I don't believe that the exams will be pushed back till December unless it is a worse case scenario, as the WHO and the Australian government believe that the COVID-19 will settle down in 6-9 months time.
The one thing I am curious about is how closed schools are going to continue teaching VCE students. They may have to result to online teaching as universities are doing at the moment.
It will certainly be interesting to see how this unfolds.
What are everyone's thoughts, how will tertiary education be affected?I'd imagine at my uni that everyone would just swap to online only. There already are online resources available for a bunch of courses (although I'm not sure how many) because of all the students who were stuck in china for the start of the year. We've been getting constant updates from uni and have just had the first case confirmed in the act this morning, but haven't heard anything definitively about the plans for if there's a shutdown - hand sanitiser has appeared all over campus although it seems to be being used vary sparingly at the moment haha
NAPLAN has been cancelled for this year :oMy younger self would have been so happy over that.....
NAPLAN has been cancelled for this year :o
On another note, will the GAT be canceled? That is technically a mass gathering..Can be done if split into classrooms. At the moment my school has cancelled everything (meaning gatherings, excursions etc) up until end of May.... but if the NAPLAN has been cancelled I don't like how this looks for the GAT in its current date. They will still need to do it as they use it as a basis for derived score and given "no student will be disadvantaged" it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
My school has said that they don't know when the school will close (like most) but are beginning to discuss what will happen if it does.I also agree. I don't want schools to close, but I understand the future need to activate level 3 or 4 lockdown throughout the country, and their reasoning for prolonging school closure despite the negative effects we are already seeing. Many students are now staying at home anyway, with the exception of the majority of VCE students. Teachers are also increasingly worried about their health, and rightfully so. I wouldn't want to be surrounded by a bunch of young kids coughing and sneezing all over me... Online learning really isn't a substitute for in-class teaching but there is nothing else we can do.
Call me selfish but tbh, i don't want my school to close because school is a great getaway from home and online learning will most likely be difficult in the sense of not having the teacher right there
So heres my question:
should i not get new work and go ham on school
OR
should i get a new job with (potentially) same or less hours than before?
What is everyone's schools doing in response to the virus? Have you or are you transitioning to online learning yet and what are you using?
My school has said that they don't know when the school will close (like most) but are beginning to discuss what will happen if it does. For Maths, we are using google hangouts video.
As an eLearning Leader and teacher, now is my "prime time" for obvious reasons (if a shutdown were to happen)......... it is a real possibility and all students should prepare for this scenario in the event it does happen. My school is making plans already and yours probably are too. It is a very unique situation we are facing at the moment where there is a real risk of closure for an unknown period of time.... important to note that no response is going to be perfect.
As a teacher, what are your thoughts on the possibility of Year 13 and the likelihood of subsidies being granted to students who possibly can't afford another investment-heavy year?Not sure, haven't heard about this or what you're referring to. Feel free to link if you'd like.
Not sure, haven't heard about this or what you're referring to. Feel free to link if you'd like.
Definitely get new work if income is a major burden. Considering you have access to internet, there's plenty of online jobs (keep in mind that by law, income received through Paypal needs to be included on one's tax return). If you're not interested in filling out contracts, the content creation market is somewhere to explore. Hourwise, take advantage of this situation (I know the irony of this) and structure your day if possible, in allocating periods where you strictly complete study and potentially work.
My school is literally doing what Virtual School Victoria (Distance Ed) does but of course with zero experience which is slightly concerning.
We've seen the UK goverment cancel A-level and GCSE exams only hours ago and that's more than a minor alarm.
Oh W O W
IMO cause Australia is an island and we are relatively far away from Europe, unless it gets really really bad here the government won't do anything drastic.
As a teacher, what are your thoughts on the possibility of Year 13 and the likelihood of subsidies being granted to students who possibly can't afford another investment-heavy year?If you're referring to current Year 12 students repeating Year 12 in 2021, I would consider that very unlikely (at this point in time). Schools will be getting another cohort of Prep students next year and won't have the space to support an extra cohort. While we've just finished a 'half-cohort' in Qld (Seniors of 2019), we certainly couldn't deal with a 'double'-cohort from 2021-2032.
@J_Rho lots of the supermarkets are looking to hire casuals at the moment because of how hectic it's been. If you're wanting to get another job I'd just walk in and tell them you've lost your job because of the pandemic, have heard they're looking for staff, and ask how to go about applying (I suggest walking in rather than looking online because from what I hear they're doing a fair bit of their hiring through friends and family of existing staff).yeah the local Woolies is hiring but idk how long until the pool opens again like i feel like a new job just for 1 - 2 moths work isnt necessary but if its up to 7 months then i would need a job
Going to be really interesting to see what happens to VCE students this year. I do really sympathise for those in year 12 right now, supposedly for many of you this would be "the most important year" of your education up to this point of your lives and having all this uncertainty must be really distracting and taxing.
yeah the local Woolies is hiring but idk how long until the pool opens again like i feel like a new job just for 1 - 2 moths work isnt necessary but if its up to 7 months then i would need a job
and tbh i love swim teaching and the idea of working as at Woolies sounds awfully boring, but hey money is money I'll probably hand in my resume tomorrow
I would be very surprised if this is all over in 1-2 months
Also apparently all schools are set to shut on Tuesday a day before my English sac
Schools closing down (for what I believe would be a substantial length of time) would be detrimental to schools like mine where live streams and live classes are ruled out as an option. That means we basically have to learn based off of slides and notes and learn pretty much independently. Yes we can ask questions via email but it can't compete to face-to-face interactions with the teacher. I'm lucky I'm doing subjects that won't be too affected by a closure but what about those who are doing folio subjects and VET?That's the exact same situation at my school!
I know that a school closure is required given how quickly this crisis is growing, but it won't be ideal to Year 12 students and schools with inadequate resources like mine. :-\
arghh my school is literally the embodiment of the 'i'm not like most girls' phenomenon as majority of independent/private schools have already closed whereas my school has stated that they won't shut down unless they're issued a directive from the government !!! luckily my global 3/4 sac was postponed until next term... but i still have 3 other sacs on this week :(( all this uncertainty is stressing me out !
don't take my word for it, but you only have school tomorrow, and then no school on Tuesday.
As Daniel Andrews has mentioned on his twitter page: https://twitter.com/DanielAndrewsMP/status/1241578357537386496/photo/1
If you click on the image of the media release, it displays his plans to control the virus in Victoria.
Also, Andrews states that he plans on bringing school holidays forward to Tuesday. From my understanding, that means, that no schools will be teaching anything to their students after Tuesday, even over online sessions...? I only say this because he specifically mentioned school holidays.
Yeah from my understanding bringing the school holidays forward eliminates the pressure on teachers to be teaching online by Tuesday... I was supposed to have a legal sac and a bio sac on Tuesday (the bio one is the one ive been waiting to do since week 2 but my schools fked me around a bit) BIG RIP
Guys I am very unfamiliar with online learning and also very bad with time management so idk how I am gonna cope :( :( :(I know what you mean! Time management and accountability can be difficult, but you might find that you enjoy a self-directed (ish) style of learning. Will you have some form of contact with your teachers?
Guys I am very unfamiliar with online learning and also very bad with time management so idk how I am gonna cope :( :( :(Just made this so hopefully some other people may have suggestions to help you!
The uncertainty is crazy frustrating. Our school told us last week that today was going to be a day off for teachers to do some "online learning" training, so I guess that means that I'm done for the term... I highly doubt we'll be back on the school premise doing classes in three weeks, even though that's what our teachers are saying...We had a lot of uncertainty for a week or two whilst uni decided what to do (and changed their minds three hundred times). Would hate to have to deal with that over the holidays as well. I would just get all homework etc done as soon as you can so that you can just forget about school for a bit and not need to deal with the differences you'll get if its face to face/online until you actually have to go back.
i think its very likely school won't reopen at the start of term 2, and although my school does have good procedures for online learning, i'm just so confused on how we are going to be doing sacs and stuff. surely they won't make us do them at home?A fair few sac type assessments are done at home during uni so it is possible. The VCAA rules around sac assessment could be adaptable to online sacs.
No clue how likely this is, or how the majority would feel, but what are the chances VCAA dumps the internal rankings system and makes the final exam 100%?
Sorta like how the HSC was run in Victoria years ago.Yep, used to be like that in all states 30-40 years ago.
No clue how likely this is, or how the majority would feel, but what are the chances VCAA dumps the internal rankings system and makes the final exam 100%?I reckon that would face more public resistance & heaps more stress on year 12s than doing some sort of internal assessment, in whatever form that may be, so I don't think it'd be a good move.
I reckon that would face more public resistance & heaps more stress on year 12s than doing some sort of internal assessment, in whatever form that may be, so I don't think it'd be a good move.Definitely don't think it's a good move, but it's been done before and we all know what VCAA is like...
Also, with schools potentially going to online mode, it will again affect students. A portion of students would probably prefer face-to-face learning and maybe they'll find online learning too difficult to them or hard to adjust to as they are not used to it. Again, this is another factor that will ultimately affect their learning.Same could be said in reverse so I don't think this is a big deal - definitely something that ses will effect as high ses people will be able to afford tutors and more likely to have better educated parents who can help them but that is how it is with regular school too.
The uncertainty is crazy frustrating. Our school told us last week that today was going to be a day off for teachers to do some "online learning" training, so I guess that means that I'm done for the term... I highly doubt we'll be back on the school premise doing classes in three weeks, even though that's what our teachers are saying...I think I do have some form of contact with my teachers, but idk how teaching is suppose to work online. I think some of my teachers are very disorganised same goes for students. I am in year 11 now, I feel bad for year 12's cuz some of them have not completed unit 3 sacs yet. Also I heard my teacher said they will be doing test online, I just pray that no one cheats. I will try to force myself into doing some work I guess. For some reason it seems like my school seems happen about holidays starting early.
I know what you mean! Time management and accountability can be difficult, but you might find that you enjoy a self-directed (ish) style of learning. Will you have some form of contact with your teachers?
Opinions?I guess the sentiment is understandable at this point in time but I don't agree with a lot of which is brough brought up. The other systems they propose are much more prone to corruption. They cite they wan't to reduce the inequity in the system (obviously, everyone agrees even without the pandemic it is not a perfect system) but the changes they propose would only increase inequities. Especially the type admissions they are seeking such as teacher's acknowledging satisfactory requiements and these "portfolios" of "learning and life" will make university admissions much more subjective and potentially also exacerbate SES differences.
http://change.org/p/federal-and-state-ministers-for-education-australia-noatar2020-australia?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_21008131_en-AU%3Av3&recruiter=925445925&recruited_by_id=c1a5ebf0-08ff-11e9-9e4c-33a37c70198c&utm_source=share_pet
Opinions?I disagree with the proposal. Since the ATAR is a rank, and everyone is experiencing the effects of the coronavirus, the ATAR will still be 'accurate' as with previous years. The only barrier is SES, which exists without the virus, as Sine as already said. I think the maximum effect it will have on schools is up till term 2, anything further is unlikely at this point in time (although possible) so I still think students will be able to complete their exams. I think VCAA/other states might have to change a few things up regarding SACs, however, if schools are on lockdown for a prolonged period of time.
http://change.org/p/federal-and-state-ministers-for-education-australia-noatar2020-australia?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_21008131_en-AU%3Av3&recruiter=925445925&recruited_by_id=c1a5ebf0-08ff-11e9-9e4c-33a37c70198c&utm_source=share_pet
Opinions?LMAO the guy who started that petition is the former principal of my high school and is a very adamant supporter of alternative entry to university and removing atars. Not surprised to see him using this opportunity to try and decrease focus on atar.
http://change.org/p/federal-and-state-ministers-for-education-australia-noatar2020-australia?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_21008131_en-AU%3Av3&recruiter=925445925&recruited_by_id=c1a5ebf0-08ff-11e9-9e4c-33a37c70198c&utm_source=share_pet
everyone is experiencing the effects of the coronavirus, the ATAR will still be 'accurate' as with previous years.Coronavirus is not at all affecting people equally & it absolutely will disadvantage some people more e.g. people without internet, people who have sick/dying relatives or have to take extra measures to prevent relatives getting sick, etc. The question is whether seas can account for that exacerbation of disadvantage and that remains to be seen.
I disagree with the proposal. Since the ATAR is a rank, and everyone is experiencing the effects of the coronavirus, the ATAR will still be 'accurate' as with previous years. The only barrier is SES, which exists without the virus, as Sine as already said. I think the maximum effect it will have on schools is up till term 2, anything further is unlikely at this point in time (although possible) so I still think students will be able to complete their exams. I think VCAA/other states might have to change a few things up regarding SACs, however, if schools are on lockdown for a prolonged period of time.I agree too, I think everyone should just try to hang on 4-5 weeks and see how it goes. It may only last until term 2 (I HOPE IT DOES NOT GO LONGER). The only difference is that sacs might have to be done elsewhere or online. I think Vcaa should dump internal rankings and make the exam 100% does anyone else agree?
I agree too, I think everyone should just try to hang on 4-5 weeks and see how it goes. It may only last until term 2 (I HOPE IT DOES NOT GO LONGER). The only difference is that sacs might have to be done elsewhere or online. I think Vcaa should dump internal rankings and make the exam 100% does anyone else agree?I highly doubt that VCAA would drop rankings and turn the exam to equate 100%. SACs have been done at home many times at online school like VSV. This has happened for MANY years, and whilst the ranking may be a little bit stuffed up due to someone giving themselves a little extra time, or peaking at their textbook, it still all comes down to skill, especially in subjective subjects like English. Not everyone well get the same score, so there will still be ranks. That's just my reasoning though. It will be interesting to see what they do though. Plus, if the exam was worth 100%, it would put so much stress on students, as well as the many folio subjects and arts, like PDT, food studies, ART, dance, theater studies etc that have their exam percentage worth so little due to having many practical assignments.
I highly doubt that VCAA would drop rankings and turn the exam to equate 100%. SACs have been done at home many times at online school like VSV. This has happened for MANY years, and whilst the ranking may be a little bit stuffed up due to someone giving themselves a little extra time, or peaking at their textbook, it still all comes down to skill, especially in subjective subjects like English. Not everyone well get the same score, so there will still be ranks. That's just my reasoning though. It will be interesting to see what they do though. Plus, if the exam was worth 100%, it would put so much stress on students, as well as the many folio subjects and arts, like PDT, food studies, ART, dance, theater studies etc that have their exam percentage worth so little due to having many practical assignments.How does VSV do it online? Also does that mean that some students will cheat?
I have been thinking for the past week about VCAA lowering the aggregates for the ATARS. How likely would this be? What is everyone's thoughts on the situation and what do you think VCAA will enforce?What would that change though?
Local school principal announced that schools would be open as students of essential workers, and vulnerable kids need somewhere to go (same as the thing with childcare's reopening). Don't know if it was an official statement to parents or to teachers (parents are teachers) and not sure whether that's her speculation or what she's been told by a higher up.
If this is not possible, then GAT, SACs, and year 11 marks will be used for a derived ATAR as a last resort. (Plan B)
Personally not a huge fan of scrapping exams. Relying on teachers' sacs and assignments is just a huge no no. I can already think of a million things that are wrong with that. Difficulty of the SACs given and the marking, the SAC itself, they're all different across all schools. I can tell you from my school that teachers are almost always never accurate and the thought of my ATAR being reliant on them just stresses me out. I never thought twice to stress about the inaccuracies of my school due to the exam which kind of levels out the playing field.HELL NO TO TEACHERS JUDGEMENT AND HELL NO TO USING GATS. Hell yeah to moving exams tho, cuz I can cope well with extra time. Lol I am freaking out right now, cuz so much uncertainty. Teachers can be quite bias (not saying that to scare people) and favour some students over others so therefore I too can think of millions of things that can go wrong with this. What I nominate is maybe scrapping 1 sac and making the other sac worth half the study score or majority of the study score. Than the exam the rest of the study score. I think shortening the study design is a great idea especially for methods.
The GAT, based on my experience, is not that great at determining study scores... my GAT scores last year were absolutely horrendous and I can only imagine what study score I would have gotten if they based it off of such. Yes this time calls for uncertainty and mental strain but cancelling exams will just deepen the inequality that this virus has already caused.
What do you guys think of shortening the study design and cutting out some chunks of it for the lost time? Some of my teachers have talked about this prior to the shutdown and want to hear your thoughts on it.
The GAT is being moved to October/November.I think having exams in December and ATARs released in January is a really great idea. However, Plan B is quite bad and the statistical validity of the ATARs won't be that great - I would expect a heap of students to be repeating year 12 next year if that was the case.
The exams are being moved to December.
The Atars will most likely be released at January.
If this is not possible, then GAT, SACs, and year 11 marks will be used for a derived ATAR as a last resort. (Plan B)
SAC will be reduced for all students.
Exam period may be shortened.
Exams themselves may be shortened.
There will be laptops given out to households who don't have one, and we are being told schools will open next Wednesday, however if you can stay home and do remote learning you should.
THERE will be an ATAR, and there won't be year 13.
Just announced from the premier and education minister.
I think having exams in December and ATARs released in January is a really great idea. However, Plan B is quite bad and the statistical validity of the ATARs won't be that great - I would expect a heap of students to be repeating year 12 next year if that was the case.Personally I think exams should be extending further just cuz we are uncertain how long this corona virus thing will last. I feel like life will not be normal again for at least months and we got a long road ahead.
Its good to finally get some clarification about what is going to happen, my parents are telling me that even if I have SACs I should be staying home which makes sense but if I've got a SAC you best believe I'll be going to school.
FWIW If I was in this position in year 12 I would really just be hoping for 100% study score on exams. There are of course many negatives of having your entire study score based upon your performance on a single day. However, I see exams as a great leveller that removes the difficulties of comparing SACs and SAC marking across schools. It is going to become quite murky with some SACs being cancelled, struggling to fit in other SACs and especially how you can safely conduct a cohort SAC during these times.
Full exams sometime in Dec when *hopefully* COVID-19 has blown over would be perhaps the best compromise in my view.
There's no point to this, because you can not expect your teacher for that subject to be attending work.
The GAT is being moved to October/November.
The exams are being moved to December.
The Atars will most likely be released at January.
If this is not possible, then GAT, SACs, and year 11 marks will be used for a derived ATAR as a last resort. (Plan B)
SAC will be reduced for all students.
Exam period may be shortened.
Exams themselves may be shortened.
There will be laptops given out to households who don't have one, and we are being told schools will open next Wednesday, however if you can stay home and do remote learning you should.
THERE will be an ATAR, and there won't be year 13.
All this sounds alright but as someone who did absolutely appallingly in Year 11, I am terrified at that "Plan B" idea. (I'm sure there are many of us who might feel the same way. My GAT scores are the worst you probably will ever see). This also brings the idea that worst-case scenario we might have to full-on study for the GAT... (really hope not). I like the idea of pushing back the exams till December and getting results in January as it means we probably can continue our studies right to the end.From the press conference what they were saying was that they would shorten the exams, not the study designs. So instead of the regular 2:45 minute exam, it may be shortened to 2 hours in order to fit more exams in on that day, to allow the exam period to be spread across a shorter time span instead of the normal 3 weeks. That is just from my understanding though.
When they mean 'shortening the exam' do they mean literally taking chunks out of the study design? What would happen to prerequisite subjects like Methods and Chem then? (Learn it in uni or something?). I'd rather repeat Year 12 in all honesty :'(
All this sounds alright but as someone who did absolutely appallingly in Year 11, I am terrified at that "Plan B" idea. (I'm sure there are many of us who might feel the same way. My GAT scores are the worst you probably will ever see). This also brings the idea that worst-case scenario we might have to full-on study for the GAT... (really hope not). I like the idea of pushing back the exams till December and getting results in January as it means we probably can continue our studies right to the end.
When they mean 'shortening the exam' do they mean literally taking chunks out of the study design? What would happen to prerequisite subjects like Methods and Chem then? (Learn it in uni or something?). I'd rather repeat Year 12 in all honesty :'(
All this sounds alright but as someone who did absolutely appallingly in Year 11, I am terrified at that "Plan B" idea. (I'm sure there are many of us who might feel the same way. My GAT scores are the worst you probably will ever see). This also brings the idea that worst-case scenario we might have to full-on study for the GAT... (really hope not). I like the idea of pushing back the exams till December and getting results in January as it means we probably can continue our studies right to the end.Sadly, tutoring companies are probably already scrambling to prepare "GAT resources" to push immediately if the plan B outcome eventuates.
When they mean 'shortening the exam' do they mean literally taking chunks out of the study design? What would happen to prerequisite subjects like Methods and Chem then? (Learn it in uni or something?). I'd rather repeat Year 12 in all honesty :'(
If Plan B was to go ahead (really hope it doesn't!!), what would happen to people who have already done a 3/4? I put a tonne of effort in last year and I would like to see my score utilised. However, I also understand that we wouldn't want to disadvantage people who haven't done a 3/4?Pure speculation (since no official statement that I know of) but the logical thing would be to use any study score that has already been obtained by sitting the end of year exam. After all, that is a more accurate estimation of what study score someone should get than sacs/GAT/year 11 report/teacher discretion etc
If Plan B was to go ahead (really hope it doesn't!!), what would happen to people who have already done a 3/4? I put a tonne of effort in last year and I would like to see my score utilised. However, I also understand that we wouldn't want to disadvantage people who haven't done a 3/4?
If Plan B was to go ahead (really hope it doesn't!!), what would happen to people who have already done a 3/4? I put a tonne of effort in last year and I would like to see my score utilised. However, I also understand that we wouldn't want to disadvantage people who haven't done a 3/4?
This is a really good point. Also, what would happen for people that didn't do a study of a certain 3/4 subject in 1/2? Would they just join all your scores together from your other subjects and get an average or would they have to rely on other things such as your GAT if you haven't done a sequence of that study before?
That would be horrific to the whole system.
The point of doing a 1/2 subject in the first place is to make mistakes and grow as a learner, not to be put on the spot and be told 'Hey, we are using your scores now as a Plan B thank you'. Where did all the ideas of learning go when they made that Plan B idea?
*Mini-rant coming through*
I'm sure many of us made plenty of mistakes in Year 11, specifically made mistakes to learn. That was a trial year for us, for us to all learn new things, make mistakes and try new ideas and all of a sudden that's now a backup plan? We were all comfortable knowing about getting an S or an N and being able to do badly because it was Year 11. With this whole new idea it's like the concept of learning has gone out of the window and that they expect us to be perfect in Year 11 (that is what Year 12 is for not Year 11).
*Mini-rant ended*
All students will be learning from home, except for students in the following categories:
1. Children on days when they are not able to be supervised at home and no other arrangements can be made.
This will be available for children of parents who cannot work from home, and vulnerable children, including:
· children in out-of-home care
· children deemed by Child Protection and/or Family Services to be at risk of harm
· children identified by the school as vulnerable (including via referral from a family violence agency, homelessness or youth justice service or mental health or other health service and children with a disability).
2. For learning requirements that cannot be conducted via distance, and considering operational requirements set out below, small groups of VCE and VCAL students are permitted to attend school, with appropriate physical distancing and hygiene measures in place.
It is not clear if "learning requirements that can not be conducted at a distance" includes SACs needing to be supervised. It probably doesn't (it's too big a loophole).
In terms of SACs, they can be run at home. My further SAC was run at home, so basically it was in a Microsoft form and we were on zoom video the entire time. We could only leave if we contacted the teacher, and we had to show our workspace. Some SACs with a smaller cohort have gone ahead, but it is possible to do a SAC at home, however, I'm not sure how it would work in some schools.
How can they mark working out on a Microsoft form?
So I just heard of the plan B and plan C thing on the news, so far I think gonna have to disagree with plan C tho. Using GAT (which is not important), year 11 marks (which I did poorly at) or school based judgement is a terrible plan. I most likely have to disagree with pretty much all plans. In my opinion exams should go on or be delayed. Is the remote learning thing going for all term 2? or just a small part of it?
Is the remote learning thing going for all term 2? or just a small part of it?
At the moment all of Term 2. But like what we've seen, anything can change at any time.Honestly I hope not longer, I think we are starting to flatten that corona virus curve. I feel like it should occur term 2, but potential (hope not) longer. My school just sent a message as well, to all students and said that students who can learn from home MUST LEARN FROM HOME; schools will remain open tho.
There's no 'right' way to approach this whole thing either, by the way. Nothing is going to be 100% and there's going to always be someone that disagrees or is hard done by because of it, but honestly this is something I know I haven't seen in my lifetime. It sucks that it has disrupted Year 12 and you're the unlucky bunch that has copped it, but the health of yourself and everybody else takes priority. The "Plan B and C" are worst case scenarios and they are at the moment just ideas. In a terrible situation, we're all just doing our best and making the most of what we can. Over the past month I have led (as part of a small ICT team) the online transition for my school and there is worry from Year 12 teachers as well (quite rightly)... but know this, your school will be doing EVERYTHING they can to support you all during this time within the guidelines set.
I'd honestly be prepared for all of Term 2 with the potential for longer. They (the government(s)) will not risk a return to school (which is a crowded/populated place, with a clear inability to maintain social distancing if all students/teachers are present) while its still spreading, given the strict social isolation and quarantining which has inconvenienced most if not all of our lives for a good couple of weeks now.
https://www.smh.com.au/education/kill-the-atar-call-to-cancel-exams-amid-coronavirus-outbreak-and-as-unscored-vce-gains-ground-20200330-p54fdd.htmlIf there is an option for unscored VCE couldn't everyone who wants to scrap the ATAR just do an unscored VCE?
Idk about you guys but I don't think randoms should be able to sign a petition to scrap the ATAR, I think if anything it should be exclusive to students and perhaps teachers....this is old news but what do you all think?
If there is an option for unscored VCE couldn't everyone who wants to scrap the ATAR just do an unscored VCE?That's my thought process, but maybe people think if everyone does 'unscored' then everyone has equal chance to go to uni? It baffles me, because even if the entire state goes shit SOMEONE has to get the 99.95's and 99's etc
If there is an option for unscored VCE couldn't everyone who wants to scrap the ATAR just do an unscored VCE?
That's my thought process, but maybe people think if everyone does 'unscored' then everyone has equal chance to go to uni? It baffles me, because even if the entire state goes shit SOMEONE has to get the 99.95's and 99's etc
If there is an option for unscored VCE couldn't everyone who wants to scrap the ATAR just do an unscored VCE?
If there is an option for unscored VCE couldn't everyone who wants to scrap the ATAR just do an unscored VCE?
That's my thought process, but maybe people think if everyone does 'unscored' then everyone has equal chance to go to uni? It baffles me, because even if the entire state goes shit SOMEONE has to get the 99.95's and 99's etc
That doesn't follow. One might dislike ATARs but want to do a course that requires a minimum ATAR for entry.I like a few points in this! Universities do have their own standards themselves and I feel like even if we did get rid of the ATAR system, having something like 'entrance exams' would pretty much be exactly the same as the ATAR to begin with, maybe even worse. It's like saying for some courses you need a "Study score of 25 in Methods", however, if we did get rid of the ATAR system, to begin with, and let's say look at the exams, they probably would raise the cut-off mark to be much higher than it is now (not all unis can accommodate everyone. Kinda like inflation if that makes sense?).
I don't have any evidence, but my hunch would be that there's very little variation from year to year in the academic ability of the 99.xx cohort. But you're right, the fact that ATAR is a ranking rather than a more direct measure of academic achievement is a significant problem.
There's also no reason to believe that removing ATARs would undermine the integrity of university admissions. Just require minimum standards of performance on prerequisite subjects - where "minimum standard" is not measured by study scores but by raw scores on exams.
-snip-
-snip-Completely agree with both who make really good arguments.
We do not need a system for ranking university applicants.This is an interesting point. :o (I love all these different opinions)
The only reason people think this is true is because this is currently how things work and because we have a federal government that is unwilling to provide the level of funding required for all academically able students to complete a degree of their choice.
Removing ATAR would not result in a vague / inequitable university admissions system (or at least anymore than it currently is). Simply set minimum academic standards (as judged by raw scores on VCE exams). There is no need for universities to set their own entrance exams.
This is an interesting point. :o (I love all these different opinions)
My two cents here, but you know how you said 'minimum academic standards' right? What happens when an exam is considered to be very difficult one year or really easy? Would universities change their 'minimum academic standards' or would it increase/decrease due to demand of how many people want to study a certain course?
This is also an economic issue too as we can't have everyone who passed the minimum academic standards get into the course they want (there are only so many spots)
Also got a quick question, let's say you are a year 12 in 2020 and say that all the exams you did this year were hard (assume you barely passed the minimum academic standard thingy). Then let's say you had a gap year or something and then when you apply again, would they compare your scores based off the cohort you graduated from or the new cohort coming into uni who had easier exams?🤣 (I don't even know if what I said makes sense. Like how would you compare your scores to those that did the same subject in different years?)
Making entrance exams would just mean another scholarship/selective type exam but for entry into higher education institutions.
This is the point that we (ie. people involved in education) need to push back against. There is no economic issue. The reason we currently don't allow any academically capable student to enrol in a course of their choice is that our federal government chooses not to adequately fund universities. They can afford it (the Australian government issues its own currency, so it has unlimited money). They choose not to.
They can afford it (the Australian government issues its own currency, so it has unlimited money).
Pro tip: Don't make huge life changes less than a year before a pandemic shuts the world down. It causes some complications.
Pro tip: Don't do Year 12 in the year a pandemic shuts the world down. It causes some complications.
The government does NOT have 'unlimited money', it has an annual budget from which to make ends meet. Printing a crap ton of money is just a tax on savers and will cause more problems than solutions.
I don't think that's much of an issue. Looking at grade distributions on VCAA exams for past years, the variation in student performance is fairly small.
My thoughts exactly. If someone truly believes that the ATAR should be scrapped, then they should have a proposition for a better system. I haven't heard a single idea for a better system. As opposed to straight standardised tests, the ATAR not only rewards aptitude, but hard work and persistence. If you don't plan to go to university, then you don't need to receive an ATAR.No atars should not be scrapped and in terms of uni entrance someone will have to miss out on their preferred courses because imagine what it would be like if everyone got into law/med/engineer. Academics in my opinion is the best way to rank students as oppose to the U.S system where other things are taken into consideration. I personally think the atar system is quite good (some flaws in it) however it was done its duty.
The bottom line is that students need to be ranked in one way or another for university entrances, and I believe that looking at Year 12 results are the best way of doing it. Our system is vastly superior to countries like US, where they consider all sorts of things like extra-curricular activities and internships, which mostly benefits those who have parents that can fund those activities, (not to mention heaps of application essays that are just a competition of who can find the best application writer) and the ATAR completely avoids nepotism and gender or racial bias. Of course, the ATAR system isn't perfect, and I think there are plenty of valid criticisms, but I am yet to hear of a reasonable alternative.
My final point is in relation to the idea that the ATAR being a rank is a bad thing. Universities will inevitably rank applicants by academic performance, so I believe that having a system that can assess and balance academic performance across the whole state is far more equitable than leaving it to university discretion.
Hey everyone!!
My school hasn't released a statement about what they're going to do during term 2. It is an independent school, does this mean they get to choose whether we go to school or not. James Merlino, the minister of education said every student should stay home if they can but I am not sure if he's directing his message to public schools or the whole lot...
What do you guys say?
No atars should not be scrapped and in terms of uni entrance someone will have to miss out on their preferred courses because imagine what it would be like if everyone got into law/med/engineer. Academics in my opinion is the best way to rank students as oppose to the U.S system where other things are taken into consideration. I personally think the atar system is quite good (some flaws in it) however it was done its duty.
Not everyone wants to do law/med/engineering (fortunately). Though it's certainly possible far more people want to do them than society has a need for. And so I completely agree with you.
However, your words do make me wonder what effect scrapping entry requirements would have on the idea of "Wasting your ATAR". Currently, as I understand it, some people with very high marks do law/medicine because they feel they should or because of family pressure. If there were no entry requirements, maybe more people with lower marks would do law/med, but more people with the highest marks would be free to do what they actually want to do.
Not everyone wants to do law/med/engineering (fortunately). Though it's certainly possible far more people want to do them than society has a need for. And so I completely agree with you.In my opinion and mine alone, I prefer those with high scores to do the important courses like medicine for obvious reasons. I mean no one wants to have bad doctors or engineers ya know. Those with higher marks generally do not go into courses with lower entry scores because it takes away their pride and families would be very disappointed. Personally I am not a fan of people with lower scores to do medicine or courses of that level, since getting a low atar already told its own story. Yes, it is true an atar is not a reflection of future performance, but if someone gets a bad atar it does show lack of commitment.
However, your words do make me wonder what effect scrapping entry requirements would have on the idea of "Wasting your ATAR". Currently, as I understand it, some people with very high marks do law/medicine because they feel they should or because of family pressure. If there were no entry requirements, maybe more people with lower marks would do law/med, but more people with the highest marks would be free to do what they actually want to do.
In my opinion and mine alone, I prefer those with high scores to do the important courses like medicine for obvious reasons. I mean no one wants to have bad doctors or engineers ya know. Those with higher marks generally do not go into courses with lower entry scores because it takes away their pride and families would be very disappointed. Personally I am not a fan of people with lower scores to do medicine or courses of that level, since getting a low atar already told its own story. Yes, it is true an atar is not a reflection of future performance, but if someone gets a bad atar it does show lack of commitment.
The reasons may not be as obviously correct as you think. It might, in theory, make sense to have 'smarter' people becoming doctors or engineers but this is not true for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the ATAR isn't even necessarily the perfect measure of someone's 'smartness'. Indeed, probably a better predictor of ATAR success is how rich your parents are rather than your IQ. You say a low ATAR tells its own 'story' and shows 'lack of commitment' but this is often very far from the truth. Here's a quick generalised example. Student A: Attends 5 different tutors for each subject, goes to a private school, has all the time in the world to study and has a plethora of resources at his/her disposal. Student B: Goes to a low SES school, has not even heard of external tutoring, works two jobs including night shifts sometimes just to help feed his/her family and barely gets time to study (or even a quiet place to do so). I'll let you imagine the difference in their outcomes. Another factor is that the entry requirements for the courses you mentioned are very high. Leaving behind the ATAR measure, are we really saying that a 95 scorer isn't 'good enough' for such a course, unlike a 99 scorer? A few ATAR points?Sorry I didn't mean that in a bad way, I am saying it is in everyones best interest to have the strongest students do the most important courses just because lives are in their hands. Yes, what you said is very true, I understand peoples scenarios and can understand why some may not do well. Also wealth does not equal to doing well believe me, I heard stories of smart people getting bad grades and terrible atars. Also 99 and 95 can still do medicine, nothing against this. A bad atar is around 50's/60's range not 90's or 80's. Also in the wake of the corona virus pandemic there is so much uncertainty for the future and the thought of going to school online is freaking me out.
Here's a fun study for you to read --> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329408770_Selection_and_lottery_in_medical_school_admissions_who_gains_and_who_loses
In short, it showed there is often very little or non-existent differences in the future performance of medical students picked through a stratified lottery system compared to an entry score based one. Meanwhile, there were massive gains in the diversity of the students in turn benefitting society as a whole.
ETA: Probably doesn't belong here. Feel free to move this conversation to appropriate thread mods!
Sorry I didn't mean that in a bad way.
That’s completely fine! I know you didn’t mean in it in a bad way. I know I came across a bit stern but believe me, the views you express are not uncommon as they often do come from a good place. I can definitely understand the uncertainty and stress you’re facing too.Thank you for understanding :)
There was a point of time where I also considered the ATAR to be the gold standard measure and would have agreed with you regarding the ATAR requirements for certain courses. It’s important to always be critical of beliefs you might hold and be willing to open your mind to possibilities that may be against what you may think. Only that allowed someone like myself to be more understanding of factors such as privilege. We are all in a position to grow as people as long as we are open to it :)
Above all I think it’s important to be respectful and not use terms such as ‘bad’ to describe an ATAR. What might be low for you might be the dream scenario for another.
This is the first lesson of online learning for me and it is disastrous. Heck I was planning on acing term 2 and so far things aren't going to plan. I lack a lot of self discipline and therefore I am already behind in school work AND IT IS THE FIRST DAY!!!! If things continue the way they are I think I am in for a bad year.
The reasons may not be as obviously correct as you think. It might, in theory, make sense to have 'smarter' people becoming doctors or engineers but this is not true for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the ATAR isn't even necessarily the perfect measure of someone's 'smartness'. Indeed, probably a better predictor of ATAR success is how rich your parents are rather than your IQ. You say a low ATAR tells its own 'story' and shows 'lack of commitment' but this is often very far from the truth. Here's a quick generalised example. Student A: Attends 5 different tutors for each subject, goes to a private school, has all the time in the world to study and has a plethora of resources at his/her disposal. Student B: Goes to a low SES school, has not even heard of external tutoring, works two jobs including night shifts sometimes just to help feed his/her family and barely gets time to study (or even a quiet place to do so). I'll let you imagine the difference in their outcomes. Another factor is that the entry requirements for the courses you mentioned are very high. Leaving behind the ATAR measure, are we really saying that a 95 scorer isn't 'good enough' for such a course, unlike a 99 scorer? A few ATAR points?
Here's a fun study for you to read --> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329408770_Selection_and_lottery_in_medical_school_admissions_who_gains_and_who_loses
In short, it showed there is often very little or non-existent differences in the future performance of medical students picked through a stratified lottery system compared to an entry score based one. Meanwhile, there were massive gains in the diversity of the students in turn benefitting society as a whole.
ETA: Probably doesn't belong here. Feel free to move this conversation to appropriate thread mods!
What do y'all think VCAA will say in their statement on monday?reiterate what they have already said, maybe something out releasing an exam calendar in the next month
reiterate what they have already said, maybe something out releasing an exam calendar in the next month
Guys may I ask how are you communicating with your teachers? I feel I am not learning anything :(I wish my school was using Teams it a pretty good platform, im communicating w/ my teachers via email or hangouts (text) which is working really well and tagging teachers in comments on google docs if i need help with an essay or an assignment and they can comment back with feedback/explanation.
Our school uses something called Microsoft teams and so far I do not think it is working for me.
I wish my school was using Teams it a pretty good platform, im communicating w/ my teachers via email or hangouts (text) which is working really well and tagging teachers in comments on google docs if i need help with an essay or an assignment and they can comment back with feedback/explanation.Thanks for the response.
I use Teams for VicSRC and it works well, every new topic is a new post and you the chat works well too
I've noticed that some schools are still doing graded SACs this term for Unit 3 subjects. Is it just my school that isn't?
I've noticed that some schools are still doing graded SACs this term for Unit 3 subjects. Is it just my school that isn't?
I've noticed that some schools are still doing graded SACs this term for Unit 3 subjects. Is it just my school that isn't?whys is right that schools can choose to approach internal assessments however they want as VCAA has not said anything in particular regarding how they should be run. My school is not doing SACs until the lockdown is lifted. This, of course, is not that great since we'll have a week or two blocked full of SACs. Also, if the lockdown is not lifted by then, then it will pose more problems in the long term.
whys is right that schools can choose to approach internal assessments however they want as VCAA has not said anything in particular regarding how they should be run. My school is not doing SACs until the lockdown is lifted. This, of course, is not that great since we'll have a week or two blocked full of SACs. Also, if the lockdown is not lifted by then, then it will pose more problems in the long term.I think my school might be doing SACS online with cameras on. Honestly I hope this lockdown thing lifts quickly because I am not a fan of delaying SACS/test/projects.
Hey guysjust depends on the aggregate cut off for 99.95
I notice on the ATARcalculator that the aggregate for 99.95 varies each year. How are these determined? Also does this mean you could get a 99.95 in certain years with just 5 subjects (having spesh as the only subject that scales above 50)? I ask this because I am curious to see if there will be any variation in the aggregate for 99.95 this year which would make it attainable with only 5 subjects.
UPDATE: Victorian schools expected to start soon!
Year 3-10: by June 9th
Year Prep-2, 11-12: May 26th
UPDATE: Victorian schools expected to start soon!
Year 3-10: by June 9th
Year Prep-2, 11-12: May 26th
They're bringing forward our exams, so our exams will start on the week of the 9th of November and they will be finished by the 2nd of December.
Finally, some dates set in!
Edit: Source: Dan Andrews Facebook page
Honestly so happy about this!
I take the GAT is on September 9th?
They're bringing forward our exams, so our exams will start on the week of the 9th of November and they will be finished by the 2nd of December.
Finally, some dates set in!
Edit: Source: Dan Andrews Facebook page
They're bringing forward our exams, so our exams will start on the week of the 9th of November and they will be finished by the 2nd of December.I'm a bit mixed about the decision. I was really looking forward to having more time to prepare for exams, but I guess it is still a little extra than normal. We get the added bonus of having some content cut out so I guess that makes up for it.
Finally, some dates set in!
Edit: Source: Dan Andrews Facebook page
When do we thing exams schedules are going to come out?Usually, come out in the last week of May if I remember correctly.
Not sure about the GAT, VCAA should hopefully update us with the specifics.
I feel like I'm the only one upset about this...? I'm bothered by the fact that VCAA said the exams will be December and now they suddenly decided to change that, are they not worried about the backlash they may receive?I can understand why you may be upset, but you should also note that VCAA has cut down at least a few weeks content from each subject's study designs, which makes up for the fact that the exams are a bit earlier than the expected date. I don't actually think VCAA confirmed that exams were in December - that was just an estimate but was it never explicitly stated that they would definitely occur in December. I doubt they'd receive much backlash, because from what I can see the decision has been well-received overall, although I can definitely see a group of people not being happy with this. No matter what decision VCAA makes, there will always be supporters and opposers anyway. I guess the only thing you can do is change your mindset and power on. There's also the positives too - more holidays and an earlier ATAR! :D
Any info about when the LOTE Oral exams will be? Same as usual or has it been adjusted?https://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/administration/Key-dates/Pages/VCE-exam-timetable.aspx
My chemistry is like weeks behind
omg literally same, I'm so annoyed at how my teacher decided to teach chemistry during remote learning, especially I found chemistry so challengingOh boy same here, the videos recorded were so long. Legit the videos went for well over an hour and I just can't focus for that long. Chemistry was such a challenge during remote learning and honestly I think once I return to school my teacher is gonna be super mad. I barely did any work for chemistry for those 6 weeks in remote learning and I did nothing during the school holidays either. Opps
Oh boy same here, the videos recorded were so long. Legit the videos went for well over an hour and I just can't focus for that long. Chemistry was such a challenge during remote learning and honestly I think once I return to school my teacher is gonna be super mad. I barely did any work for chemistry for those 6 weeks in remote learning and I did nothing during the school holidays either. Opps
I'm in the same boat but for English!Oh ouch, remote learning honestly was a pain in the ass for many people. I have a feeling those who do science and math subjects are disadvantaged because of remote learning, it is so hard to ask questions online and you don't get as much attention.
English is hard enough for me as it is and I just went straight downhill during remote learning :'(
Oh ouch, remote learning honestly was a pain in the ass for many people. I have a feeling those who do science and math subjects are disadvantaged because of remote learning, it is so hard to ask questions online and you don't get as much attention.
And this doesn't apply for other subjects?? lmao
I think people who do performing/visual arts and technology subjects, those that require specific resources from the school and actual face-to-face interactions would be so much more disadvantaged.
Update for VictoriaHonestly seems like the best thing they can do atm while trying to be the least disruptive to peoples education. Government is very much stuck between a rock and a hard place
- Year 11/12 in metropolitan Melbourne + Mitchell Shire + Specialist Schools will go back to school as normal for term 3. I believe this also includes year 10 and below for their specific VCE subject if they are undertaking any.
- Prep to year 10 have their school holidays extended by 1 week in order for public health officials to gain more data to make a decision (remote learning is a possibility).
Thoughts on this?
I think that sounds like a pretty good idea, but I believe rather than having a possibility of remote learning for Prep - Year 10, I think they should make it Year 1 - Year 9, because Year prep is essential for preparing kids the fundamentals of subjects, and Year 10 is neccessary to prepare students for VCE or whatever course they plan on doing.
Ifwhenremote learning is officially announced, you know it's almost the end of the school year, and you are probably going but you should spend some time figuring out Google Calendar, and add it as a desktop app. Sync it with all your calendars if you can, and make sure you have notifications on your devices turned on only for that and the essentials. Make sure you spend a few minutes every Sunday evening and every workday morning making plans for the day. Punch in all your classes, and have the calendar schedule your other activities automatically. It might sound like a lot of toil, but once you've made it work to your advantage it's super efficient and also super liberating because you can focus on the content of your studies or leisures instead of being on a panic rut.
From experience with the remote learning with both my youngest siblings (grades 2&3), if it goes back to that I just hope it is more than just worksheets that are hard to read because they're so faintly photocopied 😅 it was really hard to sustain their previous levels of enthusiasm for learning with that 🙈
I'm mostly satisfied with this response. I'm aware of the difference in danger/risk of COVID-19 among children compared to adults but I still find it weird that we can't gather in groups of three outside school but then spend hours each day in one room with over 20 people. :)Yeah, the response was alright, but when they lifted restrictions last term, I was actually nervous that they were easing restrictions so fast, it's almost like the government wants a second wave (which they now got) At the same time I also understand the burden of the economic stagnation. But look, now the outcome is worst than what it would've been if they kept the restrictions, now the second wave has hit. A trend that I hope is only an anomaly.
To be honest, I'm just happy that we aren't being sent home again, online SACs would have been an absolute nightmare.
Update for VictoriaWow those year 9 and under are so lucky. My year 9 or under self would be so happy with this. I really hate going into lockdown tho, it sucks. Someone please help me I can't cope with this anymore :(
- Year 11/12 in metropolitan Melbourne + Mitchell Shire + Specialist Schools will go back to school as normal for term 3. I believe this also includes year 10 and below for their specific VCE subject if they are undertaking any.
- Prep to year 10 have their school holidays extended by 1 week in order for public health officials to gain more data to make a decision (remote learning is a possibility).
Thoughts on this?
Wow those year 9 and under are so lucky. My year 9 or under self would be so happy with this. I really hate going into lockdown tho, it sucks. Someone please help me I can't cope with this anymore :(
Thoughts on this?Not much, to be completely honest. We had this coming for us, and there's nothing else we can do except contain the spread before it becomes too late and we end up like the US or the UK (which we definitely do not want). It's great they're still giving VCE students the opportunity to attend school in-person though, hopefully it stays that way and the number of new cases each day declines after these lockdown measures. I'm glad they are issuing a lockdown now, though. Hopefully, the spread of the virus diminishes!
Thoughts on this?
While you may receive some great support over forums, it would be best to make use of an actual professional who can go into specifics of the difficulties you are facing and provide you with help. It may be difficult to access in-person help so a good start would be one of the below. These are free and confidential.Thanks mate.
Kids helpline (1800 55 1800)
Beyond blue (1300 22 4636)
Headspace (1800 650 890)
Almost everyone reading this will be at some level affected by the current pandemic. We could all use someone to talk to whether it be a friend you trust or someone from the above who is trained. Please look out for each other and especially yourselves during this time physically, socially, and mentally.
Otherwise, I think I'm a fan of the incoming restrictions? Idk, kinda hard to be a "fan", more like they just seem reasonable enough, I guess. There's not really much else they can do about it - I do hope people don't complain as much to Daniel Andrews about "how we should be allowed out" now that they know what happens if he does let people out prematurely and they don't follow social distancing 😏
Yeah, the response was alright, but when they lifted restrictions last term, I was actually nervous that they were easing restrictions so fast, it's almost like the government wants a second wave (which they now got) At the same time I also understand the burden of the economic stagnation. But look, now the outcome is worst than what it would've been if they kept the restrictions, now the second wave has hit. A trend that I hope is only an anomaly.
also, as much as i'm looking forward to going outside normally, i'm more looking forward to a time when the palpable state of constant stress and tension subsides and it will feel normal to accidentally brush past someone on public transport or at the shops and not freak out :(
I'm mostly satisfied with this response. I'm aware of the difference in danger/risk of COVID-19 among children compared to adults but I still find it weird that we can't gather in groups of three outside school but then spend hours each day in one room with over 20 people. :)
To be honest, I'm just happy that we aren't being sent home again, online SACs would have been an absolute nightmare.
I don't think people sufficiently factor in the influence of luck in how things go when numbers are small. Yes, mistakes were made here (in hotel quarantine most obviously), and the blame game has started on Victorian compliance generally, but I don't believe that Victoria are somehow 100 times worse at following the guidelines than everyone else, or that we eased restrictions prematurely when other states didn't (my memory is that in mid-May I thought we were in a better position than NSW, and they were easing restrictions faster than us).
The simple reality is that if the numbers are low, most people can break the guidelines most of the time and get away with it because they don't happen to come into contact with someone who has it. And for me in the Eastern suburbs it is probably still that way - there is a fair chance that I could break all the rules and still not come into contact with anyone having the disease, and thus not catch it (no, I'm not recommending breaking rules - just saying that a "personal responsibility" narrative doesn't take into account differences between individuals and states that have more to do with luck than culpability. Just because we want someone to blame doesn't mean the blame is actually fair).
So long as we keep the current "suppression rather than elimination" policy (which we kind of have to do) I'd be amazed if places like Sydney and Brisbane don't have spikes at some point in the next year when one or more things go wrong and a few cases slip under the radar for too long. And how big those spikes become depends on how well state authorities do test and trace after detecting it and how well people in the state are following guidelines - but it will also depend a lot on luck.
As above, my memory is that we eased restrictions slower than other states, and the easing of restrictions was data driven and proportionate to the number of cases we then had. Just like this lockdown is data driven.
Yes, and this has always been the problem with the argument "If you just re-open the economy, things will be back to normal". I suspect after a second lockdown we may be even more eager to get back to normal, but at the same time take longer to convince ourselves things are actually OK. Which is why the National Cabinet was trying to avoid re-opening and then closing again, though the level of community transmission makes this a more serious problem than we've seen so far and needs action.
The "children are safe, so don't close schools" (though young adults may be among the biggest spreaders) has always been an interesting argument, because there's such an age range in school-goers. I was interested that yesterday Brett Sutton acknowledged that attendees in upper high school had more "adult-like" transmission patterns at the same time as agreeing for Year 11 and 12 to return to school. Part of it was that they can get to school themselves and don't have parents mingling at drop-off etc., and part of it is of course that even if Year 12s are higher risk there are also considered to be more benefits from in-person learning for Year 12s.
Is anyone else scared to go back to school? I'm not sure if I'm for going back to school again anymore... I really don't want to pass the virus onto any members of my family who are more at-risk than me if I do end up being an asymptomatic carrier. Is this just going to be an endless cycle of ramping up restrictions then relaxing them over and over until a suitable vaccine is developed? I'm seeing people who don't take social distancing seriously at all, and it really worries me. Is looking at the US and UK not enough of an incentive for the public to do their part in containing the spread of the virus?
Most Victorian students will return to remote learning in term three, with those in years prep to 10.
It has been officially announced that we are returning back to remote learning (those in year prep - 10)
What do you think about this?
Most Victorian students will return to remote learning in term three, with those in years prep to 10.kind of inevitable tbh given the vast majority of the students from prep-10 would need a parent taking them to and from school. Also the inherent increased difficulty of instilling social distancing with those that are younger.
It has been officially announced that we are returning back to remote learning (those in year prep - 10)
What do you think about this?
Most Victorian students will return to remote learning in term three, with those in years prep to 10.Inevitable, but doesn't stop my parents going nooooooooooooo because I'm not around much to help out this time (as it currently stands) 😂😅
It has been officially announced that we are returning back to remote learning (those in year prep - 10)
What do you think about this?
this year is such a mess can I just hibernate to 2021Even if you do 'hibernate' to 2021, I doubt it will be any better... it's impossible to completely ease restrictions until there is a suitable cure or vaccine, unfortunately. And by the looks of it, a vaccine is not going to available in the near future - we can only hope that there's a successful one at the end of this year. If not, the start of 2021 is not looking to be any less bleak.
Even if you do 'hibernate' to 2021, I doubt it will be any better... it's impossible to completely ease restrictions until there is a suitable cure or vaccine, unfortunately. And by the looks of it, a vaccine is not going to available in the near future - we can only hope that there's a successful one at the end of this year. If not, the start of 2021 is not looking to be any less bleak.
Even if there are one or more effective vaccine candidates by the end of the year, scaling it up to the world population will be a non-trivial job that takes time. Even if countries like Australia and the US grab control of a lot of the supply (which I'm hearing is what happened with the swine flu vaccine 10 years ago - and did not make us popular), just getting it manufactured and administered to everyone needing it (most of the population if you want some kind of herd immunity...) will take time.This is true. But don't they already have stuff that they've been testing, at any rate?
this year is such a mess can I just hibernate to 2021I know other people have already said this but - this thing ain't going away soon. Everyone seems to talk about it like everything'll be fine by the end of the year, exams and so forth, and yet that's not how it looks.
This is true. But don't they already have stuff that they've been testing, at any rate?Yes - everyone has been in a mad scramble to be the first to commercialise a successful vaccine, because not only will it prevent everyone from being affected by COVID, but also it'll make them quite rich, haha. However, producing and trialling vaccines is a long process - every time the developing vaccine is found to be unsuitable, they have to scrap it and start over. Like turinturambar stated, distribution also isn't easy, and poses the question of who gets vaccinated first and if those in poverty will even have access to the vaccine.
Why can't we just do hard lockdown - as in, no one sees anyone else for two weeks, no contact at all, and then test everyone? Then the people who come in positive can be kept home (by force if needed) and everyone else can go about their merry way. Or three weeks to be safe.I think this is because hard lockdown for any period of time will significantly worsen the already damaged economy, and the government cares about the economy a lot. I also don't think many people would be keen to do this, because there's the whole thing of if the virus is contained early and infections drop, people will criticise it as too much, and if restrictions are imposed too late and too lax, then people will criticise it as too little. I think this was also discussed on the other thread about Victoria's lockdown measures. There's also a shortage of testing kits, iirc?
This is true. But don't they already have stuff that they've been testing, at any rate?
Why can't we just do hard lockdown - as in, no one sees anyone else for two weeks, no contact at all, and then test everyone? Then the people who come in positive can be kept home (by force if needed) and everyone else can go about their merry way. Or three weeks to be safe.
Like turinturambar stated, distribution also isn't easy, and poses the question of who gets vaccinated first and if those in poverty will even have access to the vaccine.
I think this is because hard lockdown for any period of time will significantly worsen the already damaged economy, and the government cares about the economy a lot.
Retrospectively it looks like we should've gone with the elimination strategy from the start. Given Australia has no borders with other countries and at the beginning only had minimal community transmission it becomes an ideal country to go for the elimination strategy. However, looking back I don't think a lot of the general public would've accepted this and would've said it is an overreaction. Even with the initial lockdown it was quite possible to be done once we got to low levels in Victoria but everyone was complaining about the need to open up quickly.
The economy vs health argument is interesting. We have already seen some countries that have prioritised the economy but they are still getting destroyed regardless. Australia has done ok to somewhat artificially prop up the economy via stimulus payments but once this is all over the real impact of the pandemic is likely to be seen.
What's the false positive rate on those tests? And the false negative rate? Who's administering them? And processing them? How long does it take to test everyone? (took multiple days for a few towers, remember) Are any of the people administering them sick? How do you know there's no-one tested who has contracted it but are not quite infectious yet? Are the people keeping other people home by force not sick? Can they ensure the integrity of their protective equipment while also restraining someone?I know these are issues, I knew it when I said it. It doesn't change the fact that that could be the best policy.
During this hard lockdown, who's taking care of people in hospitals? Aged care homes? People feeling suicidal from the enforced isolation? People in quarantine hotels? Who's delivering babies? Who's stopping the people who inevitably break that lockdown? What's the correct response to domestic violence in lockdown? Who's keeping electricity running? Water? Other essential services?
(or even to get my hair cut :P ).We could tell :P ;)
I know these are issues, I knew it when I said it. It doesn't change the fact that that could be the best policy.
'Outright rebellion' - in a world that is more connected than ever before, I think we're just too much used to our own way! I get that it's hard, I get it, I get it, but seriously? In preparing for it, aren't we basically telling people we expect them to break rules in such a way that we'll probably end up with several people dead? In the past they would've done it, wouldn't've expected to break rules (except for a minority) and wouldn't have the ability to contact others as we can. Granted, this is unprecendented, but we've had smaller-scale things than this before and stuck to the rules. Is it unreasonable to class us Generation Wimp?
We could tell :P ;)
If it's unworkable it's not the best policy.Perhaps. But I contend that it isn't unworkable - just difficult.
Absolutely it's unreasonable to class us Generation Wimp. Talking about people dying isn't necessarily helpful when I identified multiple ways your suggestion could put people at risk of dying. And what makes you think you'd find greater compliance in past generations than now?We're too used to being able to do everything we want. I do think we'd have greater compliance in past generations. For one, they were more used to being forced to make do - something we aren't. There was this thing called 'grin and bear it', 'stiff upper lip'. You notice it isn't extant any more?
But you took two words way out of context. Read the sentence again. This isn't about obedience, it's about trust.OK.
I think this is a lot worse with your proposal: Yes, I think a large percentage of Victorians would agree to harsher restrictions over a few weeks over lighter restrictions over 6+ weeks. But to make that deal, the government has to essentially guarantee that the harsh restrictions will be successful. And they can't. If they succeed, great. But if they fail, how many people will trust them to get it right next time? Lighter restrictions over a longer period of time allows them to adjust restrictions and choose a re-open date in response to the data, rather than making a one-off gamble and hoping it works out.That might be true. I guess people are probably less compliant now because of the time we did it and relaxed already. I'm not too happy with people's behaviour then either, but that isn't the issue now.
I joked with a co-worker that I wouldn't get my hair cut this year. This may well end up true.Perhaps... do you really think it'll go on that long? Bringing it back to education - what about VCE education and so forth? Do you think it'll stay the way they're optimistically saying now?
This thread is for discussion about COVID-19's impact on education and, as has been noted, it's been veering off-topic. There is already a thread on opinions about Victoria's lockdown here. This topic of conversation can invoke strong feelings and be contentious, any posts (whether here or in rants and debate) will be expected to adhere to the forum rules, especially our first one of respect.Sorry. Turin, you want to shift to the other thread?
Let's get replies here back to just being about the impact of covid-19 on education
Questions for those who are going to school currently.Firstly, it’s very difficult to maintain perfect social distancing in a school environment. I’m not trying to defend anyone’s actions, but it’s just the truth. I can’t speak for others, but at my school we have a whole bunch of cleaners who just clean for the entire day while we are at school. They wipe down the lockers, doors and door handles, the microwave/sink stations and tables for the entire day, while we’re in classes and at recess/lunch. We also have billions of hand sanitiser bottles and installed automatic dispensers with hand sanitiser, and I can happily say everyone sanitises their hands very often (or most, at least). We also have made all the stairs one way to reduce congestion and made a lot of walking paths in the buildings one way. Everything I’ve just said wasn’t specific to the second wave though, we were doing all this before too. We do socially distance during lunch and recess but it’s probably ineffective as there are a handful of individuals who forget to social distance every time. We have teachers coming around to remind us, though. So yeah, social distancing measures are in place during recess and lunch, but they aren’t really in place during class. During class we still sit next to one another, except the tables are all separated (still 2 on a table though, looks pretty old school haha). That’s about all we have, but I’m not sure what else can be done. We can’t have only 1 student at each table because we don’t have enough tables for that and classrooms aren’t big enough to have only 1 student at a table. Obviously we don’t have any large gathering things, all assemblies and stuff are online and we have to attend from our classrooms.
What sort of interventions are in place at school to prevent the spread of the virus. I know schools have temperature checks in the morning but for asymptomatic individuals what other changes are in place. How often are classrooms getting cleaned? How close are students normally? What goes on during recess and lunch time? How often are students not following the rules?
Questions for those who are going to school currently.
What sort of interventions are in place at school to prevent the spread of the virus. I know schools have temperature checks in the morning but for asymptomatic individuals what other changes are in place. How often are classrooms getting cleaned? How close are students normally? What goes on during recess and lunch time? How often are students not following the rules?
Am I the only year 12 who's staying home during the second wave? With various respiratory issues and a (non-COVID) cough at the moment, I decided it was better to stay at home, and anticipated being not the only one in a couple of days, yet I'm the only one at my school, which is a bit disadvantaging. Is there anyone else??I imagine you're not the only one staying at home - there would be quite a few year 12s who have medical conditions or other reasons that require them to stay at home. In the end, the most important thing is that you look after your own health.
I hope your school is giving you all the support you need!My school is actually very supportive, it's not nearly as easy though to learn from home and whatever. They're doing their best, but still. Remote learning. Isn't easy. Also, does not help with procrastination....
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-snip-Thanks for these responses. Seems like everyone is making a heap of changes which is great but it is always going to be very difficult to regulate in a school environment.
Thanks for these responses. Seems like everyone is making a heap of changes which is great but it is always going to be very difficult to regulate in a school environment.Assuming the school hasn't tightened any since I went online a couple of weeks back, my school was kinda being different - they were specifically doing it so that one class was in the same classroom all day as far as poss. Hand sanitiser we had, also told that if we wanted to we could not use our lockers (people ignored that completely) and got told that if we didn't socially distance in the year 12 common room, it'd be shut up for the time being (which people didn't want). There was a lot of cleaning too, and obv. hand sanitiser before each class (well, most of them anyway), and cleaning desks each day/time you have a new class, and we all had to keep to the same desks.
Using all the classrooms and changing timetables was also something that I was thinking of in order to decrease the number of times students have to be within the same classroom in the same day. Having no lockers for some is also a great idea because I know in a lot of schools those areas tend to be the most congested and it would be difficult not to bump into someone else.
Using all the classrooms and changing timetables was also something that I was thinking of in order to decrease the number of times students have to be within the same classroom in the same day. Having no lockers for some is also a great idea because I know in a lot of schools those areas tend to be the most congested and it would be difficult not to bump into someone else.I'm quite forgetful. I forgot to say that we're doing this too haha. Our timetables have been changed so that many of our study periods are the end of the day, allowing year 12s, 11s and 10s to go home early to minimise the number of kids at school. The afternoons are half-empty as a result.
MS Teams? What is that?
? What is that?Microsoft Teams. AKA the best online learning platform in the entire world. You cannot argue with me. ;D
What sort of interventions are in place at school to prevent the spread of the virus. I know schools have temperature checks in the morning but for asymptomatic individuals what other changes are in place. How often are classrooms getting cleaned? How close are students normally? What goes on during recess and lunch time? How often are students not following the rules?Here is a typical "school routine"
That is very big number of schools closing down in Victoria, hope y'all are safe and keep studying hard at home on Microsoft Teams, the greatest school based learning at home system.Is this an ad or something? If not, it sure looks like it.Microsoft Teams, the greatest school based learning at home system.
Just wanted to come and say that AN is here for you all and we'll do our best to support you and help you with your education during these tough times! <3
-snip-Post this on the other COVID-19 thread
Any thoughts on this?I feel stressed. Feel like saying goodbye to my ATAR lol. I absolutely hate remote learning because I don't learn at all, but I hope that as a result of these restrictions community transmission/spread of the virus can be minimised as much as possible. I mean, at least we don't need to wear masks for 5-6 hours a day anymore since we'll be stuck at home? Haha. It really wasn't a matter of if we would have stage 4 restrictions, it was a matter of when, and at least they're doing it now rather than later. I'm not really fussed about the curfew/exercise/travel restrictions because me/my family were already subconsciously following those, but I wonder what it'll be like if you live in a suburb where some essentials are over 5km away (if they exist?).
I feel stressed. Feel like saying goodbye to my ATAR lol. I absolutely hate remote learning because I don't learn at all, but I hope that as a result of these restrictions community transmission/spread of the virus can be minimised as much as possible. I mean, at least we don't need to wear masks for 5-6 hours a day anymore since we'll be stuck at home? Haha. It really wasn't a matter of if we would have stage 4 restrictions, it was a matter of when, and at least they're doing it now rather than later. I'm not really fussed about the curfew/exercise/travel restrictions because me/my family were already subconsciously following those, but I wonder what it'll be like if you live in a suburb where some essentials are over 5km away (if they exist?).
I can only imagine what small businesses and the like would be going through - my thoughts go out to them. I feel horrible 'complaining' about the situation since many have it way, way worse than me, but the fact is that remote learning sucks for me and I have no idea how I'm going to keep on top of everything. I'm just expressing my personal concerns, they're very minor in the grand scheme of things because being in year 12 isn't of significance compared to what everyone else in the state/country/world is going through. Pretty much my only concern is from my standpoint as a year 12 as I worry about the future/getting into uni/how the hell will I ever be able to get a decent ATAR anymore. Especially the whole thing with online SACs - doing validation tasks back at school for them is stressful too and it's almost impossible to monitor things like cheating. Also worried they will push SACs back, making them closer to exam time.
Overall I'm glad they imposed the restrictions. Can't help feeling stressed though.
What? The GAT's no longer on the 9th of September?https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-02/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid19-latest-victoria/12515596
The GAT, or General Achievement Test for year 12 students, will be moved from the end of term three to the start of term four.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-02/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid19-latest-victoria/12515596
Here you go.
I feel stressed. Feel like saying goodbye to my ATAR lol. I absolutely hate remote learning because I don't learn at all, but I hope that as a result of these restrictions community transmission/spread of the virus can be minimised as much as possible. I mean, at least we don't need to wear masks for 5-6 hours a day anymore since we'll be stuck at home? Haha. It really wasn't a matter of if we would have stage 4 restrictions, it was a matter of when, and at least they're doing it now rather than later. I'm not really fussed about the curfew/exercise/travel restrictions because me/my family were already subconsciously following those, but I wonder what it'll be like if you live in a suburb where some essentials are over 5km away (if they exist?).You're definitely allowed to be stressed, upset and disappointed about this - we all have emotions and we are all affected by this!
I can only imagine what small businesses and the like would be going through - my thoughts go out to them. I feel horrible 'complaining' about the situation since many have it way, way worse than me, but the fact is that remote learning sucks for me and I have no idea how I'm going to keep on top of everything. I'm just expressing my personal concerns, they're very minor in the grand scheme of things because being in year 12 isn't of significance compared to what everyone else in the state/country/world is going through. Pretty much my only concern is from my standpoint as a year 12 as I worry about the future/getting into uni/how the hell will I ever be able to get a decent ATAR anymore. Especially the whole thing with online SACs - doing validation tasks back at school for them is stressful too and it's almost impossible to monitor things like cheating. Also worried they will push SACs back, making them closer to exam time.
Overall I'm glad they imposed the restrictions. Can't help feeling stressed though.
I think this was definitely a necessary step to take, and I actually liked remote learning considering it saves me around 90 minutes of travel time each day and the need to wake up to a cold morning. My school implemented remote learning relatively decently, and I've always been the type of person to get things done independently rather than needing to rely on others.Same! I mean for me it was around two, two and a half hours all told between morning and afternoon.
I am a little worried about the GAT not having a set date but it is good that exams are still in place.My school told me that the GAT is 10th of October, hopefully this is accurate and can ease your worries :)
I can only imagine what small businesses and the like would be going through - my thoughts go out to them. I feel horrible 'complaining' about the situation since many have it way, way worse than me, but the fact is that remote learning sucks for me and I have no idea how I'm going to keep on top of everything. I'm just expressing my personal concerns, they're very minor in the grand scheme of things because being in year 12 isn't of significance compared to what everyone else in the state/country/world is going through.
Obviously all the changes are necessary and I support them. There really wasn't any other option but to tighten restrictions.
Unfortunately, I feel this may also further widen the gap between those in low and high SES in terms of VCE. Hopefully, we see some announcements with regards to resources to help students with online learning.
Last Day Update: I was expecting today (Monday) to be our last day on campus however my private school is still running on campus learning tomorrow as we are already prepared for online learning. I was prepared for today to be our last day however I am happy that I can see my friends for another day :)One class of mine is having class tomorrow, tho' I don't think the rest are.
I wonder if any other independant/catholic schools are doing this?
Nothing else changed (at this point at least) for VCE dates and so forth?Nup, exams are the same dates. GAT is, as Arty said, on the 7th of October :)
James Merlino just announced that each student will be individually assessed in regards to the effects of COVID-19. Additionally, an extra $28,500,000 has been allocated to Mental Health resources in schools.
"I'm constantly asked about this and constantly being raised concerns from our students and from our schools. This year is like no other, it is an unprecedented year and we need to support our students in an unprecedented way.
"This year we're going to do things very, very differently. What we're announcing today is that every single VCE student will be individually assessed and any adverse impacts from COVID-19 will be reflected in their ATAR ranking.
"This is quite an extraordinary change. So every single student will be individually assessed. We'll look at things such as school closures, we'll look at things such as long absences. We'll look at things, for example, such as significant increase in family responsibilities as a result of COVID-19 and we'll of course consider the mental health and wellbeing of students during this period.
"So all of those factors will be considered. So now, students will go into their VCE exams with the confidence knowing that they will not be disadvantaged as a result of COVID-19.
"They'll go into their exams knowing that their final scores and their ATAR ranking will be a fair reflection of their year, and they will not be disadvantaged as a result of COVID-19.
"This is a way that we can give every student and every parent of a VCE student the comfort and the confidence that their student will receive their final scores that take into account their individual circumstances. It puts them on a level playing field with every student across the state."
My question is, "what does this mean?"I'm not too sure, quite broad. I took it in the way that there is more special consideration, depending on school closures, absences, family pressures and other similar things.
"It'll be individually assessed. Every student is different. We'll work it out at a variety of ways.
"For example, at a school level, for each student, schools will be asked to rank where they expect that student to be right now.
"But they'll also be asked to rank their students if it were not for COVID-19. So both a ranking of where they are at now and where they would have been had it not been for COVID-19 and why.
"Then we'll get all that data from across the state. So we'll have a standardised adjustment. So whether it's a long-term closure, we'll have a standardised way to assess the scores and that will be reflected in the ATAR.
"We'll look at the impact prior to COVID. We'll look at the general achievement test for term 4 and most importantly their VCE exams. But at school level and an individual student level we're looking at and asking teachers where do you rank your students right now and where would they have been had it not been for COVID-19, and why.
"That's why the message to every single student is that, 'You will be individually assessed. You will be at no disadvantage when you step into the VCE exams at the end of the year.'"
So this is how that will work:
Teachers will be asked where they rank their students now and where they would have ranked them if it was not for COVID-19.This is never going to be done well for everyone. Obviously those with a strong relationship with their teachers will benefit quite a bit.
It seems like they are selling it as a win-win for everyone when in reality given the way VCE is set up it really can't be.I 100% agree. I personally think it's ridiculous to suggest that teachers can move people's ranks around based on their perceived impact of COVID-19 on individual students. It's ironic that every time they introduce something that is supposed to "alleviate the stress" of students or to "ensure that no one will be disadvantaged", it immediately makes me feel more stressed because we are now leaving things up to subjective judgement by teachers rather than consistency across the state. That said, I think one of the reasons why they can present it as a win-win is that, barring a massive turning point in the global vaccine hunt, the COVID-19 situation is going to completely block international students from coming to Australian universities next year, leaving heaps of places for domestic students, as long as they meet minimum entry requirements.
They say students will be "individually assessed" quite a bit which I think can be a bit misleading if someone is just reading headlines. I think it is good that they are looking at each student's individual circumstances and how the pandemic has impacted everyone but in the end, everyone still gets an ATAR which compares each student against the rest of the state.
The biggest problem with the changes imo are the following:This is never going to be done well for everyone. Obviously those with a strong relationship with their teachers will benefit quite a bit.
From this, those students who adapted well and possibly outperformed what their teacher's expectations were at the start of the year may be disadvantaged, same goes for those students who maybe didn't do too well in year 11 but focused in for year 12 thus exceeding expectations.
That said, I think one of the reasons why they can present it as a win-win is that, barring a massive turning point in the global vaccine hunt, the COVID-19 situation is going to completely block international students from coming to Australian universities next year, leaving heaps of places for domestic students, as long as they meet minimum entry requirements.
Would this affect non-year 12 students studying a 3/4 subject this year?I'm in the exact same boat. I am under the impression that it will, as for each subject you are ranked against your cohort, while the ATAR is a rank of aggregates.
From this, those students who adapted well and possibly outperformed what their teacher's expectations were at the start of the year may be disadvantaged, same goes for those students who maybe didn't do too well in year 11 but focused in for year 12 thus exceeding expectations.I was thinking that! I've outperformed it seems, so disadvantages :'(
I'm a little confused.. how are students who have outperformed and exceeded expectations possibly disadvantaged?
So then what happens for the people who already needed special consideration? Who therefore talked to teachers last year saying, This is what I'm gonna be like next year? Who therefore the teachers already expect not to do as well? The ones where the teacher handed back a decent grade saying that they were very pleasurably surprised by the mark? Teachers who maybe still think of these kids as coasters this year from circumstances outside their control?
I 100% agree. I personally think it's ridiculous to suggest that teachers can move people's ranks around based on their perceived impact of COVID-19 on individual students. It's ironic that every time they introduce something that is supposed to "alleviate the stress" of students or to "ensure that no one will be disadvantaged", it immediately makes me feel more stressed because we are now leaving things up to subjective judgement by teachers rather than consistency across the state. That said, I think one of the reasons why they can present it as a win-win is that, barring a massive turning point in the global vaccine hunt, the COVID-19 situation is going to completely block international students from coming to Australian universities next year, leaving heaps of places for domestic students, as long as they meet minimum entry requirements.
Perhaps the same schools that are more disadvantaged due to poorer online teaching and systems will also have teachers less able to write convincing justifications.
I know *nothing* about this, but I imagine the number of places in each course are based partly on projected employment needs in different industries. International students may be given extra places because they're more likely to seek employment in other countries and not overburden our workforce (and make things cheaper for the govt as they pay full fee!) But no idea.
Cancelling exams is a horrible idea imo. Exams are the only properly standardised way of assessing each individual's knowledge/skills that contributes to the final study score. Right now, SACs are messy, all over the place, and done in vastly different ways in different schools. I don't understand why people want to cancel exams, currently it's our only hope. And it doesn't mean everyone is "special", because different people are disadvantaged to varying degrees atm. However, the whole teachers ranking students thing isn't a good idea either, I agree they should be using other objective things. And how will they measure how much each student has been affected? Things like effects on mental health, increased responsibilities leading to inability to focus on schoolwork, etc are almost impossible to measure accurately. I understand where they are coming from but in the end there's only so much they will do, and the disparity they are so desperately attempting to address will still exist to some degree.I completely agree! I think that exams need to go ahead in order for this year to be as fair as possible. Without exams, there is NO consistency. As well with the special consideration, I feel that it is quite tough to measure the affects but it is nice knowing that they were trying to level out the playing field. I don't love the idea of teacher rankings either as it could be a bit subjective however it could make be a backup for odd SAC results?
Also with year 11 results being used, I think this is a terrible idea because some people use year 11 as there trial year for subjects, study techniques, etc. I for one did not do general maths 1/2 but am doing further maths 3/4, and my 1/2 subjects are a little bit over the place to be used for my 3/4 results.
Considering that ATAR is just a ranking anyways, if everyone is 'special' then wouldn't that mean no one is special.
I'm particularly doubtful about teachers ranking their students based on what they think they would be ---> which is really subjective. I was hoping that they could consider other more objective things like how people performed in year 11.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: I just don't think it makes sense for your year 12 teachers to predict where you would be, as they have barely seen your real potentials without the influence of covid. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to consider year 11 results or opinions from your year 11 teachers?
Cancelling exams is a horrible idea imo. Exams are the only properly standardised way of assessing each individual's knowledge/skills that contributes to the final study score.
Right now, SACs are messy, all over the place, and done in vastly different ways in different schools. I don't understand why people want to cancel exams, currently it's our only hope. And it doesn't mean everyone is "special", because different people are disadvantaged to varying degrees atm. However, the whole teachers ranking students thing isn't a good idea either, I agree they should be using other objective things. And how will they measure how much each student has been affected? Things like effects on mental health, increased responsibilities leading to inability to focus on schoolwork, etc are almost impossible to measure accurately. I understand where they are coming from but in the end there's only so much they will do, and the disparity they are so desperately attempting to address will still exist to some degree.
Unpopular viewpoint: As unjust as this may be, that's just how many things work in our rigged society. These amendments remind students that the first step is as important as the last.
The foundations our social system was built on.. In ways we fail to accept deep down, what we really are as a society.
Unpopular viewpoint: As unjust as this may be, that's just how many things work in our rigged society. These amendments remind students that the first step is as important as the last.I don't like the idea but I kind of agree. Myself, I can't even remember a lot of my year 11 results... so I don't know, if they use that, if that's good or not. I guess if the worst comes to the worst we can all rely on the GAT, if it happens?
The foundations our social system was built on.. In ways we fail to accept deep down, what we really are as a society.
Spoken like a true anarchist? Tbh I'm entirely confused by what your point is.
I'm taking that as a compliment. Thank you, you couldn't put it any better, like a true anarchist. Had to phrase my point like that, as to avoid any conflicts.
To translate my point a little: How VCE has ended up being for Year 12 this year is similar to how things are in the 'real world', if students have yet experienced or grasped how it really is or what it truly represents.
Hope this assists a little bit with the interpretation of my initial viewpoint. I would like to not decipher it further, for the sake of not going beyond moderate controversy.
And that final line? Look, I mean no offence - but you sound like a toddler that just discovered pot. Potentially you can be less vague and more constructive in conversation? What are we "really" as a society?Dude, you can't just put "no offence" in front of an insult and expect it to be unoffensive. Let's keep the conversation respectful on all sides, please. :)
To translate my point a little: How VCE has ended up being for Year 12 this year is similar to how things are in the 'real world', if students have yet experienced or grasped how it really is or what it truly represents.This pandemic and the way it has affected our society is unprecedented. Nobody alive today has been through anything like this; not just in reference to a full global pandemic, but one in the midst of rapid technological and scientific advancement. To say that Year 12 students this year are experiencing the "real world" is true in some sense; but it's also a fallacy. Year 12 is a period of transition, and at the moment, that movement - along with the rest of the world's progression - is being wildly interrupted. There's no VCE student this year that isn't fully aware of the impact this virus has had on our lives. Year 12 is part of the "real world". The struggles you're facing in education and the decision to cut exams are real. But it's not normal, and certainly not an experience that any of us graduates had to deal with. Our "real world" was very, very different to yours, and by no one's fault. No government, no society, no conspiracy. Just an extremely transmittable virus.
I don't like the idea but I kind of agree. Myself, I can't even remember a lot of my year 11 results... so I don't know, if they use that, if that's good or not. I guess if the worst comes to the worst we can all rely on the GAT, if it happens?It's an unfortunate place to be in and I really, really feel for you guys. Standardised tests are a flawed tool useful only to those more academically-minded whilst ignoring those with more practical skills and understanding, but they're what people are used to - even if they can't be judged as an accurate representation of a student's abilities this year. Basing grades on Year 11 results is also an awful idea, considering the huge variation in attitudes and zero consideration for how students have changed this year. It's a rock and a hard place.
Dude, you can't just put "no offence" in front of an insult and expect it to be unoffensive. Let's keep the conversation respectful on all sides, please. :)
Interesting argument since research suggests that standardised tests are a poor method for testing a person's abilityThe VCE/ATAR system of having standardised exams will not change for a long while, despite it being flawed. I'm not saying standardised tests are the best way to go but it has, for as long as I know, always been this way. It will continue to be this way. To clarify what I meant - I'm saying that our scheduled end of year exams are the best way forward to ensure that our study scores turn out somewhat fair/comparable. Resorting to only SAC scores and the GAT/year 11 results will be disastrous for many. They can't just abolish the system three quarters into the year and say 'scrap exams, we're going to do X instead' because standardised tests are inherently flawed.
The VCE/ATAR system of having standardised exams will not change for a long while, despite it being flawed. I'm not saying standardised tests are the best way to go but it has, for as long as I know, always been this way. It will continue to be this way. To clarify what I meant - I'm saying that our scheduled end of year exams are the best way forward to ensure that our study scores turn out somewhat fair/comparable. Resorting to only SAC scores and the GAT/year 11 results will be disastrous for many. They can't just abolish the system three quarters into the year and say 'scrap exams, we're going to do X instead' because standardised tests are inherently flawed.
And that final line? Look, I mean no offence - but you sound like a toddler that just discovered pot. Potentially you can be less vague and more constructive in conversation? What are we "really" as a society?
Our "real world" was very, very different to yours, and by no one's fault. No government, no society, no conspiracy. Just an extremely transmittable virus.
Well am I trying to discriminate anyone? I appreciate your honesty (and I affirm that putting 'no offence' does signify this honesty) and I will still be vague sadly, since if I weren't I would probably disturb some (yes still being vague here). I'm judging you? No (pretty clear I am not judging any specific person if you look back on it). I don't want to be mean, but it seems that you're the only one that's making judgements on the individual, and I feel you shouldn't let this fire of yours damage you also. To summarise, just take my lines with a grain of salt.
Our education minister has just said that not only will our ATARs be moderated, but also our study scores. They've created a new category of educational disadvantage that is supposed to take everything into consideration and 'level the playing field', and the GAT will be used to help determine our level of achievement and will play a part in this moderation. How does everyone feel about this?
Our education minister has just said that not only will our ATARs be moderated, but also our study scores. They've created a new category of educational disadvantage that is supposed to take everything into consideration and 'level the playing field', and the GAT will be used to help determine our level of achievement and will play a part in this moderation. How does everyone feel about this?if it levels the playing field why haven't they done it before? I feel like a lot of the changes assume that VCE before the pandemic was a level playing field.
Our education minister has just said that not only will our ATARs be moderated, but also our study scores. They've created a new category of educational disadvantage that is supposed to take everything into consideration and 'level the playing field', and the GAT will be used to help determine our level of achievement and will play a part in this moderation. How does everyone feel about this?We simply don't have enough information yet; just so long as I get the marks I need (and would expect to be able to get) and it ends up pretty fair, I don't mind how they do it. Yes, using the GAT is a good idea, I think. When did this information come out/where?
Sorry - I didn't mean to imply you were being discriminatory OR judging of others, meant more that you should feel open to discussion without fear of either of those things happening. Hell, you're being so vague about everything I think it's basically impossible to even feel judged by you atm 😂 Was just hoping to get your actual thoughts on the table so we could have a discussion
think we can all have an open discussion about these things without judging each other?
We simply don't have enough information yet; just so long as I get the marks I need (and would expect to be able to get) and it ends up pretty fair, I don't mind how they do it. Yes, using the GAT is a good idea, I think. When did this information come out/where?It was sent to schools and directed towards year 12 students. There was also a video with James Merlino talking about it, also sent to schools.
How's everyone feeling about the new VCE Unit 4 SAC protocols? :)What do you mean? I don't see any 'new VCE Unit 4 SAC protocols'...? Although I may have misunderstood something.
More info here.
What do you mean? I don't see any 'new VCE Unit 4 SAC protocols'...? Although I may have misunderstood something.Basically, students are allowed to leave their premises to undertake essential assessment (i.e. Unit 4 SACs).
1) How important do you think the GAT is this year? Is there any way to prepare for it if it is substantially more important this year as compared to other years?1) It will be important to do well on the GAT, however I still firmly believe you shouldn't be spending a substantial amount of time preparing or stressing yourself out about it. It's not going to play a major part in study score calculation as of now - it will be a factor to moderate scores and compare scores/assessments between schools but isn't going to actually count towards the final study score (as of now).
2) Do you guys reckon the class of '21 will have to deal with this as well?Spoiler3) Anyone else feel like this new system is rigged? Like honestly...just add another section onto SEAS about impact due to COVID that doesn't rely on teachers so much subjectively assuming how a student would have done without coronavirus.
Just wondering:1. GAT will be monstrously more important this year. The GAT is designed fairly well in that it tests a set of skills, not a set of knowledge - the best way to prepare for it is by practicing those skills. Do some practice GAT essays and ask your teacher to mark them (if they're willing - I was lucky in that my high school English teacher used to be a GAT assessor, and was more than happy to mark practice GAT essays for us), then go through the multiple choice questions and answer them all as well as you can. Realise which of the three sections you're doing best at, and which you need to work on - but also consider which of those areas you need to do well on. The essay section is going to be important since everyone has to do an English, but if outside of that all that you study is maths and science, don't worry too much about doing poorly on the humanities section.
1) How important do you think the GAT is this year? Is there any way to prepare for it if it is substantially more important this year as compared to other years?
2) Do you guys reckon the class of '21 will have to deal with this as well?Spoiler3) Anyone else feel like this new system is rigged? Like honestly...just add another section onto SEAS about impact due to COVID that doesn't rely on teachers so much subjectively assuming how a student would have done without coronavirus.
re people feeling sorry for Dan Andrews (don't think it was on this thread but still): yeah I definitely agree, first came the bushfires, then coronavirus, what next?
Thanks for your insight whys and keltingmeith! :)Hi! I'm not 100% sure on this so take it with a grain of salt. As languages does not directly correlate with any of the sections, I'd say the writing tasks. However, I strongly believe that you should strive to do well on ALL of the sections, as no one really knows how the GAT is going to be used this year. With small cohorts, the achievements of individuals have a bigger effect overall, but this year I think they'll assess GAT results individually.
If I'm just a Yr 11 student this year and doing a LOTE 3/4, what section of the GAT do you reckon I should do well on? Also how would I be impacted if I have a small cohort (12 people)?
I'm so worried about the GAT. I did horrendous last year and thinking about what would have happened if they used my GAT for my study score just gives me nightmares. I know that they need it for moderation this year but still not a fan that it's important. Because I do all science and maths, should I put less effort into the arts/hums part of the GAT or is it still important for me to perform well in them?Don't forget the English subject.
Does anyone know/think we will be starting face-to-face learning in the last week of this term, as the 6 week lockdown ends before then? Just curious if I've missed something as our teachers are positive that we will be starting.
If that does happen, I beg everyone to p l e a s e keep their mask on as much as possible :)Would this include people who can't wear a mask for medical reasons? Or would we be forced to stay at home if we don't keep our masks on?
Would this include people who can't wear a mask for medical reasons? Or would we be forced to stay at home if we don't keep our masks on?I feel like this is a question that no-one on AN can answer, probably not even most people in government could answer it. What will happen in the next few weeks/months is very uncertain.
I feel like this is a question that no-one on AN can answer, probably not even most people in government could answer it. What will happen in the next few weeks/months is very uncertain.Thanks for the tip! I also have asthma, but since that's combined with 66% lung capacity, I can't wear a mask for the whole day - I find fifteen minutes on the train exhausting enough. Maybe I'll try the surgical masks sometime (I guess I'll have to at some point, given I want to be a nurse...?)
As an aside (purely anecdotal and obviously I would have different circumstances to you, but thought I'd say it in case it helps), I have asthma and heart issues and have found using proper surgical masks over homemade/cloth masks much better. After you adjust to using them they're fine, it can just take a bit of practice to get used to wearing them. Surgical masks have been worn by doctors for years and statistically speaking there's going to be surgeons with severe asthma who have to wear surgical masks for long periods of time in theatre - they have to be safe to use.
Thanks for the tip! I also have asthma, but since that's combined with 66% lung capacity, I can't wear a mask for the whole day - I find fifteen minutes on the train exhausting enough. Maybe I'll try the surgical masks sometime (I guess I'll have to at some point, given I want to be a nurse...?)Definitely try a surgical mask, my mum has one lung and can wear it for the entire 8 hour day at work and it's fine :)
Don't want to derail from education further, but adding to the above, surgical masks are also better at droplet control so better for you if you are in a compromised health state :)
Back on education - honestly my year hasn't been affected *too* much but was announced today our end of year conference where we present our research project will be over zoom and our final exam will also be online. I guess I'm not that surprised but I just hadn't really thought about how things will happen in the months to come!
Don't want to derail from education further, but adding to the above, surgical masks are also better at droplet control so better for you if you are in a compromised health state :)I am in a pretty good state with my education, my school has been very good with remote learning and I don't think that my marks have changed in any way. I really think I am on track to meet my study score goals and at the end of the day I don't think that COVID has significantly affected my education. I have felt a bit more demotivated and tired during quarantine but I know that is normal. There have been not as many co-curricular activities which is sad for me but some have been moved remotely. My mental health has not been as good as normal but I am taking time for myself and being kinder on myself. I try to keep up with my friends as much as possible and walking in nature. I am perfectly okay but as always my mood can go up and down.
Back on education - honestly my year hasn't been affected *too* much but was announced today our end of year conference where we present our research project will be over zoom and our final exam will also be online. I guess I'm not that surprised but I just hadn't really thought about how things will happen in the months to come!
Same - I was meant to have a camp-like intensive at the end of the year that's been cut in half, with the first half being entirely virtual, which kinda sucks for several reasons (one of them being my inability to pay rent since I apparently won't be able to work during it...). But oh well, we've all got to make sacrificesI honestly don't hate this online format, they're gonna split us up into relevant subgroups to then present whereas I think if it was in person, we would have had to do it in front of the whole cohort/most of the cohort. Feels a lot less daunting because I won't have to get up in front of heaps of people haha. In the same respect though, doing a big presentation would have been cool given its been a big project that took us a good 6 months.
I am in a pretty good state with my education, my school has been very good with remote learning and I don't think that my marks have changed in any way. I really think I am on track to meet my study score goals and at the end of the day I don't think that COVID has significantly affected my education. I have felt a bit more demotivated and tired during quarantine but I know that is normal. There have been not as many co-curricular activities which is sad for me but some have been moved remotely. My mental health has not been as good as normal but I am taking time for myself and being kinder on myself. I try to keep up with my friends as much as possible and walking in nature. I am perfectly okay but as always my mood can go up and down.This is so good to hear! Great that you're being kind to yourself too. What co-curricular activities were you involved in prior to COVID? When I was at school I was pretty much solely in sport co-curriculars so that wouldn't have worked well with moving online haha.
Basically, I feel fortunate enough to feel as though my education hasn't been affected and I feel safe and content :) :)
This is so good to hear! Great that you're being kind to yourself too. What co-curricular activities were you involved in prior to COVID? When I was at school I was pretty much solely in sport co-curriculars so that wouldn't have worked well with moving online haha.I’m involved in a lot of things! Mainly involved in sport, I participated in diving and netball twice a week outside of school and in school I did 2 sports most terms which would take up 2 morning and 1 night a week :) I am also really involved in house events. Remotely we have had cross country and diving, and right now we are doing music, dance and drama online. I somehow signed up for all three!! For music we have done audio and video, drama is an audio play and dance has been postponed until next term. I also did lots of service activities at school haha. I was very involved but I loved it and adored school for both this and the social aspect.
I am in a pretty good state with my education, my school has been very good with remote learning and I don't think that my marks have changed in any way.This is great Eloise! I feel pretty similar and as much as confinement sucks, I haven’t been significantly disadvantaged by COVID from an education perspective. I mean, I really miss my extracurricular activities and my friends but so does everyone else. Honestly I think it’s really important to be grateful for what I do have and that I’m still receiving a high quality education during a global pandemic.
This is slightly off this topic, but is any school making them do a practice GAT. Because it may be worth more this year, we are doing a practice in the first week of the holidays and actually getting a VCAA GAT marker to mark them and give us feedback before our test :)Yeah we are doing one next week online and then our writing pieces will be externally marked as well.