Best Device for Engineering and Commerce?

[deStudent]

Hi, I'm wondering if I should get a Mac or Windows if I'm going to study engineering (civil) and finance in university, specifically at Monash University.

I'm deciding between a MacBook Air or one of the Lenovo thinkpads. I know that you can just use the uni's computers for engineering work which I plan to do but I think a lot of finance work is used either excel. The excel on Mac's is pretty bad in comparison to the excel on Windows so I don't want to handicap myself.

[extremeftw]

 I don't think it will matter much.

 I do economics, so I can only speak from the commerce perspective. Basically, any time you need to use a program like excel (or more complex statistical programs), you are doing the class in a computer lab anyway. So it doesn't really matter if you own a mac vs a windows computer since you are making use of Monash's hardware.

 I will say that most people I see around uni seem to have Apple computers; I myself just use a shitty lenovo thinkpad that is about 8 years old and it is completely fine.

[keltingmeith]

I'm deciding between a MacBook Air or one of the Lenovo thinkpads. I know that you can just use the uni's computers for engineering work which I plan to do but I think a lot of finance work is used either excel. The excel on Mac's is pretty bad in comparison to the excel on Windows so I don't want to handicap myself.

Probs not.

I did ETC3400, in which the lecturer had us use eviews, which she said she only did because most students will have experience of it from other commerce subjects. So, you might be using excel, you might be using eviews, you might use something completely different. Engineering (AFAIK) usually uses matlab for things - any other programs I'm not aware of, but probably also some excel? Other potential programs you could end using are R and python.

Having said that, I would still recommend Windows. We don't know what program you'll be using, and I find that in general, the types of programs you use for this kind of work is usually either made for Windows (fun fact: I can't do my work on a Mac computer unless I boot Windows in it), or optimised for it (see: eviews), so you're probably better off that way.

BUT, if you prefer a Mac, by all means go ahead - there's no real restriction, and there are computer labs for the commerce students as well with all of their required programs already loaded on them if it turns out one of your subjects uses a program you can't get on Mac. (granted, they're a bit harder to get access to. Not as many and they fill up quick)

I don't think it will matter much.

 I do economics, so I can only speak from the commerce perspective. Basically, any time you need to use a program like excel (or more complex statistical programs), you are doing the class in a computer lab anyway. So it doesn't really matter if you own a mac vs a windows computer since you are making use of Monash's hardware.

 I will say that most people I see around uni seem to have Apple computers; I myself just use a shitty lenovo thinkpad that is about 8 years old and it is completely fine.

Actually, for ETC3400, we had to use a computational package for our assignments. The lecturer didn't mind which we used, but most people opted for eviews (excel wasn't strong enough).

[jamonwindeyer]

If you want absolute, total, 100% peace of mind that you will be prepared, you can buy a Mac and then install a Windows Virtual Machine/Partition (as Euler hinted to above)! This is what I do; a lot of my Electrical subjects need programs that only run on Windows, and I agree that the Windows version of Excel is a little better than the Mac version. So I do those things in Windows. For my computing subjects, it's easier to do things in macOS! Although you probably wouldn't need to deal with those sorts of subjects in your degree of choice

That said, I don't know of anything that can't be done with a Windows OS, but there are definitely things that can't be done with macOS. Yes, certain things in macOS are easier, but Windows is still the dominant platform for a reason

(I personally prefer macOS and use it in my day to day, just as a disclaimer )

[wutlol]

Macs are a unix system, Windows is DOS. Scientific computing is done on unix systems, they are more stable. As you get to the later stages of your engineering or physics degree, if you're more interested in scientific engineering as opposed to industrial, you'll likely encounter computer simulations.

I'd personally recommend a macOS for this reason. Also install a Windows OS for the many industrial applications you'll need that are more straightforward on Windows.

Alternatively, if you're a windows user, virtual box into Linux.

[keltingmeith]

Scientific computing is done on unix systems.

No - they're really not. They're done on whatever system the program was written for.

[Orson]

Hey there. I think everyone's suggestions above are great! Personally, I'm using a Toshiba Portege 13.3" (Easy to take around, unlike a 15.6") which has 320 GB HDD, 4GB RAM, Clock speed of around 2.4GHz. I'm running Win7. Nothing special. I've completed both computing subjects this year (ENG1060 and ENG1003) and this has been more than enough. The heaviest program I've had to use was MATLAB which takes me a while to open up, but wasn't a problem. My friends who have Macs said that it was optimised for Macs well. I won't say the same about other niche software packages.

I'm also going to be doing Civil, and APPARENTLY we use excel for nearly everything. However, there are always the Engineering Computer Labs which are open 24/7 where you can access other software such as AutoDesk and SolidWorks (Not sure if we use this stuff for Civil though). For commerce, I think a computer suitable for engineering would be fine.

Also, keep in mind that Monash provide 5 concurrent intalls of MS Office per student, so you don't need to go out and buy it. We get 1 install of MATLAB.

If you have any other questions specific to Eng or Com at Monash, please ask!

[wutlol]

No - they're really not. They're done on whatever system the program was written for.

Yeah, but any large-scale computing simulation requires paraellelisation and the main parallelisation softwares are on OpenMP, OpenCL, or MPI. There's more, but they will generally target unix systems. A lot of those simulations run for months at a time and unix is a more stable platform. In mechanical engineering, and physics, I've never heard of someone running a simulation off a Windows system. I guess if you're not planning on mechanical engineering/physics. I know in chemistry department it's the same story.

Hmm, what packages have you come across that is built for Windows?

[deStudent]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

If you want absolute, total, 100% peace of mind that you will be prepared, you can buy a Mac and then install a Windows Virtual Machine/Partition (as Euler hinted to above)! This is what I do; a lot of my Electrical subjects need programs that only run on Windows, and I agree that the Windows version of Excel is a little better than the Mac version. So I do those things in Windows. For my computing subjects, it's easier to do things in macOS! Although you probably wouldn't need to deal with those sorts of subjects in your degree of choice

That said, I don't know of anything that can't be done with a Windows OS, but there are definitely things that can't be done with macOS. Yes, certain things in macOS are easier, but Windows is still the dominant platform for a reason

(I personally prefer macOS and use it in my day to day, just as a disclaimer )

Do you find the storage space suitable on your MacBook? It says that the highest it has is 256GB but from my research most people suggests that you get a device with 500+ GB storage space?

[jamonwindeyer]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Do you find the storage space suitable on your MacBook? It says that the highest it has is 256GB but from my research most people suggests that you get a device with 500+ GB storage space?

The 256GB storage would personally be okay for me. So, I have a second hand Macbook Air, 128gb, that I take to uni. I don't have much on there; my uni files are in the cloud and I have my Windows partition with a few basic programs, that's pretty much it. Then at home I have an iMac with more storage space for all my music, photos, etc etc. I've used about 300-350gb on that desktop, so 256gb would probably be a little low if you want to be completely safe. I take a lot of photos though, you might be different

All of that said, are you looking at the Macbook or Macbook Pro? Be wary of the Macbook for any real applications, it uses a mobile processor instead of a typical i5/i7 chip. I've not had any first hand experience, but I'd say the Macbook is a little underpowered if it's going to be used for an engineering degree. Opt for the Macbook Pro (if you can afford it), I'll be upgrading to a new one of them next year (probably)

[keltingmeith]

Yeah, but any large-scale computing simulation requires paraellelisation and the main parallelisation softwares are on OpenMP, OpenCL, or MPI. There's more, but they will generally target unix systems. A lot of those simulations run for months at a time and unix is a more stable platform. In mechanical engineering, and physics, I've never heard of someone running a simulation off a Windows system. I guess if you're not planning on mechanical engineering/physics. I know in chemistry department it's the same story.

Hmm, what packages have you come across that is built for Windows?

Okay - so if you're going for hardcore simulations, sure, then maybe unix is the way to go - I wouldn't know myself, I don't really do that kind of stuff, but can't really think of any simulation software I've heard of (just Gaussian for computational chemists and that the Monash astrophysics department runs linux, aside from classic stats program/packages on matlab, R, mathematica, etc.) that is written for just windows.

HOWEVER, you said scientific computing was mainly unix based. Maybe you define scientific computing to just be simulations, but I think you'll find that OP is looking for so much more than that. Personally, I define scientific computing to mean the computing packages accustomed with doing science. Crystal engineering is one field I know of that has NO unix-based programs (in fact, my supervisor said that before people actually wrote programs, you had to do everything yourself on DOS, so I know this isn't a new phenomena), with the exception of the synchrotron, but even then that's just data collection, not data processing.

[deStudent]

The 256GB storage would personally be okay for me. So, I have a second hand Macbook Air, 128gb, that I take to uni. I don't have much on there; my uni files are in the cloud and I have my Windows partition with a few basic programs, that's pretty much it. Then at home I have an iMac with more storage space for all my music, photos, etc etc. I've used about 300-350gb on that desktop, so 256gb would probably be a little low if you want to be completely safe. I take a lot of photos though, you might be different

All of that said, are you looking at the Macbook or Macbook Pro? Be wary of the Macbook for any real applications, it uses a mobile processor instead of a typical i5/i7 chip. I've not had any first hand experience, but I'd say the Macbook is a little underpowered if it's going to be used for an engineering degree. Opt for the Macbook Pro (if you can afford it), I'll be upgrading to a new one of them next year (probably)

Thanks.

Sorry, I was talking about the MacBook Air - it says it uses an i5/i7 processor. I'm not sure if the MacBook Pro offers a substantial improvement in terms of its processor/memory space/storage space though.

I might just go with a Windows OS, since they typically have more storage space. Hopefully I don't regret it.

[jamonwindeyer]

Thanks.

Sorry, I was talking about the MacBook Air - it says it uses an i5/i7 processor. I'm not sure if the MacBook Pro offers a substantial improvement in terms of its processor/memory space/storage space though.

I might just go with a Windows OS, since they typically have more storage space. Hopefully I don't regret it.

Ah yep no worries, the Macbook Air can be configured for 512GB storage! You just need to order it direct from Apple

In terms of cost per performance gain, given what you'll likely be up to with it, the Air is a way better choice imo the new Macbook Pros look like fantastic machines but the price is nuts.

Best of luck with it all!