Everyday sexism towards women

[huehue]

Just out of curiously, what are some everyday sexist things women face? Just wondering since being guy I usually don't experience sexism to the same degree as women.

[HopefulLawStudent]

I disagree; I think sexism is a thing both genders face to a similar degree.

[meganrobyn]

Sexism as a social phenomena isn't actually something that is a 'men' issue, because the idea is that a dominant group (sex, race, etc) exercises power over a subordinate group on the basis of that specific characteristic. In a society based on a patriarchal hierarchy, individual men can certainly and absolutely feel poorly treated because of their sex, but sexism against men isn't a 'thing' per se as a social/structural phenomenon.

I do, however, think that individual men are damaged by patriarchal structures and assumptions, too. For example, the expectation that they demonstrate a stereotyped form of 'strength' in all situations, discouraging them from demonstrating love, compassion, a sense of equality with others (especially women, gay men, etc), commitment to family, and so on.

But, since we're talking about the impact on women... there are just too many, and the older I get the more I realise it's happening and that it's a problem. I used to think it wasn't as much of an issue when I was younger, but I think a lot of the time the perception of sexism for younger women is harder to achieve because you don't always see the things happening (also, you're young, so sometimes you write it off as older people treating you with less respect because of that.... but then it doesn't stop when you get older!). I assume you know the major things, such as sexual violence domestic violence, rape in wartime, unequal pay for the same job, unequal opportunity to get jobs (particularly jobs with authority and power), etc? In more 'everyday' ways, it's things like the media treatment of women and women's bodies: women are popularly expected to be aesthetic objects, and preferably ones presented as young and fuck-worthy. And the number of speaking/3D parts given to women in books, movies, TV, radio, etc - not to mention the lack of acceptance of women writing, directing and producing the things. And just having people yell 'slut' or 'show us your tits' as they randomly drive past - which happens scarily frequently. Or the vitriol directed at women (far more than men) online, when they say something that is disapproved of. And did you see the majority of the comments about that woman being hired for The Footy Show? Or being at work and not being listened to in meetings, or even invited to all of them; and it being assumed that you need a man backing you up, or taking the lead, if it's a big job or an important or tough client. And I've not really heard men being talked about by women as being 'had' or 'fucked good' etc, or dumped the second they get them in bed - but it's sadly so common the other way around. And some of those guys are just genuinely fuckheads, but it's also the way they're taught to be by society. It's absolutely conditioning. And I recently had a baby - every single asshole and their dog had an opinion on the fact that I do not have my partner's surname, and that we chose to give the baby her OWN surname, and not automatically his or hyphenated. I was told I wasn't a real mother or I'd never damage my baby in that way. I was also told that I'd finally "trapped" him, and congratulated; he was sympathised with that he'd now lost the opportunity to be 'free'. Oh, and that I went to work 10 days after giving birth? So much criticism. But the father is congratulated for changing a nappy. And so on and so on.

I think individual people are often shit because they have a very narrow worldview and don't reflect on things in a big-picture-enough way to see the systemic problems - or don't care. But I also think it's more about broader social messages and structures that TEACH people how they're supposed to behave, and many of those are terrible bullshit. So it's not like everyone is simply an asshole. And it's also not like every man is awful and all women are great and victimised, because that is a gross simplification and false. But that doesn't stop the bigger picture from being *systemically* the way it is.

[ShortBlackChick]

Congratulations on the birth of your child! Thank you for doing one of the most hardest jobs on the planet, and for your contribution to society! (EDIT: A MALE told me this sounded sarcastic, just letting you know I truly meant my words!)

I think you're correct, maybe it does come with age, and perhaps experience too? As a *young* woman (I'm 22) I can say I havent directly been effected by sexism (besides my Grandma asking me when I'm getting married, but that's more cultural) but maybe I need to get out into the world more to see everyday sexism, or to even know how it's affecting me.

Clementine Ford, anyone? The number one example of a female being subject to verbal abuse online in Australia.

I think it has to do a lot with social and media conditioning too. Even within females we need to think about how we treat and judge each other. Like ok sure Kim K wants to bare her breasts for the world, good for her! Personally I wouldnt find that empowering but if she does, then good on her. She can do whatever she wants, I just don't care what she does. A lot of the hatred towards Rebecca Maddern being on the footy show was by females, I don't understand. Good on her. Why does the footy show have to be all males?

And what we expect from men. Like, personally there's nothing more empowering than opening that motherfucking heavy door myself and THEN holding it open for the dude walking in behind me. I really dont need any guy to open a door for me, but that's not to say I wouldnt be appreciative if ANYONE opened a door for me. But all those romcoms have taught us that a man isnt worth it unless they open the door for you, and push your chair in for you, and pay for your dinner and even propose. Fk that I do what I want.

[grindr]

In regards to the footy show issue, women who believed that Rebecca Maddern shouldn't be up for the job because she is a female are mainly a result of internalised sexism which is just really sad. In my opinion, a mindset such as that would be a result of growing up within society's cave of gender roles and the expectations and limits of how men and women should act and behave. The result; the undermining of women as people as well as predestined expectations for both genders.

I find that as the years go past this issue is slowly beginning to get better. But do you know whats sad? In many cultures and different countries there is still a strong sense of patriarchy instilled into everyday society, spreading from generation to generation. Things are changing, people are becoming frequently more aware of this, but with the majority of society blinded by this 'norm', changes are happening too slowly. In reality, the sad truth is that in my lifetime, I don't believe I will ever see equality of the sexes in regards with social, or economic status and that thought always lingers in my mind. But I do believe this will get better, albeit very slowly.

[elysepopplewell]

Hey there, here to add my 2 cents

It's important to realise, as mentioned above, that the way women are treated in each country is totalllllly different. I'll talk about a few things I notice.

These are all smaller microaggressions, but together they add to a culture of sexism.

1. Language. When people refer to "mankind" instead of "humankind" it discounts a woman's contribution or role in the human race. Have you also noticed that people say, "you're acting like a little bitch" or "you're being a pussy" when someone is chickening out of something? Bitch and pussy are gendered language, and they are used to liken a female connoted word to someone being weak or scared.

2. Double standards. You rarely hear a man be called a slut but you'll hear it far more used for women. Similarly, it is less regular to have a man's sexual promiscuity commented on than a woman's. I think this has long standing historical roots, particularly from conservative cultures.

3. Slut-Shaming. When a woman covers less of herself, she is considered as devaluing herself by a lot of people. You only need to look at Kim Kardashian's recent naked selfie to see everyone scream "WHY DON'T YOU HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR YOURSELF?" People were saying this when she posted a photo of herself with a g-string-like swim suit on, so you could see the majority of her bum. People were backlashing asking for her self respect. Justin Bieber has uploaded nude selfies too - total bum show. Very few people were curious to know where his self respect was. (Note: It is totally not just men asking where is the self respect, an ENORMOUS amount of women slut-shame each other).

4. Victim Blaming. Unfortunately, there's still a culture in Australia of claiming that a woman asked to be raped through her clothing, actions or words. No. Just, no. Similarly, there's an alarming amount of people who blame DV victims for being hurt.

5. Language Policing. My boyfriend swears every day, using fuck about 3 times a sentence. I used it once in front of his friends and they nearly choked, they couldn't believe a girl said fuck so openly. Now, finding it impolite that someone swears is personal, that's fine. But, no one blinks an eye when my partner does it, but it was an enormous deal when I did it. I've had plenty of people tell me from older generations, "It's just not proper for a girl to swear." *pulls collar nervously*

6. Stereotypes. "You run like a girl," for example. A lot of these derogatory stereotypes are being owned by the marginalised lately which is an awesome source of empowerment for many. But, it still shouldn't exist.

7. I won't go too far into it because I don't have the stats on hand, but there is a wage gap between genders. I know this is largely disputed, I'm not forcing it on anyone (until I have stats handy hehe).

As I said, these are all small things but they largely add up to the culture that meganrobyn referred to above. These are just a few examples. I'm also super passionate about the Free the Nipple campaign. It really annoys me that you type in "breast" into the tags on instagram and instagram blocks you from seeing past the top posts because it breaches guidelines. Then you type in "malenipple" and you've got uncensored, complete freedom to look at as many little pink circles of skin as you like. LOL. INEQUALITY. LOL.

Anyway, as meganrobyn said, I too think that men can be damaged by patriarchal societies! But, women, being the marginalised of the two main genders (everything I say here is ignorant of gender fluid people - not because I ignore them or degrade them, I'm totally open to everything they stand for - it's just for the purpose of keeping the conversation limited to what was originally asked )

[ayesha2011t]

Hey guys, as a young girl (16) still in school, I see sexism here and there. But what saddens me the most is that it is so instilled in everyone that they don't even realise they're being sexist.
For eg: I do computing which is a male-dominant subject. In class, we were designing a network for some random shop and in it a reception area was needed. My teacher constantly referred to the receptionist as a she, even after confrontation by my friend and I. This happened numerous times in the class by even a few male students and highlights how instilled sexism is from a young age. It annoyed me so much, it's so instilled in everyone (men and women) to believe that men can do scientific and the like occupations but women can only do admin things, why?

Just my 2 cents though. Hopefully, step by step, sexism is eradicated asap. 🏽

[Aaron]

I do computing which is a male-dominant subject.

I commend you for taking on a subject which is male-dominated in both subject and industry. Good on you, stick with it!

(end biased post)

[elysepopplewell]

Hey guys, as a young girl (16) still in school, I see sexism here and there. But what saddens me the most is that it is so instilled in everyone that they don't even realise they're being sexist.
For eg: I do computing which is a male-dominant subject. In class, we were designing a network for some random shop and in it a reception area was needed. My teacher constantly referred to the receptionist as a she, even after confrontation by my friend and I. This happened numerous times in the class by even a few male students and highlights how instilled sexism is from a young age. It annoyed me so much, it's so instilled in everyone (men and women) to believe that men can do scientific and the like occupations but women can only do admin things, why?

Just my 2 cents though. Hopefully, step by step, sexism is eradicated asap. 🏽

You're going to take on big things girl! Good luck to you!

[elysepopplewell]

In essence, she can dish it out but she can't take it, and as far as I'm aware, she's not representative of the broader feminist movement.

It's difficult to define the characteristics of the broader feminist movement. I admire Clementine Ford for the fact that she can "take it" contrary to what you've suggested.

It is also worth noting that Australia does not have ultimate free speech, exercising free speech in an insulting, degrading way is prohibited under various aspects of Australian law.

To me, the most outstanding work of Clementine Ford was when she stood up to Sunrise's claim that women are to blame for men sending their nude photos on beyond what was permissible according to the original sender. Sunrise said, "When will women learn?" as though it is a woman's fault that she took a photo of herself naked (completely legal when of age), sent it to a man she may trust (also legal), then for him to send it on to his friends or post it as revenge porn (completely illegal). Clemtine Ford's response was wonderful for the movement of culture towards not-slut-shaming. This alone sparked sexual degrading comments from people (can be easily found online).

Her strategy isn't how I would approach such personal attacks (but I can truthfully say I surely couldn't show the bravery she has). I admire that she alerted a particular man's boss about his disgusting remarks which ended in the termination of his employment. That sent an enormous, powerful message of a culture shift: using degrading language like "slut" won't be tolerated by company's who have a fair image to uphold. I don't think the most strategic approach is to cause fights with men. The men who see the daily sexism are the ones who can see the justification in Clementine's words. I think it is the ones who are frightened, offended, and angered by Clementine's words are the ones who actually need to hear the message. They just can't see beyond the way she's approaching it, so they can't see the very justified mission.

Clementine Ford is doing wonderful things for women, she's breaking new ground. But, to overcome perpetual patriarchal tones in society, we need a balanced approach. Ford is just one cog in a giant machine.

I think it has to do a lot with social and media conditioning too. Even within females we need to think about how we treat and judge each other. Like ok sure Kim K wants to bare her breasts for the world, good for her! Personally I wouldnt find that empowering but if she does, then good on her.

100% agree. Jealousy is out and support is in. Women's issues, like slut-shaming, don't just come from men. Women put other women down for not aligning with their own ideals!

[Seņor]

if you're posting such viscous/offensive things on social media (and she has every right to due to the doctrine of free speech), you can't then complain when people exercise their free speech and viscously insult you.

Theres a few acts that do not permit hateful speech. But theres not much one can do about it. One of the most common verdicts against the prosecutable is to try to force them to make an apology which is the best one can do. You cant jail someone for swearing right? 

But then again i agree with you. Its hard to take someone serious when all they do is vilify and scream obscenities. I believe that this person shouldnt really be role model for women's rights when there is so much controversy surrounding them. Its like admiring Donald Trump for trying to make America great again and being a great patriot, but in what ways is he doing that and are his actions/speech commendable?

[anna.xo]

Women put other women down for not aligning with their own ideals!

This, in my opinion, is the biggest problem we need to solve as a society if we want to eliminate a culture of sexism. I just think that if women, as a gender can't give each other the respect they deserve, there's a fair degree of hypocrisy in asking for men to treat us with respect.

[geminii]

I think sexism is experienced by both genders, and in some cases more so towards men (I'm a girl). I think as a society we have become so fixated on women empowerment, violence against women, and problems concerning women that we sometimes forget about men entirely. Sexist things that men face include people assuming that men don't cry, that men don't experience domestic violence, that men are somehow 'above' women and so should be 'brought down'.
I also think people misuse the term feminism as a way to disparage men, instead of using it as a means to create gender equality, for both men and women. Also, call me nitpicking, but the term feminism is slightly sexist in its own way - I honestly believe it should be 'humanism' or 'equalism' or something like that.
Seriously men experience so much sexism nowadays, just like women. Has anyone seen BuzzFeed's video, '36 Questions Women Have For Men'? Perfect examples right there.

[The Usual Student]

I think sexism is experienced by both genders, and in some cases more so towards men (I'm a girl). I think as a society we have become so fixated on women empowerment, violence against women, and problems concerning women that we sometimes forget about men entirely. Sexist things that men face include people assuming that men don't cry, that men don't experience domestic violence, that men are somehow 'above' women and so should be 'brought down'.
I also think people misuse the term feminism as a way to disparage men, instead of using it as a means to create gender equality, for both men and women. Also, call me nitpicking, but the term feminism is slightly sexist in its own way - I honestly believe it should be 'humanism' or 'equalism' or something like that.
Seriously men experience so much sexism nowadays, just like women. Has anyone seen BuzzFeed's video, '36 Questions Women Have For Men'? Perfect examples right there.

Fundamentally, gender stereotypes and roles ,built into the very core of our society, hurt both genders. I don't think it matters who is hurt "more" by these notions but all that matters is that they are detrimental and a threat to equality for everyone. Hence we must put an end to them.
That being said, if you adopt the view that we live in a patriarchal society ( which isn't very hard to justify but still a contentious idea subject to debate ) then there is a much stronger argument to engage with feminism rather then humanism or equalism, since the debate is operating in a world where women are systematically oppressed by men.With this in mind, it is far more rational to support a philosophy that empowers women as a means to reach equality. In contrast, humanism or equalism could still solve the issues at hand, albeit not as effectively. Personally, I employ a humanistic approach to equality like you mentioned but I wanted to mention the other side of the argument just so you can flesh out your opinion more.Alternatively, I suggest you google Christina Hoff Sommers for an antifeminist opinion and Chimamamndi Ngozi for a pro feminist argument.

In regards to the topic, I am not a girl but something I have seen in a lot of my female friends is a lack of confidence within themselves. I can't say this is true for ALL girls or even girls in general, but confidence ( in my opinion ) is the most important psychological quality someone can have. It enables independent thought, increased action and risk taking. If a particular group of people lack the confidence in themselves to succeed or venture into different pathways of life, then they will continue to waste their own potential which is a depressing thought.

[brenden]

I think sexism is experienced by both genders, and in some cases more so towards men (I'm a girl). I think as a society we have become so fixated on women empowerment, violence against women, and problems concerning women that we sometimes forget about men entirely. Sexist things that men face include people assuming that men don't cry, that men don't experience domestic violence, that men are somehow 'above' women and so should be 'brought down'.
I also think people misuse the term feminism as a way to disparage men, instead of using it as a means to create gender equality, for both men and women. Also, call me nitpicking, but the term feminism is slightly sexist in its own way - I honestly believe it should be 'humanism' or 'equalism' or something like that.
Seriously men experience so much sexism nowadays, just like women. Has anyone seen BuzzFeed's video, '36 Questions Women Have For Men'? Perfect examples right there.

I do, however, think that individual men are damaged by patriarchal structures and assumptions, too. For example, the expectation that they demonstrate a stereotyped form of 'strength' in all situations, discouraging them from demonstrating love, compassion, a sense of equality with others (especially women, gay men, etc), commitment to family, and so on.

ACE, thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion. I agree with some 'essence' of your post but perhaps disagree with the idea that men are experience 'sexism' - for the reasons already outlined by Meganrobyn in the spoiler below. This takes a more sophisticated definition of sexism than most people are wont to use, with many preferring to just use "sexism" as some sort of loose paraphrase for "difference of treatment between the genders"... but I think the latter definition becomes problematic (perhaps a discussion for another time).

Spoiler

Sexism as a social phenomena isn't actually something that is a 'men' issue, because the idea is that a dominant group (sex, race, etc) exercises power over a subordinate group on the basis of that specific characteristic. In a society based on a patriarchal hierarchy, individual men can certainly and absolutely feel poorly treated because of their sex, but sexism against men isn't a 'thing' per se as a social/structural phenomenon.

But it's absolutely right to say that men are impact by gender (and absolutely wrong to say that the broader feminist movement is bad for men), so in terms of 'forgetting about men entirely', I don't think it's possible. For one, society is structured in a way that it's literally impossible to forget about men (take a look at our House of Representatives), and secondly, feminism is a battle against oppressive and wrong social/historical ideas about gender - inclusive of gender norms, gender perceptions, whatever you want. So if men are being negatively impacted by gender norms and feminism fights gender norms, then feminism is doing a good thing for men.

Humanism/equalism are just inappropriate words because they don't - in any way, shape, or form - do anything meaningful other than escape 'fem'. I understand that people are intimidated by adopting the label of feminist, particularly given the backlash potentially received and the association then made with people whose views we might not agree with, but the word feminist is 'feminist' and not 'equalist' for a reason, and that's because if you want to be an equalist then you have to focus on the groups that have been fucking stepped on by socially powerful groups for millennia. I have friends that say they're an equalist - because God, the word sounds nice, doesn't it - but what does it say? "I want equality". That's awesome. What it doesn't say is "I recognise that there are gross inequalities".

So yeah, feminism has a (pretty fucking obvious) distinct focus and historical tradition rooting for the better treatment of women that's imbued within the definition and sound of the word. But to pass over the use of that word to find something that includes men (like equalism) not only doesn't achieve any target other than making your position un-attackable (who wants to attack equality?!). It describes no position, and doesn't help either men or women.

I hate gendered society both because it impacts negatively on people - overwhelmingly women - but also because it's impacted on me, and undoubtedly a lot of other males on this forum. As a meek mannered and academically focussed child who liked to read books in class, we can all imagine the amount of times I was called a faggot, a girl, a pussy, or any other more vicious terms, as well as facing general social exclusion, taunting and whatever else. And yeah, of course, I've been through the whole "must not cry, must not talk about emotions", "must win", "must be tough" and whatever other male experiences you want to talk about (most of which were horrifyingly present even in under 11s Aussie Rules football teams). But the fact of the matter is that if it wasn't bad for be a girl, these 'feminine' traits couldn't be used as an insult. If there weren't a broader, underlying societal attack on femaleness - well, little boys wouldn't be bothered by being associated with femaleness, would they! If gender terms were neutral and someone called you a call, it'd be like getting called an adult or something. "You're an adult!" Ok. Cool. Thanks for the weird insult. This is a "surface" example just dealing with name calling and whatever else, but for so many distinctly male societal issues, you can trace a line straight back to the broader issues we have in society with gender (which are overwhelmingly attached to women).


Basically, the essence of what I'm saying in this post is that feminism is good for men.

Put sloppily.

1. Men are impacted by gender in society.
2. Feminism aims to combat the impact of gender in society. 
Conclusion: Men benefit from successful feminism.

I'm not saying that feminism is super great because it's good for men. Primarily, it's super great because it's good for women (and even more great because it's good for men - it's a win-win, hooray!) But I am saying that any undermining of feminism or the broader feminist movement/history on the basis that 'men face inequality too' or 'feminism is bad because it only focusses on women' is not only besides the point, but also just wrong. Feminism is good for everyone.

Also hip-hip hooray that we've gone onto the second page of a gender-based discussion without anyone being insufferably rude.