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March 29, 2024, 11:21:15 am

Author Topic: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?  (Read 22813 times)  Share 

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sam12345

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Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« on: August 17, 2014, 05:09:49 pm »
0
Wrong thread but whatevs.

Does my going to a school ranked ~30 in VIC as opposed to attending a school ranked like 200th mean I'll get a higher score due to cohort/scaling disregarding factors like working hard as I'd work hard either way?

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keltingmeith

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2014, 05:18:13 pm »
+8
Being at a higher ranked school means that scaling is in your favour - it does not mean you will get a higher ATAR there than you would at any other school.

Alwin

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2014, 05:26:37 pm »
+8
Nope.
Someone will reply with some technical details about scaling and ranking etc but this is an anecdote for you:

I went to a public school with my mate and I got 99.50 (got lazy with english) and he 99.95 (some casual 4 raw 50s + we both got high in 2 3/4s in year 11)
Our school is ranking some 118th in Victoria

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achre

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2014, 05:38:14 pm »
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Doesn't hurt. Does it disregard factors like hard work? Absolutely not.

It tends to work out that "higher ranked" schools get harder SACs with better scaling, and "lower ranked" schools get easier SACs with lower scaling. At the end of the day, you all get the same exam and the same textbooks, so like literally everybody on ATARnotes has reiterated ad nauseum: VCE is what you make of it.

dcc

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2014, 06:20:06 pm »
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Yes

keltingmeith

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2014, 06:25:22 pm »
+2

nerdmmb

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2014, 06:26:32 pm »
+1
My school's ranking is nowhere near great. But I've seen some people get really good ATARs. I'm quite lazy myself and I probably would have been the same at any other school.

So ultimately, it comes down to how much effort you invest wherever you are.

Aaron

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2014, 06:31:39 pm »
+4
I absolutely disagree with the statement that private school students get better ATAR's.

I went to a public school and some of the ATAR's that my cohort (and other cohorts) produced were >90.

I will say however, private schools are somewhat better funded to produce better curriculum and better resources than public schools.. But this obviously isn't the only determining factor to success. As long as you have the determination and maintain a decent rank throughout Year 12, there is still great potential to achieve a high ATAR.
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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2014, 06:39:18 pm »
+6
While it's not a determining factor of how well you will go in VCE, I'd bet my savings that the average ATAR produced at a private school is higher than that of a public school. Funding, resources etc.
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Reus

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2014, 06:42:44 pm »
+4
Only because of the status, funding, facilities and may I say enthusiastic teachers, a collective average of ATARs may/will be higher as compared to a public school. But your ATAR will not fluctuate because of the school itself. That's dependent on you.

Your ATAR will be higher though, if you work harder.
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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2014, 06:43:23 pm »
+2
You will not be at any disadvantage for choosing a bad school over a good school, so long as your individual performance is the same in both schools. If you get a high ranking in an average cohort, then your scaled score will be the same as someone who got a middle ranking in a strong cohort. It's kind of like saying: someone who can win 2/10 football matches against Hawthorn is just as good as someone who can win 8/10 football matches against St Kilda :P It doesn't matter how weak or strong your opponents (cohort) are, because the scaling evens it out in the end.

There is the psychological effect of going to a good school over a bad school, though. Many people find that they are more motivated when they hang around other motivated people, and hence their individual performance improves in a good school, giving them a higher ATAR. It can work the other way though: you could lose motivation if everyone around you is constantly scoring higher than you and making you feel stupid.

But if your individual performance is consistent, then you will get the same ATAR at any school you go to.
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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2014, 06:46:05 pm »
+2
While it's not a determining factor of how well you will go in VCE, I'd bet my savings that the average ATAR produced at a private school is higher than that of a public school. Funding, resources etc.

This is actually a concept covered in a book I once read, "How to Lie with Statistics". In the first chapter, it's noted that you must think about your sample before you try to make any inference on the statistics you have gathered.

For example, it is true that on average, private schools might have more funding, resources, etc. However, it's also true that people pay a lot of money to go to a private school so that they can get a high ATAR. This implies that the students there want a high ATAR, and so will work much harder than your average public school student. Rather than it being a direct consequence of them being at a private school is influencing their ATARs, it is quite possible that the work ethic at a private school is, on average, much higher than it is at a public school, and this is what is influencing their ATAR.

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2014, 06:51:34 pm »
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This is actually a concept covered in a book I once read, "How to Lie with Statistics". In the first chapter, it's noted that you must think about your sample before you try to make any inference on the statistics you have gathered.

For example, it is true that on average, private schools might have more funding, resources, etc. However, it's also true that people pay a lot of money to go to a private school so that they can get a high ATAR. This implies that the students there want a high ATAR, and so will work much harder than your average public school student. Rather than it being a direct consequence of them being at a private school is influencing their ATARs, it is quite possible that the work ethic at a private school is, on average, much higher than it is at a public school, and this is what is influencing their ATAR.

This is why you need to do a statistical test for causation: randomly swap half the private school students with half the public school students and see if those who graduate from private schools still end up with better marks than those who graduate from public schools.
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DJA

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2014, 07:08:28 pm »
+2
This is actually a concept covered in a book I once read, "How to Lie with Statistics". In the first chapter, it's noted that you must think about your sample before you try to make any inference on the statistics you have gathered.

For example, it is true that on average, private schools might have more funding, resources, etc. However, it's also true that people pay a lot of money to go to a private school so that they can get a high ATAR. This implies that the students there want a high ATAR, and so will work much harder than your average public school student. Rather than it being a direct consequence of them being at a private school is influencing their ATARs, it is quite possible that the work ethic at a private school is, on average, much higher than it is at a public school, and this is what is influencing their ATAR.

I have to disagree with that. What more often is the case from what I've seen at my own school is that parents who are wealthy send their kids (often spoiled and couldn't give a stuff about education) to the private school where they do the minimum amount of work possible and scrape by without ACTUALLY trying in any real manner. It's unreasonable to make the leap between paying a lot of money to go to private school AND the desire to get a high ATAR.

Fine there are the odd students who are at the private school whose parents work their arses off to give their kid the best education they believe is possible - BUT they are the minority.

What is often the case is that the majority of students are there because their parents can easily afford and/or they live in the affluent area around the private school.

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keltingmeith

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Re: Does going to a private school make you get a better atar?
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2014, 07:15:50 pm »
+1
I have to disagree with that. What more often is the case from what I've seen at my own school is that parents who are wealthy send their kids (often spoiled and couldn't give a stuff about education) to the private school where they do the minimum amount of work possible and scrape by without ACTUALLY trying in any real manner. It's unreasonable to make the leap between paying a lot of money to go to private school AND the desire to get a high ATAR.

Fine there are the odd students who are at the private school whose parents work their arses off to give their kid the best education they believe is possible - BUT they are the minority.

What is often the case is that the majority of students are there because their parents can easily afford and/or they live in the affluent area around the private school.

--my thoughts

There really are too many variables to just make assumptions without proper testing, hahah. Too bad we can't play with high school students to test all of this out~