Repeating year 12 (I know there are lots of duplicates, sorry)

[Archmage]

Hi,
So I know people post this every year, but I still need to post this because from all the forums I've read, some of my questions aren't seem to be answered.

So yes, I might have to repeat year 12.
It is due to some problems associated with my VISA (I am an international student). The short story is if I go to uni next year, there's gonna be some issues and I have to wait a year, and do high school. It sucks I know, but there's no other options.
I've discussed this with my school, and it's the best idea they've come up with as well.

Apparently I am a bit worried and have some questions want to ask you guys. After reading other posts, I've narrowed them down to 2. So first question: Can I get a lower ATAR if I repeat year 12, if so how much lower might it be? I know the study scores won't actually decrease. So if there was this subject I did this year, and I do again next year, even if I did worse next year, they would still use the SS from this year (which is higher apparently) to calculate my second ATAR. If I do better next year, they would use the second year's SS. So my SS won't decrease no matter what. But although ATAR is calculated by ranking my total scaled study scores, if everyone else next year somehow got higher scaled study scores, wouldn't that lower my ranking and decrease my ATAR? I am a bit worried about that. I got not bad ATAR this year and it would be awful if it can actually decrease. So if it can actually decrease, would the difference be big? Say >1.00 variation?

Secondly, if I fail my subjects when repeating, is it gonna be a problem? I am a good student and it is extremely unlikely for me to fail subjects when repeating, but I am asking just in case. So if I do so bad next year that I fail a certain subject, not just "do slightly worse", is it still gonna be okay? Can they still use my SS for that subject from this year?

I have a friend, who is also from Geelong, is having very similar problem, so it would be awesome if you guys can clear the air for us. Thanks!

[Litigator]

Hi,
So I know people post this every year, but I still need to post this because from all the forums I've read, some of my questions aren't seem to be answered.

So yes, I might have to repeat year 12.
It is due to some problems associated with my VISA (I am an international student). The short story is if I go to uni next year, there's gonna be some issues and I have to wait a year, and do high school. It sucks I know, but there's no other options.
I've discussed this with my school, and it's the best idea they've come up with as well.

Apparently I am a bit worried and have some questions want to ask you guys. After reading other posts, I've narrowed them down to 2. So first question: Can I get a lower ATAR if I repeat year 12, if so how much lower might it be? I know the study scores won't actually decrease. So if there was this subject I did this year, and I do again next year, even if I did worse next year, they would still use the SS from this year (which is higher apparently) to calculate my second ATAR. If I do better next year, they would use the second year's SS. So my SS won't decrease no matter what. But although ATAR is calculated by ranking my total scaled study scores, if everyone else next year somehow got higher scaled study scores, wouldn't that lower my ranking and decrease my ATAR? I am a bit worried about that. I got not bad ATAR this year and it would be awful if it can actually decrease. So if it can actually decrease, would the difference be big? Say >1.00 variation?

Secondly, if I fail my subjects when repeating, is it gonna be a problem? I am a good student and it is extremely unlikely for me to fail subjects when repeating, but I am asking just in case. So if I do so bad next year that I fail a certain subject, not just "do slightly worse", is it still gonna be okay? Can they still use my SS for that subject from this year?

I have a friend, who is also from Geelong, is having very similar problem, so it would be awesome if you guys can clear the air for us. Thanks!

You dont get a new atar. The only possible thing is for it to increase...

Your atar is calculated by your top 4 subjects and then your next best 2 subjects worth 10% each. If you did a total of 12 subjects. Your top 4 subjects will be added + 10% of your next two subjects, the remaining 6 isnt used in calculating your atar.

If you got 99.95 with 6 subjects of 50 study scores each in 2016 and in 2017 you did 5 subjects and got study scores of 20,21,22,23 and 24, your atar will be 99.95.

[peterpiper]

VCE isn't like the IB (if you're familiar with it) - in that with VCE you can repeat it as many times as like three or four times, and the highest study scores you receive from those years you did VCE will count toward your ATAR. Your ATAR will never lower due to repeat, because they will always use your six highest study scores (you can repeat subjects, but they'll just use the highest SS for that subject if it makes it to your top six subjects).

The reason why so many year 12 students don't repeat VCE is because it's just not worth doing again haha. You won't get penalised or anything, and in your case, it'd just be a year invested on either improving your ATAR or (if you don't do as well in your VCE the year you repeat) a year wasted.

Hope that answers your question!

[Archmage]

You dont get a new atar. The only possible thing is for it to increase...

Your atar is calculated by your top 4 subjects and then your next best 2 subjects worth 10% each. If you did a total of 12 subjects. Your top 4 subjects will be added + 10% of your next two subjects, the remaining 6 isnt used in calculating your atar.

If you got 99.95 with 6 subjects of 50 study scores each in 2016 and in 2017 you did 5 subjects and got study scores of 20,21,22,23 and 24, your atar will be 99.95.

Hi, Thanks for replying.
I get what you mean, but can ATAR really just increase or stay the same?
For example, consider this: Let's say I did English and five other subjects this year, after scaled up or down, my English SS was say 35, and the five others are 38, 39, 40, 41, 42. So my total SS would be 35+40+41+42+3.8+3.9=165.7
Next year, let's assume my new Eng scaled SS was exactly 35 again, the five others (in the same order as before) becomes 40(increased) 35(decreased) 44(increased) 40(decreased) 37(decreased), so during the two years, my top three SS (besides English) would be 44 42 41 followed by 40 and 39, and the new total would become 169.9 which is higher than the first year. So theoretically my ranking would be higher and thus get a higher ATAR. My question is, would it be possible (I know it would be very unlikely considering they actually scale our scores, but still...) for the students in the second year to somehow get generally higher total SS, especially in the top tier students, which actually lowered my ranking, causing me to get a lower ATAR than this year even though I get a higher total SS?
That's what I am actually worrying about , Thanks for helping!

[peterpiper]

Hi, Thanks for replying.
I get what you mean, but can ATAR really just increase or stay the same?
For example, consider this: Let's say I did English and five other subjects this year, after scaled up or down, my English SS was say 35, and the five others are 38, 39, 40, 41, 42. So my total SS would be 35+40+41+42+3.8+3.9=165.7
Next year, let's assume my new Eng scaled SS was exactly 35 again, the five others (in the same order as before) becomes 40(increased) 35(decreased) 44(increased) 40(decreased) 37(decreased), so during the two years, my top three SS (besides English) would be 44 42 41 followed by 40 and 39, and the new total would become 169.9 which is higher than the first year. So theoretically my ranking would be higher and thus get a higher ATAR. My question is, would it be possible (I know it would be very unlikely considering they actually scale our scores, but still...) for the students in the second year to somehow get generally higher total SS, especially in the top tier students, which actually lowered my ranking, causing me to get a lower ATAR than this year even though I get a higher total SS?
That's what I am actually worrying about , Thanks for helping!

Could you rephrase that question? I'm sorry but it's really hard to understand what you mean there! Break up your sentence if you can help it

EDIT: After reading your question for the fifth time, I can't help but feel you have a misunderstanding about 'ranking'.

Also, the scaling of your subject is subject to the year when you did it. Say if you did Literature in 2015 and got 35, and then you repeated it but only got 26. Then in your final ATAR, you would get the SS you got in 2015 for Literature along with the scaling it received from 2015.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term 'ranking among your peers' only really matters in how well you perform in your SACs. VCAA uses this to moderate exam scores or something...I don't know, I'm not too familiar with this kind of talk. But repeating Year 12 and getting a higher aggregate score, shouldn't lower your ATAR - because a higher aggregate score would mean for a higher ATAR...

[Archmage]

Could you rephrase that question? I'm sorry but it's really hard to understand what you mean there! Break up your sentence if you can help it

Sorry, I was trying to say that could my ATAR decrease even though I get a higher total SS next year because the top tier students next year all get higher total SS which actually lowers my rank?

[Swagadaktal]

Sorry, I was trying to say that could my ATAR decrease even though I get a higher total SS next year because the top tier students next year all get higher total SS which actually lowers my rank?

No this will not happen. If your new calculated ATAR is lower (i.e say if you have the exact same overall total aggregate but your atar corresponds to a lower atar coz that year is more competitive) it will not be used - instead, your ATAR (the one you'd give to uni's) would be your higher atar and not your newly calculated one.

[Archmage]

A higher aggregate score means a higher ATAR, my friend

But you're right to a certain extent that your ATAR is subject to the peers you compete with in the year you complete it. For example a minimum total aggregate score that would give you 99.95 in 2015 is 210.18

While in 2014, an aggregate score of 211.3 is required for a 99.95

Each year, your ATAR actually does depend on the overall competition felt in that year you complete VCE. So in the case I've given, 2014 seemed a lot more competitive to get a 99.95 than in 2015.

Fair enough, the required scores don't seem to vary much though, so it shouldn't be a problem.

No this will not happen. If your new calculated ATAR is lower (i.e say if you have the exact same overall total aggregate but your atar corresponds to a lower atar coz that year is more competitive) it will not be used - instead, your ATAR (the one you'd give to uni's) would be your higher atar and not your newly calculated one.

Oh, I didn't know that, I thought they only do that to SS. If that's the case, it would be awesome.
So the new ATAR, even if it was lower, wouldn't be by much, and they would use the higher one anyway.
That's a relif. Thanks guys!