Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?

[K888]

If you legalise cannabis, then impressionable young people will begin to think that drugs are OK because they are legal. They are not OK. They can be severely damaging, and should be cracked down on even more than they are, imo. Similarly I think we should ban cigarettes, and phase out alcohol, but many will disagree with me. I don't have a problem with fast food though, but in moderation.

I mean, people still use drugs even though they're not legal. It's not like they're about to shoot up then go "noooo wait this is illegal, I won't do it". With the illicit factor added in, there's also the element of risk which can appeal to younger people, plus there's also the perception in some circles that it's a cool thing to do.

All the criminalisation of drug use achieves is that it's harder for those addicted to substances or having problems with substance abuse to receive the appropriate help. Decriminalisation allows people to seek help more easily, and to use substances in a more safe and controlled environment.

I wonder how different the world would be if there were companies manufacturing drugs that had the same lobbying power that alcohol and cigarette companies have.

[Calebark]

No, no no. I've heard that stance before. Are you really going to compare fast food and alcohol to hard drugs?

Cigarettes,  fast food  and alcohol... they take years off your life, but no... they don't have that sort of instant impact. Drugs are another class of substances which will screw you over in many ways... worse than alcohol and the others.

Drugs are a different sort of beast ^^.

Just a small note to make that cannabis isn't really considered a hard drug, but alcohol is. Hard drugs are just something that are more likely to cause physically addiction. That said, it's more of a street term, and not overly scientific, but I just felt the need to be a pompous ass and correct anyway

If you legalise cannabis, then impressionable young people will begin to think that drugs are OK because they are legal. They are not OK. They can be severely damaging, and should be cracked down on even more than they are, imo. Similarly I think we should ban cigarettes, and phase out alcohol, but many will disagree with me. I don't have a problem with fast food though, but in moderation.

I mean, people still use drugs even though they're not legal. It's not like they're about to shoot up then go "noooo wait this is illegal, I won't do it". With the illicit factor added in, there's also the element of risk which can appeal to younger people, plus there's also the perception in some circles that it's a cool thing to do.

All the criminalisation of drug use achieves is that it's harder for those addicted to substances or having problems with substance abuse to receive the appropriate help. Decriminalisation allows people to seek help more easily, and to use substances in a more safe and controlled environment.

I wonder how different the world would be if there were companies manufacturing drugs that had the same lobbying power that alcohol and cigarette companies have.

Definitely going to agree with K888 here. Drugs are more of a health issue rather than a criminal issue. Your body knows what healthy and what isn't, but the law has the habit of picking and choosing. I don't really agree with cracking down on drugs (I favour rehabilitation over criminal sentencing for users). I mean, I've had to seek help with drugs before. If the law was more harsh, perhaps my life would be very different right now -- I wouldn't even be typing this.

[Glasses]

No, no no. I've heard that stance before. Are you really going to compare fast food and alcohol to hard drugs?

Cigarettes,  fast food  and alcohol... they take years off your life, but no... they don't have that sort of instant impact. Drugs are another class of substances which will screw you over in many ways... worse than alcohol and the others.

Drugs are a different sort of beast ^^.

I understand why you say that, however not all drugs can be grouped together. In fact, I'd argue that alcohol is a more dangerous drug than marijuana - given the health and social impacts of alcohol.

[Poet]

I believe they're probably referring to the fact that cigarettes are known to cause lung cancer and many other health issues and alcohol causes the largest amount of deaths out of all legal and illegal drugs - I would imagine they're saying that these substances are legal yet have been shown to cause harm (not only to the user, but to the community too) whilst the recreational use of marijuana is illegal.

Thanks, K8.

I mean, people still use drugs even though they're not legal. It's not like they're about to shoot up then go "noooo wait this is illegal, I won't do it". With the illicit factor added in, there's also the element of risk which can appeal to younger people, plus there's also the perception in some circles that it's a cool thing to do.

All the criminalisation of drug use achieves is that it's harder for those addicted to substances or having problems with substance abuse to receive the appropriate help. Decriminalisation allows people to seek help more easily, and to use substances in a more safe and controlled environment.

This is a good point. With decriminalisation of cannabis, this could lead to more safe and reliable sources of the drug and rehabilitation would be a lot more open a concept. I do believe however, that if our country is to legalise any drug that was previously labelled illicit, we must have studies that do not contradict each other and the reassurance that no unknown harm could come to those who use it.
We need to be cautious with this, but if alcohol is considered a hard drug and cannabis is not, what's the problem?
We don't imprison people for possession of alcohol unless it is in specific situations, and yet alcohol is just as inhibiting a substance as marijuana.

No matter what anyone does, people will always make their own decisions as to what they want to do, and whether they wish to take the drugs or not. I don't believe that the amount of people using cannabis would change; only the dynamics of the market.

[dankfrank420]

Firstly, cannabis is not a "hard drug" at all.

Secondly, let's consider what I compared cannabis to. Alcohol makes you violent, causes you to lose control of your senses, is linked to family and domestic violence and causes numerous diseases. Cigarettes are known to cause numerous types of cancers. Fast food is linked to heart problems and obesity.

Of course, cannabis has its problems too (although I question how many people actually have an understanding for what it does, reading some of the ridiculous posts here. EEEP, you conflating cannabis with all drugs is laughable).

My point was that if you think cannabis should be banned because it causes some negative effects (like the desire to smash down a box of tim-tams), then you should ban everything else I listed.

They are all vices - the fact that some are "legal" and others aren't doesn't make a drug inherently bad or good.

[Potatohater]

My point was that if you think cannabis should be banned because it causes some negative effects (like the desire to smash down a box of tim-tams), then you should ban everything else I listed.

To add to this, we can't just ban things that have potential to cause us harm. Everything can kill us. somethings more so than others, but weed is not one of those things. If y'all watch the video Susie attatched earlier it explains that weed is responsible for 0 deaths thus far. Just because something is harmful doesn't mean it should be criminalised because people have their own free will to makes descisions for themselves and what they do to thier bodies. If we didn't, we'd be living in a nanny state. If the government really wanted to protect us that much not only would cigarettes and alcohol be banned as well, but also vaccination would be compulsory because even anti-vaxer's are more of a threat to society than the recreational use of weed.

Note: my comment on vaccination is not an excuse to derail the thread, if you have a problem with my stance on the issue, please make a seperate thread.

[sudodds]

They are all vices - the fact that some are "legal" and others aren't doesn't make a drug inherently bad or good.

I agree. It's very interesting when you consider *why* cannabis out of all of these substances you mentioned was singled out as the criminal one as well - essentially racism (primarily against Mexicans and African Americans) and really dodgy politics. I really do recommend people watch the video I linked about a page or so back, it explains a lot of this (also 'Adam Ruins Everything' is just a gem in and of itself). If you can't be bothered though, here is a kicker of a quote, from President Nixon's (the guy who basically launched the war on drugs) Domestic Policy Chief John Ehrlichman.

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

(Just to clarify before someone inevitably misconstrues my point - I'm not at all saying that being against marijuana means you are racist, but I do think it is important to acknowledge that our understanding of the substance has been tainted by A LOT of intentionally misleading information, some of which is really nefarious. Again, really recommend watching the video, it's super interesting, and entertaining!)

[The Special One]

Tried fixing the typos idk what happened lol.

I just don't see the appeal of cannabis honestly too many side effects and risk factors.

Studies aren't exactly damning but evidence exists for the negative effects

[vox nihili]

Just going to jump in and add some weight to the argument that on an individual and population level alcohol is a more harmful drug than cannabis. The evidence to support that statement is overwhelming.

As has been pointed out, the perception that cannabis is more harmful than alcohol is largely rooted in our cultural (by that I mean the dominant Anglo-Saxon culture in Australia) beliefs. These beliefs are inconsistent with the evidence.

That is not to say, however, that cannabis is not harmful. It is still a deeply harmful substance, in particular for THC’s capacity to trigger psychosis and as a risk factor for schizophrenia, which is truly devastating. That legalisation of cannabis is sensible because alcohol is legalised is a moot point and one that fails to appreciate the cultural context. Prohibition of alcohol didn’t work because it is so grounded in our culture. Cannabis is not, so the argument that prohibition doesn’t work is less convincing.

There are, however, some good examples of legalisation effecting a decrease in the burden of disease attributable to cannabis. This mainly occurs because it allows for people to access health services more easily and takes the production of cannabis products away from criminal organisations. Whether this would be applicable to Australia is a challenging question and one I don’t think we can answer yet.

[The Special One]

Prohibition actually cut alcohol usage by quite a bit contrary to popular belief I think it was around a 3rd but I digress.

I'm not a hypocrite, and  if It were up to me I would ban smoking, alcohol in excess ( basically a cap on number of drinks bought per customer or served I nbads ) and cannabis for recreational use across the board. With cannabis being third on that list in order of importance.

So while it's true that other more harmful alternatives exist I don't think we should use that as an excuse to open the floodgates to everything.

[heids]

My sense with any issue like this is - we can come up with all the evidence and ideas we like but its impact is still an unknown.  My gut automatically goes for decriminalisation but like - there's no way I could ever have enough evidence of the subtle ramifications in so many directions to actually weigh up the good and bad of it.  I think we have to make most such choices on loose probabilities and hope for the best, and recognise that sometimes we'll be wrong and that will hurt lots of people.

[The Special One]

Well if we don't know the exact side effects cannabis has, surely the safer option would be to criminalise it until the adverse effects or lack of are made crystal clear?

Just my 2 cents, better safe than sorry

[Yertle the Turtle]

I think that when people say that alcohol is worse for you than certain drugs, so the drugs are not a problem, we are looking at it from the wrong direction. If alcohol is harming people, then it is that that needs to be fixed. Alcohol is seriously damaging, and I think that something needs to be done about it!

[Potatohater]

I think that when people say that alcohol is worse for you than certain drugs, so the drugs are not a problem, we are looking at it from the wrong direction. If alcohol is harming people, then it is that that needs to be fixed. Alcohol is seriously damaging, and I think that something needs to be done about it!

Awww but I like alcohol 
Really we need to tackle the way we treat it though not the substance itself. Our culture of excessive drinking is more of a problem than the substance itself I reckon.

[vox nihili]

Awww but I like alcohol 
Really we need to tackle the way we treat it though not the substance itself. Our culture of excessive drinking is more of a problem than the substance itself I reckon.

There’s an element of truth to this. Alcohol itself is a really damaging substance though. We should be careful not to shy away from the fact that alcohol is inherently very harmful. This harm is enabled by a culture that normalises its use, especially in excess.