ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE Business Studies => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Legal Studies => Topic started by: azhtey on November 14, 2007, 02:43:26 pm
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Since the exam kicks off at 3pm today I thought i would have a thread waiting for you guys to let off some steam about it.
So, how was it :?:
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holy shittt that exam was tight for time. I answered everything but i'm a little disappointed, it's so frustrating when you have more to write and no time to write it! I duno why, cos I've never had a problem with time before, but I didn't even get time to proofread it all. ga there gos 45
I was confident with all the questions apart form the civil pre-trial procedures one, but I just wrote shit. hm.
I'm still shaking! god I don't know why I was so nervous. I struggled to write properly for the first 15 mins cos i was shaking! but then i calmed haha. maybe that affected my time.
god now i have how long to agonise over this?
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It was a pretty fair exam, it covered quite a large amount of content, which was good. One thing which threw me off a bit was that question about identifying two relationships between Parliament and the Courts as law-makers early in the paper. I had to give that question a bit of thought to ensure that I didn't give any examples that would be better used on Q13-A. I wasn't expecting a low mark question about the relationship between them, I was really only prepared for it to be part of one of the higher mark questions.
The only other thing which I think I messed up on was going a bit overboard on the "two cases that have changed the division of powers" question... I wrote an entire extra page, which meant I lost about 5-10 minutes of time.
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The only other thing which I think I messed up on was going a bit overboard on the "two cases that have changed the division of powers" question... I wrote an entire extra page, which meant I lost about 5-10 minutes of time.
yeah i wrote a bit too much for that too, they should have made it worth more marks.
what did you put for the question of the MC? I said that the chick was right, because he could choose to have it heard in the county court (god i hope break and entering is an indictable offence!) and also cos there is more then 1 avenue for appeal (CC against a conviction or a sentence, SC on a point of law)
what did you put for the one about civil pre-trial procedures v. tribunals/ADR?
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fuck. the question did ask if there was more than one avenue for appeal from the MC yes?
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The only other thing which I think I messed up on was going a bit overboard on the "two cases that have changed the division of powers" question... I wrote an entire extra page, which meant I lost about 5-10 minutes of time.
yeah i wrote a bit too much for that too, they should have made it worth more marks.
what did you put for the question of the MC? I said that the chick was right, because he could choose to have it heard in the county court (god i hope break and entering is an indictable offence!) and also cos there is more then 1 avenue for appeal (CC against a conviction or a sentence, SC on a point of law)
what did you put for the one about civil pre-trial procedures v. tribunals/ADR?
The two problems I addressed were cost and time - both make dispute resolution less accessible for society. I said something along the lines of that for my intro and then I started off talking about why courts were costly, then said how tribunals addressed this, followed by a bit about how ADR addressed this problem. I went on to do the same for time and then finished off with a statement about how courts, ADR and tribunals each have a place in the legal system.
fuck. the question did ask if there was more than one avenue for appeal from the MC yes?
I'm not sure if it even asked if there were multiple avenues, I seemed to remember it asking whether the friend was right in advising the defendant to have his case hear in the Magistrates Court. I interpreted this to mean that it was an indictable offence being heard summarily.
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I'm not sure if it even asked if there were multiple avenues, I seemed to remember it asking whether the friend was right in advising the defendant to have his case hear in the Magistrates Court. I interpreted this to mean that it was an indictable offence being heard summarily.
yep and then the second statement was that the friend said he would .. something about appeals. god now i'm stressed i misread this bit.
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advising? didn't it say something like .. the friend said he could have it heard in another court? and i said the friend was right cos it could also be heard in the county
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I'm not sure if it even asked if there were multiple avenues, I seemed to remember it asking whether the friend was right in advising the defendant to have his case hear in the Magistrates Court. I interpreted this to mean that it was an indictable offence being heard summarily.
yep and then the second statement was that the friend said he would .. something about appeals. god now i'm stressed i misread this bit.
Ah, yup, I remember it said that... but I thought that it was only stimulus material which could be used in your answer. For example:
"One advantage of Brooke(?) having his indictable offence heard summarily in the Magistrate's Court is that it would enable more avenues for him to appeal. Another advantage is the lesser maximum sentence... etc etc".
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I really enjoyed that exam especially the last question. I also wasn't sure about breaking and entering...oh well. What question did people choose for no. 13? Jury or precendent?
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["One advantage of having his indictable offence heard summarily in the Magistrate's Court is that it would enable more avenues for him to appeal. Another advantage is the lesser maximum sentence... etc etc".
fuck. it talked about advantages?
does ANYONE here remember the actual wording?
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I really enjoyed that exam especially the last question. I also wasn't sure about breaking and entering...oh well. What question did people choose for no. 13? Jury or precendent?
I did jury, I liked the question. could have written more if i'd had MORE TIME. but overall i think i did ok on that q.
i am seriously still shaky!
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I really enjoyed that exam especially the last question. I also wasn't sure about breaking and entering...oh well. What question did people choose for no. 13? Jury or precendent?
Is 'enjoyed' really the right word? lol
Well all in all I am actually pretty satisfied with the exam. It was hard. It was long. But I think I did pretty well compared to everyone else. 2 of my friends who happen to be very very good at legal both didnt finish. One who is an A+ student didnt answer two 8 mark questions. She was nearly in tears. The other one wrote in dot points for the last question.
I had the same problem as you guys. I wrote that Bruce ( i think that was his name) could have it heard in the County Court depending on the severity of the theft and if it was heard on indictment. I also said something about thefts under 25 thousand being indictable offences that can be heard summarily .
I wrote what you wrote goosefraba. point of law to supreme trial division and conviction of sentence to the County.
It didnt talk about advantages. Just asked " if bruce was found guilty where could he appeal to"
something like that
nothing about advantages.
The last question I wanted to do on parliaments but it wasnt even there! lol and i didnt like doctrine of precedent question so i did juries which i rambled on about for a good 3 pages. lol
the civil pre trial question was annoyin. I said soemthign like pleadings and discovry slow down the process. and pleadings and discovery make it too costly. ( legal fees from solicitor) and adrs are just cheaper (no legal rep) and faster (dont have to go back and forth between parties)
Umm.. anything else?
My teacher said that the required mark for an a+ will probably drop because it was too long and was a hard exam compared to last year. Unless they just mark easier on the hard questions compared to last year.
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I really enjoyed that exam especially the last question. I also wasn't sure about breaking and entering...oh well. What question did people choose for no. 13? Jury or precendent?
I did jury, I liked the question. could have written more if i'd had MORE TIME. but overall i think i did ok on that q.
i am seriously still shaky!
Dw goosefraba. a lot of people would have been rushing through. I dont know anyone who had time to go over and check and stuff. The quesations from 9-12 were killers. Way too long
and also wrote over the specified lines for the 2 high court cases
Dw, youll be fine. I found it hard but am actually happy because I finished it all and wrote in decent detail I started writing on the last page for the last question. just the first few lines.
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oh thank god thanks costa :D now i feel less stressed.
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It was actually funny reading what you wrote when I got online cause u basically had the same queries that I had.
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it was a good paper, but what was with all the extended responses?
was that the normal amount of extended response questions? i've never seen so many on an exam paper.
argh i didn't get time to read over my answers either, it usually makes me more confident after an exam when i read over my answers, now ill be left wondering :(
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They were the exact same mark allocations as they were last year... two eight marks , one ten etc... dont know why it was so much harder to finish. PRobably cause the mark allocations themselves were wrong
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They were the exact same mark allocations as they were last year... two eight marks , one ten etc... dont know why it was so much harder to finish. PRobably cause the mark allocations themselves were wrong
\
yeah maybe it was cos for what they wanted us to do, we needed to write more than they expected. duno.
and flywithme im exactly the same i need to reread to feel... i duno like ive finished or something haha.
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The 2 civil pre-trial procedure problems I did financial barriers, that ADR and VCAT help overcome this obstacle, and Soical and cultural difference, and that CALD mediators overcome this.
The exam was so long, half way through I thought I mya be running tight for time so I did the last quesiton mid way through incase I did.
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was a good exam and i finished with time to spare... i had the same queries firstly with the "advice" quesiton i agreed on both parts as the case cvould have been heard i nthe county court and also appeals could have gone 2 both the county and supreme court based on purpose of appeal
also the civil pre-trial question was really my only other query, i used time and costs(low socio economic standing) and related it 2 problems.. lol
im happy overall
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and flywithme im exactly the same i need to reread to feel... i duno like ive finished or something haha.
yeah its just for reassurance that you've actually done okay.
oh well, at least i finished it, quite a few people i spoke to afterward left out one or two questions!
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What pissed me off was 'Explain TWO High Court cases' 2?? WTF I purposely learn one case for each thing, so I did Brislan and Tas Dams case, but bullshitted it a bit
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What pissed me off was 'Explain TWO High Court cases' 2?? WTF I purposely learn one case for each thing, so I did Brislan and Tas Dams case, but bullshitted it a bit
i could have explained 5 or 6 cases, what was annoying was that they only allocated what 4 marks for it? should have been more
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i did tasmanian dams and brislan as well, but i had the biggest mental blank when it came to brislan.
i couldn't think of the impact of that decision, then i calmed myself down and it came back to me!
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Yeah 4 marks was stupid for such a question, and could have provided more lines to give you 6 marks easily.
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I knew two in detail. Any more would be stretching it. Pissed me off that was only worth 4 marks. Lol. I dont think I will get 8/8 for the extended questions.. Imagine how much you would have to write!
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The only other thing which I think I messed up on was going a bit overboard on the "two cases that have changed the division of powers" question... I wrote an entire extra page, which meant I lost about 5-10 minutes of time.
oooh wasn't that what i wrote my paper on ^^
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What did you actually have to say when talking about the impact?
I said for eg. for franklin dam the effect on law making powers was that the commonwealths law making powers increased because they can now legislate using their 'external affairs' power to legislate in areas that were previously state powers....
something like that
I knew detail for them too.
Eg.
R. Brislan (1935)
S51 (v) "postal, telegraphic and other like services"
The Wireless Telegraphy Act ( 1905)
Franklim Dam Case (1983)
S51 (xxix) "external affairs"
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workchoices all the fucking way
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What did you actually have to say when talking about the impact?
I said for eg. for franklin dam the effect on law making powers was that the commonwealths law making powers increased because they can now legislate using their 'external affairs' power to legislate in areas that were previously state powers....
yep and it could lead them to assume power in other areas covered by an international treaty. had it been worth more marks i would have also put, for example when they passed the Human Rights (sexual conduct) act 1994 and overrode the tas criminal code but gahhhhh wasted too much time explaining the actual case. damn 4 mark question
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workchoices all the fucking way
ew something not in the text! yuk haha
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yep and it could lead them to assume power in other areas covered by an international treaty. had it been worth more marks i would have also put, for example when they passed the Human Rights (sexual conduct) act 1994 and overrode the tas criminal code but gahhhhh wasted too much time explaining the actual case. damn 4 mark question
there was so much stuff i wanted to write. but couldnt because not enough time. it was only 4 marks. im sure i did enough for 4 marks.
1. exaplin the case
2. the outcome of case
3. the effect of the case on law mkaing powers for cwth and states.
thats the system i did for them
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workchoices all the fucking way
ew something not in the text! yuk haha
whats wrong with something not in the text huh? even better, u know how many people did external owers and brislan??? be original dammit
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there was so much stuff i wanted to write. but couldnt because not enough time. it was only 4 marks. im sure i did enough for 4 marks.
1. exaplin the case
2. the outcome of case
3. the effect of the case on law mkaing powers for cwth and states.
thats the system i did for them
yeah same. but it's annoying cos you just wanna write everything ya know haha. how freaking annoying is it to think of alllll the shitloads of stuff we remebered that wasn't even on there. jurisdictions anyone? as in vcat jurisdictions fuck!
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whats wrong with something not in the text huh? even better, u know how many people did external owers and brislan??? be original dammit
for a 4 mark q, you won't get marks for originality
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workchoices all the fucking way
ew something not in the text! yuk haha
whats wrong with something not in the text huh? even better, u know how many people did external owers and brislan??? be original dammit
hahah i was just jokin. did your teacher teach you that or give u references? i woodnt trust my own judgement.
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there was so much stuff i wanted to write. but couldnt because not enough time. it was only 4 marks. im sure i did enough for 4 marks.
1. exaplin the case
2. the outcome of case
3. the effect of the case on law mkaing powers for cwth and states.
thats the system i did for them
yeah same. but it's annoying cos you just wanna write everything ya know haha. how freaking annoying is it to think of alllll the shitloads of stuff we remebered that wasn't even on there. jurisdictions anyone? as in vcat jurisdictions fuck!
Omg so much crap that wasnt on there!!!
I was talkin about it with my teacher afterwards.
Separation of powers
division of powers!
crim trial and pre trial!
umm cant think of others right now
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did anyone else find it annoying that the space left for answers was clearly not the space that should have been left? it was stupid.
there was only one person that asked for a script book, but she's crazy lol.
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Omg so much crap that wasnt on there!!!
I was talkin about it with my teacher afterwards.
Separation of powers
division of powers!
crim trial and pre trial!
umm cant think of others right now
VCATTTT!!!!!
i knew every damn jurisdcitional limit. every damn exception. every detail damit!
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Yeh I found it annoyin how 8 mark questions had ridiculous amount of lines. Even though they did that just so ppl didnt have to keep turning pages and writin continued... was still so anoyin seeing the empty space and feelin like u hadnt answerd enough.
Omg so much crap that wasnt on there!!!
I was talkin about it with my teacher afterwards.
Separation of powers
division of powers!
crim trial and pre trial!
umm cant think of others right now
VCATTTT!!!!!
i knew every damn jurisdcitional limit. every damn exception. every detail damit!
we only had to know residential tenancies, civil claims and anti discrimination didnt we?
wats there 2 know? lool
i didnt do much work on it so im happy
isnt civil claims for small claims between traders and consumers up to value of 10,000?
and anti discrim when a resolution cant be made by equal opportunity commision. and must be a certain form of discrim (eg. against marital stautus) and in a certain are (eg. employment)
and residential tenancies just between landlords and tenants?
what else did you learn 4 it?
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I really enjoyed that exam especially the last question. I also wasn't sure about breaking and entering...oh well. What question did people choose for no. 13? Jury or precendent?
Is 'enjoyed' really the right word? lol
Well all in all I am actually pretty satisfied with the exam. It was hard. It was long. But I think I did pretty well compared to everyone else. 2 of my friends who happen to be very very good at legal both didnt finish. One who is an A+ student didnt answer two 8 mark questions. She was nearly in tears. The other one wrote in dot points for the last question.
I had the same problem as you guys. I wrote that Bruce ( i think that was his name) could have it heard in the County Court depending on the severity of the theft and if it was heard on indictment. I also said something about thefts under 25 thousand being indictable offences that can be heard summarily .
I wrote what you wrote goosefraba. point of law to supreme trial division and conviction of sentence to the County.
It didnt talk about advantages. Just asked " if bruce was found guilty where could he appeal to"
something like that
nothing about advantages.
The last question I wanted to do on parliaments but it wasnt even there! lol and i didnt like doctrine of precedent question so i did juries which i rambled on about for a good 3 pages. lol
the civil pre trial question was annoyin. I said soemthign like pleadings and discovry slow down the process. and pleadings and discovery make it too costly. ( legal fees from solicitor) and adrs are just cheaper (no legal rep) and faster (dont have to go back and forth between parties)
Umm.. anything else?
My teacher said that the required mark for an a+ will probably drop because it was too long and was a hard exam compared to last year. Unless they just mark easier on the hard questions compared to last year.
Yes enjoyed is definatly the right word. I really enjoyed it... I've never enjoyed an exam before. I know there are some things I screwed up on but over all I had a lot of fun. Especially the last question, I did precendent and wrote for like 5 pages.
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5 pages for precedent!!!
holy shit
lol
I would have struggled with 1 and a half! how can u write so much on it?
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iisnt civil claims for small claims between traders and consumers up to value of 10,000?
and anti discrim when a resolution cant be made by equal opportunity commision. and must be a certain form of discrim (eg. against marital stautus) and in a certain are (eg. employment)
and residential tenancies just between landlords and tenants?
what else did you learn 4 it?
civil claims: small claims between traders and consumers relating to the provision of goods and services, under the Fair Trading Act 1999, up to $10,000 but excluding a contract for life insurance. Also claims under the Motor Trading Act where there has been some misrepresentation or unfair tactics (eg false odometer readings)
res: up to $10,000
anti discrim: yep and I knew all the damn areas, and the exceptions (ie. when employers can discriminate against future employees if the employment is for the care or instruction of children, and they reasonably believe the discrim is necessary to protect the childrens welfare. oh and its under the equal opportunity act 1995. and hears sexual harrassment
and i knew the avenue for appeal, examples of orders they make, examples of cases they hear, grr dam you vcaa
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yay go vcaa i didnt know all the detail! haha
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5 pages for precedent!!!
holy shit
lol
I would have struggled with 1 and a half! how can u write so much on it?
I just went through the operation of precent, how its formed and where its found (you know all the stare decisi, ratio decidendi, obiter dictum stuff). Why it exists. Difference between binding and persausive. Then reversing, overruling, distinguishing and disaproving and how that a agrees or does not agree with the quote they gave us. they taked about how it was both flexible and rigid and what the effect of that was...meh i just managed to bullshit on a fair bit :D
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Fair enough
lol
yeh i wooda felt really all over the place with a question like that
I like structure in my answers. Hope u did well on it =) u think most ppl did the jury question?
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I hope I did too because I know a couple of screw ups I made, like about hearing the case in another court...I said it was a summary offence so Bruce couldn't. Meh. Is anyone acctually sure if breaking and entering is a summary of indictable offence?
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I am pretty sure that it can be heard on indictment.
It just didnt make sense for the question to be No that is incorrect.
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Well the second part was definatly not correct. True it dosent make sense, I wasn't really thinking but I still mentioned that even if he could have his case heard in another court it wouldn't be advisable because of severity of sentance and cost etc. So hopefully I'll get two marks out of 3 for that question.
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yeh
what did you say for the appeals?
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P.o.f county, p.o.l supreme and explained what each of those were. Is that right? I always have difficulty remembering appellate jurisdiction..
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p.o.f = point of fact???
umm i dont think so... im pretty sure its appeal on point of law to the supreme -trial division and appeal to the county on sanction and conviction
and considering it was 1 mark ( i think) i dont think u needed to explain it that thoroughly.
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yeah point of fact is to do with civil, not criminal
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Oh yeah sorry. I didn't write p.o.f but its kinda the only way I can remember it in my head. The way I think of it, santion and conviction are facts and I can remember that they are appealed to the county court cos "f" comes before "l" (p.o.l) in the alphabet just like "c" (county crt) comes before "s" (supreme crt, appealate jur)...I must be getting tired. Haha sorry I didn't mean tto explain my whole memorization process...just...I'm pretty sure I wrote the right thing. God I'm ramberling. I think it's time for bed. Nighty night people
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For appeals I just said County, I thought why on earth would a minor offence such as theft of a TV be heard all the way to the Supreme, but I find out it does hear appeals. However most of our school just said County, some said Supreme.
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You had to learn your appeals process for that. On a Point of law it goes to supreme because its a case of major importance (ie they are questioning the law) and therefore it may be setting a precedent because its a superior court of record. (i hope thats the right explanation... its 10am and i woke up 10 minutes ago and skulled a V. Year 11 exams today =(
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Oh well I really dont care it was one mark, ill get half
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They don't give half marks (ie. you cant get 0.5 out of 1, although you can get 1 out of 2)
But yeh only one mark so it really is a very small error that won't make a substantial difference =)
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SICKKKKKkkkk of people saying that Childen's Court was the answer for the Bruce jurisdiction question
This is what I PM'ed PeteShep from BoS website arrogantly proclaiming answer is Childen's Court
Hey in BoS you said that Childrens court well in fact YOUR WRONG =)
soz just had to tell you that I got the mark and you didnt =)
Jurisdiction
The Criminal Division of the Children's Court of Victoria has jurisdiction under section 516 of the Children, Youth and Families Act 2005 to hear and determine charges against young people aged between 10 and 17 years at the time of committing the alleged offence.
Source
http://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/CA256CA800014B4A/page/Criminal+Division?OpenDocument&1=30-Criminal+Division~&2=~&3=~
Sooooo looks like I got the mark and you didn't =)
If someone commits an offence at the age of 18 they are obviously tried as an adult and not a child.
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Woops just realised now I look arrogant haha
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lol i bet you felt good about yourself :P
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Ok, slightly off the topic of that one 3 mark question we're all obsessing over, what did people write for the 8 mark comparison between Australia's and America's (or whatever country you did) protection of human rights?
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Ok, slightly off the topic of that one 3 mark question we're all obsessing over, what did people write for the 8 mark comparison between Australia's and America's (or whatever country you did) protection of human rights?
I compared with canada, went through all the differences, and then said how overall I thought canada protected human and democratic rights better because it has an entrenched bill of rights which offers more protection for minority groups (I talked about gay marriage and the halpern case) and ensures that the rights protected don't depend on the political persuasions of the party who hold the majority of seats in parliament (which statutory rights do. Although they are more flexible this way)
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^ I had know idea about the 'evaluation' part of that question. Just winged it so I hope I don't lose too many marks.
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^ I had know idea about the 'evaluation' part of that question. Just winged it so I hope I don't lose too many marks.
Yeah it would be difficult to do purely from the text book, as it doesn't evaluate them as such. But I was expecting this question after reading the 2006 assessment report where they stressed that we need to be able to evaluate them
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did anyone find out what answer was required for bruce and danni as in my statement of results i got no marks for it and it cost me as 43 i think which is annoying as the boy i was competing with all yea got 43 and i only got 42.
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sorry what was the question again and what was ur answer?