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Author Topic: Veganism- yay or nay?  (Read 2473 times)  Share 

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tocoolforschool

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Veganism- yay or nay?
« on: April 20, 2019, 04:57:21 pm »
+1
Hello fellow rants and debates participants,
As someone who usually would not care about such a subject as veganism; I would normally act with an attitude of you do your thing and I'll do my thing. (I love my meat and milk and eggs) For some who mostly wouldn't care, I must admit lately, vegans have been getting on my nerves.
So much, that I am now strongly opposed to the whole idea of veganism.
Reasons include their selfish acts who are hurting Australians businesses;
https://www.smartcompany.com.au/industries/agribusiness/vegan-protesters-hurt-small-businesses/
https://www.9news.com.au/national/perth-news-direct-action-everywhere-james-warden-vegan-calf-crime-courts/39980e08-fdcb-4bfd-93bb-9c4ae1ef9954

And that they are literally invading, trespassing and attacking farmer land and businesses alike;
https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/crime/hundreds-of-militant-vegans-storm-queensland-farmers-property/news-story/db5a20ab05c1d817b67c153317fc13e5
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-08/tougher-laws-for-animal-rights-activists-amid-plans-for-protest/10979204
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/world/australia/vegans-protest-farms.html

This is a great sin to me, because it is my strong belief that Farmers are the backbone of our country.

And adding to all this humans are omnivores. We need the calcium, protein, zinc and iron that can not be found in a vegan diet save from supplements. It seems plain stupid to me that people would deprive themselves of these necessary nutrients. It's like feeding a lion grass - Cruel to both the lion and dangerous for the ecosystem it lives in.

Still I'm free to hear opposing views, as long as you don't stuff it down my throat activist style; I'm listening.
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K888

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2019, 05:01:45 pm »
+11
Hi all,

Just a pre-emptive mod post to say please keep things civil here. Please stay away from personal attacks and keep things respectful.

Quote
Still I'm free to hear opposing views, as long as you don't stuff it down my throat activist style; I'm listening.
This could be said for both sides - non-vegan and vegan.

Cheers guys - happy debating :)

PhoenixxFire

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2019, 05:09:49 pm »
+12
I think it's a bit ridiculous to say that you are against people making their own dietary choices because some people are doing stupid things like trespassing etc.

Humans are omnivores - this means we can eat animal and plant products. Lions are carnivores - they can only eat meat. Therefore comparing humans eating only plant-based foods to a lion eating grass is not a fair comparison.

Calcium can be found in seeds and beans and nuts.
Protein can be found in soy and beans and seeds and nuts.
Zinc can be found in seeds and nuts and wholegrains.
Iron can be found in beans and lentils and potato and green vegetables.
Saying that these nutrients can only be consumed through supplements is factually incorrect.

I'm sure there are some vegans who are not consuming the necessary amounts of nutrients, just as there are some meat eaters who are not consuming necessary amounts of nutrients.
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jamonwindeyer

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 05:12:25 pm »
+10
Are we talking about the dietary choice of abstaining from eating animal products? Or are we talking about criminal actions like harassment/trespassing?

I'm certainly against the latter, but that isn't what veganism is :)

tocoolforschool

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2019, 05:18:43 pm »
+1
Hi all,

Just a pre-emptive mod post to say please keep things civil here. Please stay away from personal attacks and keep things respectful.
This could be said for both sides - non-vegan and vegan.

Cheers guys - happy debating :)

Sorry about that! I didn't mean to make it sound so attacking...
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tocoolforschool

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2019, 05:23:15 pm »
+1
Are we talking about the dietary choice of abstaining from eating animal products? Or are we talking about criminal actions like harassment/trespassing?

I'm certainly against the latter, but that isn't what veganism is :)

I get your point, I wrote my piece quickly which means its not well set out. Basically I don't think veganism is a good idea, and the trespassing of peoples farms and businesses was the reason I felt so strongly about it.
That's not to say I'm against peaceful vegans who will still let me make my own dietary choices without argument, which is why I made this thread; to hear differing opinions.
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Aaron

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2019, 05:27:12 pm »
+10
Personally don't mind what other people do. It's their choice.

From my point of view I have never considered "going vegan" but I definitely think the extreme activism displayed to promote their cause definitely has the opposite effect. There's peaceful protest and then there's outright ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps they do not care about the image they're creating but from my perspective I do feel it has assisted my opinion, albeit in a small way. Again, I am completely aware this a minority and the vast majority of vegans are understanding and respectful of our individual choices.

I definitely don't agree with the actions stated in the article you linked whatsoever - it is fine to make your point known but to disrupt operation of a legitimate business especially when perhaps the vast majority are not "vegan" and are quite happy to eat meat, is not right.

Imagine the shitstorm if 'meat eating' protesters went into a vegan cafe etc.?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 05:29:29 pm by Aaron »
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Ionic Doc

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2019, 05:29:04 pm »
+1
Sorry about that! I didn't mean to make it sound so attacking...

lol


I agree with you that farmers are the backbone of this country but I feel like vegans want to get their message across to everyone. I think there fed up with being a meme ( :P)  and this is why they , trespass on farmers property , hurt local businesses , etc,  but this is the wrong way to announce their beliefs and it causes more hate against them and the media depicts them as being selfish/arrogant. Although I feel like only a small population of the "vegan" community does this but it does impact their own community and society.  :(
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hums_student

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2019, 05:35:54 pm »
+8
I personally don't see the problem with vegans that conservatives are pushing. My vegan friends are far from the 'meat-eaters are murderers' militant protesters seen in the media. I also think it's ridiculous to say that it's wrong to be vegan because ""fOoD cHAiN"".  People have different lifestyles and as long as they're not harming anyone, you do you.

BUT, veganism as a poitical movement is starting to get out of hand. First, politicising people's personal lifestyle choices is ridiculous. Second, as the OP stated, they are harming farmers and small businesses - people who are just trying to earn a living. The protests are also disruptive to way too many people's lives, the biggest example being blocking tram tracks in peak hour traffic around Flinders St.

Also, the actions of the veganism movement is highly hypocritical to many things they also stand for. Won't go into them here as that's derailing the thread a bit, but I'm happy to continue the debate somewhere else.

Quote
Sorry about that! I didn't mean to make it sound so attacking...
Don't see what's so "attacking" about your original post. Though I do find it funny that these types of warnings are necessary.
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turinturambar

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2019, 08:31:52 pm »
+7
Personally, I'm not vegan, but feel compelled at this stage to defend it anyway.
The two main reasons I hear for veganism are:
1. Producing animal products exposes animals to suffering and exploits them (at least if it is done in a "mass market" way).
2. Environmentally, eating animal products is unsustainable for our current and projected world population.

I think both are valid reasons.  And they are also potentially valid reasons for protests that affect other people and businesses.

So I'm going to reframe the question: If a validly constituted business is built largely or entirely on exploitation or represents an existential threat to humanity, is it valid to disrupt that business?  My answer would be Yes, it is valid (though I wouldn't necessarily disrupt that business...).  Even some actions that are technically criminal, such as trespassing, could be morally valid.

I'm not convinced that the vegan activism described actually meets that criteria, but I'm fairly sure some of the activists involved do think it meets the criteria.  And I think that's where the debate gets particularly messy, because yes, it is personal opinion whether the criteria is met, but in an inter-connected world our choices affect those round us and vice versa, and it is valid to consider those effects and try to raise awareness about them.  I don't know how to balance these considerations.


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J_Rho

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 09:45:31 am »
+3
Factory farming is unethical in 90% of peoples opinion - every meat eater I've met who has seen a documentary like Dominion or Knifes over Forks or just knows about the issue of factory farming thinks factory farming is ridiculous.
And yes - eating animal products is unsustainable for many reasons that I won't get into (Before the Flood is a great doco)

Fun fact: did you know if half (I think this statistic is right) of the land used for animal agriculture was used to grow soy or rice etc could feed the entire world and people could still eat meat.

A lot of vegan activism (like the trespassing thing with Gippy Goat) might have good intentions but is 100% done the wrong way.
There are many vegan youtubers and just preachy vegans who have made such a 'bad name' for vegans to the extent that many people are now going by 'plant based' rather then 'vegan'.
Gippy Goat for example had to close down due to their terrible conditions (they had many many dead animals in the paddocks and it was bad enough that they were losing business) and the activists may have had good intentions when they stole the goat that needed medical attention it was ridiculous like there are other ways to help rather than trespassing and stealing.

There are 2 types of vegans; the ones who preach to everyone and hate on meat eaters and the ones who respect others dietary choices.

My mum is vegan and so 99% of what I eat is also vegan and health wise its great, like yeah I miss meat/cheese etc but there are a lot of vegan substitutes on the market that are pretty darn convincing.

20 years ago same sex marriage was 'outraging' and was getting the same negative media that veganism is - maybe one day it'll be seen as more 'normal' and without as much controversy.

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codsta769

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Re: Veganism- yay or nay?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2019, 06:35:09 pm »
+1
Just to give background on myself, my parents are Indian where over 80% of the population is vegetarian. My father has been vegetarian his entire life whereas my mother was originally a meat eater but converted to a vegetarian about 3 years ago which is why i, myself am a meat eater. I am also a Hindu and do not eat beef, but eat everything else except for shellfish due to a minor allergy.

I think that choosing what you eat is a personal choice whether it be for religious reasons or personal beliefs and that people should not make fun of you based on the way you live your life. I hate it how people laugh when someone says that are vegan thinking that there is nothing in the world they can eat since everything is of meat. I think society in Australia definitely needs to revert into respecting other peoples choices. In other countries like in India or other Asian countries, people dont care what others eat and are generally respected regardless.

On the contrary, i don't believe in vegan protesting which just make the issue worse for themselves most of the time. They should also show the same respect the decisions that others make in eating meat. It is natural for humans to eat other living creatures and is part of the circle of life.

The reason why i choose to eat meat is because generally in our society today, animals are mostly treated as humanely as possible especially with farming of animals. This is obviously better because the animals are being especially bred for the purpose of human consumption as opposed to being in the wild. In terms of eggs, i always purchase 'cage free eggs' due to ethical reasons. What i have respect for especially is halal meat which incorporates many hygiene and humane rules such as the animal having a instant pain free death or that they are not aloud to see another animal being slaughtered. Although i dont care that another gods name is being used while this process is being done, i still thing the backbone of the procedures is to be appreciated towards.
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