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Author Topic: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread  (Read 596245 times)  Share 

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thaaanyan

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1560 on: August 02, 2015, 12:47:23 pm »
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Hey - In its strictest sense it isn't comparative, because it doesn't have any comparative words in it and it doesn't explicitly say anything like 'evaluate which of courts and VCAT is more effective' - BUT, I think you'd have a far better response and a better chance of getting full marks if you had that comparative component. I'd definitely have it in there (and it also makes the answer hang together better).

Why are you confused over structure? Every opinion-based question just has the same basic structure: opinion, reasons for and against, opinion. Integrating the opinion the whole way through is obviously more flow-y and efficient, but you can just paint-by-numbers, too. With your reasons for and against, remember to include even just a little of the other side, to ensure you've covered the different aspects of the argument - even if you prefer VCAT overall, it won't be better in every single way. And you can phrase some of these as concessions: eg "Even though VCAT weakness blah blah..."

Re your content, it's fine. It's a very standard, popular point to make. You don't have as much evidentiary detail as you could have (eg the actual amount of popular or average fees for filing at specific VCAT lists versus specific courts), and there are some nuances you could include (eg why it is easier to be self-represented at VCAT), but the basic point is solid.

Thanks very much for the clarification, especially with the structure and the extra points to make!!
Just another quick question, how long exactley should an 8/10 marker be? like, how many paragraphs and how many sentences in the paragraph?
i've been told 4 arguments for a 10 marker, but people are now saying 5 or 6. i know that there probably isn't a standard rule or anything, but mine end up as very long blocky chunks and i'm never sure if that's correct when i look at the examination reports in comparison??
We were never really taught structure when it comes to a comparative, so i'm sort of feeling it out for myself, and am  just a bit unsure if it was any different to the usual strength/weakness two handed approach.

Also with the VCAT limitations for this comparative style, is this roughly what you meant:

" Secondly, VCAT hearings are far less formal than the courts, as they do not follow the strict rules of evidence and procedure. The absence of these court room formalities mean that parties are able to feel more at ease with the process, as the adversarial nature of the court room may cause parties to feel uncomfortable. However, the adversarial nature of the court room may benefit some parties who are more comfortable in having a judge decide the outcome of the case, rather than a more flexible method of dispute resolution. Ultimately though, it is clear that the informality of VCAT provides a clear strength, as it allows dispute resolution to remain accessible and non confrontational for all parties. "

do i only have to have one paragraph like this, which acknowledges VCAT's limitations, or should i have more???

thankyou very much for the help!! :)

meganrobyn

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1561 on: August 02, 2015, 11:39:50 pm »
+2
Put it this way: you have at least quarter of an hour to do an 8-marker, and you should leave as much as half an hour if possible to do the 10-marker. Also consider the fact that, when you mark someone's work, you kind of default roughly to one mark per good point - yes, it's global for some questions and that can be nudged up or down, but you have to start somewhere. Put those two together and you're really looking at minimum 8 separate little points for an 8-marker (although I say do more, especially since many points flow on, one from the other, without requiring a whole paragraph to themselves) and 10 for a 10-marker. But you want to do more because (in addition to what I just said) waffling on about the same point is boring, and what if the marker doesn't think some of them are strong (or you make an error with some)? Aim for two solid pages for an 8-marker and three for the 10-marker. Just bang through your points as quickly as possible, balancing specific detail with speed.

I like the way you wrote that sample para - it moves naturally across strengths and weaknesses. I would absolutely take out the "clearly" and "clear" statements, though: obviously they're *not* clear, otherwise there would be no room for different arguments and opinions. It feels a bit rude to the reader, denying them their own conclusion, and doesn't read well in Legal any more than in English. And I'd do more than just that on VCAT weaknesses: 'evaluate' is really to balance to pros and cons of something; consider both sides. Use as much of your prepared material as you can (within the scope of the question) - strengths and weaknesses.
[Update: full for 2018.] I give Legal lectures through CPAP, and am an author for the CPAP 'Legal Fundamentals' textbook and the Legal 3/4 Study Guide.
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thaaanyan

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1562 on: August 03, 2015, 06:30:53 am »
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Thank-you very much for the clarification!
With the 'clearly', i was under the impression that at the end of the paragraph i was supposed to reassert my interpretation of whether the strength outweighs the weakness; is this necessary in a body pragraph or should I maybe just do this in a conclusion??
Thanks, again! :)

meganrobyn

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1563 on: August 03, 2015, 11:03:23 am »
+1
Thank-you very much for the clarification!
With the 'clearly', i was under the impression that at the end of the paragraph i was supposed to reassert my interpretation of whether the strength outweighs the weakness; is this necessary in a body pragraph or should I maybe just do this in a conclusion??
Thanks, again! :)

I wouldn't bother repeating your opinion at the end of every single paragraph - especially if your wording all sounds consistently like you're arguing relevant points to it. Limit the repetition.

Removing the 'clearly' was actually more about removing that specific word. Words such as 'clearly', 'obviously', etc, just read really badly! They kind of read like "duh" - a bit arrogant or obnoxious, even if that's not the tone the writer wrote them with.
[Update: full for 2018.] I give Legal lectures through CPAP, and am an author for the CPAP 'Legal Fundamentals' textbook and the Legal 3/4 Study Guide.
Available for private tutoring in English and Legal Studies.
Experience in Legal 3/4 assessing; author of Legal textbook; degrees in Law and English; VCE teaching experience in Legal Studies and English. Legal Studies [50] English [50] way back when.
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thaaanyan

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1564 on: August 03, 2015, 06:25:17 pm »
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Hi (again)!
That's a good point about repetition, maybe should I only reinforce my main argument in the conclusion? Thank-you so much for helping with my confusion!!! So I asked the teacher + some friends about ways to go about evaluating and i think i understand the point you made about structure and also showing the weaknesses of the two bodies as well as their strengths.
i think the thing i didn't understand is that i was told you had to argue that either vtac or the courts were better definitively, but the more i read through your responses in a "evaluate two bodies" sort of question, i feel as though i should say that vtac is good in some ways (while still having weaknesses) and that courts have strengths in other ways (while still having weaknesses). is this more correct??
So i tried to incorporate this understanding in this structure:

Evaluate the way courts and VCAT operate to resolve disputes (8 marks).

Body paragraph 1:

Firstly, VCAT is a much cheaper avenue of dispute resolution.  In many cases parties are only required to pay a nominal amount for filing their claim, and in some lists such as the Human Rights List, lodging an application is free. Furthermore,legal representation is not necessary and parties are instead able to represent themselves - thus meaning parties do not have to pay the cost of engaging legal representation. However, VCAT has faced large changes in fees recently and as such is growing more expensive. A fee was introduced for each day of hearing a major proceeding in which a filing fee is payable, though with no hearing fee for the first day. As well as large fees for major cases, the increasing use of legal representation in VCAT results in increasing costs. This is in contrast to the courts, which are usually more expensive due to the high court fees, the costs associated with pre trial procedures as well as the need for engaging legal representation. This is clear in the Magistrates' court, which charges a filing fee of over $273.50 for claims between $1000 and $10 000. Despite this,while  engaging legal representation is costly, the use of representation in the courts ensures that parties are equally represented and are able to argue their case, which provides a level of fairness and justice to the court proceedings.

So, then it's not all one dimensional "yay vcat is flawless" but then also looks at the courts?? I'd appreciate feedback from anyone! Thank-you for helping me! :) :)

meganrobyn

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1565 on: August 03, 2015, 10:17:33 pm »
+1
Hi (again)!
That's a good point about repetition, maybe should I only reinforce my main argument in the conclusion? Thank-you so much for helping with my confusion!!! So I asked the teacher + some friends about ways to go about evaluating and i think i understand the point you made about structure and also showing the weaknesses of the two bodies as well as their strengths.
i think the thing i didn't understand is that i was told you had to argue that either vtac or the courts were better definitively, but the more i read through your responses in a "evaluate two bodies" sort of question, i feel as though i should say that vtac is good in some ways (while still having weaknesses) and that courts have strengths in other ways (while still having weaknesses). is this more correct??
So i tried to incorporate this understanding in this structure:

Evaluate the way courts and VCAT operate to resolve disputes (8 marks).

Body paragraph 1:

Firstly, VCAT is a much cheaper avenue of dispute resolution.  In many cases parties are only required to pay a nominal amount for filing their claim, and in some lists such as the Human Rights List, lodging an application is free. Furthermore,legal representation is not necessary and parties are instead able to represent themselves - thus meaning parties do not have to pay the cost of engaging legal representation. However, VCAT has faced large changes in fees recently and as such is growing more expensive. A fee was introduced for each day of hearing a major proceeding in which a filing fee is payable, though with no hearing fee for the first day. As well as large fees for major cases, the increasing use of legal representation in VCAT results in increasing costs. This is in contrast to the courts, which are usually more expensive due to the high court fees, the costs associated with pre trial procedures as well as the need for engaging legal representation. This is clear in the Magistrates' court, which charges a filing fee of over $273.50 for claims between $1000 and $10 000. Despite this,while  engaging legal representation is costly, the use of representation in the courts ensures that parties are equally represented and are able to argue their case, which provides a level of fairness and justice to the court proceedings.

So, then it's not all one dimensional "yay vcat is flawless" but then also looks at the courts?? I'd appreciate feedback from anyone! Thank-you for helping me! :) :)

Awesome paragraph. And I count around six smaller points comprising it, plus some specific evidence. Make sure you come to some kind of a final logical conclusion by the end and you're all set.
[Update: full for 2018.] I give Legal lectures through CPAP, and am an author for the CPAP 'Legal Fundamentals' textbook and the Legal 3/4 Study Guide.
Available for private tutoring in English and Legal Studies.
Experience in Legal 3/4 assessing; author of Legal textbook; degrees in Law and English; VCE teaching experience in Legal Studies and English. Legal Studies [50] English [50] way back when.
Good luck!

thaaanyan

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1566 on: August 04, 2015, 06:22:30 am »
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Awesome paragraph. And I count around six smaller points comprising it, plus some specific evidence. Make sure you come to some kind of a final logical conclusion by the end and you're all set.

Thank-you for the help!!! I really appreciate it!! :) :)
 So for an 8 marker, I'd have roughly 4 body paragraphs like this? Is that roughly right? Also, I'm a bit confused over what to put in an intro or conclusion?? My teacher told me for some questions they weren't mandatory?? would i need them in 6/8 markers?? i'm not a hundred percent sure what to put in them either...
one of my friends said that for an 'evaluate two bodies' type of question, she'd try and leave the intro a bit ambiguous as to her stance, so that way in her body she could say the strengths and weaknesses of both bodies while sitting on the fence, but then in her conclusion she could give a definitive stance over her opinion on which bodies strengths outweigh the weakness??? is this right??
trying with this method, it'd be something like:
INTRODUCTION:
"Despite their limitations, both the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) and the courts possess multiple strengths as dispute resolution bodies."

CONCLUSION:
"Ultimately then, both VCAT and the courts are dispute resolution bodies with multiple strengths; however VCAT further acts to provide services which are cost effective, timely, informal and accessible forms of dispute resolution, as it's strengths acts to outweigh it's limitations."

I'm a bit worried i'm doing it wrong??? Could anyone help?? :)
Thank you!!!

meganrobyn

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1567 on: August 04, 2015, 09:37:30 am »
+2
Thank-you for the help!!! I really appreciate it!! :) :)
 So for an 8 marker, I'd have roughly 4 body paragraphs like this? Is that roughly right? Also, I'm a bit confused over what to put in an intro or conclusion?? My teacher told me for some questions they weren't mandatory?? would i need them in 6/8 markers?? i'm not a hundred percent sure what to put in them either...
one of my friends said that for an 'evaluate two bodies' type of question, she'd try and leave the intro a bit ambiguous as to her stance, so that way in her body she could say the strengths and weaknesses of both bodies while sitting on the fence, but then in her conclusion she could give a definitive stance over her opinion on which bodies strengths outweigh the weakness??? is this right??
trying with this method, it'd be something like:
INTRODUCTION:
"Despite their limitations, both the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) and the courts possess multiple strengths as dispute resolution bodies."

CONCLUSION:
"Ultimately then, both VCAT and the courts are dispute resolution bodies with multiple strengths; however VCAT further acts to provide services which are cost effective, timely, informal and accessible forms of dispute resolution, as it's strengths acts to outweigh it's limitations."

I'm a bit worried i'm doing it wrong??? Could anyone help?? :)
Thank you!!!

I like that intro and conclusion - but some people will start with something more definitive, and that's cool, too. Writing isn't paint-by-numbers. And there's also no rule regarding the 'magic' number of paragraphs that will somehow guarantee you marks. You know you have around quarter of an hour for an 8-marker (aim for two pages), so just bang out as much of that as you can.

The for task words rule is: anything that has an 'opinion-based' task word needs an opinion. Evaluate, analyse, critically examine, to what extent, etc.
[Update: full for 2018.] I give Legal lectures through CPAP, and am an author for the CPAP 'Legal Fundamentals' textbook and the Legal 3/4 Study Guide.
Available for private tutoring in English and Legal Studies.
Experience in Legal 3/4 assessing; author of Legal textbook; degrees in Law and English; VCE teaching experience in Legal Studies and English. Legal Studies [50] English [50] way back when.
Good luck!

thaaanyan

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1568 on: August 04, 2015, 10:14:37 pm »
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I like that intro and conclusion - but some people will start with something more definitive, and that's cool, too. Writing isn't paint-by-numbers. And there's also no rule regarding the 'magic' number of paragraphs that will somehow guarantee you marks. You know you have around quarter of an hour for an 8-marker (aim for two pages), so just bang out as much of that as you can.

The for task words rule is: anything that has an 'opinion-based' task word needs an opinion. Evaluate, analyse, critically examine, to what extent, etc.

Thank - you so much for helping me! :)



Since I went through a lot of trouble with structure, I just wanted to clarify if this would change in any way for a "compare and evaluate VCAT and the courts question." So I wrote an intro, body paragraph and conclusion for an 8 marker, and I would appreciate anybody's feedback on  what to change/ fix with this piece??

"Compare and evaluate both VCAT and the courts."  (8 marks)

Both the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) and the courts provide services which use similar approaches in dispute resolution, though these bodies also possess multiple differences. Despite the limitations of these bodies, the courts and VCAT also have clear strengths; though VCAT further acts to provide dispute resolution which utilises forms of ADR, provide cost effectiveness, timely resolution, and accessible service.

Firstly, both VCAT and the courts engage methods of appropriate dispute resolution (ADR) such as mediation and conciliation. Both bodies have the power to refer parties to these methods before finally resolving a dispute. Both the courts and VCAT refer civil cases to mediation as an avenue for dispute resolution for the similar purposes of speeding up the resolution of cases  and reducing backlog of cases to be heard, as these methods of ADR thus work alongside the courts and VCAT in providing avenues for dispute resolution. However these bodies also have multiple differences, as where the courts are able to order a proceeding to mediation, with or without the consent of parties, VCAT does not often do this instead often choosing to encourage mediation as a method of settlement. Furthermore, where the courts refer cases to mediation, VCAT instead is involved and invested in implementing ADR strategies. This is seen in initiative such as the 'Mediation Centre' which provides mediation facilities and experties, as well as the Short Mediation and Hearing (SMAH) program, which allows parties to briefly explore mediation as a final option in the settling of the dispute immediately before the hearing.

Fundamentally then, while both these bodies possess multiple similarities and differences, VCAT's strengths ultimately act to outweigh it's limitations as a dispute resolution body.


Is this body structure of "similarities/differences" ok, and would i need to change it up and do the opposite "differences/similarities" in other body paragraphs, or is "similarities/differences" ok as it is for the whole question??????
ALSO would i need some sort of a definitive evaluative statement at the end of my body paragraph????, like "In thus choosing to involve itself directly in the mediation process, VCAT demonstrates strength as a dispute resolution body"
I'd really appreciate any ones feedback on the content/structure/massive barrage of questions I have thrown in!!
Thank youuuu!!! :) :)

iClinton

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1569 on: August 05, 2015, 03:36:07 pm »
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Would we need to know the effectiveness of the adversary system of trial for SACS/Exams?
It's not mentioned in the study design

thaaanyan

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1570 on: August 05, 2015, 06:45:50 pm »
+1
Would we need to know the effectiveness of the adversary system of trial for SACS/Exams?
It's not mentioned in the study design

I checked in the key skills section of the study design it says "critically evaluate the adversary system of trial" which is pretty much the 'effectiveness?' Hope this helps! :)

clarke54321

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1571 on: August 07, 2015, 06:10:52 pm »
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What is the novel aspect of the Donoghue V Stevenson case?
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meganrobyn

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1572 on: August 07, 2015, 06:38:36 pm »
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What is the novel aspect of the Donoghue V Stevenson case?

Lack of a recognised legal relationship (eg contract, employment, fraudulent misrepresentation) but still alleging responsibility.
[Update: full for 2018.] I give Legal lectures through CPAP, and am an author for the CPAP 'Legal Fundamentals' textbook and the Legal 3/4 Study Guide.
Available for private tutoring in English and Legal Studies.
Experience in Legal 3/4 assessing; author of Legal textbook; degrees in Law and English; VCE teaching experience in Legal Studies and English. Legal Studies [50] English [50] way back when.
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cameotodd

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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1573 on: August 07, 2015, 10:01:18 pm »
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Hey guys, in the exam, is it best to start from the questions that are high in marks such as the 10 marker and the 8 marker etc, or do it in the natural order from beginning to end?
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Re: VCE Legal Studies Question Thread
« Reply #1574 on: August 07, 2015, 10:18:00 pm »
+1
To each their own. I know some people who dedicatedly went to the 10 marker first because they wanted to know they had enough time. This strategy isn't for everyone, however. Personally, I just went through the papers I did from lowest marks to highest marks (with a little bit of variation, e.g. I did the 8 marker last for my actual exam). I like being able to build up my confidence and get my brain going for the subject, but for you, I suggest trying to experiment and then stick to one technique you prefer so you know you can use it for the exam.
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