly and get rejected. Can they apply again to the same Uni or would they have to apply to other Uni's for Grad entry (also risk getting rejected)?

5) What job offers are there for people with a Bachelor of Medical Science or Bachelor of Biomedical Science degree?

6) What would be harder to study for; GAMSAT or UMAT? Which test is harder (I've heard mixed opinions from people)? And do uni courses such as Bachelor of Medical Science or Bachelor of Biomedical Science prepare students for GAMSAT courses?

7) What are the UMAT cut-off marks for undergrad entry into UNSW, Monash, Melbourne Uni, etc? Does one section carry more weight or are they all equal in marks? I know that the test is out of 300, so what would the average mark need to be for entrance to any of the above mentioned Uni's?

It'd help a lot if you guys could answer these questions since I'm worried about chances of getting in Medicine. It seems so tough :/
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 08:57:59 pm by Anonymous_ »

VanillaRice

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 09:59:38 pm »
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Hi, just wondering about the requirements for Undergrad and Grad-entry Medicine and have a few questions:

1) Say a student has a GPA of about 4.25 or something out of 7, and they want to get in Grad-entry Medicine (minimum entry for most Uni's are 5), and their GAMSAT scores aren't up to scratch. Does this basically mean their chances to get in Medicine are over? Is their some way to either increase your GPA or resit the GAMSAT and somehow get a better score?

4) Say someone gets up to the MMI stage, but they perform terribly and get rejected. Can they apply again to the same Uni or would they have to apply to other Uni's for Grad entry (also risk getting rejected)?

5) What job offers are there for people with a Bachelor of Medical Science or Bachelor of Biomedical Science degree?

7) What are the UMAT cut-off marks for undergrad entry into UNSW, Monash, Melbourne Uni, etc? Does one section carry more weight or are they all equal in marks? I know that the test is out of 300, so what would the average mark need to be for entrance to any of the above mentioned Uni's?

It'd help a lot if you guys could answer these questions since I'm worried about chances of getting in Medicine. It seems so tough :/
1) You haven't even started uni yet (I'm assuming) and you're already worried about your GPA  :P. If you're prepared to work hard, I believe that good grades are not out of reach. Also note the way GPA is calculated for grad entry is slightly different (see here). For comparison, an average mark of ~70 will land you about a 6 GPA.
That being said, after completing an undergad, many opt to do an Honours year to boost their GPA. For universities that include postgraduate studies in GPA calculations, some choose to pursue Masters degrees. For other universities, I don't believe there are many other options beyond further study. But don't forget the GPA is calculated over the last three undergrad years, so there's plenty of opportunity there!
The GAMSAT can be attempted as many times as you wish (and up to twice a year), although results only last for 2 years.

4) For most graduate-entry universities (if not all?), you can apply more than once, provided you remain eligible.

5) Speaking only for Biomedical Science graduates here - but job prospects include research, lab assistants, government health programs. Many undertake some extra study and then go on to work as pharmacy techs, medical imaging techs, etc. Others may also go on to do honours and PhDs. I have also seen some start up their own businesses/design new products related to Biomedical Science.

7) Different universities use UMAT scores differently - in my opinion it would be best to consult each individual university's website (list here). This should also help you find out more about their particular degree structures/entry requirements (e.g. ATAR, interview).
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Anonymous_

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 10:20:30 pm »
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1) You haven't even started uni yet (I'm assuming) and you're already worried about your GPA  :P. If you're prepared to work hard, I believe that good grades are not out of reach. Also note the way GPA is calculated for grad entry is slightly different (see here). For comparison, an average mark of ~70 will land you about a 6 GPA.
That being said, after completing an undergad, many opt to do an Honours year to boost their GPA. For universities that include postgraduate studies in GPA calculations, some choose to pursue Masters degrees. For other universities, I don't believe there are many other options beyond further study. But don't forget the GPA is calculated over the last three undergrad years, so there's plenty of opportunity there!
The GAMSAT can be attempted as many times as you wish (and up to twice a year), although results only last for 2 years.

4) For most graduate-entry universities (if not all?), you can apply more than once, provided you remain eligible.

5) Speaking only for Biomedical Science graduates here - but job prospects include research, lab assistants, government health programs. Many undertake some extra study and then go on to work as pharmacy techs, medical imaging techs, etc. Others may also go on to do honours and PhDs. I have also seen some start up their own businesses/design new products related to Biomedical Science.

7) Different universities use UMAT scores differently - in my opinion it would be best to consult each individual university's website (list here). This should also help you find out more about their particular degree structures/entry requirements (e.g. ATAR, interview).

Thanks for your help, and when you mean average mark ~ 70, you basically mean 70% overall grade after 3 years of the course right? And GPA is calculated from ALL the subjects you do, so that would  mean you have to do well in all to have a competitive GPA, right?

VanillaRice

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 10:30:48 pm »
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Thanks for your help, and when you mean average mark ~ 70, you basically mean 70% overall grade after 3 years of the course right? And GPA is calculated from ALL the subjects you do, so that would  mean you have to do well in all to have a competitive GPA, right?
Yep, a 70% overall grade. GPA for graduate med entry is only calculated from your last 3 undergrad years (or 3 years' worth of subjects), with the more recent years having a heavier weighting (i.e. last year weighted 3x, 2nd last is 2x, and 3rd last year is 1x). I think that if you're in the 70-80% range in your first year or so of uni, you'd be on track for a competitive GPA, keeping in mind the GAMSAT and interview.

EDIT: weighted GPA calculated this way only applies to GEMSAS universities
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 09:28:33 am by VanillaRice »
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Anonymous_

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 11:53:58 pm »
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Yep, a 70% overall grade. GPA for graduate med entry is only calculated from your last 3 undergrad years (or 3 years' worth of subjects), with the more recent years having a heavier weighting (i.e. last year weighted 3x, 2nd last is 2x, and 3rd last year is 1x).
Does this also apply with NSW universities? I heard that WAM (the method you just showed) is used in Victoria and GPA is more NSW based (please correct me if I'm wrong) or is GPA in NSW measured that way (recent years having more value)?

VanillaRice

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 09:28:02 am »
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Does this also apply with NSW universities? I heard that WAM (the method you just showed) is used in Victoria and GPA is more NSW based (please correct me if I'm wrong) or is GPA in NSW measured that way (recent years having more value)?
Apologies, allow me to correct myself. Only GEMSAS universities calculate the weighted GPA that way. For Victoria, both the University of Melb and Deakin are in GEMSAS, while Monash (grad entry) does indeed use WAM (calculated such that 1st year units = 0.5x weighting, and all others 1x - Monash only), but restricts entry to their grad program to those who did their undergrad at Monash.

NSW unis not in GEMSAS that provide entry to postgrad students (USyd, UWS, JMP) either use an unweighted GPA or some other calculation (UNSW has a grad entry program, but is only restricted to their BMedSc students, and does use WAM). As I said above, it would be best to check out individual websites, as each generally does things in their own way.
Apologies for the confusion.
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Anonymous_

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 02:53:45 pm »
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Apologies, allow me to correct myself. Only GEMSAS universities calculate the weighted GPA that way. For Victoria, both the University of Melb and Deakin are in GEMSAS, while Monash (grad entry) does indeed use WAM (calculated such that 1st year units = 0.5x weighting, and all others 1x - Monash only), but restricts entry to their grad program to those who did their undergrad at Monash.

NSW unis not in GEMSAS that provide entry to postgrad students (USyd, UWS, JMP) either use an unweighted GPA or some other calculation (UNSW has a grad entry program, but is only restricted to their BMedSc students, and does use WAM). As I said above, it would be best to check out individual websites, as each generally does things in their own way.
Apologies for the confusion.
And I believe UNSW only takes the top achieving BMedSc students in the first semester or something? It said something similar to that in their website, how do they calculate and what's required for that entrance?

VanillaRice

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 04:23:07 pm »
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And I believe UNSW only takes the top achieving BMedSc students in the first semester or something? It said something similar to that in their website, how do they calculate and what's required for that entrance?
According to their website and the info booklet, it appears that only 10 places are available through this pathway. It seems that applications for this pathway happen during second year, and is based on WAM, UMAT and interview. I don't know much else about this pathway, but from what I've read it seems that the BMedSc pathway wouldn't be the best pathway if you are aiming to get into Medicine (I would also expect it to be relatively competitive).

Regarding your question about studying for Year 12 and preparing for the UMAT at the same time - in my opinion, it's all about balance and finding out what works for you. The UMAT this year is held a week or so after the midyear school holidays (July 26), so I would say that many students would have dedicated this holiday towards preparation. I'd like to add that a somewhat common (in my opinion, anyway) thing to do for those who end up with a high ATAR but aren't happy with their UMAT score is to decide to take a gap year and reattempt the UMAT (since your ATAR will still be valid the year after).
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Anonymous_

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 05:20:12 pm »
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According to their website and the info booklet, it appears that only 10 places are available through this pathway. It seems that applications for this pathway happen during second year, and is based on WAM, UMAT and interview. I don't know much else about this pathway, but from what I've read it seems that the BMedSc pathway wouldn't be the best pathway if you are aiming to get into Medicine (I would also expect it to be relatively competitive).

Regarding your question about studying for Year 12 and preparing for the UMAT at the same time - in my opinion, it's all about balance and finding out what works for you. The UMAT this year is held a week or so after the midyear school holidays (July 26), so I would say that many students would have dedicated this holiday towards preparation. I'd like to add that a somewhat common (in my opinion, anyway) thing to do for those who end up with a high ATAR but aren't happy with their UMAT score is to decide to take a gap year and reattempt the UMAT (since your ATAR will still be valid the year after).
What would you think would be the best option for Grad entry to Medicine?

Also, say a student studies a lot for the UMAT and did well (top 10% or something), but they don't do well in their HSC (<90 ATAR which isn't enough for Medicine), what would they do? Obviously universities want good ATAR and UMAT and you can't sit the HSC again (you can, but eh), so would it be more wiser to sit the UMAT the year after you sit the HSC and dedicate all the study time towards that ATAR in Year 12?

VanillaRice

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 05:54:42 pm »
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What would you think would be the best option for Grad entry to Medicine?

Also, say a student studies a lot for the UMAT and did well (top 10% or something), but they don't do well in their HSC (<90 ATAR which isn't enough for Medicine), what would they do? Obviously universities want good ATAR and UMAT and you can't sit the HSC again (you can, but eh), so would it be more wiser to sit the UMAT the year after you sit the HSC and dedicate all the study time towards that ATAR in Year 12?
I can't really pick a "best" option, both because I'm also relatively new to learning about the different options, and because everyone's situation is different. In terms of gaining entry to graduate medicine, I don't believe there is any advantage in picking any particular type of course (except for unis like Monash, which restrict their grad program to Monash undergrads only; or UniMelb, who require prerequisite subjects). Many choose to do degrees in fields such as Arts and Commerce to explore other areas of interest.

I can't say too much in terms of studying for the UMAT, but I've heard of many who did little study (other from doing practise papers) and do fairly well (but have also heard the opposite). Regardless, I'm of the opinion that having some prior knowledge of the structure/type of questions asked is important. Perhaps it would be a good idea to attempt a practise paper, (you might be able to find one somewhere online) and go from there. Although, you will find that many do go through some form of UMAT preparation course on the holidays, so might be worth considering. However, I definitely think its worth attempting the UMAT in Year 12.  Again, I'm no big expert here, so hopefully someone else can help you out  :)
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Anonymous_

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Re: Medicine...
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2017, 08:16:06 pm »
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I can't really pick a "best" option, both because I'm also relatively new to learning about the different options, and because everyone's situation is different. In terms of gaining entry to graduate medicine, I don't believe there is any advantage in picking any particular type of course (except for unis like Monash, which restrict their grad program to Monash undergrads only; or UniMelb, who require prerequisite subjects). Many choose to do degrees in fields such as Arts and Commerce to explore other areas of interest.

I can't say too much in terms of studying for the UMAT, but I've heard of many who did little study (other from doing practise papers) and do fairly well (but have also heard the opposite). Regardless, I'm of the opinion that having some prior knowledge of the structure/type of questions asked is important. Perhaps it would be a good idea to attempt a practise paper, (you might be able to find one somewhere online) and go from there. Although, you will find that many do go through some form of UMAT preparation course on the holidays, so might be worth considering. However, I definitely think its worth attempting the UMAT in Year 12.  Again, I'm no big expert here, so hopefully someone else can help you out  :)
I had a look at one of the practice papers and Section 1 (logical reasoning) and Section 3 (non verbal reasoning) seem a bit weird and hard, something which looks difficult to 'study' for. Still wondering how people study for both UMAT and HSC since if someone screws up their HSC, it's a heavy blow whereas for screwing up UMAT people can repeat the test.